from neruda to playing card suits to the fairy tarots

[laura_borealis]

Funny how sometimes when you're chasing one question, you stumble across the answer to another -- and perhaps create more questions you can't answer.

I've been reading a volume of Pablo Neruda's poetry, with original Spanish on one side and an English translation on the other. One poem, Baraja, is about the days of the week as a deck of cards. I noticed that where Neruda had said "copas, bastones, oros," the translation had "hearts, diamonds, clubs." For a few moments I wondered if Neruda was actually talking about tarot suits, and the translator missed it. Then I remembered that some countries' playing card suits are different, so I looked online to see what the Spanish ones are.

Sure enough, they are copas (cups), bastones (clubs), oros (coins, literally gold I think), and espadas (swords), rather than the hearts, clubs, diamonds, and spades I am used to. So I had my answer -- Neruda was indeed using playing cards, not tarot, as a metaphor in his poem.

But in finding this out, I also noticed the German playing card suits: hearts, bells, acorns, and leaves. I immediately recognized the suits of the Fairy Tarots. Lupatelli must have used the German suits intentionally -- it couldn't be a coincidence.

So now I have a bit more information about the Fairy Tarots, to add to the LWB text that Riccardo (so nice!) sent to me. But I find myself more perplexed.

The Fairy Tarots were created by an Italian (I believe) -- they also feature art by a British Victorian painter (http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9588&highlight=fairy) -- and they use the German playing card suits. A truly international deck! But can fairies be said to have national ties? They seem too capricious. :)

Did Lupatelli use the German suits for a specific reason? Or was it just that hearts, bells, acorns, and leaves seemed fairy-ish to him? In searching for significance, am I really just falling prey to a pixie's prank? ;)

This deck is perplexing me, and I haven't even begun to explore Firemaiden's discovery (http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10762&highlight=fairy) of similarities between the Fairy's minors and those of the Thoth....

[firemaiden]

Interesting thread, laura borealis. The Spanish and Italian playing cards preserve the old names of playing card suits, as does Tarot.

In fact, in Tarot are preserved the names and appearance of playing cards as they first showed up in Europe. Take a look at - the Mamluk cards (http://it.geocities.com/a_pollett/cards64.htm), they are nearly identical to the pips from the Marseille Deck.

See Alibee's thread on Mamluk cards (http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14201).

What are now called batons were originally polo sticks, which explains whey they look like polo sticks. :laugh:

The swords were originally scimtars which explains why they look like scimitars. :laugh:

As for the pictoral correspondances I discovered with the Thoth minors, those have to be are purely coincidental. :laugh: although some of them are striking.

(That was one of my early "mad scenes" on Aeclectic).

[Jewel-ry]

I have a set of Prager Bild Jednohlave Czech Cards which Baba sent me (thanks baba) and they also use hearts, bells, acorns and leaves. I dont know if its relevant but heres the link. Scroll down a little to find them

http://a_pollett.tripod.com/cards13.htm

J:)

[jmd]

I do not have the fairy deck, so am only adding a rather small comment with regards to the correlations between the four Tarot suits and the four common playing-card suits.

Though many tend to correlate Swords to Spade, Bastons to Clubs, Cups to Hearts and Coins to Diamonds, this is mainly due to the adopted Engllish titles of those suits, and the etymological connections which arise (especially between 'spade' and 'sword', and 'clubs' and 'bastons'). The two major European equivalences, however, tends to be otherwise. For these, the imagery, rather than the English appelation, needs to be considered. Here the 'Club' and the Coin are connected, as are the 'Diamond' and either the Bastons or the Sword, and the leaf-like or spear-point 'spade' (which can also be taken to be a spade) and Bastons or Sword.

For how the imagery of the suits coincides, a Marseille-type deck probably makes visual comparisons easier.

To 'translate', then, the 'copas, bastones, oros' as 'hearts, diamonds, clubs' seems quite 'correct' if the familiar suits are considered...

It should also be pointed out that not all countries have the familiar French-originating Diamonds, Hearts, Clubs and Spades, but that, for example, standard playing cards in parts of Italy retain the four suits we Tarot enthusiasts are also quite familiar with.

[laura_borealis]

Originally posted by firemaiden


As for the pictoral correspondances I discovered with the Thoth minors, those have to be are purely coincidental. :laugh: although some of them are striking.

(That was one of my early "mad scenes" on Aeclectic).

Oh, I realise the correspondances are likely coincidental -- though it is possible that the particular Doyle illustrations used were chosen for their visual similarity to the Thoth, as well as their (sometimes quite tenuous) RWS correspondance. :)

But I've looked a bit at both decks together today, and I think studying them side by side is fun and interesting. If nothing else, it can strengthen observation. For instance, though I didn't find a notable similarity, I saw more in the Thoth 2 of Disks after comparing it to the Fairy 2 of Bells -- somehow I had always missed the little elemental symbols inside the snake's yin-yang pies. Fire and water in the top yin-yang, air and earth in the bottom.

I haven't compared every pip (and I may not) but there are some thought-provoking visual parallels. Take the 9 of Bells and the 9 of Disks:

- a little bird, shown in profile, being crowned king vs. a disk showing a king's face in profile
- a fairy wearing a cap curled like a plume vs. a disk showing a head wearing a plumed cap
- one bird has a tiny bird perched on its head vs. a head with some tiny object perched on it

Probably coincidences, but fun to look for, no? And possibly mad, but I have frequently been accused of being crazy. :)

Thank you very much for the link to the Mamluk cards. I had heard of them, but had not seen them. They're gorgeous -- I love the arabesque designs. And the site is quite informative -- I will have to study it, and Alibee's thread, more closely.

[laura_borealis]

Originally posted by Jewel-ry
I have a set of Prager Bild Jednohlave Czech Cards which Baba sent me (thanks baba) and they also use hearts, bells, acorns and leaves. I dont know if its relevant but heres the link. Scroll down a little to find them

http://a_pollett.tripod.com/cards13.htm

J:)

Thank you -- fascinating site! :) So it seems that hearts, bells, acorns and leaves are more a central European thing than just German. I'm still curious about why Lupatelli used those suits, but they do seem fitting.

On the page you linked to, I noticed that one of the German-suit patterns is called the Four Seasons. Deuces depict a little scene relating to agricultural life:

Hearts -- Spring -- girl picking flowers
Bells -- Summer -- people threshing corn
Leaves -- Autumn -- wine making -- people stomping grapes
Acorns -- Winter -- old woman carrying a bundle

Lupatelli's Fairy courts also seem to reflect the seasons. Acorn courts have wintery landscapes. Leaves don't look particularly autumnal to me, showing deep green leaves, but I am perhaps judging by the harsher seasons I am used to. Hearts have a spring-like quality and the Knave of Bells is standing next to some ripe summer berries. :)

[laura_borealis]

Originally posted by jmd
I do not have the fairy deck, so am only adding a rather small comment with regards to the correlations between the four Tarot suits and the four common playing-card suits.

Though many tend to correlate Swords to Spade, Bastons to Clubs, Cups to Hearts and Coins to Diamonds, this is mainly due to the adopted Engllish titles of those suits, and the etymological connections which arise (especially between 'spade' and 'sword', and 'clubs' and 'bastons'). The two major European equivalences, however, tends to be otherwise. For these, the imagery, rather than the English appelation, needs to be considered. Here the 'Club' and the Coin are connected, as are the 'Diamond' and either the Bastons or the Sword, and the leaf-like or spear-point 'spade' (which can also be taken to be a spade) and Bastons or Sword.
Thank you, I did not know this. It's interesting -- as a child, I always thought the spade looked most like a leaf, and that the club looked like three coins.

To 'translate', then, the 'copas, bastones, oros' as 'hearts, diamonds, clubs' seems quite 'correct' if the familiar suits are considered... You are right -- it even follows the order. I had thought the translator made an aesthetic choice in changing the order.

[laura_borealis]

One last Fairy Tarots observation, and then I will shut up for now. ;)

Richard Doyle, who created the lovely illustrations that have been used for the Fairy Tarots' pips, was the uncle of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. Besides being the famous author of the Sherlock Holmes stories, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was connected with the Cottingley Fairy affair. Though I'm sure there is no deep significance, the association with the Cottingley case tickles my fancy. :)

See: http://www.ash-tree.bc.ca/acdsfairies.htm

[Fulgour]

Funny how sometimes when you're chasing one question, you stumble across the answer to another -- and perhaps create more questions you can't answer.It just so happens that I was searching the forum archives
about another altogether unrelated (???) matter when your
thread caught my eye in the search list... and what do you
know but there were your words (as quoted) of inspiration!


déjà vu