When major planets make no aspects...

hi!
I have been studying a few charts lately, and I have this question: What does it mean when a major planet makes no aspects?

for example:
- when in a natal chart the Sun makes no significant aspect with anything
- when in a composite chart, the Sun makes no aspect with anything
- when in a natal chart, Mars and Venus make no aspect.

If the question is too general, please let me know...
thanks!

Hi M-Press,

This is a good question and I wish I had a simple answer. In fact there are a number of approaches. One that is quite common in natal charts is to interpret the lack of major aspects as an indicator that the particular aspect of character represented by the planet is poorly integrated into the overall persona. Thus a person with no major aspects to Venus might be seen as having difficulty expressing their need to relate to others. That isn't to say that they can''t relate at all - far from it - simply this aspect is not well integrated with the rest.

Clearly how far you go along with such an interpretation depends on the extent to which you take a psychological approach. It also depends on the importance you give to major aspects. Again I don't wish to imply that these are unimportant - far from it. However if you believe that aspects are more important than say, house rulerships, or location in the chart (such as being angular) you are likely to 'weaken' a planet that has no major aspect, more than you would if you took house rulership and chart location to be more important than major aspects.

There's also the issue of whether a planet with no major aspect is more debilitated than a planet with a number of oppositions and squares. It's quite possible to argue that the lack of contacts is at least as debilitating, if not more debilitating because that energy lacks any channel for expression.

In other branches of Astrology the lack of aspect may be important for another reason - In horary for example if the planet is a significator of say the querent and it makes no major aspect to the planet signifying the questied then it's unlikely that the outcome being considered will come to pass.

How to deal with no aspects

M-Press, when dealing with any chart you have to work with what it offers. Your primary question dealt with a "lack of aspects". It is rare to find a chart withfew aspects; perhaps you ought to consider running some harmonic charts -- 4th, 5th, 7th, 9th for example. This approach would bring up a chart that did have significant relationships between certain planets. The problem is, as Minderwiz hinted at, we some times only see aspects as consisting of squares, trines, sextiles, conjunctions, oppositions, etc. There are a lot of other aspects -- we just have to know how to interpret them.

In interpreting planets having a 5th harmonic pattern (72 degrees or multiples thereof) we can use phase relationship theory to understand how a 1/5 harmonic aspect is different from a 2/5 harmonic relationship. The same would hold true for seventh harmonics, or other aspects. Now, this is something that most beginning and intermediate astrology students are not aware of. If you do a harmonic study and find one of the harmoics to be of significance then we can help you explore this "new" tool.

Another approach to your problem chart is to simply use mid-points. Equal arcs between planets always generate or result in significan mid-point structures. These can be read using Ebertins Combinations of Stellar Influences (CSI) -- the mid-point handbook, or any of the Uranian reference books which expand on Ebertin's theorys. Believe me, you will always find more mid-points then you need in any chart.

Then, there is a seldom-used but useful approach, Planetary Containments. We have done these a year or so ago here on AT. Any chart can be read using containments -- and you can read these right from the chart without having to do anything special. Intepreting Containments is similar to a degree to mid-points.

So, there are several approaches that can be taken to addressing a chart that appears to have no aspects. You just have to have reached a point where you are equally at home with one approach or one of several/many other approaches. If we can get you started along any of these lines, just ask us. Dave.

As I think I have stated before, I tend no to use minor aspects in my overall chart analysis but I will use them when looking at some part of the chart in depth. I must admit that I misread M-Press' original post and took it as major aspect rather than major planet. Like Dave, I would look for minor aspects in such a situation and as he says, it is rare to find no aspect at all.

That being said, the main point stands, how you intrepret this situation really lies in your view of the importance of aspects and connections between planets. The more you see these as the primary indicators of Astrology then the more you will be concerned about any planet that doesn't have aspects.

Again, as Dave mentioned there are a wealth of techniques that you could use, he mentions a few and I'd also add the use of parallel and contraparallels (aspects of declination) and the ancient technique of Antiscia, where planets are equal distances either side of the Solstice line (treated a benign aspect) and their counterparts, Contrantiscia (where the planet is in opposition to the Antiscion point and treated as a hard aspect). There is also the use of the so-called Arabian Parts, such as the Part of Fortune (which links Sun, Moon and Ascendant). You may well find that a planet without aspects still plays a role in a 'Part', though amongst most Astrologers this technique as dropped out of favour.

However, which ever techniques you end up trying, don't forget that you can come up with an interpretation of how a planet expresses itself through it's location in the chart - by sign and house and angularity. The other techniques may lead you to modify this interpretation but they are unlikely to change it entirely.

Thank you both for such rich answers...
it's funny, but I never saw myself as choosing a style which I prefer to use regarding astrology, but I mostly use what is available: eg: I have learned a lot by reading all the interactive charts in astro.com. Then I also cross that reference with all the books I have- which are not incredibly advanced, although i'm expanding. The stuff that i have been learning through you guys in the past year and a half, has been amazing in showing me how many different ways there are, and opening up the possibilities for me, but I'm still not comfortable enough in using them, especially since my studies are constantly affected by regular "life weather"...

Now as an "astrologer" (who has not decided what approach to take), i do use signs and houses, because those i understand. I also use rulerships, and composite charts. Angularities, I'm not sure I know what it is, although I see it mentioned a lot (so maybe I know what it is, just don't know this is what it's called).

Regarding to my question, I just thought that no aspects to the Sun, must be an important point. I have met a few people with no major aspects to the Sun (but minor yes), and I do feel that they totally flow, without going in any specific direction, without affecting their destinies, just trying to "be" as comfortably as they can, without exercising much ambition. I definitely don't judge that btw, if anything, I envy it sometimes.

On the same note, i'm wondering what it does when one's Sun squares most of the major planets, without any other aspects.

Should I trust the charts in astro.com to see all the aspects? Could it be that it shows no aspects at all, but there might exist some?

Let's say in a composite chart, the Sun has a couple of Quincunxes and a Quintile. (I don't know what these aspects are-they are marked in green, unlike the rest that are red/blue). Does the lack of more significant aspects say anything?

and yet, of course Dave's advice as to you have to use what the chart does offer, seems more than a good idea.
I 'm not familiar with harmonic charts-at all. maybe that's an interesting thing to investigate.

It has taken me ages to post this, I keep reading all your info again, and of course I'm a bit overwhelmed. Will keep digesting...
thank you!

hi M-Press,

To try and answer some of your questions;

Angularity is usually interpreted to be a conjunction with Ascendant, or MC, or IC or Descendant. Exactly what orb to take is debatable but as a point has no moiety, about 5 degrees is a reasonable orb.

Traditional Astrologers would have been a little more relaxed, a planet in the first, fourth, seventh or tenth would have been 'in an angle' (though not treated as being conjunct to that angle. Indeed we still label the first, fourth, sevent and tenth as 'angular' houses.

Sun square most of the major planets gives a strong drive to express one's self, especially if Mars is involved. You wiould modify this interpretation depending on the Sun's position by sign and house.

I've not done a thorough investigation of astro.com but I only trust charts I've done/checked myself. By the same token I expect others to check any chart that I've given them. We all make mistakes and hours spent over a chart which turns out to be erroneous does not give a good feeling.

Most computer programs use red lines for oppositions and squares and blue lines for trines and sextiles. Minor aspects, though are not as standardised. The Green line though shows that these are minor aspects. The quincunx or 'inconjunct aspect' (an oxymoron) is 150 degrees, the quintile is 72 degrees. There a relatively small but vociferous group who argue that the quincunx should be treated as a major aspect. The quincunx is a hard aspect, often characterised as an annoying background irritation just below the level of cosnciousness. The Quintile is claimed to be a harmonious aspect which says something about the area of life in which you can excel or achieve good fortune (not necessarily in the monetary sense).

Harmonic charts really require an Astrology program which has these inbuilt, as the mathematics can become tedious, if not complex. Basically a harmonic is derived by dividing the 360 degrees of the zodiac by a number from 1 upwards. In a harmonic chart planets that have a separation by the resulting number of degrees show up as 'conjunct'. Thus if you take a third harmonic chart )120 degrees) two planets in trine in the original chart will now show up as being conjunct. If you take a fifth harmonic, planets that are in quintile aspect will show up as being conjunct. One use of it is to 'hunt' for possible aspects, as they show up clearly in the harmonic chart. So if you want to know if there are any planets in septile aspect you simply construct the seventh harmonic chart. A good book to read in John Addey's Harmonics in Astrology where he discusses the usage and meaning of harmonic relationships.

Unaspected Planets

First, I was wondering what orbs you were using for the Ptolemeic aspects?

That said, unaspected planets tend to be mavericks, and the part of the consciousness they represent tends to act independantly of other functions of the psyche (i.e. other planets). This can work for good or for ill, depending on how good your relationship is with that planet. The planet is single -- a freelance operative who wouldn't even think to consult another planet. This lack of hinderance (and help) can lead the planet to do great things -- or get into a whole lot of trouble. The choice, as always lies with the individual.

An unaspected Sun would indicate a point of view and sense of one's self and feeling of importance (or lack thereof) that is truly unaffected by other people, belief systems, the limits of reality, new information, passionate urges, a need to break rules/routine, the collective "mood", or the arisal of inner demons.

An unaspected Mars would represent unmitigated passion and drive (or lack) it's area of the chart.

An unaspected Venus would be little tricker...Venus likes company...but it would tend to isolate artisitc and social matters into their own little compartment in life. The issues would be distinctly Venusian (and the nature of the House & Sign).

Which brings up an important point. *All* planets are modified by their House and Sign. So, for example, Uranus an 8th house Uranus in Libra is going to *feel* a lot like it's in conjunction to Venus and Pluto. The fear of loss of one's true self in relationships, especially life-mate type relationships and the resulting desire to rebel and break away from established rules (or any rules) and conventions is going to come into play at some point (multiple points) in that person's life.

Also look to minor aspects (a lack of any aspects is indeed rare), which are tricky in themselves, for important clues on the nature of that planet's impact on the overall psyche.

-Voron

A differing view

Voron said:

Which brings up an important point. *All* planets are modified by their House and Sign. So, for example, Uranus an 8th house Uranus in Libra is going to *feel* a lot like it's in conjunction to Venus and Pluto.

Click to expand...

I would tend to not consider a planet in a sign and house to express itself as if it had the strength of a conjunction with the associated ruling (sign/house) planets. Now, this is only my opinion. That is not to say that some charts might warrant this view, but I feel that most charts would not be seen quite that way.

I have noticed your recent join date. We tend to have lively discussions here but we never flame anyone so please don't take my views as anything but my views. Welcome to our list, we always can use another astrologer-type on this tarot forum. Some of us even feel we can work either side of the fence. See you around. Dave

Welcome Voron.

I think you've given an eloquent answer to M-Press' original question and expressed the psychological view of Astrology clearly. I hope you will continue to post your ideas, as I'm sure Dave does.

You will find that Dave and I occasionally disagree with each other and both of us enjoy the lively discussions that follow. We also tend to approach Astrology from different directions, I take a traditional line, Dave has his own take on modern Astrology. We hope you will join in with these discussions.

I'd certainly agree with your point about planets being modified by sign and house. One way of taking this into consideration is the Astrological Alphabet that you use - 8th House = Scorpio = Pluto and this is used both by beginners and many professionals. My own views on this particular approach do tend to line up with Dave - I don't take a planet in the 8th to be similar to a conjunction with Pluto (for one thing I'm a dreadful recidivist who believes Mars rules Scorpio and sign rulership is nothing to do with affinity).

But discussing the reasoning behind interpretations is one of the things that we are keen on here, and differing views enable us to think our own approaches out in a clearer manner - Welcome to the forum

M-Press, you can check out harmonic charts in astro.com if you think some aspects might not be showing up... For example, if there is a quintile b/w two planets, and you choose the 5th harmonic chart, you will see those planets in a conjunction.

I know astro.com does show the semi-square, quincunx and quintile and yes, they are marked in different colours but I can't remember which is which offhand. They'll also have the info in the aspect chart below.

As for sun only making squares, I would see those as drivers in the chart generally. This is actually a bit like my chart. My sun's only aspects are squares to a Jupiter-Saturn conjunction. Do drop me an e-mail if you'd like to chat more about this