View Full Version : Seaking of Rider Waite symbols (another one hehe)
Does anyone know the symbolism of the W on the Ace of Cups? Im studying the Ace of Cups over a multitude of decks for ideas for my FACT card andIve found it repeated in many decks. Is it something stupid, like meaning Waite (in which case I will not use it) or is it deeper than that? Also, could someone give me some non christian reasons for the cross and circle? I want to make sure I can discuss my symbolism in Christian andnon Christian terms (in Christian terms its obvious that the card depicts the Holy Spirit descending upon the communion wafer and communal cup)
Malachite
12-03-2002, 15:47
Could it be something to do with the Grail?....the Quest for the Perfect Love?...
just a thought....i hadn;t noticed the w actually...
couldb, like I said I have absolutely no clue lol
Briarfoote
12-03-2002, 16:55
A "W" stands for the ups and downs on life's paths. OK, I just made that up. I too had not noticed a "W". The overwhelmingly christian symbolism always threw me off on this card. Then a friend of mine gave some non-Christian themes for them.
Dove (White / purity) as symbol of peace and in some cases love.
Cup as Holy Grail, Holy Grail is retelling of Celtic Sacred Cauldron - fertility and the mysteries.
I forget some of the others... sorry.
Still seemed very heavily Christian to me.
Original Destiny
12-03-2002, 17:41
just a thought is it a Hebrew letter?
Is it a W or an upside down M?
The W character isn't part of the Hebrew alphabet, but it is a representation of a character in the earlier Phonecian alphabet where it was the pre-cursor to the Roman F, G, U and V (as I recall).
It was added to the Roman alphabet in the middle ages, usually as a representation of the Greek Omega....
Symbolically Omega can mean the end of a path, or the end of a pattern, or the fulfillment of a quest. Lots of possibilities for the symbol on the Ace of Cups!
However, to me the letter doesn't so much look like a W as it does like an upside down M.
M is a very powerful letter! In many cultures (including the Greeks and the Romans), the M-like character represents androgyny or the inclusion or blending of both genders. Combined with the other imagery of the Ace of Cups, this opens up some pretty interesting possibilities!
Ah... but why is it upside down? I have lots of theories about that! It all depends on what the question was and where the card shows up in a reading as far as I'm concerned.
And of course, once you figure out what all that means, then you'll suddenly notice that the cup runneth over into five streams.... what could that possibly signify???
Oh... and those water lillies! What kind of message do those send?
Yup... the Ace of Cups has probably the most complex imagery of any card in the Waite-Smith deck. Lots and lots there to work with!
Didn't you guys go to kindergarten when you were kids? I thought everyone knew that W is for ... WATER!
(sorry, couldn't resist!)
BB
Mermaid
LOL Mermaid! I think you're right!
Seriously, I have about six books I'm using for study right now, and none of them mention what the W means, although a few of them do call it the Grail.
One of the books says water lilies represent peaceful emotions and eternal life.
Thanks the water lily will be on the card, I already decided that :) Maybe Ill go pose it to my email tarot group and see if they have any amazing insight to share (they seem to have an opinon on EVERYTHING lol)
I thought that the equal-armed cross and circle signify peace, just like the dove and water lillies.
Kiama
Lady Morgana
13-03-2002, 21:10
could it be that the W means the element water which is actually the element the cups are based on. Well just a suggestion
Strange2
13-03-2002, 22:49
The W could be an upside down M, and/or vice versa. As others indicated, the W could stand for "Water". Interestingly, the Hebrew letter "Mem" means "Water"... more M / W interplay.
Mem is also associated with the 23rd path on the Tree of Life, the path of the Hanged Man. Again, more "upside down" symbolism.
The Ace of Cups is often depicted as the Holy Grail, the cup from which Jesus drank Wine at the Last Supper, and which caught his blood when he was sacrificed on the cross. Another "cross"-reference to the Hanged Man.
Very enlightening how these symbols flow into one another...
The dove was also sacred to Zeus, symbolized love to Aphrodite, and re-birth to Athena. I found a lot of pre-Christian dove symbolism out there, most of it positive.
I think strange2 just convinced me to stick it in there, now i have to decide if i want to add an angel as well or not,decisions decisions :) the dove will be there too, as well as other symbols, non traditonal ones, but I want it to be a surprise hehe, Im into heavy symbolism :)
In Alan Oken's Pocket Guide To The Tarot, he says that, "The letter on the cup is an upside-down 'M,' indicating that 'matter' is ready to receive the blessings from heaven."
He also writes that the dove placing the wafer into the cup translates to "the loving compassion of the Divine Heart enters into our emotional life, raising it up."
I suppose you could call this insight Christian? Hope this helps Liliana.
Yes that helps a lot, being the first meaning posted from a published book, not that I think a published person is any more valid than others hehe
lunar_rabbit
23-03-2002, 21:21
Pentacles = Earth
Swords = Fire
Wands = Air
Cups = Water
So, it makes sense to me that the W would mean water. Although, it doesn't look exactly like a W to me. Looks more like a symbol of some sort.
Maybe it is a rune. There is one that looks like a M
i believe it meens humanity.
Malachite
24-03-2002, 09:28
The runic symbol for humanity looks different...
The runic symbol that looks like that represents the female active principle...
It could be a contraction of the egyptian hieroglyphic for water...it represents the 'N' here...http://members.aol.com/egyptnew/hiero.html
water links to cups, but the shape is a little different, i agree...
paradoxx
14-05-2003, 16:54
W could mean water but lets go a little more estoric here.
w is the 23 letter of our modern english alphabet. Psi is the 23rd letter of the greek alphabet. Psi as in psychic energy and psychology. so the ace of cups coudl represent psychic energy or the need for psych therapy or anything doing with the mind and spirit.
there is no standard 23rd major arcania and thus the 23rd card of the tarot deck could be any of the minor aces. so this card coudl represent the continuation of major life events as represented by the majors.
23 is a powerful number that relates to all religions and non-religous ideas. just search for 23 in a search engine and you will get soem interesting websites. this card could represent synchronisity in everyday life.
M is the 13th letter of the alphabet. M as in Man, W as in Woman. depending on if the card is reversed or not it could represent a gender.
jsut a few thoughts.
Moonstitches
17-05-2003, 10:37
Hi, i found something on this site that might shed some light on this W: http://www.borndigital.com/tree/
Although it didn't talk specifically about the ace of cups, the website explained that the "W" found in the Heirophant card of the RWS deck is a rendering of "Vav", which i think is a Hebrew letter (don't really know for sure). "Vav" can mean "nail", "and", or more importantly in this case, "heart". And since Cups represent emotions, the "heart" definition would definitely work.
Hope that helps!