View Full Version : abt the magican
http://www.tarotpassages.com/old_moonstruck/oneill/1.htm
At the top of the visible leg, just below the bird, is the word “DIN.” It’s Hebrew (nun-yod-daleth) and means judgment. It's an alternative name for the Sephira Geburah (e.g., see Scholem: Major Trends p 263). The Magician is not a path to or from this Sephira in the Golden Dawn system, so its presence on the card is obscure.
Bird what bird, where??
TemperanceAngel
21-01-2004, 01:17
I see it, I see it, WOW, that's what I love about RWS, always someting new ;)
The bird is carved on the table above the word DIN, which is above the Magicians leg!
XTAX
Great to have you here mac22, already so interesting :)
Originally posted by TemperanceAngel
I see it, I see it, WOW, that's what I love about RWS, always someting new ;)
The bird is carved on the table above the word DIN, which is above the Magicians leg!
Thanks!
Great to have you here mac22, already so interesting :)
30 years I've been doing readings and I learn new things every day....:)
TemperanceAngel
21-01-2004, 02:07
So what else do you think is carved next to it?
On the far left, mountains or water? Something else?
In the middle of them both I have no idea :confused:
Gosh it's so subltle, I have just been reading about subtle perceptions and hidden depths and mystery, so this is all very fitting :) XTAX
Originally posted by mac22
[B]30 years I've been doing readings and I learn new things every day....:) [/IB]
I say the symbol for water.
TemperanceAngel
21-01-2004, 02:27
Originally posted by mac22
I say the symbol for water.
I am not convinced.....
Could be three mountains, sub-conscious, conscious and higher conscious or even the three goddesses, maiden, mother and crone....
XTAX
Originally posted by TemperanceAngel
I am not convinced.....
Could be three mountains, sub-conscious, conscious and higher conscious or even the three goddesses, maiden, mother and crone....
XTAX
Water is a symbol of both the unconscious & higher conscience...:)
TemperanceAngel
21-01-2004, 02:51
Originally posted by mac22
Water is a symbol of both the unconscious & higher conscience...:)
True, but I don't see the Magician being associated with the element Water, he is more to do with Wands, Fire, Consciousness and Manifestation.
So I am still not convinced and at this stage I will stick with the three mountains, a recurrent theme in the RWS Majors ;)
XTAX P.S. This is fun, isn't it!
Hi,
You know, I have noticed the bird, but not the word DIN. It means judgement eh? What strikes me is where it is. It supports the table that holds the tools. This implies to me the need for good judgement when weilding our powers and using these tools. Or that it is suppressed for now.
I cant make out what is immediately to the left of the bird, but the next one in looks to me like mountains with a river flowing through. Water carving it's way through earth. Remember this card has all the elements represented on the table. Also the bird looks like the dove on the ace of cups. So, question is why are these water signs carved in wood in this card. again the water carving it's way through earth.
Mimi
In the Radiant Rider you can't make out the word at all, the bird is fairly clear but the other symbols aren't. I'm off to check the Universal Waite to see if you can see them on there. You can just about see the word and symbols in my pocket Rider Waite.
TemperanceAngel
21-01-2004, 17:26
Originally posted by Mimers
I cant make out what is immediately to the left of the bird, but the next one in looks to me like mountains with a river flowing through. Water carving it's way through earth. Remember this card has all the elements represented on the table. Also the bird looks like the dove on the ace of cups. So, question is why are these water signs carved in wood in this card. again the water carving it's way through earth.
I keep looking and I don't see it as anything but mountains, some in the front and some behind. My feeling is the ones behind have the snow on them, there's your water element.
So do you think the middle one has something to do with Fire or Earth or both??
XTAX
Originally posted by Mimers
Hi,
You know, I have noticed the bird, but not the word DIN. It means judgement eh? What strikes me is where it is. It supports the table that holds the tools. This implies to me the need for good judgement when weilding our powers and using these tools. Or that it is suppressed for now.I
Mimi
DIN is an alternative name for the Sephira Geburah (e.g., see Scholem: Major Trends p 263). In Holy Kabballah (p 427) Waite associates Geburah with gold, in the sense of the end of an alchemical operation. So perhaps the Din is to suggest that the Magician is an Alchemist.
Transmutations is part of what this card is about as I see it. :)
TemperanceAngel
21-01-2004, 17:44
Originally posted by mac22
DIN is an alternative name for the Sephira Geburah (e.g., see Scholem: Major Trends p 263). In Holy Kabballah (p 427) Waite associates Geburah with gold, in the sense of the end of an alchemical operation. So perhaps the Din is to suggest that the Magician is an Alchemist.
Transmutations is part of what this card is about as I see it. :)
I know nothing about the Kabballah, thanks for the info :)
It would seem to me that the Magician is an alchemist, it is a theme of RWS, and the period of time they come from.
mac22, you may find the thread about Alchemy in History and Iconography of interest...
Now back to that middle image...the puzzle needs solved *mutter mutter* XTAX
Originally posted by TemperanceAngel
So I am still not convinced and at this stage I will stick with the three mountains, a recurrent theme in the RWS Majors ;)
Very true.
XTAX P.S. This is fun, isn't it! [/QUOTE]
I'd agree with that...:)
Originally posted by TemperanceAngel
I keep looking and I don't see it as anything but mountains, some in the front and some behind. My feeling is the ones behind have the snow on them, there's your water element.
So do you think the middle one has something to do with Fire or Earth or both??
XTAX
Hehe so we have a water element :)
TemperanceAngel
21-01-2004, 18:18
The reason I say mountains with snow is because of the reocurring theme of this image. We see these mountains in the Fool and the Hermit, and others which I cannot think of at this time.
We see the bird in the Ace of Cups, and where else?? I don't know....
So the middle image, by my powers of deduction, should be an image that is present in other cards....
SO thinking caps on everyone!
*TA dons her rather bright and woolly thinking cap. Bit hot for the Summer, maybe an idea will sweat out*
XTAX
Originally posted by TemperanceAngel
*TA dons her rather bright and woolly thinking cap. Bit hot for the Summer, maybe an idea will sweat out*
XTAX
How about the flow of manifestation? :P
TemperanceAngel
22-01-2004, 00:24
Originally posted by mac22
How about the flow of manifestation? :P
Can you explain a bit more, I am not sure I fully understand thanks :D XTAX
Originally posted by TemperanceAngel
Can you explain a bit more, I am not sure I fully understand thanks :D XTAX
In alchemy & magick things become manifest.... this is a process not an event... in other words the process of the unseen....:)
hi, i'm new. i just noticed that the Magician has a serpent around his waist. i know nothing about tarot but i'm studying the first 10 major arcana so i naturally came to this thread first about the magician. fyi
Originally posted by JadeII
hi, i'm new. i just noticed that the Magician has a serpent around his waist. i know nothing about tarot but i'm studying the first 10 major arcana so i naturally came to this thread first about the magician. fyi
The serpent has many meanings: ooborous the serpent eating it's tail- regeneration & immortality. It also may refer to masonry and how the Mason's apron fastens by hook & eye. There is a host of symbolism there..:D
Originally posted by mac22
[BAt the top of the visible leg, just below the bird, is the word “DIN.” [/B]
On the leg that is hidden, is written "NER". (Just kidding... I think.)
TemperanceAngel
16-02-2004, 07:22
Originally posted by Diana
On the leg that is hidden, is written "NER". (Just kidding... I think.)
Diana, did you mean NERdy costume? :laugh: XTAX
firemaiden
16-02-2004, 09:26
Originally posted by Diana
On the leg that is hidden, is written "NER". (Just kidding... I think.)
...one more peep out of you young lady, and....you'll be dinner.
Okay, on the Universal Waite, I see carved into the table, either the rising dove, (symbol of Christ again?) similar to the one on the Ace of Cups? -- or else it is a fleur-de-lys, and to the left of it, two more cryptograms -one looks like arabic script and to the left of that is the face of a frog with glasses...
I don't see "din" though.
Edited to say: make that a *squished* frog with glasses.
firemaiden
16-02-2004, 10:02
(Paid informants have slipped word to me that the squished frog with glasses is actually a pissed-off crab. The three cryptograms form a rebus clue, which can be deciphered but not repeated.)
Originally posted by firemaiden
...one more peep out of you young lady, and....you'll be dinner.
Okay, on the Universal Waite, I see carved into the table, either the rising dove, (symbol of Christ again?) similar to the one on the Ace of Cups? -- or else it is a fleur-de-lys, and to the left of it, two more cryptograms -one looks like arabic script and to the left of that is the face of a frog with glasses...
I don't see "din" though.
Edited to say: make that a *squished* frog with glasses.
It's clear in RWS. The DIN is below the bird on the same leg.
ScarabFlight
17-02-2004, 01:08
My squished frog with glasses looks more like a gator with a sphere of some sort, but that may be because I'm from Florida. lol
Originally posted by ScarabFlight
My squished frog with glasses looks more like a gator with a sphere of some sort, but that may be because I'm from Florida. lol
hmm, gator, crocodile, that has Egyptian connotations :laugh: TA is right ..this is fun. :)
If this conversation is for real??...I just pulled out my husband's super magnifiers that he used before he became blind (for real) or is that cheating (not becoming blind...my using a magnifier on the card....) without the magnifier, it looks clearly like DIN. With magnification, the top of the "D" is a part of the the black design on the table...and the supposed N has a center part that looks like another symbol....
...also frog with glasses looks like a crocodile facing right, but the left symbol looks like water to me...If he is using the magical wand in his hand as a ligtening rod...and grounding to earth with the pointed finger toward the earth garden...it could be that he is telling us that not only do we have the tools (on table, four minor suits) but we also have the energy to direct toward our "earthly goals...Also, if we see these first two trump cards as the masculine and feminine but within each are both elements then the water fits on the card ...the four suits are all four elements, why not have smaller symbols of the elements....I'd better top now, since the crocodile doesn't fit at all....
fire (personal lightening rod)
water (on table)
air (dove?)
earth (garden?)
Don't know what this does to DIN and the frog with glasses but this is the most fun I have had all week...today was the High Priestess card for my study and I had two doctor appointments, taxes with accountant, numerous errands...so much for HP and meditation and going within...
Wow!!
I see the bird and the word DIN and I agree with the mountains but I'm not sure of the middle image. To me it looks like aboat with sail moving out of clouds.
By the way I'm looking at this with a pair of magnifying glasses. They're called Optivision Magnifiers and their used for very intricate wiring etc. My mother gave them to me because I do really fine cross stitch work. These magnifiers give the cards an amazing depth preception. It is almost a 3 D effect. The red on the magicians robe and red flowers stand out from the card.
By the way on the right hand table edge its not solid black, there is another image there. Still trying to work that out.
Aha!!!
Found the boat. Same boat as on the 2 of Pentacles right hand side. Billowing sail. Again water or air, the sail filled or the clouds?
Hi Dexter....I agree with you...I looked again on the corner Right around the side from the dove and the possible DIN? There is a small image when blown up (made up of red dots) that looks like it could be a boat...is that the image you mean? The DIN looks more like DIN until you magnify it...then it's composite breaks up..this is a fun thread....looking at things in greater detail...boat with sails could fit idea of 4 elements....air? air/water?
TemperanceAngel
21-02-2004, 01:01
OMG this is such a great thread! I was thinking about The Magician being the seed and perhaps those tiny images are symbolic or represent the seed.....
XTAX
TemperanceAngel
21-02-2004, 01:04
Originally posted by mac22
DIN is an alternative name for the Sephira Geburah (e.g., see Scholem: Major Trends p 263). In Holy Kabballah (p 427) Waite associates Geburah with gold, in the sense of the end of an alchemical operation. So perhaps the Din is to suggest that the Magician is an Alchemist.
Transmutations is part of what this card is about as I see it. :)
Just in case newcomers haven't read the whole thread, here is the DIN connection ;) XTAX
Seed? Hm...fits in with elements and "tool" for growth? TA, does it look like the whole thing is something....? Could it be a boat?
Think the DIN is that DIN...I like to think of the alchemy connection. Since Magician is a "masculine" card...does anyone know how sulphur would connect (connected with Sun (Father)
whereas SALT (Moon/Mother) and Son (Stars/Mercury)? Maybe a quick lesson on alchemy ? thanks
Moonbow*
21-02-2004, 09:33
I have a confession (hmmm.... reminds me of a thread I once knew!). Until today I have never looked at a RWS deck in the flesh.... I have had the Universal Waite since christmas and thought it was about time I looked at it.
This is a great thread, I can see the table leg, bird, just about make out DIN (but not Diana's DIN.... NER) and I think the symbol next to the bird could be flames!!! Huh? eh? What do you think?
Could it be the bird representing air, the mountains and river representing earth and water and then....flames....
What's great about all the interpretations is that the card offers so many options, albeit tiny ones....I think the dove is clearly a dove, the DIN is a DIN...the mountains? could be water, could be mountains....I like the idea of the mountain that the Fool (if one looks at this as the beginning of the Q's journey) as the mountain the Q will have to climb..the mountain of learning, obstacles, searching, action, meditation...before he reaches the developed World card...if the other one IS a boat, then we have the water. But still can't figure out the one that looks like "frog with glasses" (heh-heh, read the whole thread to have fun) or the crocodile...I have this feeling it's like that picture of the woman where you have to look closely at the black and white portions to tease out the two different pictures...someone will get it.....terri
TemperanceAngel
21-02-2004, 19:57
Originally posted by tmgrl2
Since Magician is a "masculine" card...does anyone know how sulphur would connect (connected with Sun (Father)
whereas SALT (Moon/Mother) and Son (Stars/Mercury)? Maybe a quick lesson on alchemy ? thanks
Now, the Magician being Masculine is a debateable topic and one not really for this thread. But there is a thread in Using Tarot Cards about the Masculine and Feminine Cards ;) XTAX
Originally posted by Dexter
Aha!!!
Found the boat. Same boat as on the 2 of Pentacles right hand side. Billowing sail. Again water or air, the sail filled or the clouds?
Interesting point...thanks...:)
Just went to the masculine feminine thread....good !! will have to wait till tomorrow to read whole thread and digest...getting late here, but thanks TA.
Originally posted by TemperanceAngel
OMG this is such a great thread! I was thinking about The Magician being the seed and perhaps those tiny images are symbolic or represent the seed.....
XTAX
Hehe well he's [the magician] certainly is generative. :laugh:
Originally posted by Moonbow*
I have a confession (hmmm.... reminds me of a thread I once knew!). Until today I have never looked at a RWS deck in the flesh.... I have had the Universal Waite since christmas and thought it was about time I looked at it.
This is a great thread, I can see the table leg, bird, just about make out DIN (but not Diana's DIN.... NER) and I think the symbol next to the bird could be flames!!! Huh? eh? What do you think?
Could it be the bird representing air, the mountains and river representing earth and water and then....flames....
I knew somebody else would find the 4 elements :D
SeaPrism
23-03-2004, 18:45
the middle symbol looks to me to be a fallen chess piece (horse shaped head resting to the left), or a chalice over on it's side to the left with fluid coming out to the left...or could it be a hook or a key?
I've got in front of me a Universal Waite, a Radiant Rider Waite and the Pictorial Key complete with pictures...although DIN isn't clear in either the Universal or RRWS, the symbols are clearer in RRWS, and then compared to the pictures in the Pictorial Key...I believe we have:
waves for water,
flames for fire, (they look like squared off flames in RRWS, but none of the symbols appear as clearly in the Universal...)
Or perhaps this is a crown? I'll have to check my regular RWS when I get home to see if it's flamier or crownier there... :)
birdie for air...
As for Earth, I'm surprised that it's assymetrical in that the garden will have to do...of course the elements are more obviously represented by the minor suits all laying on the table.
In the Complete Idiot's Guide, they say the Magician is Aries, fire...he (or she?) has always seemed more Aquarius (air) to me, intellectual, more book smart, high IQ, resourceful, although Aries/fire could be all these things, too, but he seems to lack the aggression or movement of fire...like the Knight of Swords seems all fire to me, and yet he's air? Strange to me...but I digress.
:D
HA! OK, looking closer to the RRWS, it looks like two rows of mountains with a third, less wavy line, so maybe we've got mountains for earth and a lake for water? Two symbols in one?