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Fulgour
26-06-2004, 01:47
If viewed as a cross, rather than a wheel, the zodiac may be seen as Houses of the Sun, and Houses of the Moon. The mutable signs are contained within these houses, reflecting the quality of the other energies.

SUN (Yang)
Aquarius><Leo (detriment and rulership)
[Pisces:Virgo]
Aries><Libra (exaltation and fall)

MOON (Yin)
Taurus><Scorpio (exaltation and fall)
[Gemini:Sagittarius]
Cancer><Capricorn (rulership and detriment)

If we then think of the rulership/detriment relationships of the mutable signs, with the amazing Mercury-Jupiter combination there, what is it we are really seeing?

isthmus nekoi
03-07-2004, 02:18
What about Venus who is exalt/fall in Pisces/Virgo?

Fulgour
03-07-2004, 16:01
"Venus is in there," I replied, somewhat abruptly.
Forgive my conversational reticence please, and
consider the obviously crude but sincere post
below...

Fulgour
03-07-2004, 23:18
Note that the Sun, Mercury, and Venus all have the same
average daily motion from the viewpoint of geocentric astrology
since they all travel together as a group (like a mini-solar system)
around the earth, which is the center of the geocentric universe.

Sun = 0d 59m 08s
Mercury = 0d 59m 08s
Venus = 0d 59m 08s

And since the subject of exaltations has been raised,
for the Mutable signs we have the amazing, fantastic,
awe inspiring, and absolutely phenomenal:
North and South NODES exalted in Gemini and Sagittarius.

So the exaltation match-up of VENUS and MERCURY
in Pisces and Virgo, considering the truly incredible
splendour of their shared average daily motions is
totally cool!

The Houses of the Moon border the Yang Mutables and Nodes.

The Houses of the Sun border the Yin Mutables and the two
planets keeping average daily motion with Le Soleil.

Fulgour
04-07-2004, 00:13
SUN
Aquarius><Leo
[Pisces:Virgo]
Aries><Libra

MOON
Taurus><Scorpio
[Gemini:Sagittarius]
Cancer><Capricorn

Fulgour
09-07-2004, 15:04
I guess if people are focused on the influences of the outer
planets, esoteric astrology, or daily horoscopes this is all silly.

But if you take a blank zodiac chart, and colour this in, it's there.
I try to see things with a sense of wonder and discovery...
but as far as credentials, I'm toast.

isthmus nekoi
10-07-2004, 01:09
Fulgour,

Why don't you tell us what it is you're seeing as you seem so enthusiastic about it? I myself would love to know and I am certain more people would join the discussion if they were more clear about what you are writing about :) Please bear in mind that the Socratic method can get a little muddy over the internet :D

Fulgour
10-07-2004, 02:43
I have a blank Zodiac wheel that I've coloured:

Green: Taurus Cancer Scorpio Capricorn
Lt. Blue: Gemini and Sagittarius

Orange: Aries Leo Libra Aquarius
Pink: Pisces and Virgo

This allows me to see them in a new light, abstractly as
the houses of the Moon, and the houses of the Sun.

Basically, I'm trying to break through to the mysteries
contained in the Mutable signs of Jupiter and Mercury.
I mean, isn't that combination wondrous and strange?

isthmus nekoi
12-07-2004, 08:39
Hey Fulgour, thanks for the explanation! I've drawn up a similar chart and added an extra circle to include the rest of the planets. I see what you mean about a pattern...

As to the relation b/w the mutable signs and Mercury/Jupiter, what do you think would relate the two planets other than their connection to the mutables? Almost always I've thought of Jupiter being paired w/Saturn as its opposite.

As for the mutable signs themselves, there seems to be more emphasis placed on the cardinals (in astro w/the ASC, MC etc) and the fixed signs (whose symbols often carry through into other esoteric systems), one wonders what is up w/that...

Fulgour
12-07-2004, 21:56
Originally posted by isthmus nekoi
As to the relation b/w the mutable signs and Mercury/Jupiter, what do you think would relate the two planets other than their connection to the mutables? "The most significant observance of the Babylonian calendar was the Babylonian New Year festival, which recreated the battle of Marduk against Chaos. During this festival, the image of Nebo was ceremonially removed from its shrine in Borsippa and carried to the temple of Marduk in Babylon. Through this act of Nebo being symbolically joined with his father, it was established that Mercury (Nebo) served Jupiter (Marduk). This ceremonial enactment represents the link of an individual's mind with his sense of purpose."

_____________________________

I have a link for this quote, but find the
nature of the site tending toward chaos.

Fulgour
12-07-2004, 22:38
I was surprised to find that Immanuel Velikovsky was
controversial ~ I came across him on the web while
researching Chaldean astrology. I have no problem
using him as a reference (unlike my previous post).

Mercury
http://www.varchive.org/itb/merkur.htm

Jupiter
http://www.varchive.org/itb/jupiter.htm

isthmus nekoi
14-07-2004, 03:10
The links are interesting, particularly the one about Jupiter. Such a contrast to modern astrology's attitude (Jupiter makes you fat and lazy).

I was thinking of the astrological assignations of the mutables the other day:

Gemini - the Lovers/6
Virgo - the Hermit/9
Sagittarius - Art/14 (or 5)
Pisces - the Moon/18 (or 9)

In the Thoth deck, the yang mutable cards are so interconnected in terms of alchemical symbolism: solve et coagula.

As for the yin mutables, they both feature yods in Thoth, perhaps there are other connections to be found.

Fulgour
17-07-2004, 14:44
Based as I see it on the Phoenician Alphabet,
to my thinking, the Sign-name arrangement:

SUN
Aquarius><Leo
[Pisces:Virgo]
Aries><Libra

MOON
Taurus><Scorpio
[Gemini:Sagittarius]
Cancer><Capricorn

appears in Tarot as

XVII
XVIII >< VIIII
[ XVIIII : X ]
V >< XII

II
VI >< XIIII
[ VII : XV ]
VIII >< XVI

And I apologize for how this looks... like boiled newspapers.

Fulgour
17-07-2004, 22:34
I sometimes picture knowledge like the table cloth upon
the underlying structure of reality. What supports our intelligence
and its many beautiful manifestations and associations, is the
four-legged board of functional actuality.

Stripped down to its origins, what tree provided the material
we conveniently make use of? At the roots, how did it grow
to provide the material we now recognize, and if form follows
function ~ what is the true shape beneath our perception of it?

The mutable signs give a powerful indication of the overall pattern.
They are sandwiched between elementarily contrary signs, and yet
form the core of those cardinal and fixed powerhouses.

Fulgour
03-08-2004, 19:15
Originally posted by isthmus nekoi
The links are interesting, particularly the one about Jupiter. Such a contrast to modern astrology's attitude (Jupiter makes you fat and lazy).

I was thinking of the astrological assignations of the mutables the other day:

Gemini - the Lovers/6
Virgo - the Hermit/9
Sagittarius - Art/14 (or 5)
Pisces - the Moon/18 (or 9)

In the Thoth deck, the yang mutable cards are so interconnected in terms of alchemical symbolism: solve et coagula.

As for the yin mutables, they both feature yods in Thoth, perhaps there are other connections to be found. I really do see your point, because Crowley was so profoundly original.
How refreshing these days!