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Satori
30-10-2004, 02:03
There has been a discussion brewing over in the reading exchange between the members of the Let's Marseilles! group. It has been suggested that a Marseilles Reading Exchange be created in the Marseilles and Historical threads area.

The Let's Marseilles! seekers threads are very active. We have multiple spin-off threads being created quite often, and truly deserve a place with the Marseilles study threads.

Please advise us as to the steps we need to take in order to have a separate reading forum created specifically for Marseilles readings.

Thanks so much,
claudia

Diana
30-10-2004, 02:05
I second this. :)

Anna
30-10-2004, 02:41
Thank you elf for speaking on behalf of our little group :)

Or prehaps I should say big group :D There have been over 20 of us involved in the last 7 weeks.

maria42airam
30-10-2004, 04:00
I third it!

spoonbender
30-10-2004, 04:04
I think that's a great idea!

mercenary30
30-10-2004, 04:10
I will sign this petition as well.

mooncat2
30-10-2004, 06:16
Adding one more small voice!

Major Tom
30-10-2004, 18:52
As a member of the Let's Marseille group, albeit for a short time only, I want to point out that the desire for a separate forum for Marseille readings is not universal.

For me, the Marseille study group threads are an absolutely wonderful addition to the Reading Exchange. Within the Reading Exchange we have a large number of people reading with all sorts of tarot decks. Many of these people will only have become aware of the Tarot de Marseille via the study group threads. Many people in the Reading Exchange never venture into the Historical section of the boards.

Moving the Let's Marseille group threads to the Historical Section would only mean that those many people will not get to see how marvelous the Marseille is for readings.

The Let's Marseille threads are wonderful for the participants - the learning and growth shared in a supportive atmosphere is developing some excellent reading skills. I would suggest that the threads are equally wonderful for the rest of the people on the Reading Exchange too.

Isn't the point of Let's Marseille to help educate regarding the Tarot de Marseille?

Why then separate ourselves from those who, although not participants (yet) also benefit?

Diana
30-10-2004, 18:58
Major Tom: I understand your concerns. Another possibility could be spitting the Reading Exchange into two sections. One specifically for Marseilles readings.

It would be very useful for present and future students to have all the Marseilles readings grouped together. Right now, they are all over the place and therefore it is not practical for study purposes.

Anna
30-10-2004, 19:10
I think I understand your views Tom :)

When I began the group, my biggest aim was to make a place where people could try out reading with the Tarot of Marseilles, to experience it for themselves. I particullarly wanted to include people who didn't even own a Marseille deck, by posting scans of the cards for them to read from.

We were very nervous durring that first round of readings!! But how much far we have walked from those first faltering steps! :)

I very much agree with you when you say that the point of the threads is to help educate people about the Tarot of Marseilles.

I would be sad to think that this would be hindered by a move to a seperate forum area.

Yet we are ready to expand, and our own space would give us much more room to spread out, try new ideas, post our own Marseille readings , etc.

And, computor geek that I am, there could be index's and reference lists to cards studied, making the huge number of threads we have generated easier to navigate!

I wonder if we could find a sollution?

A sollution where by we get to have the benefits that our own space would bring, and also get to provide that wonderful opportunity to experiment with the Marseille to the wider community.

One thing that immediatly comes to mind, and I think somebody has suggested this, is that should we move, we could open the very begginer circle in the reading exchange area again. 1 card readings for specific questions within the reading exchange area. I imagine that now we are progressing to harder stuff, its harder for people new to the Marseille to feel able to join in anyway. Starting from the beggining again might make the group more inclusive.

Do you think this possiblity might work?

Major Tom
30-10-2004, 19:22
Originally posted by Diana
Right now, they are all over the place and therefore it is not practical for study purposes.

If your desire is to see all the threads together on a single page - this is easily achieved. ;)

Here's some directions:

1. Go to the search screen.
2. In the keywords section type: Let's Marseille* (don't forget the * or you won't get all the threads)
3. In the search option section select the Reading Exchange as the board to search.
4. Tick the box that says search titles only
5. Click the perform search button.

As you can see here (http://www.tarotforum.net/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=436203&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending&perpage=25&pagenumber=1) the search presently contains 65 threads on 3 pages and growing. ;)

Any student may spend as many hours exploring the threads as s/he wishes.

There's no need for any separation. })

If someone really wanted to - a good idea might be to create a table of contents thread for the Let's Marseille*! threads to post as a sticky at the top of the Reading Exchange. :)

tmgrl2
31-10-2004, 03:18
I hear what Major Tom is saying...

We have a Reading Exchange.

I do agree with Diana, though, that it would be great to have a split in the Reading Exchange so the "tradition" of reading with Marseille decks would be visibly separate.


We really have a large ball rolling with CP's Let's Marseille weekly Exchange....

terri

Satori
31-10-2004, 05:35
I have participated in only a couple of the seekers threads since coming back to AT. I love them. I love the reading exchange. I love illustrated pips too. I never thought I'd be joining the Marseilles forum in any shape, way or form.

There are references to the Marseilles tarot all over the forum. References to tarot purists, unillustrated pips and to all kinds of great decks, great techniques.

In keeping with Major Tom's idea to put a sticky about the Let's Marseilles threads at the head of the reading exchange I would totally agree. Let people know that another reading exchange exists, and that it is located over at the Marseilles section of AT.

Our group is expanding and taking steps beyond our first tentative single card readings. We will be a beacon of interest not matter where our home lies.

Perhaps the addition of a reading exchange in the Marseilles area will foster more readings in addition to the Let's Marseilles readings, using other historical decks as well, decks whose study is being posted about in the Historical area.

It is worth a try I think.

Diana
31-10-2004, 06:05
Originally posted by elf
Perhaps the addition of a reading exchange in the Marseilles area will foster more readings in addition to the Let's Marseilles readings, using other historical decks as well, decks whose study is being posted about in the Historical area.


As a well-known Marseilles fundamentalist and purist, I would prefer to have a section devoted solely to the Marseilles tradition, and not mix it with other Historical (Italian for instance) traditions.

I like my coffee pure Arabica....

firemaiden
31-10-2004, 06:16
Originally posted by Diana
As a well-known Marseilles fundamentalist and purist...

:D :D I love this proud designation! :D :D

I don't have an opinion. Well, maybe I do. I like seeing the threads in Rx. If they were separated, they would be -- separated. LOL.

I think there are too many separate forums as it it. I feel each new category makes the forum home page more difficult to navigate, and to see all on one page.

Rusty Neon
31-10-2004, 06:18
I agree with elf's suggestion about inclusivity. I see nothing wrong with a historical tarot deck reading exchange board that is more inclusive, rather than limiting itself to Tarot de Marseille. In my view, a reading exchange board in the historical section of ATF would be more consistent with the inclusive mandate of the current "Marseille & Other Early Decks" board if any such new reading exchange board in the historical section of ATF were to include readings with not only historical Tarot de Marseille decks but also include pre-20th century Italian decks in the Marseille school, Visconti school and Soprafino school all of which have non-scenic pip cards.

If special status for Marseille decks (over Italian decks) were bestowed by giving a reading exchange board to the Marseille decks in the historical section of ATF, I would, for conceptual reasons, question the appropriateness of including late 20th century revisionings of the Marseille (while not including Italian decks) on such a reading exchange board. Even if one puts Visconti and Soprafino traditions aside for the sake of argument, I would observe that Italian Marseille cousins (e.g., Lo Scarabeo reproduction of Tarot of Bologna) are closer to the tree of Tarot de Marseille tradition than those late 20th century TdM revisionings.

Moongold
31-10-2004, 10:32
As a former Moderator of the Reading Exchange and a regular user of the Exchange I would be a little sad to see the Marseilles readings split off.

The location of the readings there makes them more accessible to everyone. Newcomers frequently spread their wings in the Exchange. Having the Marseilles readings there is a good way of promoting the Marseilles deck itself and the Exchange.

One of the articulated "barriers" to the use of the Marseilles prior to this was the perceived exclusivity of it. If that still holds true then I wonder if locating the current "Let's Marseilles" in another section would not not add to that. Why not also have a "Let's Thoth" in another?

CP suggests that a separate Marseilles Readings forum would accommodate personal Marseilles readings. That also crosses the terrain of the forum Your Readings and adds to the possibility of perceptions of "elitism".

CP mentioned something about people getting more skilled and wanting to try more advanced things. Well, I wonder if that is an argument at all. Some of the most sophisticated, beautiful readings are one card throws. The art is in the Reader and their interpretive skills not necessarily the complexity of the spread. And there are other very good and sophisticated readings using other decks in the Exchange already. Are we setting the ground for introducing "levels" of reading now? Some times the clearest of readings may be the unfettered view of the Newcomer.

The other thought I have is that the current series of readings are contemporary, not historic. I love to read other people's readings. I'm not sure that I'd want to travel to a different forum to do it. It is a little like going to our Sunday Market on St.Kilda Esplanade and brousing all the stalls.

Please don't move them :). Not yet anyway.

Moongold
31-10-2004, 11:23
PS _ There is a wonderful feeling of creativity, happiness and energy in the Let's Marseilles threads. :)

A lot of that flows from CP's lovely energy I think. It seems to attract similar energies.

If CP was to leave would the group be ongoing? Many seem to be in the full flush of Marseiles enthusiasm and this may fade as time goes on. How many of us have been left with a study group to carry on alone :( ?.

I think the separatism widens the gap between interests and traditions that do still have a lot in common.

smleite
02-11-2004, 21:44
As I see it, the “Let's Marseilles” threads have a life of their own, and have gained such weight that they surely deserve some individuality – not to speak about the very peculiar character of these kinds of readings. I also understand Major Tom’s opinion, as others do, of course. And I have nothing against, maybe on the contrary, Rusty Neon’s idea of a reading exchange board in the historical section of ATF. It seems I’m a bit confused… so, and because Moongold’s opinion made me think a lot – and touched me too - I’ll finish with her sentence: “don't move them. Not yet anyway”.

Silvia

Rusty Neon
02-11-2004, 22:14
Originally posted by smleite
And I have nothing against, maybe on the contrary, Rusty Neon’s idea of a reading exchange board in the historical section of ATF.


To clarify, I didn't indicate that the historical reading exchange board had to necessarily be in the historical section of ATF. Wherever it goes however, a historical deck reading exchange board should be inclusive to cover all early tarot decks, not just Marseille decks.

Satori
02-11-2004, 23:45
I agree with Rusty.
If we are to have a separate Reading Exchange it should be inclusive of all historical decks.

I think the separation of the reading exchange to include historical decks is really not all that surprising. The separate forum headings really are wonderful and make the forum pretty easy to navigate for me.

If we are to wait I would like to know what we are waiting for.
Why should we not move them yet? As we go further into the Marseille with our reading group it seems that the move should occur sooner rather than later so that we can really keep our threads together and find them with a little more ease.

A sticky can go on the top of the Reading Exchanges directing people to either exchange and can contain links if desired.

What's the next step?
Do we tally the votes or is there another process I'm unaware of?

Diana
03-11-2004, 00:36
Originally posted by elf
What's the next step?
Do we tally the votes or is there another process I'm unaware of?

It's Solandia who decides and makes the final decision (after consulting whomever she wants to consult). I imagine that she's preparing for the big Forum up-date on the 4th (which I hope everyone is aware of - could take up to 36 hours) and can't take care of this right now.

Actually, this thread should be in the Suggestions forum and not Technical Support.

I have read all the viewpoints here.

I still am very much in favour (even more so than before) of the Marseilles threads having a separate section somewhere - and not to mix them up with other historical decks.

My opinion is that if they are going to be mixed up with other decks, well then why bother to remove them from the Reading Exchange? What would be the difference?

We're not reading HISTORICAL DECKS in our Exchange group. We're reading the MARSEILLES DECKS. You know.... that tradition that we have been reading in our little group (which I hope expands) and which takes our breath away.

Our threads are called "Let's Marseilles". Not "Let's read historical decks with unillustrated pips."

The Marseilles is a tradition of its own. It has nothing to do with Visconti Sforza or Eteilla or Minchiate or whatever. Absolutely nothing. (Well.... they're kind of very distant cousins, but that's all.)

(Rusty Neon: Are you planning to join us soon in our Marseilles Exchange Group? I would be most interested in seeing how you read the cards. :) )

Rusty Neon
03-11-2004, 01:24
Originally posted by Diana
(Rusty Neon: Are you planning to join us soon in our Marseilles Exchange Group? I would be most interested in seeing how you read the cards. :) )

The group so far has in effect been a working group on the Hadar deck. That's a deck that I don't use.

spoonbender
03-11-2004, 01:35
Originally posted by Rusty Neon
I have the right to express my views regardless of whether I've participated in what's, in effect, the Let's Hadar threads. I'm willing to participate in a truly inclusive Let's Marseille thread.
Rusty, you can read with ANY Marseille deck you want in the Let's Marseille threads. CharmingPixie adds attachments of the Hadar just so that we all can get a look at the card without having to take out our decks - that's all.

smleite
03-11-2004, 01:36
Hey, I never used the Hadar deck in Let’s Marseilles. Was I supposed to?

Diana
03-11-2004, 01:49
smleite: Not everyone was using the Hadar. People used the Marseilles decks they had and even the deck they DIDN'T have!!! :D This is not a Let's Hadar exchange group. It's a Let's Marseilles exchange group. :)

lark
03-11-2004, 01:57
Rusty I used my Heron Conver.
I just put my own attachments of what my cards look like in my thread.
I, like you, also prefer a photo reproduction deck.
And since I am just learning I want to stick with the deck I feel I'll use the most and become familiar with that one.
But I also bought a Hadar for comparison.

smleite
03-11-2004, 02:00
Thanks, Diana!

Rusty Neon, the Let’s Marseilles group would benefit a lot from your participation.

Silvia

Anna
03-11-2004, 03:14
Rusty, I have had to post Hadar scans for the readings because it is the only Marseille deck that I own.

Well, up until last week when my mini Grimaud arrived :D

It is genuinly meant to be inclusive of all Marseille decks. Many different ones have been used so far. We have had some wonderful disccusions about similarities and differences between cards as they have come up durring the readings.

The whole purpose of the Lets Marseille threads is inclusion. To allow everybody a chance to get to know the Tarot of Marseille.

I do not see creating a seperate space for our threads as potentially excluding people. I think it would make a wonderful complement to the exisiting historical forums.

spoonbender
03-11-2004, 04:34
Originally posted by CharmingPixie
I do not see creating a seperate space for our threads as potentially excluding people. I think it would make a wonderful complement to the exisiting historical forums.
I agree completely, CP. (By the way, it's lovely to see that avatar again :)!)

Jewel-ry
03-11-2004, 05:17
Hello everyone,

I've been away for the past few days so have only just caught up with this thread so thought I would add my two cents worth ;)

From a study point of view, I think keeping the Marseilles readings separate IN SOME FASHION is an excellent idea! It would be so much easier if they could all be together. As it is now, I am having to use the search function all of the time which is just a little inconvenient. That said, I also see the Major Tom's point of view. It may make it somewhat exclusive and that would not be of any benefit to other members. It may just give them another thread NOT to read or participate in.

I quite like the idea of keeping it within the reading exchange but somehow splitting it off.

Rusty ~ As has already been pointed out, owning a Hadar is not a pre-requisite to participating in the Lets Marseilles threads and I agree with others that we could all benefit from your experience in the Marseilles threads. It would be great if you could join us.

~

Satori
03-11-2004, 10:19
Originally posted by Jewel-ry

From a study point of view, I think keeping the Marseilles readings separate IN SOME FASHION is an excellent idea! It would be so much easier if they could all be together. As it is now, I am having to use the search function all of the time which is just a little inconvenient. That said, I also see the Major Tom's point of view. It may make it somewhat exclusive and that would not be of any benefit to other members. It may just give them another thread NOT to read or participate in.

I quite like the idea of keeping it within the reading exchange but somehow splitting it off.

Can we do that?
Can Solandia do that?
Make a separate area in the main exchange?
I'd just like a separate area to play Marseille in....I don't want to exclude anyone, and I don't want to be elitist. I just want our threads together and accessible.

Satori
03-11-2004, 10:20
Originally posted by Diana


Actually, this thread should be in the Suggestions forum and not Technical Support.


I couldn't find the suggestions forum...where is it?

jmd
03-11-2004, 10:35
My personal view (which I have been asked to contribute) is to keep the Marseille readings in the Readings section of the boards.

Of course I would personally favour an exclusively (or near-exclusive) Marseille reading area within that section of the boards - but am not sure as to the further separation into another board, nor whether a sub-section for readings with specified decks adds to the visual complexity of an already quite fullsome board.

I suppose that if it was my decision, I would probably opt for the sub-forum option, and provide 3 subforums for the three popular decks used (and keep the main section for a variety of decks) - the subforums being, in order of deck creation: Marseille-style decks;
WCS-style decks; &
CH-Thoth-style decks.The decision is of course solely Solandia's, and needs to also be seen in the context of the site as a whole, not only the contributors to the section proposed.

This is where Solandia's keen eye has in the past really provided well for a balance between complete coverage and simplicity...

Rusty Neon
03-11-2004, 13:29
Originally posted by CharmingPixie
Rusty, I have had to post Hadar scans for the readings because it is the only Marseille deck that I own.

Well, up until last week when my mini Grimaud arrived :D

It is genuinly meant to be inclusive of all Marseille decks.


Great ... I guess you'll now be able to scan in the Grimaud images.

maria42airam
03-11-2004, 13:58
I just read something interesting that I think addresses our issue.

Sulis posted a sticky in the general/study groups forum concerning the requirements for "separate forum" eligibility for a study group.


Once your group has 10 threads with 100 posts or more it may be elligable for it's own forum.


Now, technically, we are not a study group, we are a reading circle, but -in spirit- we are a group of people pursuing knowledge just like a study group. So I would think the rules would be the same except maybe we would get a sub-group in the Reading Exchange forum instead of our own forum.

If my calculations are correct, we have 33 threads with 503 total posts.

Just a thought :)

Diana
03-11-2004, 18:50
Originally posted by Rusty Neon
Great ... I guess you'll now be able to scan in the Grimaud images.

CharmingPixie has already a lot on her hands organising these new Reading Exchange threads and I think we are all rather impressed with her hard and efficient work, her dedication and enthusiasm.

I think it's a bit unfair to ask CharmingPixie to do all the work for us. But no-one will object if you or someone else scans other pictures, I'm sure. There are also internet links that could be provided.

But most people participating in these threads now do have their own Marseilles decks which they will most likely to refer to as well if they want to study someone else's reading more deeply. For their own readings that they are doing for someone else, they obviously will go along with the deck that they are using, whatever it may be - Fournier, Grimaud, Conver or whatever.

Also, there is a possibility for those people who have a scanner and who know how to use it (which excludes me... I've never figured it out), to make attachments to their posts when they do their readings in these Exchange threads, if they think this will help other people to understand why and wherefore they reached the interpretation they reached.

People will anyway do their readings with the decks they've got and the inspiration, advice and insights they provide is what counts more than anything. Sharing with their reading "partner" what they have intuited with the deck they are using is what is really counts here. We're moving away from the theory of the wonderful Historical threads, into practice. A dream come true.... (for me at least.)

Diana
03-11-2004, 19:32
Originally posted by elf
I couldn't find the suggestions forum...where is it?

Sorry elf! There used to be a Suggestions forum, but I see that Suggestions are now to be put in the Technical forum.

I hadn't realised that.

Major Tom
03-11-2004, 19:41
*expletive deleted*

I would so hate to see a separation - an exclusion.

I do not understand the advantage. Help me understand.

I can only see harm on this path. :(

Anna
03-11-2004, 20:13
Great ... I guess you'll now be able to scan in the Grimaud images.

I would be happy too :) Although I don't know if I can do the whole deck, it took hours last time! But I would be happy to scan relevant cards for those who request them.

Tom, I appreciate how strongly you feel about this.

I personally, would like for us all to reach an agreement of what would be best. An agreement that isn't majority decision making, but includes everyone's views. Please lets NOT vote on this :D Lets keep talking and discussing possible sollutions.

Some of the advantages I see would be practical ones; keeping the threads together to make them more accessible. They have swamped the reading exchange! We could also expand and grow, and have lots of exchanges going on. Through our threads we would build a resource of easy to find infomation about how the Marseille can be read in practice. But I can see how we are doing that anyway, and one just needs to use the search function to find this.

I would be very sad if the threads became exclusive. The whole purpose of them was inclusion! Would people who are new to the Marseille wander into a seperate area and join in as they do now? Or would they pass it by as happens with other forum areas?

This is a group activity that has taken off in a wonderful way. I think its a question of whether or not the reading exchange is now the most suitable place for our group.

Diana
03-11-2004, 20:16
Tom: It is my turn to ask you why you view this as being exclusive.

The Marseilles decks have their own forum already. It would be a logical conclusion to have all Marseilles studies and related studies together.

Due to a lack of reading material in English, Aeclectic is about the only place today where people can learn about the Marseilles. Making a separate group can only aid in this learning process... and indeed, to attract more people onto these boards.... perhaps even French people who speak English who do not have anything like Aeclectic to stroll around in. Can you imagine how the forums could grow and become more GLOBAL if that happened?

And I return again to one of my original reasons which is quite simply tidiness and order.

Major Tom
03-11-2004, 21:33
Originally posted by Diana
indeed, to attract more people onto these boards.... perhaps even French people who speak English who do not have anything like Aeclectic to stroll around in. Can you imagine how the forums could grow and become more GLOBAL if that happened?


At last! A vision I can share. :D

It's simply how to get there upon which we disagree.

What in the present location of the Let's Marseilles threads prevents these people from joining?

How will having a separate board for only Marseilles readings attract more people?

I remember reading a joke list of the type of tarot readers you find at festivals. "Marseilles readers sneer at others for not reading a true tarot." :joke: Naturally, I refuse to believe that could be true. :laugh:

TemperanceAngel
03-11-2004, 21:42
I personally think it would be really sad to have a separate Reading Exchange for the Marseilles.

Unless the Marseilles really is the only true Tarot, and all the rest are Oracles? (joke)

I like Major Tom's suggestion of doing a *SEARCH* and getting all the threads together that way.

I understand that it would be easier for the Study Group, but I must say I am not for the separation. And it feels like separation to me.

Rusty Neon
03-11-2004, 22:26
Originally posted by Diana
The Marseilles decks have their own forum already.

Rather, Marseilles and Other Early Decks have their own forum.

Rusty Neon
03-11-2004, 22:53
For completeness sake, I'd like to point out another option that I don't think anyone has mentioned yet. I'm not championing it. As I am saying, I'm mentioning it for completeness.

Currently the reading area at ATF has two boards: Your Readings and Reading Exchange. Perhaps add a third board - "Reading Circles". This could deal with the concern of various reading circle threads flooding the Reading Exchange board. This could also encourage other reading circles to start up.

Rusty Neon
03-11-2004, 23:00
Originally posted by Diana
Can you imagine how the forums could grow and become more GLOBAL if that happened?

ATF, athough limited to posts being English, is international in its membership! It has members from many countries, on all continents.

There's already a Marseille and Early Tarot decks area to attract non-RWS tarot afficiandos from countries where Marseille and other early tarot decks might be favoured.

lark
04-11-2004, 02:41
Just a suggestion:
A Sticky could be started and all links to Marseilles Circle Readings could be added to it as they are done.
This would make the readings easy to find and tidy, but also keep them in Reading Exchange if that is what is decided.

maria42airam
04-11-2004, 02:47
I am working on that as we "speak."

I'm still not sure why a "reading circle" cannot have the same "courtesy" as a "study group" of being able to organized themselves in their own space.

Diana
04-11-2004, 02:51
maria: I'm sure Solandia will be looking into this for us, and will find a good solution which will accomodate our obvious needs.

maria42airam
04-11-2004, 03:05
thanks Diana.

I wasn't arguing, although I see the tone of my post suggested that. I am just tired from working elections until after midnight last night and being up again this morning for work.

I have learned so much from this reading circle, and I appreciate greatly the time and effort that CP, and everyone, has put into it. I'm just happy to be a part of it and I hope it continues in whatever form it takes.

spoonbender
04-11-2004, 05:05
Like Maria, I do not see what it is that makes a study group so different from a reading circle :confused:. I think the Let's Marseille-threads deserve their own subforum.

IMO, it's rather silly to say that you can use the search option to see all the Let's Marseille threads together - why then are their subforums on ATF at all ;)?

Spoon

TemperanceAngel
04-11-2004, 08:04
A sticky is a great idea lark, another Forum on these already packed boards?

There's been nothing in this thread that has a valid reason thus far, except that it would be easier...

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great idea! But I am not convinced at all.

Solandia is a wise woman, she'll do the right thing ;)

If it's going to be a study group, why not include the sticky in the Marseilles and other early decks forum? Just a thought....

Diana
04-11-2004, 08:13
Originally posted by TemperanceAngel
There's been nothing in this thread that has a valid reason thus far, except that it would be easier...


I think that considering most people involved in the actual group feel the need, that it must be a valid one. We are not inventing our need. It's sprung up from somewhere.

Perhaps it's only those who are actually involved in this new adventure who understand why we need a cosy corner in the Aeclectic living-room to expand and grow. A corner which will always be open to ALL members who wish to join us. There will always a free armchair for anyone.

What puzzles me is why our request would bother anyone. It wouldn't bother me if the Thoth people needed a place for their particular tradition which is so different to the other traditions. :confused:

In fact, I would probably be more tempted to peer over their shoulders and see what they are doing.

A new section won't make the boards more busy or less busy. There will be the same amount of threads regardless. (Actually no, there will possibly be more, seeing as it'll be easier to navigate. And surely that is not a problem.)

HOLMES
04-11-2004, 08:21
for me if it is tarot, it belongs in the tarot reading exchange,
and if it is oracles it belongs in the oracles section.

the marsielles is a tarot,, it can be read with any system of understanding such as toth, and waite understanding along with its own system.

to me that is the heart of tarot and so should stay there to put it aside in its own reading exchange is to say,,
sorry guys the marsielles is the true tarot, waite and crowley don't fit.
if it is a matter of how many people read with the marsielles tarot,, then by that defiantion you can have your own osho zen tarot reading exchange, your own gothic reading exchange forum.

admitteldy when i first started to read the tarot i was like why are they bringing that old ancient relic into the reading exchange when there is more beutiful modern decks ? (i was bais indeed)

i have been reading books for three years now,, and some books while not being focused on the marielles has it in their book the qabalistic tarot, the gareth knight book, as well as the tarot and symbolism book focus on the symbolism of older decks. (i think personality and divination and tarot focuses on the marsilles as well i dont' have that book).

for that matter i wouldn't mean seeing a marsielles tarot book started by your french literature marsielles book learners and tarot masters. you know a systemic system for studying that could be outlined like the tarot basics.. it could be called the tarot foundations.

Little Baron
04-11-2004, 08:25
I havn't been as involved in the 'Let's Marseilles' threads as much as I would have liked to be, but will be back again for round 7.

I do remember though how difficult it was to find the correct threads for the 'Phantasmagoric Theatre Tarot' before a study group was set up. I suppose that the 'Let's Marseilles' being muddled in with the 'Reading Exchange' is pretty similar to the 'Phantasmagoric Studies' being woven in between the 'General Section'. I remember Maan and I being very excited when the study group area for the Phantasmagoric got set up. It was cleaner and much easier to keep a hold on what was happening within the group. As for people not finding it or feeling excluded, it wasn't the case at all, since many new Phantasmagoric lovers found their way into the group; probably a little easier as there was a nice big 'sign post'.

I appreciate everybodies views and hope that a conclusion that suits all comes about soon.

Yabs

Diana
04-11-2004, 08:26
original post deleted

(Am getting frustrated here...)

Holmes: I agree that the Reading Exchange is perhaps not the right place for our sub-section. Which is why I advocated from the start for it to be put into the Marseilles section which already exists.

TemperanceAngel
06-11-2004, 17:12
I think the Marseilles absoulutely deserves its own Study Group area, just not a separate Reading Exchange...

spoonbender
06-11-2004, 20:38
I think the Marseilles absoulutely deserves its own Study Group area, just not a separate Reading Exchange...
TA, why is it again that you feel that the Let's Marseille reading circle doesn't deserve its own subforum? What makes it so different from a Study Group?

Solandia
06-11-2004, 22:49
Nice work on organisation of the Let's Marseille! group.

I can understand the desire to have a separate forum devoted to the topic on the front page, but the Reading Exchange was created for swapping readings with Tarot decks, whether it's Rider-Waite, Marseille, or the Arthurian Tarot. I also think that while the Let's Marseille! threads would be neater in a sub-forum, people would be less likely to find them.

~ Solandia

Diana
06-11-2004, 23:15
:( :( :( :(

Well... we'll just grin and bear it and hope that future developments may give us the space most of us feel we need. Perhaps in the Marseilles forum... where we would feel most comfortable indeed.

Anna
06-11-2004, 23:20
Thank you for taking the time to look into this Solandia :)

TemperanceAngel
07-11-2004, 18:27
TA, why is it again that you feel that the Let's Marseille reading circle doesn't deserve its own subforum? What makes it so different from a Study Group?
Ummm, not meaning to be offensive, I just think we have the Reading Exchange well for, exchanging readings. I feel that for the Marseilles to have it's own reading forum makes it exclusive. And then it would open a huge door for the Thoth reading, RWS reading, Gay Tarot, Tarot of Prague etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

I think the Marseilles Reading Circle is BRILLIANT, I really do...

I DO think Marseilles should have its own Study Group Forum, like some of the other decks or create it in the Historical section? They're just thoughts, not very well formulated ot articulated.

Diana
07-11-2004, 18:59
I DO think Marseilles should have its own Study Group Forum, like some of the other decks or create it in the Historical section? They're just thoughts, not very well formulated ot articulated.

Agree with you that the correct place is not in the Reading Exchange.

We do need our own space though for our threads. It is just not practical having our stuff spread out all over the Reading Exchange. We are not exchanging readings.... we are STUDYING the Tarot of Marseilles by doing readings for each other. It is definitely a quite different thing than just practicing our readings.

Definitely part of our STUDY....

And most frustrating to have to study in a Reading Exchange. It's like being asked to study biology in an art room, or study history in a science laboratory. It is highly inconvenient and does not satisfy the particular needs of our study group.

Jewel-ry
07-11-2004, 19:09
Absolutely Diana!

This little group isn't just about doing readings for each other, its a study of the cards in every sense of the word. For me, going back over the other threads and adding my thoughts etc is a key factor in this study group.

It was much easier to keep track of it when we first started. Now its made very difficult though, because as other threads get added at quite a fast rate, I am sure I miss loads of our readings. Having them altogether would definately make the cards easier to study. This is becoming increasingly evident as we get further and further into what we are doing. Its almost becoming a 'mess' (I mean that in the nicest sense of the word ;)).

Most inconvenient really!

~

TemperanceAngel
07-11-2004, 21:03
Why don't you for now move it from Readings Exchange and into the Marseilles/Historical etc. Forum until is gets sorted properly?

It's a beginning at least...

A beginning for something not new, I like it! There's always new doors to open if we want them to....new doors opening, historical deck...it works you know :D

Diana
07-11-2004, 21:36
Why don't you for now move it from Readings Exchange and into the Marseilles/Historical etc. Forum until is gets sorted properly?


Personally, I would be absolutely thrilled with that solution. I would prefer it not to be a temporary solution though, but a permanent one. :)

Little Baron
07-11-2004, 22:14
Hi all

As already stated, I can see the need for somewhere to house the 'Marseilles' threads away from the rest; especially now that the larger threads are breaking up into many smaller ones for readings - the 'advice' ones being a perfect example.

Could we not have a 'Marseilles' section in the Study Groups section - so that it would be split from the 'Historical' decks. I am very interested in reading about the historical decks but I see the Marseilles as something that stands on it's own. I am sure that whether people were exchanging readings there or asking general enquiries about the Marseilles decks, it would all aid study. The Historical decks could breath a bit better on their own as well and it may encourage more debait in their direction. At the moment, it feels like we are trying to house three different kinds of clashing personalities in a 'one bedroom flat'.

Ignore my comments if they make little sense, hehe. Just trying to help find a solution.

Yabs

Satori
08-11-2004, 02:01
What a conundrum.
Not a study group, not a reading exchange, not a nice quiet little group! I appreciate that Solandia has considered our request, and I warn everyone I'm about to complain. I don't like to complain, however I have company at 2pm today, and trying to hurry and do lots of stuff...

Just came from the Reading Exchange.
Couldn't find the Tango thread, so I gave up and hit another area and went back, found the thread because it got bumped by another participant....

Am looking for other threads too, our Marseille threads, and it was just so time consuming. I gave up after I posted where I needed to and came here to gripe. I only have quick minutes here and there, when the kids are ripping the house apart or napping, and I admit I'm frustrated.

We need a place. Please hear us Solandia.

This isn't elitism for me. It is simply that we want to be in a little nook where we can play the Marseille, and Grow.

I'm off to do a reading in the Exhange about it. One card. I ask everyone to do the same and add their voices to the thread.
Please ask different questions so that we see the issue from multiple angles. Perhaps the Marseille can help us to decide.

tmgrl2
08-11-2004, 04:51
Also...just to add..

Someone just PMd me since there are several reading exchange threads going with the Tarot de Marseille and this person couldn't remember which thread she might still owe a reading.

This alone..if we have a Reading Circle Tarot de Marseille and an Advice for the Week Tarot de Marseille and
a Card for the Day Tarot de Marseille....I feel it would be helpful to have them grouped under a heading, perhaps a sub-heading under Reading Exchange.

I do agree, though, that while it may "put off" some people from "joining in," it may attract the interest of those who wish to lurk for awhile and then, maybe, feel comfortable jumping in and reading.

I would still like to see a piece of cyber-territory for Tarot de Marseille Readings...wherever it goes. Also, in most exchanges, any deck can be used, but those of us who have jumped on board these threads to "practice" using the Tarot de Marseille know that one of the decks from this tradition is to be used.

When I first joined, which was quite recently, I was very intimidated by the level of knowledge of our historians and iconologists re the Tarot de Marseille. I still peruse these threads and occasionally add to them, since I choose to continue to study this tradition. It seemed, though, that few of the people who were posting "study" -type threads were using the cards to do readings here at AT.

This made it even more intimidating to begin using the deck. Diana's advice for the week threads and then the Daily Card and finally, Charming Pixie's Circle...really opened things up for those of us who want to read with the Tarot de Marseille decks. Now we have Diana's Advice for the week with the Tarot de Marseille.

I love that this has happened and hope we can keep it going, but when people are "searching" and PMing each other to find the Reading Threads they are in for the TdM, it seems as though it would be a very pragmatic addition.

My other question is : Does it take anything away from anyone else? It isn't a study group, so it wouldn't belong there. It is a Reading Exchange using a particular tradition.

Just my two cents worth.

terri

Diana
10-11-2004, 18:05
I'm so frustrated... have spent nearly fifteen minutes trying to find a thread that belongs to our Marseille Circle and cannot find it. It must be somewhere.... on the Reading Exchange.

Solandia: When you've finished fixing the glitches of the up-grade, I beg you on my knees to help us rapidly find a way to get our group organised. We cannot continue in the Reading Exchange - it is highly impractical and doesn't serve our purpose at all. We are studying by doing exchanges of readings, but the Study aspect is what we are emphasising.

The Reading Exchange is quite inappropriate for us. It is clear to 99% of our group which is growing... and will continue to grow, of this I am absolutely convinced. This is just the beginning.

We are on top of it "cluttering" up the Reading Exchange and I can imagine that it is getting annoying for people who want to do "normal" reading exchanges. We need a place where we can make a Table of Contents which link to old threads. Lark told me she is willing to moderate the board if you gave it to us.

I'm going to PM someone to ask them to help me find the thread I need, because I'm just about ready to throw my cup of coffee on my computer out of frustration.

*Diana goes down on her knees and prays that the Aeclectic Goddess hears her plea*

jmd
10-11-2004, 18:51
I have read through a number of Let's Marseilles threads, and can see how the Reading Exchange is not totally appropriate, as it is not, in many ways, part of either exchange nor offers.

On the other hand, in my personal view, nor is the History and Iconography section of the Forums.

Likewise, it seems as though the Study Area is not the appropriate area either...

Certainly, it speaks from the Marseille tradition (which is an impulse which both antedates and postdates any specific deck one may point to).

I am not certain, as I have said, what the solution is - and in any case is not my prerogative - It is interesting, however, that quite a number of Marseille specific threads have made their way into the readings exchange area, in a way by default.

The Marseille Iconographic Study certainly has its own area (which includes studies on other early decks if appropriate). As does Tarot history. The practice of the reading with a Marseille, as a study, does lack specific home. Finding a most appropriate way to ease its organisation, which may or may not be by a new area, is of course what needs to be carefully considered and determined... with the health of the whole Forums at heart.

Diana
10-11-2004, 19:49
jmd: I hear you.

Personally, I don't care which section it gets put into, an already existing one, or even a brand new one. Our Practical Study can even get put in a dusty cup-board somewhere - as long as there's a light bulb inside so we can see our cards (because it only takes one tarologist to change a light-bulb).

All I want is a room somewhere,
Far away from the cold night air
With one enormous chair
Oh, wouldn't it be loverly.

Lots of chocolate for me to eat
Lots of coal makin' lots of heat
Warm face, warm hands, warm feet
Oh wouldn't it be loverly.

Satori
10-11-2004, 22:00
Lark told me she is willing to moderate the board if you gave it to us.

Hi there Solandia, Diana and Lark,
I would be willing to help moderate that board.
I'm not sure what it entails, and I wouldn't want to do it alone...eek...but I'd be willing to help with the Marseilles Readings Board.

Thanks,
elf

smleite
10-11-2004, 22:13
I absolutely agree with this idea of a proper place for Marseilles Practical Study, as in Diana’s expression. Don’t like the idea of exclusivity, but ours is a STUDY GROUP. I couldn’t imagine a separation between Marseilles and other early decks (the historical decks), because it is almost impossible to discuss an historical deck without turning to the Marseilles in some occasion, and vice-versa. But what we have here is a Marseilles Study Group; it doesn’t menace the integrity of the Marseilles and Other Early Decks Forum, and it doesn’t menace the accessibility of the Reading Exchange threads. On the contrary, its presence in this latter Forum could induce in error any person looking for a “simple” reading exchange, since the rest of the participants, I dare to say, are really involved in using this exchanges as an instrument of active study in every sense of the word, and certainly expect feedback of it. Now, we all know that this is not exactly about academic, iconographical study (and still…). But, in the absence of a better solution, I personally wouldn’t mind seeing our groups (of ALL of us, Aecletians) among the other Study Groups.

Solandia
10-11-2004, 22:20
A separate Marseilles group is under consideration. Your patience is appreciated, as there are a number of forum issues requiring my attention at present.

~ Solandia

Solandia
17-11-2004, 23:21
Hi everyone,

I've been thinking on the various suggestions, and will open a trial sub-forum for the Let's Marseille! group in the Reading Exchange. This area will be for the Marseilles Readings Circle and other readings using the Marseilles deck, while in-depth study of imagery and iconography etc can still be posted in the existing Marseilles & Other Early Decks forum.

The new forum will be open shortly.

~ Solandia

Satori
17-11-2004, 23:23
WoooooooooooooHooooooooooooo!

Solandia thank you, a thousand thanks!!!!!!!!!!!

Happy Dance!!

smleite
18-11-2004, 00:04
Thank you, thank you, both for the solution and for the precious time you found to dedicate us!

Silvia

Anna
18-11-2004, 01:26
Thank you so much Solandia! This is wonderful news :)

Jewel-ry
18-11-2004, 02:12
Oh wow!

This is wonderful news Solandia, thank-you so much.

:)

spoonbender
18-11-2004, 03:09
THANK YOU, Solandia! This is great to hear :D!!

Diana
18-11-2004, 03:52
I like the idea of a trial sub-forum.

Great solution. Thank you Solandia. :)

tmgrl2
18-11-2004, 10:03
Thank you so much, Solandia, for the "trial" Marseille Reading Forum!

terri

Hopefully, we will all make it a safe place to visit and read with a Marseille deck and try out our wings....with much support from each other.

Rusty Neon
18-11-2004, 10:06
Good move, Solandia. I understand that the Let's Marseilles threads were plugging up the Reading Exchange and frustrating other users on the Exchange.

Solandia
21-11-2004, 23:48
The Let's Marseille! area is now open, and its threads are being moved across.

http://www.tarotforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=95

~ Solandia

fyreflye
22-11-2004, 02:08
-delete-

tmgrl2
22-11-2004, 02:47
fyreflye...I'm not sure that the link you gave is the complete one??

The one that Maria scanned in...although it's the Hadar has a complete set of 78 cards...

I'm sure as we go along, some willing soul will perhaps scan in another deck or two. We could use a Camoin, perhaps a Grimaud...but it takes LOTS of time to scan in 78 cards, one by one...so although I have a scanner and can scan in a Camoin or Grimaud card if I use it, others may have neither deck nor scanner and appreciate that complete list.


Actually, I read mostly with the Hadar. It's just my personal preference, so I really appreciate being able to go the list and just cut and paste. I can understand, though, that if your favorite deck is another, you may wish to have the picture from the deck you used scanned in.

When I retire, if someone is using another deck for a reading and doesn't have a scanner and I have the deck, I would be willing to track the readings as CP and Maria have and "tack on" the cards to the thread if they have been pulled from a different deck.

Also, if it hasn't been done, perhaps I will create a thread and scan in one whole deck...the Camoin, perhaps or the Grimaud.

Right now, time isn't on my side to be involved.

We'll get there! We got a sub-forum!

Thank you, Solandia.

I think, too, that as we go along and gain confidence in our readings, there will be less of a desire to jump into another reading done by other people to add to it or change it even for "schooling" purposes. Some may wish to have the reading stay within their own group of two or three for the week or even for a daily card pulled for oneself.

For those that still want that input, perhaps they could state it, or conversely, indicate that you would prefer feedback from only those within your own reading...which may include yourself and one or two other people.

I'm hoping that this will encourage many more people to jump in and read trusting their intuition, asking for input if they wish it.

An example of an absolutely startling, yet wonderful take on a card was when Gardener, in our group of three, read her first card and, after describing the whole card in detail, said, she kept seeing that BIG X...saying:


"Don't do it!" That kind of intuitive aha! is what we are all hoping to see as we go along ...and I'm sure it will bring on board those who may feel somewhat unsure about reading with the Tarot de Marseille lest they "make a mistake."


I'm sure that as the Circle evolves and new threads open, all of this will get sorted out lovingly and with a spirit of learning and study.

Blessings,
terri

maria42airam
22-11-2004, 03:01
May I suggest that the Marseille saved images thread: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=32998 be made a sticky?

The Reading Circle card images thread contains the links to all the card images that CP scanned for use by those that do not have a deck.

The scanned images is the "working area." where those images were originally posted. If we deleted the original posts, then the links would disappear, so Lark moved them.

tmgrl2
22-11-2004, 03:06
Thanks, Maria...for the explanation!

So...at least we have the wonderful work of the 78 scans you gave us as a sticky in the beginning!

Appreciate all the hard work on CP's and on your part in getting this all done.

terri

Rusty Neon
22-11-2004, 03:08
While the Let's Marseille circle is wonderful for those who are drawn to it, let's not forget about supporting the Marseille and Other Early Decks board, which, by the way, is predominantly about the Tarot de Marseille rather than other early decks. That board is available for all members of ATF who study and work with the Tarot de Marseille, whether they're actively involved in the Let's Marseille circle or not. That board is where the ATF Marseille community as a whole meets. Sadly (or happily, for some), that board has been less populated with new posts and new threads since the start-up of the Let's Marseille circle, since general discussions are also taking place at the Let's Marseille circle. I am hopeful that the new people who are starting to take an interest in the Tarot de Marseille will visit and use the Marseille and Other Early decks board. I would suggest that any questions or general insights be posted to that board for the mutual benefit of the ATF Marseille community as a whole.

Alta
22-11-2004, 07:47
May I suggest that the Marseille saved images thread: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=32998 be made a sticky?Okay, it is Stuck. Let me know if this becomes not wanted.

Moongold
22-11-2004, 10:15
Are all Marseilles readings to be directed to the Marseilles sub forum now?

What if this is not wanted by the reader/querent?

Rusty Neon
22-11-2004, 10:48
Are all Marseilles readings to be directed to the Marseilles sub forum now?

What if this is not wanted by the reader/querent?

In view of the fact that Solandia has named the trial new subforum by the specific name "Let's Marseille" rather than something more generic like "Marseilles Readings", I would presume that threads would not be moved from the general Reading Exchange to the Let's Marseille subforum unless the thread is entitled Let's Marseille (or Lets Marseille) or is otherwise unambiguously intended by the thread-starter to be part of the Let's Marseille series of threads.

Satori
22-11-2004, 12:44
Thank you Solandia.
The new, trial Sub-Forum is quite wonderful.

Truly, your solution is marvelous and I am delighted with the outcome.

Thanks to Lark and Marion for Moderating the forum. It is my hope that we will not provide either of you with too many additional headaches! :)

Alta
22-11-2004, 21:15
Thanks to Lark and Marion for Moderating the forum. It is my hope that we will not provide either of you with too many additional headaches!I would doubt that. It apears to be a pretty cheerful group. I am glad to be working with lark.

lark
23-11-2004, 01:03
Thank you Marion.
I'll be fun to share the bunk house with you for a little while.
I wasn't home yesterday and when I got back just like magic!!!!! all the threads were moved.
Thank you so much for sharing your time to help out with the new sub forum.

TemperanceAngel
24-11-2004, 08:44
TA pops her head in to give the thumbs up to the new Sub-Forum and to thank Solandia for it and to say "HI" to the moddies, lark whom I know and Marion, whom I don't!

Alta
24-11-2004, 09:17
You are welcome lark! This is clearly a busy group, lots of great threads.

I'll join the next round of readings.