View Full Version : Hand of The Devil!
Has anyone else noticed the glyph for Saturn (ruler of Capricorn)in the upraised hand of the Devil?
Only just spotted it today!
TemperanceAngel
24-02-2004, 18:03
According to the Golden Dawn, The Devil and Capricorn are great friends....
Will see if I can post a list on here, wait until I find it....
XTAX
Thanks Temperance that would be great.
Hey Glo,
I had never noticed that before. Interesting.
See... I usually associate the Devil with (amongst other things) a connection to the Earth... to something that we know is bad for us: whether that be through addiction, too much hedonism and thus neglecting of various other emotional or spiritual values. Capricorn as an Earth sign and its appearance on the Devil's hand is thus very useful in understanding this.
Capricorn, is actually capricornus, which literally stands for 'horned goat'.
According to this web-site:-
http://www.stariq.com/Main/Articles/P0001903.htm
'Capricorn is often depicted as the "sea goat" from the myth of Pan, the horned woodland god of goats and shepherds. The bearded and "horny" Pan was one of the satyrs, half-human and half-beast, known for their voracious sexual appetites (origin of the word "satyriasis"). According to one version of the myth, Pan, fleeing from the beast Typhon, jumped into a river just as he was transforming himself into a fish. The lower half of his body became fishlike, but his upper body above the water remained in the form of a goat.
Modeled after the myth of Pan, the devil in medieval times was depicted with the horns and hooves of a goat. Our word "panic" comes from the reaction of Pan's nursemaid when she beheld his horned skull and ugly bearded face as he emerged from the womb. She ran away in a fright—the first "panic" in recorded history.'
Interestingly, that same web-site points out Capricorn's relation to the Winter Solstice. Apparently, the day of the Winter Solstice is one of the darkest in the whole year. Perhaps this can also be drawn upon in our understanding of the Devil card, perhaps reflecting 'dark-times'.
C
Hi Centaur....thanks for link....very interesting site.
G.
WalesWoman
28-02-2004, 12:49
I believe the glyph is the astrological sign for Saturn.
OakDragon
04-04-2004, 01:14
Interesting also, that he seems to be saying "Live long and prosper"! He's holding his hand in the traditional Vulcan greeting (from the American sci-fi TV show, Star Trek).
:laugh:
actually, it looks very similar to what is known as the "abhaya mudra" in Buddhist and Hindu art and architechture.
Here are some links with pictures of the hand position:
http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/mudra-japan.shtml
http://www.buddhanet.net/mudras.htm
the hand position is known as the "gesture of fearlessness," and it is the way teachers tell their students not to fear, but to have courage through mindfullness and compassion.
perhaps the Devil is telling us not to fear his challenges, but to confront them head on?
TheoMo
That take all the bad messages out of the card.
Thanks!
yes, it does make the message of the card more palatable. I am still curious as to my interpretation - I am unaware of other Hindu/Buddhist symbols in the RW deck, so if the devil's hand is really there as a symbol of fearlessness, it would be interesting why the designers of the card chose to use an Eastern symbol for this card but for no others.
Then again, perhaps the abhaya mudra is a more universal symbol of peace and fearlessness....who knows.
Dark Inquisitor
06-04-2004, 02:01
Once again I will quote from The Sexual Key to the Tarot , by Theodore Laurence, 1971. Which is full of filth, and you should not read it :
" The horned goat, or Devil , represents the baser side of human nature. He symbolizes raw sexual craving, lust , inordinate desires , sexual perversion, evil thoughts, desires , and deeds."
**musical interlude: <insert AC/DC Dirty Deeds Done Cheap>
"The open right hand deceivingly suggests that sex is its own justification and needs no other , and that there is naught but sex as a basis for living. It implies there is no higher calling , no elevated human nature , no freedom from the bonds of lust and depravity."
So I suppose the goat glyph is fitting.
Tarotphelia
Originally posted by Tarotphelia
Once again I will quote from The Sexual Key to the Tarot , by Theodore Laurence, 1971. Which is full of filth, and you should not read it :Tarotphelia
I didn't....no really I didn't. :confused: I wouldn't understand anyway, I've led a sheltered life!!
Thanks to you and TheoMo for all the great info....wonderful stuff.
06-04-2004 02:01
10-04-2004 12:17
These are the times on the last two posts. Now, I realize that this is a forum for, amongst other things, talking about fortelling the future, but this is just spooky. According to my calander it is 04- 16-2004, so are the two of you posting from the future?
As to the actual topic, I don't believe that the devil always means something really bad (as many querents fear when they see it turn up); often it is a warning to be careful about indulging excessively.
N
Dark Inquisitor
16-04-2004, 22:41
Originally posted by _N_
06-04-2004 02:01
10-04-2004 12:17
These are the times on the last two posts. Now, I realize that this is a forum for, amongst other things, talking about fortelling the future, but this is just spooky. According to my calander it is 04- 16-2004, so are the two of you posting from the future?
As to the actual topic, I don't believe that the devil always means something really bad (as many querents fear when they see it turn up); often it is a warning to be careful about indulging excessively.
N
Darn- don't I wish I was posting from the future? But no. In other countries like the one this forum originates from , the day comes first, then the month and year.
Well, duh, who feels stupid now - wait, I'll tell you - it's N :D
N
Dark Inquisitor
17-04-2004, 15:25
I don't think you should feel the least bit stupid , N. It shows you have great imagination and look at things in fresh ways.
Love your name !
^T^.
Thanks for the pat on the head and warm cup of milk :D
As for the name, well, sometimes, less is more ;)
N
Imagemaker
21-04-2004, 17:58
According to my calander it is 04- 16-2004, so are the two of you posting from the future?
I always have to rethink the dates every time I come on AT--you're not alone!
Me, three...or else there is a 21st and 26th months...and everyone is posting on the 4th of them...but it does give me paws.
Wow, it just makes more sense to put the date before the month. Why don't we do that in the states? :)
Lemniscus
20-12-2004, 13:36
The sigil for Saturn is apparently also used in Kabbalism for the angel Cassiel. Cassiel is one of the "Rulers of Saturday" (Saturn's Day). He is the angel of solitudes and tears who "shews forth the unity of the eternal kingdom". Cassiel is also the ruling prince of the seventh heaven. He is one of the Sarim (princes) of the order of powers. Sometimes, he appears as the angel of temperance. This is fitting, considering The Devil's position in the Trumps.
In his "Pictorial Key to the Tarot", Waite says that the sign for Mercury is "at the pit of the stomach", although I can find no such symbol.
The topic of the Devil's palm lines was also discussed here (http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=25287) in the past. :)
Lemniscus
20-12-2004, 15:26
That's a very interesting approach. This is one of the things I love about Tarot. It can encompass just about every other occult or esoteric teaching.
Thanks for your post!
In his "Pictorial Key to the Tarot", Waite says that the sign for Mercury is "at the pit of the stomach", although I can find no such symbol.
You can see it in Levi's famous drawing of Baphomet;
http://www.poincare.de/library/prolog_e_bahomet_01.htm
Waite writes;
"Since 1856 the influence of Éliphas Lévi and his doctrine of occultism has changed the face of this card, and it now appears as a pseudo-Baphometic figure with the head of a goat and a great torch between the horns; it is seated instead of erect, and in place of the generative organs there is the Hermetic caduceus."
Vincent
Lemniscus
21-12-2004, 09:40
Thanks for that link, Vincent. I always enjoy looking at source material for the RWS cards.
The glyph on the palm of the Devil’s right hand is one of most interesting and cleverly-designed I’ve seen.
On initial inspection it seems to be a simple Saturn symbol (which it is), but much more as well.
Three things to initially consider are the cross (which is clearly visible), the heart line (running straight across the palm to form the horizontal bar of the cross), and the life line (formed by an arc running from the web of the thumb to the wrist).
The cross could simply represent the material plane, which it does in many cases, but in this case, having an association with the heart line, it makes sense to view it in a spiritual way. On close inspection, “vines” are seen growing out of the life line and wrapping around the heart line. I interpret this as, “the cares and excesses of this life choking off the spirit, simply put, spiritual death.” As an aside, the torch was used in Mithraic rituals as a symbol of life or death. Held up it symbolized spiritual life, held down it meant spiritual death.
It’s also possible to see the Hebrew letter, Ayin in this symbol. It’s upper part is formed by the two dark bumps on the far right side of the heart line, being joined to the life line by two short, thin lines, the life line itself forming the tail . Traditionally, Ayin corresponds to the Devil card, astrologically to Capricorn, and darker colors like black, gray, or blue-black.
The Saturn symbol is formed by joining the cross to the life line by a short curved line, which is actually part of one of the vines.
The Devil’s overall message seems to be, “live long and prosper” (the hand gesture), but his brand of living seems to be one of debauchery in this life, leading to physical ailments and spiritual death.
A lot of the details aren’t visible in some versions, or in pictures. The deck I have is an early US Games unlamented version, and in that one anyway, they are crystal clear.
fools_fool
I just read the link Alissa posted, and I will have to admit I am mistaken on one point. What I thought was the heart line is probably the head line, but this wouldn’t change the meaning radically. There doesn’t appear to be a heart line. There are, however, vines clearly extending from the life line and wrapping around the line above it. Also, the vertical bar on the cross was probably influenced by palmistry as well (ty Alissa and kwaw). Whatever the lines are, it seems clear the design was influenced by palmistry and show some sophistication. The overall message still seems to me to be mental bondage and spiritual death.
fools_fool
Hi fools fool,
I seem to remember, the idea of Pixie Smith having some knowledge of palmistry has been speculated upon by others also. Her hand shapes in her illustrations all look about the same to me, but the Devil card is certainly one example that would hint she knew a bit on the matter.
Palmistry's elementary techniques haven't changed very much since the time of Cheiro, and he was a English contemporary of, or even slightly predates, Smith.
And of course, the Vulcan symbolism would have been unintentional on Pixie's part. ;)
Fudugazi
30-08-2005, 05:48
The Devil’s overall message seems to be, “live long and prosper” (the hand gesture), but his brand of living seems to be one of debauchery in this life, leading to physical ailments and spiritual death.I have to disagree with that. It is more complicated. The sign he is doing with his fingers on that upheld hand is a blessing sign that was used by the High Priests in the Temple in Jerusalem. That could of course mean that Waite was just being anti-semitic...
...but I would rather see it as a warning to look a little more closely at this Devil. He is horrendous, ugly, frightening, our worst nightmare, right?
But he is also the means of liberation from our taboos, our sexual hang-ups, our fear of the material world. And he gives us a profoundly spiritual blessing. To me he seems to be saying - the material is also spiritual - if you know how to live it well. He is our challenge and our teacher. And he'll not make it easy for usü
I admit, I have not yet got to the bottom of the Devil. He is possibly - probably - the most complex card in the whole tarot, World included. Too easily dismissed as "your addictions, obsessions" or "spirit choked off by matter" (of course he is that too, in some instances). I have not yet read anyone whose "Devil" explanation has completely hit the right note for me -not even Rachel Pollack or Alejandro Jodorowski (the latter discussing of the Marseille Devil, but his exploration is relevant)- both of whom I respect more than any other tarotists . They are closest to the truth, however, because they reject the dichotomy matter/spirit, and make the point that matter and spirit are one - and the Devil might be one clue to that. Together, they might be getting somewhere :D.
As for me, I continue my exploration. This thread is exciting! And fools_fool, despite your erroneous conclusion, I find your post interesting and challenging. Ayin and Capricorn together - the goat and the eye (check out the Haindl Devil, btw!). But ayin is wisdom, too, and divine providence. As is well known, providence comes to us sometimes in ugly, unlikely packages, and through the form of challenges. The challenge of the Devil appears to be: "can you live in the material world and not start coveting ("looking at") more than your fair share, but see the spirit in matter? Can you live a materially spiritual life?" Ayin is also fountain - a place where we go for sustenance. I am reminded of the fountain of knowledge: and that is what an encounter with the Devil can give us - more knowledge. Or the fountain of youth: and didn't Faust make a pact with the Devil so he could have both knowledge and youth? His was a wholly acquisitive pact - knowledge AND youth together - and that is why he lost his soul! A pact which has forgotten that the spiritual lives entwined in the material. That was Faust's great mistake - not that he encountered the Devil. He was tested - and failed.
That hand held up, Capricorn, Ayin: it is a test.
Are but what else is there, what else?!
Letter 15 is Samekh
Samekh is Sagittarius
Compare XV The Devil with VII The Chariot
and you have the South & North Lunar Nodes
exalted in Sagittarius and Gemini respectively
which the Golden Dawn astrologers did not
bother to think of when they changed all 22
of the card's attributions, just to get their
Mercury Magician out of Aleph and into
Beth ~ a planet... it's almost funny
A Capricorn Devil ruled by Saturn with
The World as Saturn = nasty stuff