View Full Version : The falcon in the Nine of Pentacles
Phoenyx*
14-03-2004, 16:24
I know this card has been beaten into the ground, but I just can't find the thread to ressurect it. This card came up in a reading I had, and when I started describing it, I realised...The woman has a glove on one hand, and none on the other, and its a LONG glove...why would she wear a glove on the same hand as a bird perches...unless she needs to protect that hand...it's a hawk, or a falcon!
Maybe the garden has nothing to do with the card at all, but the falcon does, and the way she looks at it, it seems as if she's looking at it very longingly, as if she envies the freedom it has.
Any ideas?
Imagemaker
14-03-2004, 16:38
Yes, and the falcon is hooded, waiting for her to release him. Her control of this trained bird says something about her power in that garden of abundance.
HudsonGray
14-03-2004, 19:41
The glove is necessary even with a raptor as tiny as a kestral. Their nails are made to puncture animals, so sitting on a hand means you either do it without a glove & get sliced open, or use a long glove (for when the bird shifts up onto the wrist or higher as it fidgits) and save your skin. It's mandatory for every falconer.
The fact it's hooded on the card means that she's not ready to release it after prey, so it can mean that she's just enjoying being with the bird, likes the upscale intent of carrying the bird (nobles & rich people were the few who could own a falcon legally in the Middle Ages) or is going hunting later. The hood keeps it quiet.
cartarum
16-03-2004, 01:42
its true, the glove in her hand just enhances the fact that she is safely controlling her bird, that symbol of something that is very free and lively. i always said that i dont trust birds as they are volatile random things. i think that this kind of thing imitates the circumstances that we endure, avolatile thing indeed.
Phoenyx*
16-03-2004, 06:12
Originally posted by HudsonGray
The glove is necessary even with a raptor as tiny as a kestral. Their nails are made to puncture animals, so sitting on a hand means you either do it without a glove & get sliced open, or use a long glove (for when the bird shifts up onto the wrist or higher as it fidgits) and save your skin. It's mandatory for every falconer.
The fact it's hooded on the card means that she's not ready to release it after prey, so it can mean that she's just enjoying being with the bird, likes the upscale intent of carrying the bird (nobles & rich people were the few who could own a falcon legally in the Middle Ages) or is going hunting later. The hood keeps it quiet.
Yeah, the glove to me was the factor that changed my opinion to some pet bird to a hawk or falcon. :)
WalesWoman
16-03-2004, 12:12
I read Rachel Pollack's "Seventy Eight Degrees of Wisdom" about the 9 Pentacles representing creative discipline and thought that was a good theory, but she said nothing about the glove. I think now I understand what the gaunlet on her arm and the hooded falcon mean now. It takes a lot of disciplined training between the person and the bird, along with trust and love for them to be able to work together. I can also see why some might think of her as being kept, like a pet. But falcons/hawks are not pets, they were basically a weapon for hunting and only priviledged people could do so, the bird a person hunted with and was allowed to own depended on their rank. I'm still figuring out that...could be a red herring.
But it would be using discipline and training to get your goal, the falcon/hawk is hooded because the hunt is over, the goals have been reached successfully, perhaps sometimes the means to gain goals are a bit predatory and need to have some sort of protection from them?
Tarotmyst
17-03-2004, 03:20
Why are birds hooded? Is it like covering up pet birds - keeps them quieter?
I also found this on a site
All sorts of people had hawks. They were part of everyday life. They were mainly used to hunt for food, but also for other pleasures. Lords and ladies and even church dignitaries participated in falconry as an outdoor pastime. Large groups would assemble and wagering took place to see whoes falcon could bring down the first prey. Interest in the birds was so great that nobles often attended Mass with hooded falcons on their wrists. The birds were very well cared for.
I guess it is to help show her status and how she cares for everything she has around her?
The woman with the falcon in the 9Pents reminds me of royalty...her robes...with the pentacles not beneath her, but not a primary concern in her life...she looks creative, artistic, in tune with nature...the presence of the falcon, the bird of prey--hooded speaks to me of control and self-discipline...not just woman of leisure...it's the counterpoint to what I think of as the usual falconner...a male or woodsman-type...for me the message is don't let her wealth and status lead me to believe for one minute she is just a lady of leisure...money (pentacles) are not uppermost in her life, but she proudly bears the bird as a sign that she can control the shadow or dark side of life....
Maybe the glove & the hood is telling us what is hidden.
What if she has all that she needs but she's hiding the fact that she wants more! It's not enough. Even if she is humble, she could turn to be greedy.
Something is hidden, where she got all these comforts of life. Did she work for all of this or was it easy for her. Was it handed to her on a silver platter? Is this why she wants more?
Just ideas.
Originally posted by ros
Mabee the glove & the hood is telling us what is hidden.
What if she has all that she needs but she's hiding the fact that she wants more! It's not enough. Even if she is humble, she could turn to be greedy.
Something is hidden, mabee where she got all these comforts of life. Did she work for all of this or was it easy for her. Was it handed to her on a silver platter? Is this why she wants more?
Just ideas.
I like your idea as a reversal of the cardl!
Phoenyx*
19-03-2004, 20:27
Maybe she wants something that she earns, and is not given. People do not always appreicate things when they are handed them on a silver platter, instead, hard work makes us appreciate them more.
Mabee the falcon (representing her thoughts) is keeping her arm covered & busy so all her comforts of money won't go to her head. The falcon is giving her something else to think about.
Also her arm is up near her head so mabee it's protecting & balancing her thoughts of being greedy.
Both her hat & the hood is red! Lot's of energy or love or hate going on in their minds.
Action in the mind, of the comforts of $$$$
p.s.
Did you notice the castle in the background?
Look at the top, red again.
Originally posted by ros
Mabee the falcon (representing her thoughts) is keeping her arm covered & busy so all her comforts of money won't go to her head. The falcon is giving her something else to think about.
Also her arm is up near her head so mabee it's protecting & balancing her thoughts of being greedy.
Both her hat & the hood is red! Lot's of energy or love or hate going on in their minds.
Action in the mind, of the comforts of $$$$
Hi ros....On my way to a new shop that carrier items related to the psychic...I kept thinking about these last two posts of yours. I like the red ideas...I did see the red on the hood and on her head and didn't notice it on the castle...it is also on her color and the flowers on the dress are red too. I, also, think of passion/energy with red...fire...there is a lot of yellow on the card and of course green...in the garden...As a whole...somehow, the yellow represents intellectul, learning...the red passion/intensity, heightened emotional energy,,,green: growth, healing, money$$$
I just noticed the red on the bushes ...red grapes?
See what you started...this was floating around in my mind and until you brought it up, I never noticed all the red througout the card...now, I somehow, see the three colors as creating balance
intellectual/spiritual...energy/passion/creativity...$$$ healing, growth...she seems almost like a member of a king's court at her leisure in the garden...with the falcon ...a hobby? it was a hobby of the royalty...and maybe showing that as a female figure she embodies both male/female characteristics...(as I guess each card can, when looked at as a whole....)
terri
just a thought here...
Perhaps it's not the Falcon, or the garden or even the woman that should be addressed.
Instead, how about examining the relationship between the woman and the falcon…
Thanks, Umbrae...I knew if you were out there, we could get another direction...thank you.....will think about it...
The falcon, a bird of prey, is "dependent" on this woman...she has trained the falcon, owns it/s(he)...and releases it to hunt for its food...but she is the one in control....of the bird of prey...
Is the hood so that the falcon does not become frightened? Can't remember....if I look at 9Pents RW as about the relationship between falcon and woman...then the other meanings fall aside...Hmmm......or would her role as one who has ..e.g. money, status, intellect, leisure still come into play here...now it gives me a somewhat darker feeling that I hadn't seen in this card before...perhaps about people of "wealth" or "status" being better than or "in control" of creatures (animal or human animal) that are not "equal" to them....I never liked the idea of birds of prey in captivity anyhow. It always bothered me...any additional thoughts? This thread certainly has opened up so much more to look at in the 9P....
terri
o.k.
She is not close to home. She has to enjoy her life independently. Does this have something to do with the independece that comes with a certain part of life.
The "empy nest" syndrome!!!!!
Enjoying the new life of self after you are on your own. After a split up or children moving out of the house.
What will I do with all this free time.
Being happy with the riches of one's life & not having to be so responsible for anyone.
The falcon is showing her self-sufficiency.
How's this?
Originally posted by ros
o.k.
She is not close to home. She has to enjoy her life independently. Does this have something to do with the independece that comes with a certain part of life.
The "empy nest" syndrome!!!!!
Enjoying the new life of self after you are on your own. After a split up or children moving out of the house.
What will I do with all this free time.
Being happy with the riches of one's life & not having to be so responsible for anyone.
The falcon is showing her self-sufficiency.
How's this?
I do like this, too! Umbrae really opened doors with his comment about the card being about the relationship of the falcon and the woman...I see where you might get "empty nest" ....all of what you say fits...but somehow, that falcon has now taken on a darker side of the card for me....however, depending upon the question and the querent and whether RXd or not...all of this could apply...
I found this-
Falcon
"As a bird of prey it typifies freedom and hope for those who are being restricted in any way."
Is the lady in the picture picturing how she is being restricted by money?
Maybe she understands how the glory of money does not mean happiness. She is alone with her riches. She thought she would be happy with wealth & has learned that money does not buy happiness but buys you what can make you happy,only for a short time & then the loneliness sets back in.
O.K. tell me to stop. lol
Originally posted by ros
I found this-
Falcon
"As a bird of prey it typifies freedom and hope for those who are being restricted in any way."
Is the lady in the picture picturing how she is being restricted by money?
Mabee she understands how the glory of money does not mean happiness. She is alone with her riches. She thought she would be happy with wealth & has learned that money does not buy happiness but buys you what can make you happy,only for a short time & then the loneliness sets back in.
O.K. tell me to stop. lol
I absolutely love that definition about the falcon typifying freedom and hope for those who are restricted....gives me a positive interpretation as well....also about eh money, it's interesting that all the pentacles are near the bottom of the picture as though they are not "uppermost" of importance in her life...
This has been a great discussion for me...good to come back to when I pull the 9Pent again! terri
Thanks, ros! No I'm NOT LOL...I love it!
To examine the falcon/woman alone in this card, is to miss part of the card itself.
Take a good look here at the Nine of Pentacles. Notice anything? How about the Falcon and the Snail.
Fibonacci brought back from Egypt the concept of the Zero, that started the Banking Industry in Tuscan in the early eleven hundreds but he is remembered for the "Golden Mean.”
The “Golden Mean” was important to occultists of old – proof that God(dess) was found in mathematics.
The Snail represents, and equals 1.618033963.
Which relates to both the Falcon and its handler in myriad of ways. Begin at your knuckles. Measure the individual finger joints. What is the ratio between them? What is the ratio between the distance from your mouth to chin in relation to the distance from mouth to nose?
What is the size difference between each spiral on a snail cross section?
1.618033963 is referred to as the ‘Golden Ratio’. It repeats itself in all living things. It also represents the ratio between Fibonacci numbers, which are referred to as the Golden Mean.
To tame a bird of prey, to hunt on command, takes discipline and patience. One must develop a bond that goes beyond complete trust. Failure to develop such a relationship results in disaster. In addition, the practiced handler must exude confidence at all times.
The Nine of Pentacles is about successful relationships, personal and mathematical, a right reward for someone who has served others well and increased the benefits for everybody.
Empty nest is a concept that does not mix well with the number Nine.
o.k. Umbrae you get a 10.
But I tried.
A Ten from me, also....I seem to remember from my distant past
40+ years or more ago...about Fibonacci's Sequence....something about adding rectangles of equal size and continuing to " build" a new rectangle that would ultimately approach the Golden Mean
or "Golden Rectangle" If I understand, this relationship is about a delicate balance established between the falcon/nature? and the woman...and it must be fair/equal to approach it's "golden mean."
I always love it when you post. I learn so much...ty
terri
Phoenyx*
21-03-2004, 10:52
Originally posted by WalesWoman
I read Rachel Pollack's "Seventy Eight Degrees of Wisdom" about the 9 Pentacles representing creative discipline and thought that was a good theory, but she said nothing about the glove.
There is nothing about the glove in there, but perhaps the glove is just there to show that the bird is a bird of prey, something that you do need a certain amount of protection from, otherwise your arms would get all bloodied up from the claws.
In Seventy-Eight Degrees of Wisdom Pollack does say this about the falcon:
A soaring hunter, the falcon, respresents the intellect, the imagination, the spirit. The hood however subdues it to its mistress, that is, the conscious will. Therefore, while at a first glance the card means success, a more intimate knowledge of it, shifts the meaning of it to that of discipline. Entry through the Gate of this card will help bring one to the joy of true discipline, which does not cripple, but soars.
But, there is no mention of the snail. Looks like I'm back to researching the Golden Mean. How does the meaning of discipline in the card relate to the Golden Mean which is represented by the snail?
'78 degree's of pith' is a lovely overrated book. On a cold night...with little to no kindling - it displays its best use.
The Glove - and the Falcon MUST go together. You cannot tame birds of prey without protection, or your flesh will be flayed to the bone.
As I said, "To tame a bird of prey, to hunt on command, takes discipline and patience. One must develop a bond that goes beyond complete trust. Failure to develop such a relationship results in disaster. In addition, the practiced handler must exude confidence at all times."
To most folks a bird of prey is a bird. Simple, stupid - bird brained...and the opposite is true.
Birds of prey are smart individuals. However they are, wild animals, and they can (and will) turn on you.
Just as the snail, will destroy your garden...
They are symbols.
Phoenyx*
21-03-2004, 13:47
Originally posted by Umbrae
The Glove - and the Falcon MUST go together. You cannot tame birds of prey without protection, or your flesh will be flayed to the bone.
Yes Umbrae, that was exactly what I said. In fact my exact words were: "There is nothing about the glove in there, but perhaps the glove is just there to show that the bird is a bird of prey, something that you do need a certain amount of protection from, otherwise your arms would get all bloodied up from the claws. "
Originally posted by Umbrae
Birds of prey are smart individuals. However they are, wild animals, and they can (and will) turn on you.
Just as the snail, will destroy your garden...
They are symbols.
Symbols of the need for control? For discipline? For discipline to control? For order?
Obviously the garden is well-tended and not wild, which means the plants have been controlled in their growth patterns, either by using fertilizer, or water, things in volumes they would not get normally out in the wild.
If the wealth that the woman has achieved is self-achieved, then that would imply a certain amount of discipline and control of herself.
As for her controlling the bird of prey, it does require a certain amount of discipline and self-control, it takes time, years sometimes to establish the kind of relationship needed between a bird of prey and its person.
The snail is there, yes, but it is only one that is there. And its presence hasn't adversely affected the garden...yet. Perhaps this is a sign of a certain amount of chaos in the order that has not been seen yet and controlled.
but there is only one snail....which alone cannot destroy the garden...so the environment is near the "golden mean"....She has earned the trust of the falcon, her environment has the one snail....there is no chaos here, but order that has emerged from discipline. And it is a a very small snail that she can easily destroy if she needs to...but maybe one snail is ok in this balanced scene
terri