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Fulgour
27-08-2004, 02:45
The Zodiac Compass of the Astrological Lodge of London

(Click here to View) (http://www.amrep.org/images/pericles/Zodiac.gif)

The 'compass' is divided in three by very distinctive black lines:
Aries through Cancer, Leo through Scorpio, Sagittarius through Pisces.

Can anyone tell me please, what is the significance of these divisions?

Thanks!

Minderwiz
27-08-2004, 07:30
Fire

Earth

Air

Water

The triplicities!

Fulgour
27-08-2004, 07:35
I was referring to the big black Y that divides
the circle of the compass:

Aries thru Cancer in one section
(Moon and Mercury, Venus, Mars)

Leo thru Scorpio the next, and
(Sun and Mercury, Venus, Mars)

Sagittarius thru Pisces
(Jupiter and Saturn)

Minderwiz
27-08-2004, 07:40
Each segment contains the Four elements - Fire Earth Air Water in that order, or if you like the run is:

Fire Earth Air Water, Fire Earth Air Water, Fire Earth Air Water.

The division is based on the elements - one of each element in each block. The Tiriplicities are the three signs for each element.

If you look closely you will also see three 4 pointed crosses based on the Cardinal, Fixed and Mutable signs respectively.

The compass points to the two fundamental sign divisions, elements and modalities.

Fulgour
27-08-2004, 07:43
We're zeroing in on it, I think. But what is the significance
of dividing them in this way... why do it and what does it mean?

Minderwiz
27-08-2004, 07:45
Sorry I was editing my previous post to be a little more precise,

The compass shows the two fundamental sign divisions - Elements, or Triplicities, and Qualities (modes) or Quadruplicities

Fulgour
27-08-2004, 07:51
The Arrows point to the Quadruplicities

The Triangles point to the Triplicities

...all very elemental.

But what about the big Y


I have the feeling this graphic was created specifically
to show this peculiar three-way division of the houses,
but...?

Minderwiz
27-08-2004, 08:02
As there are no house divisions on the graphic , i think we have to take the lines as solely Sign related. The 'Y' (actually an equilateral figure with angles of 120 degrees) - simply shows the three fold division based on Elements - there's nothing more elaborate to it.

If you really want to drag houses into it, you are faced with a division that only makes sense on the basis of 'Fire', 'Earth', 'Air' and 'Water' - or as sometimes expressed, Life, Substance, Relationships and Feelings (or Endings).

Fulgour
27-08-2004, 08:31
As we can see that this graphic includes the directions

North South East and West

the Signs (as shown) would be in their natural houses.

Directions being a constant, what then might we now propose?

Minderwiz
27-08-2004, 10:00
Astrologically,

Aries is East, Cancer is North, Libra is West and Capricorn is North - these sign/direction associations are well established and have been used as such in horary for at least two millenia.

The First House is also East, Fourth North, Seventh West and Tenth Sourth - again these directions are well established and used in horary.

As you recognise, the Signs are arranged from Aries aligned to its natural compass direction - the 'natural' houses.

I'd be interested to hear what deeper meaning you think may be implied.

Fulgour
27-08-2004, 10:11
Cancer to Gemini-Taurus-Aries:
Moon and Mercury-Venus-Mars

Leo to Virgo-Libra-Scorpio:
Sun and Mercury-Venus-Mars

Sagittarius-Capricorn-Aquarius-Pisces:
Jupiter-Saturn-Saturn-Jupiter


This is as near to an answer as I can envision, but
perhaps the Astrological Lodge of London knows..?

isthmus nekoi
27-08-2004, 11:06
Fulgour, it's difficult to answer your question when you are so vague about the type of answer you are expecting. If you have a specific idea or theory you have in mind and would like to discuss it, please share; I am sure it will be very interesting.

Fulgour
27-08-2004, 11:12
Originally posted by isthmus nekoi
Fulgour, it's difficult to answer your question when you are so vague about the type of answer you are expecting. If you have a specific idea or theory you have in mind and would like to discuss it, please share; I am sure it will be very interesting. 1. The Astrological Lodge of London has created a Zodiac Compass.
2. I have provided a link where it may be viewed.

3. There is a big Y dividing it in three.
4. And that takes us back to my original post... asking, Why?

isthmus nekoi
27-08-2004, 11:27
Your original post was very clear. But it seems from your replies to Minderwiz that you already have a sense of what it is the Y division represents. If this is so, an elucidation on your part would be greatly appreciated.

Astraea
28-08-2004, 00:52
As I read the compass, the thick black lines having the collective shape of a "Y" serve only to trisect space and illustrate the fourfold "stack" of elements within each of the three sectors. The directional markers are not related to the "Y" except as a starting point, Aries being the archetypal sign on the eastern horizon of the natural zodiac. In other words, the E (for east) marker is coincident with Aries, but the N, W and S markers are unrelated to the triple division of space within the compass.

Ophelea
28-08-2004, 01:18
Hello,

I am new to the AT Forum and Tarot - though astrology is my first love... Nice to see an astro section here:)

Thanks for the puzzle - please allow me to write my observations:

Aries thru Cancer: Begins and ends with cardinal signs.

Leo thru Scorpio: Begins and ends with fixed signs.

Sagittarius thru Pisces: Begins and ends with mutable signs.

I think Astraea puts it best by describing the "fourfold stack of elements within the three sectors." I think the three sectors suggest the qualities- cardinal, fixed and mutable.

I see Aries thru Cancer "young" signs. The births of the 4 elements. Leo thru Scorpio are more established and mature. And Sag thru Pisces wiser, ending the cycle - releasing to start anew.

Just my two cents, anyways -

O.

Minderwiz
28-08-2004, 01:21
Originally posted by Fulgour
Cancer to Gemini-Taurus-Aries:
Moon and Mercury-Venus-Mars

Leo to Virgo-Libra-Scorpio:
Sun and Mercury-Venus-Mars

Sagittarius-Capricorn-Aquarius-Pisces:
Jupiter-Saturn-Saturn-Jupiter


This is as near to an answer as I can envision, but
perhaps the Astrological Lodge of London knows..?


Fulgour,

Like Isthmus, I'm rather at a loss here. Your original question on the trisection of the 'compass' was quite clear but this post is obscure - being simply sequences of traditional rulerships.

I read the compass in the same way Astraea does and seen no more into the 'Y' than the trisection on the basis of element sequences.

Try and post your line of thought in some detail and I'm sure we can work towards an answer to your starting question.

Macavity
28-08-2004, 01:21
I guess the thing that struck me was the coincidence of the "Y" with the reflection axis of the traditional planetary sign rulers? The only other association I make with "Y"s is their use as a heraldic device on Arms of clergy, i.e. representing a Cardinal's or Archbishop's "See". Maybe it's a device associated with the... "Triune nature of God" etc. ;)

Macavity

Macavity
28-08-2004, 02:07
The Rosicrucians seem to be quite fond of their "Astrological Mandalas". See:

http://www.rosicrucian.com/sia/siaeng23.htm (quite an interesting series)

Aside from various quadrants etc., they say:

The triune dimension is expressed in reference to the wheel as a whole by the "grand trines"--the equilateral triangles formed by connecting the cusps of (1) the first, fifth, and ninth houses; (2) the second, sixth and tenth houses; (3) the third, seventh and eleventh houses and (4) the fourth, eighth and twelfth houses. These trines pertain, respectively, to the four elements: (1) Fire: Spirit; (2) Earth: Consciousness of evaluation of forms; (3) Air: Identification and relationship consciousness; (4) Water: emotional responsiveness--the principle of sympathetic vibration.

O.K. triangles, but GMTA? ;)

Macavity

Minderwiz
28-08-2004, 04:42
Yes the grand trines are clearly shown in the 'compass' by the white triangles - reaffirming the importance of the elements.

Fulgour
28-08-2004, 05:20
Well, I want to personally thank the Astrological Lodge of London
for a really cool graphic, very helpful for its North-South clarification
when one enters the realm of Tarot, where there is no consensus.
It has been my pleasure to share this rare discovery with you all.

Fulgour
28-08-2004, 05:33
Originally posted by Ophelea
I see Aries thru Cancer "young" signs. The births of the 4 elements. Leo thru Scorpio are more established and mature. And Sag thru Pisces wiser, ending the cycle - releasing to start anew. Last night at dinner this was just what my wife and I were thinking.
Of the entire Zodiac divided as if by Decanates: Cardinal-Fixed-Mutable.



:) Thanks, Ophelea!

Ophelea
29-08-2004, 13:45
Originally posted by Fulgour
Last night at dinner this was just what my wife and I were thinking.
Of the entire Zodiac divided as if by Decanates: Cardinal-Fixed-Mutable.



Decanates- A good way to put it.

...And... I think you are lucky to be married to someone with whom you can discuss these things with, over dinner.

O.

Fulgour
03-09-2004, 14:17
Originally posted by Astraea
In other words, the E (for east) marker is coincident with Aries, but the N, W and S markers are unrelated to the triple division of space within the compass. I think this going to be the mystery here, just really why the
Astrological Lodge of London combined so may various elements
into one stunning visual. They all make sense, as they are,
except the triple division. Although, we did alright pegging it!


:)