Naming the Courts

[Little Baron]

Hopefully, you won't fall off of your chairs when you read this post.

At the moment, I am reading 'Understanding the Tarot Court' by Mary K. Greer and Tom Little.

I used this book with the Grimaud before. I thought that the Marseille cards would be very difficult to pull personality from but I was very wrong; I still think of them now and they are full of personality and one court group I know the best from all of my decks.

The other deck's court that stand out is the 'Phantasmagoric' court. Of course, it is not hard to confuse the folks from the Phantasmagoric amongst each other as physically, they are all so different and are brimming with life anf personality. Also, as a credit to Cameron (the decks designer), remembering them is made a little easier by the fact that they all have their own names. 'The Knight of Swords' becomes 'Tom Tom'. There is Madame Lola, Sebastian and Fabian, to name a few.

I was just thinking ... this is where you laugh at me ... in studing the 'Ancient Italian' as I am now, would it not help to give them names? Obviously, when reading for others, I wouldn't say 'you have drawn Ann, the 'Regina Di Coppe' (Queen of Cups), but I thought that if I gave them names that related to people that I have met or know of, maybe it would help me to get to know them when they pop up in my tarot court studies.

For example, the 'Regina Di Spade' (Queen of Swords) shows the independence, efficiency, strength and sometimes cold and stubborness of my friend, Jackie. As I look at this card now, I can even see elements of my good friend's physicality in that of the queen. Therefore, I could name this woman as 'Jaqueline'. The Queen of Cups from the 'Grimaud' often reminds me of my mother - again, the caring and receptive side, along with the slightly nervous posture of this woman from the Grimaud is very much like my own mum. The pretty but slightly dopey 'Knight of Cups' from the Grimaud, I likened to my friend Sam in a previous court card thread - my friend Sam is very handsome, enigmatic, charming, but at times, can lack the maturity of the king.

In decks such as the 'Ancient Italian', the 'Soprafino' and many of the Marseilles and early decks do look alike, so I was wondering if actually naming them may help my remembering them each time that they arise.

What does anyone here think???????

Yabs (a possible Knight of Wands)

[Little Baron]

An example -

Regina Di Coppe - Charlotte-Ann
Lady Lorelei, in her book ‘Tarot Life Planner’, likens the Queen to the mother. I have also heard of her connected to the Empress card. She is receptive to peoples needs and gives as much as she can - nurturing, parental, emotional, tender, caring, accepting. I always see this card as my mother (Shirley-Ann) and I see the Empress in many decks as Charlotte, so it seems fitting to combine the names and give this Queen both of their personalities. Looking at Charlotte-Ann, there is a warmth in her eyes and I can see both my mother and my friend in her. Both of them have been very supportive to me in hard times and have offered good advice and looked after me.

Just by naming this queen, I am looking at her differently than I am when I look at the other courts of the Ancient Italian, whom I feel I have not been introduced to yet. Her eyes really engage me. I don't see her completely as the her two namesakes but an air of them both hang around her. It is a nice feeling.

[April]

I think it's a fine idea. I've come across many exercises where you relate the court cards to people in your own life. I think that I would probably keep those names to myself though. First, it probably won't mean anything to the person you're reading for. Second, I could foresee problems if you were reading for me and I thought I knew Ann and I disagreed with you about her personality. Third, you might find that you want to change the names somewhere down the road if you meet someone who fits better.

Peace,
April

[Little Baron]

Thanks April. I won't mention the names to anybody else. It is just a way of getting to know them, since in this deck, a lot of the courts do look alike. If I can relate to them more as people, I thought it might be easier. As I look at 'Charlotte-Ann' now, she is beginning to form her own personality and will do as I work with her. Because the people I named her after are very similar to the characteristics of this queen (of course, they have other sides as well), it just helps me remember the essense of her personality - or at least, the part that relates to her suit and rank.

Just wondering how I am going to name the 'King of Swords' 'Karen', hehehe.

Yabs

[lunakasha]

Originally posted by Yaboot
Just wondering how I am going to name the 'King of Swords' 'Karen', hehehe.

Who....ME??? King of Swords??? Naaaah.....:P LOL!!!!

But seriously Yabs....I think this is an excellent idea, and I have read in certain books (maybe even MK Greer's) that it is helpful to associate the courts with people you know. Makes sense to me, although I have never tried it with various decks, as you are doing. Maybe I should though....the courts always give me a MAJOR headache....for example, even if I am able to associate them with actual people I know, then I still need to determine whether the court represents an actual PERSON in the reading or an aspect of the querent's personality.....see what I mean??? ;)

:) Luna

[Little Baron]

Originally posted by lunakasha
Who....ME??? King of Swords??? Naaaah.....:P LOL!!!!



Hehehe. I don't see you as the 'King of Swords' Luna. But I do have another friend called Karen who could either be the King or Queen of that suit. I just looked at the Queen in this deck and it fits her well. There is a strong sense of responsibility in my other friend Karen; she is very strong, at home and at work, and can often come across as insensitive and sometimes cold. The Queen here fits her well because she faintly touches her heart. It is almost as if she is showing that she can be tender and loving (Karen is a great mother of twins), even if sometimes she holds that sword up like a barrier and doesn't let many people through.

When she comes into a reading, I can obviously see that the querant could be this queen (have some characteristics of Karen) or could be working with or against a woman or man that is similar to her. It could also mean that maybe someone needs to adopt these characteristics to make themselves heard or on the reverse side of things, that sword is getting in the way of them actually receiving useful and important messages. Maybe it is trying to find a balance between the sword and the heart, which I think is often an issue for my friend.

All hail 'Queen Karen'!!!


Yabs

[Nevada]

I haven't done this, but I like the idea. I tend to name "things". Our truck has a name, but already had it on a little metal plate when we bought it.

If naming a truck makes sense, then why not the personalities we see in the court cards? I will likely take a look at my court cards as I use them now and think about names.

So, you give them different names depending on which deck you're using--do I understand that right?

I especially find the Thoth and Crystal Tarot courts to have distinct personalities.

Nevada

[Little Baron]

The Phantasmagoric already had names and I think that that was what got me started on this. Knowing that 'Tom Tom', the Knight of Swords was a mischievous little guy and a little about his background within the Phantasmagoric Theatre helped me a lot to get the essence of his personality when reading. He is naughty but it also allowed me to try and understand why; to flip the coin and often feel sensitive towards him.

I havn't named cards from any other deck but when using the Grimaud, I could see simularities between the characters and people I know. Sometimes, people that I don't know show themselves in the courts. Even though I named the 'Regina Di Spade' 'Karen', I could also see 'Madonna' and her public persona within the figure. I feel sensitive to the queen because I can understand from both of those people the strengths and weeknesses that they both have and how they can be negatively perceived as well as favourably.

Because this deck is a new one to me, I just thought that naming them would be a way of introducing myself to the court. They woulod be more like 'friends' than just nameless figures that give me that 'headache' that Luna mentioned.

The Queen of Cups and Queen of Swords were quite easy as the people they have been named after came straight to mind but looking at the other two queens, I think that a little more research and time spent with the cards is needed as names do not flow quite so easily with them.

Even if it is something that is only part of my introductory studies with the 'Ancient Italian', I think that it will help me get to know the deck, even if the names fall away further into the journey. It is like the first layer of a painting; more layers, I am sure will build over it, until hopefully, I will have a good idea and understanding of each court figure. I am looking forward to seeing how they react and interact to each other. Charlotte-Ann already has her back turned to Queen-Karen, hehe.

Yabs

[lunakasha]

Originally posted by Yaboot
Hehehe. I don't see you as the 'King of Swords' Luna. But I do have another friend called Karen who could either be the King or Queen of that suit.

Hehehehe!!!! :P

I didn't think you were talking about me....just being a smart-***!!! :D:D:D

I think I am going to try this exercise with a specific deck and see what/who I come up with....I do tend to associate certain courts with people I know, but some of them are tricky, especially the pages, or determining if a male fits more into the "knight" or "king" role....

:) Queen Luna

[Little Baron]

Hey Queen Luna

I have named three this evening; the third being 'Samuel', the 'Knight of Cups'. Let me know how it goes if you do this exercise. Would be very interested to know.

Best wishes and nite nite Queenie!

Yabs (off to his royal bed)

[lunakasha]

Yes indeed, Prince Yabs....:)

I am going to give it a try in the morning....just gotta decide on a deck (always agonizing for me, hehehe!!!)

Will post the results here....should be interesting!!!

Goodnight to you too....

:) Luna/Queenie (hehehe....too funny)

[Mesara]

I try to relate all the tarot cards to people in my life, just to give me a better understanding of the card and it's meanings. I started just doing it with the courts because I was becoming frustrated with interpreting them and relating them to everyday life. When I found that associating them with people I know worked for me, I went on to do the same with the rest of the deck. Of course, I don't know 78 people that I can relate directly to tarot cards, so not every card has a designated person matched with it. :)

[Tarot Sparrow]

I actually really like your idea Yaboot! Very clever :) I may try it.

[Kit]

Wonderful idea, Yaboot! I must try it...I can think of some names already!
But why would we laugh at you for naming your courts? after all, no one laughed at me when I named my violin, pencilcase, stereo and washing machine. Well, they didn't laugh much...
Off to name my rider waite!
Raeven

[Moonbow*]

This came fairly naturally to me with my first deck,

While journalling the courts I related them to people I know and I still think of them in that way now. I think it's the best way to get to know the courts and remember the personality of the card itself.

[Diana]

Yaboot: I did this in the beginning when I was a newcomer to Tarot.

I stopped soon though, because I realised that it was limiting. There was a danger that I would put a label on the cards that I would be unable to move out from.

A little like the difficulty people have when they move from illustrated minors to unillustrated minors. They find it hard to get those images out of their minds and move to a different dimension.

The danger is that one doesn't see the full scope of the card if one gives names to it. The same problem with those keywords that one can find in some tarot decks.

But for a brand new newcomer to Tarot, it can be a very useful springboard but I wouldn't advise to stay too long on the springboard....

(In my son's old school (public school), instead of teaching the kids what a Direct Object was, or an Indirect Object, they would call them "green groups" and "yellow groups". It was the stupidest method I have ever seen, and has done him a GREAT dis-service.

Now that he's in a proper school which teaches him proper grammar, he is really finding it quite confusing when it comes to learning Latin and German - and also his own language which is French - to understand what these grammatical terms really refer to. I have to spend time with him now to try and REMOVE the stupid old green and yellow labels from his brain, and teach him what a simple, plain and easy INDIRECT object is.)

[Little Baron]

I totally agree Diana. At first, I wasn't even thinking of naming them after people that had similar personalities; just giving them names so they had a personality I could greet whenever I saw them. Just kind of looking into their faces and wondering 'who' they were. What names would they have and what personality would they be? I think that these labels would soon disappear. It is just a way of trying to get to know sixteen people in one go; which is difficult when they all look so alike.

I am sure that in working with the court, in readings and study, each member will let me know exactly what they are like in time, hehe.

Thankyou all for your comments and suggestions.

Yabs

[firemaiden]

The Marseille courts DID have names at least for a while, according to Paul Huson, Mystical Origins of the Tarot. Why has no one mentioned this before? I think I'll start a new thread on it...

Naming of the Court cards (http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?p=672407#post672407)

[Amaterasu]

The Marseille courts DID have names at least for a while, according to Paul Huson, Mystical Origins of the Tarot. Why has no one mentioned this before? I think I'll start a new thread on it...

Naming of the Court cards (http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?p=672407#post672407)

I was about it to mention it, although I only know the names of the kings. I looked at your thread and wow, I had no idea that the queens and pages had names, too. Thanks for bringing it up; it's really useful. :)

I make associations between court cards and historical figures. For example, Fidel Castro and Napoleon reminds me of the King of Swords and Princess Diana of the Queen of Pentacles. But, as Diana already said, it's limiting. Now I only refer to the court cards by name (and then describe that historical figure and his personality) when I am stuck and have nothing to say. :|