PDA

View Full Version : What happened to the Study Group page


souljourney
20-02-2005, 22:29
I went to the study group page...usually it lists a bunch 15 or so) of existing groups, RW, Thoth, Gothic, etc..
This morning it showed 4 groups....Gay, Fey, Fairie oracle and Tarot of Prague. What happened??

Alta
20-02-2005, 22:50
RWS and Thoth have been moved to the Historical section; have not not seen the others yet.

Solandia
20-02-2005, 23:02
All the posts and threads are still there - some of the less active study groups have been merged back into the main Tarot Study Groups forum.

~ Solandia

Diana
20-02-2005, 23:03
RWS and Thoth have been moved to the History section;

Indeed, so they have.... And jmd approves of this?

Does anyone have any GOOD news to tell me?

Fulgour
20-02-2005, 23:25
Looking :) Good

contrascarpe
20-02-2005, 23:57
I noticed Sulis has a sticky for the various indexes of the Study Groups. Some are missing I assume because the groups themselves had been stickies before. Is there anyway to update this to include the indexes of those groups? I like to refer to the Margarete Petersen from time to time and this makes it easier.

Dan

Alissa
21-02-2005, 00:31
What a shame to lose such quality organization. Now those threads/groups are as good as lost, they're too hard to find in the grand scheme of things to stay active, or be read within this massive Groups forum.

I'm really sorry to see this happen.

Fulgour
21-02-2005, 00:46
I've been browsing, and it's quite easy
to find a thread ~ just use the search.

contrascarpe
21-02-2005, 00:54
I've been browsing, and it's quite easy
to find a thread ~ just use the search.

Yes, but I think Alissa's point is that new members or new owners of these decks won't gravitate to them now and perhaps give them the chance to become active again. People are less likely to post in them if they have to search them out.

Solandia, why was this done? If it is a bandwidth issue, then I certainly understand. However, this feels the same as when a Tarot deck falls on the floor - the cards are all there, but scattered and it just feels so ..... disorganized.

Alissa
21-02-2005, 01:15
I've been browsing, and it's quite easy
to find a thread ~ just use the search.Gee... No kidding... you can do that any where on this forum, I know. After 2 and a half years here, I know how the site works.

contra is closer to what I was trying to convey, which is that without those subjects organized, they become lost in the midst of the 34,387 threads, and 436,478 posts that make up this entire site.

Further, new members are less like to realize there even WAS a study group for certain decks when they are dissolved this way into one huge collective. It's like losing a table of contents. Maybe some of the ideas to gather the study group indexes together would be a way to stop that from happening. My guess is it was a memory/space issue for Solandia.

souljourney
21-02-2005, 04:00
At least let the Gothic have it's own grouping. It was the only group, other than Thoth and RWS that was COMPLETE as far as I know.
I mean...every card was done. I still hope WolfyJames index is around someplace so I can access the cards.
And knowing the Gothic had it's own very complete and still somewhat active group IS one of the MAIN reasons I bought the deck. I knew the LWB was going to be less than adequate.
Does it use more board space or some other technical something or other to have the study groups like they were? I was hoping some of the ones that were getting activity would be added even...like Legends or DruidCraft.
That's my 2 cents for whatever it is worth...
OH...and I agree with what Alissa and Contra have to say wholeheartedly.
SJ

Sophie-David
21-02-2005, 04:43
I see advantages to the groupings as they were, as Alissa, Contrascarpe and SoulJourney mentioned: easy access to those study groups with sub-forums, a higher profile for those study groups, and better organization of the whole study group area. And those groups with subforums benefited from the ability to browse easily through the topics and to see new threads and posts as they popped up to the top.

For those study groups without subforums there is a real problem in discovering new threads or posts. The main forum is so busy that a new thread or post can come and go off the first page within as short a time as twenty-four hours. Week old threads totally disappear. This is less of a problem for those who participate regularly in a given study group than for those who are less active or new. Moving several of the groups who did have subforums to the main area is only going to make this apparent disappearance of threads accelerate.

Inevitably, there are going to be questions as to why some study groups still have subforums and others do not. For example, being involved in the Legend group makes me wonder why it is still in the general study group forum when the Gay Tarot which is an older group with somewhat less posts (this may indicate it is less active, depending how you define it) still has a subforum. I am not at all suggesting that the Gay Tarot not have a subforum! The more groups that lose subforums the more congested the main area will become. And it seems particularly unfortunate that a complete study such as the Gothic no longer has a subforum.

I'm sure there must be a sound reason why this modification had to take place. Solandia, if you could just let us know what it is I'm sure it would make it easier for us all to adapt.

Blessings
David

Gardener
21-02-2005, 06:00
The Margarete Petersen study group also includes all of the cards, as well as translations of the German text by our own firemaiden and thoughtful commentary by many board members. Because it has a complete index though, as long as that index is added to the index thread sticky at the top of the main Study Group forum, it will still be possible to find and browse through that wealth of information easily, even for people new to the deck. If space constraints make it impossible to return Gothic and others to their own subforums, perhaps a dedicated member could make indices for those groups?

Gardener
21-02-2005, 06:09
Huh, look at this. I thought I would just check on whether Gothic Tarot of Vampires had an index and to my confusion found that it has two! There is one in the index sticky thread (by souljourney), and one just in the main Study Group forum (by WolfyJames). The problem is, the one "running loose" in the forum is the complete one, so once more recent posts start appearing, it will become hard to find again and people will look to the one in the sticky thread. I wonder if the complete one could be placed up in the sticky thread?

(In a previous life I must've been a librarian)

souljourney
21-02-2005, 07:41
Gardener...
I did the Gothic Tarot of Vampires by LS
WolfyJames did the Gothic Tarot by Vargo...
Different decks.
SJ

Rusty Neon
21-02-2005, 07:55
Indeed, so they have.... And jmd approves of this?

Why should jmd<s approval be necessary? Solandia is the site owner, it<s her decision to make.

The RWS and Thoth decks have made their mark in 20th century tarot studies. As benchmark decks, they certainly deserve their place in a historical forum as much as the Marseilles.

That said, in my humble view, it would probably best to not to have any of three (RWS, Thoth, TdM/Visconti) under the historical heading, but as as least three or four study groups, depending on whether Visconti and TdM should be grouped together.

Does anyone have any GOOD news to tell me?

Yes! Marseilles studies, from multiple perspectives, are permitted and encouraged on ATF. ATF remains the place of excellence on the web for Marseilles studies.

Diana
21-02-2005, 16:22
Oh thank you, Rusty Neon! I knew I could trust on Aeclectic's only Knight in Rusty Armour to bring us good tidings. After all, it is the Knights who bring messages, not so?

Thanks for taking your time to explain things to me so clearly, especially as I have read that your on-line activity is rather reduced in the coming week or two.

I get this funny feeling that there is something in your last sentence that I am not quite getting. Is there something there that requires one to read between the lines?

September Pixie
22-02-2005, 03:46
I pm'd about the missing index of the Margarete Petersen, problem is, we are having trouble finding it.. I rememeber it was indexed in orange links, but when you search for "Margarete Petersen" in posts in the study group forum its missing... any one have any ideas? didn't firemaiden make the post? I'm continuing to search for a link. :)

I did find these early threads.. but no index?? :(
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=14212&highlight=Margarete+Petersen

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=19162&highlight=Margarete+Petersen

Sulis
22-02-2005, 06:17
I've only just discovered this thread.

Huh, look at this. I thought I would just check on whether Gothic Tarot of Vampires had an index and to my confusion found that it has two! There is one in the index sticky thread (by souljourney), and one just in the main Study Group forum (by WolfyJames).
Gardner these 2 indexes are for 2 different decks.
WolfyJames' index is for the Vargo Gothic deck and souljourneys' index thread is for the Gothic Tarot of the Vampires by Lo Scarabeo.

The Margarete Peterson index thread has now been added to the study group index too. Just click on the link and you'll be take there (as if by magic).

Hope that's helped.

Love

Sulis
moderator - Tarot Study Groups

WolfyJames
22-02-2005, 06:32
I find this sad to see that many subforums have disapeared. The Study Group Forum will be even messier than it already was. Newcomers will give up easily. Many study groups were given weird names not really related to their real names. The Tarot of the Olp Path study group, per example, was called TotOP, making it impossible to find the threads by making searches; I took the time to send the Index thread to Sulis so that it can be indexed because it's the only way to have access to the threads. Deep anal obsessed as I am, I wasted many hours checking every threads in that forum to search study groups that interested me. Not everyone is as deranged and patient as me, and I doubt newcomers will have what it takes to go through the entire forum. Even with the listed list, some study groups don't have a link with all the threads, some study group are not even listed.

I see advantages to the groupings as they were, as Alissa, Contrascarpe and SoulJourney mentioned: easy access to those study groups with sub-forums, a higher profile for those study groups, and better organization of the whole study group area. And those groups with subforums benefited from the ability to browse easily through the topics and to see new threads and posts as they popped up to the top.

For those study groups without subforums there is a real problem in discovering new threads or posts. The main forum is so busy that a new thread or post can come and go off the first page within as short a time as twenty-four hours. Week old threads totally disappear. This is less of a problem for those who participate regularly in a given study group than for those who are less active or new. Moving several of the groups who did have subforums to the main area is only going to make this apparent disappearance of threads accelerate.

Inevitably, there are going to be questions as to why some study groups still have subforums and others do not. For example, being involved in the Legend group makes me wonder why it is still in the general study group forum when the Gay Tarot which is an older group with somewhat less posts (this may indicate it is less active, depending how you define it) still has a subforum.

I totally agree with it. The subforums made the Study Group Forum a bit clearer. It definitively needs to be more orderly, frankly, I even think there should be many more subforums. And new threads indeed end up burried faster than light speed in there. As for why some groups ended up with a subforum and some not, once the Gothic Tarot Study Group fulfilled the necessary criteria to get its own subforum, I PMd and asked for our own subforum, and we got one. Do the same things for your own group, it might work, but seeing the new conditions now, I'm not so sure it would work.

About the moderators, our study group (Gothic Tarot) was quite peaceful compared to the fights and arguments in the Marseilles & Other Early Decks Forum, and I can include other peaceful forums where I've spent some time like the Fey, Thoth and RWS subforums; I can't talk much about the others subforums because I never went there (don't have the decks). I mean by this that I don't think our forum really needed much moderation, just like the other subforums I mentionned. I don't think we made Alissa pulling off her hair. For a bunch of Goths, we didn't make much damage.

Solandia
22-02-2005, 10:24
The most recent changes to the study groups were made to reduce the number of inactive sub-forums, while keeping their threads and discussion accessible to all members. In the past, inactive groups were closed and moved to the subscriber-only Forum Archive (http://www.tarotforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=69). Moving inactive groups to Tarot Study Groups (http://www.tarotforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=14) means all their threads and posts can still be read and added to at any time.

The Index of Study Groups (http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=34124") also lists the various groups in the one place, so information on the decks can be found be easily. If an existing group is not listed, please contact Sulis so it can be added. Thank you.

~ Solandia