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prudence
25-02-2005, 04:24
ncfcfn,
what type of energy shift is expected when saturn moves into leo later on this year? And for those with a lot of fixed signs, what can they expect?
thanks for this thread, it is very interesting
astrid

ncefafn
25-02-2005, 05:54
Hi, Astrid. Minderwiz, Isthmus, Paradoxx and Dadsnook are really the people to ask about that. I'm just a duffer when it comes to astrology. As for transiting Saturn's effect on your chart, it depends on what planets or angles he hits. For instance -- and this is extreme -- when Saturn squared my natal Saturn, my mom died. However, at the time, Uranus was also hitting my MC/IC axis, and my Moon/Venus/Neptune t-square. It usually takes big combos of transits, like the one mentioned above, for major events to happen.

But let's take a minor for instance, say of Saturn conjuncting your Mars. When this happens, it will feel like you're driving with your brakes on. You've got all this energy, and it's being shoved down by obligations, discipline, authority. However, if you handle it well, you'll come out of the transit with the ability to discipline yourself, to rein in and channel your energy into appropriate directions instead of flying off the handle. If Saturn opposes your Mars, it feels like other people are doing all the squelching, which makes it a little bit harder to handle.

Transiting Saturn generally reins in, sets limits, disciplines and teaches lessons to whatever planet he hits. It can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on your outlook and on the particular planet he hits. Saturn hitting the Moon is, in general, pretty depressing.

Kim

paradoxx
25-02-2005, 11:10
how about some links

Saturn in Cancer
http://www.horoscope-x-files.com/horoscope/cancer-saturn.htm
http://www.guidingstar.com/SaturnInCancer.html

Saturn in Leo
http://www.horoscope-x-files.com/horoscope/leo-saturn.htm
http://www.universalastrology.com.au/article12.htm
http://www.guidingstar.com/SaturnInLeo.html
(and if you think saturn was scary before: Disco is coming into style is mentioned for Sat's leo positioning.)

Universal Astrology articles
http://www.universalastrology.com.au/articles.htm

My general impression is that cooperation between leaders and followers will be destabilized, unions will be stressed and some dissolved. Workplace ethics will degrade, sweatshops will be given more immunity in less-developed nations but also indicates the extreme opposite is true, that companies who are invested in keeping good quality may have other sinister reasons. Investment into the knowledge
of the situation is important to make the correct decisions that will last through the Cancer/Leo cusp for the right reasons.

That is what has come for us during this last decante of Cancer, ruled by Pisces, the current Piscean prescence is amplified (is that why everyone is getting sick?) by Saturn and the Darkmoon Lilith (gravitional void that keeps the moon in orbit and acts as a required or nessacary void in lifes' events.) . We are starting to come to terms with the voids from the events in our recent lives, but at the same time, older wounds are still being felt and are in need of at least a checkup. Pisces does not like things unresolved, tell people what they need to know so the false appearances can halt.

Mars in Capricorn is something else though, thought and action merging one in the same, nothing the same again.

Red Black and White critters, eh? Sounds like the ants I have around my house, a colony of red ants and a colony of black ants with white specks. Red ants are ok to have around, but they do indeed tend to cause some problems if left uncontrolled. Black ants are much more dosile to have around. I prefer spidres in my garden any day.

isthmus nekoi
26-02-2005, 02:40
ncefafn,

That is a rather extreme case. I would also look at progressed planets to see what they were doing.... I recently had the same transit (Saturn square Saturn) and it manifested in some very intense dreams.

People heavy in fixed signs are going to feel more **pressure** from Saturn when it transits through Leo. As ncefafn has states, Saturn does bring restrictions, obligations etc.

Saturn in general however, doesn't like Leo. He's the traditional ruler of Aquarius, Leo's opposing sign making Saturn in detriment here. Saturn does better in detached, scientific Aquarius than hot and showy Leo. Disco. *shudders*

DollieAnna
26-02-2005, 09:15
But let's take a minor for instance, say of Saturn conjuncting your Mars. When this happens, it will feel like you're driving with your brakes on. You've got all this energy, and it's being shoved down by obligations, discipline, authority. However, if you handle it well, you'll come out of the transit with the ability to discipline yourself, to rein in and channel your energy into appropriate directions instead of flying off the handle. If Saturn opposes your Mars, it feels like other people are doing all the squelching, which makes it a little bit harder to handle.

Transiting Saturn generally reins in, sets limits, disciplines and teaches lessons to whatever planet he hits. It can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on your outlook and on the particular planet he hits. Saturn hitting the Moon is, in general, pretty depressing.

Kim
Ok, So if Saturn is in opposition to my Mercury, which is in Cancer, it would make sense that people have misunderstood everything I have done and said. Could this be a simple explanation for the trouble I am having? How long does this transit last?
Thanks.
Dollie

rainwolf
26-02-2005, 10:40
I believe that in tarot the card assigned to that is the 5 of wands (saturn in leo) and is similar: arguments, disharmony, not seeing eye to eye, not willing to discuss problems, being cocky, etc. I hope that helps some.

Yay, my 200 post!

prudence
26-02-2005, 11:57
congrats rainwolf

isthmus nekoi
27-02-2005, 00:48
DollieAnna: Yes, transiting Saturn opposing natal Mercury could be causing problems. Saturn is currently in retrograde, and station on 20 degrees Cancer and then go direct in March. Saturn enters Leo in July. If you let me know what degree your Mercury is placed, I could be more specific about dates...

Because your workplace and sisters are involved, I would also look at what's happening to the rulers of the 3rd (siblings), 6th (coworkers) and 10th (career) houses. For example, if you have Virgo cusping 3rd, look to Virgo's ruler, Mercury.

DollieAnna
27-02-2005, 01:45
Fulgour gave some good info in the other thread too.

I will go see where my important placements are. BRB
Rising Sign is in 03 Degrees Leo
Sun is in 08 Degrees Leo
Moon is in 13 Degrees Aries 9 house
Mercury is in 25 Degrees Cancer 12 house
Venus is in 27 Degrees Gemini 11 house
Mars is in 20 Degrees Virgo 3 house
Jupiter is in 01 Degrees Aquarius 6 house
Saturn is in 25 Degrees Capricorn 6 house
Uranus is in 25 Degrees Leo 2 house
Neptune is in 08 Degrees Scorpio 4 house
Pluto is in 06 Degrees Virgo 2 house
N. Node is in 27 Degrees Leo 2 house

Minderwiz
27-02-2005, 04:34
Well, as someone who has Saturn in Leo in my natal chart, I have to say that I'm not sure what it means:(

For me, personally, it means that in tweny one degrees and seven minutes thereafter I will have my second Saturn return - A new, and probably the last Saturn cycle will begin.

At a more general level, it all depends on a number of other variables - firstly what house does Saturn fall in? Saturn in Leo the twelfth and Saturn in Leo conjunct the MC different things. Saturn in Leo transiting the tenth means something different from Saturn in Leo transiting the sixth.

Secondly it depends on what type of chart you are casting. Modern Astrology is so fixed in the rut of Natal charting, that many don't realise that there are other forms of Astrology. Are we talking about Saturn in Leo in horary? - where it's meaning may be ephemeral or are we talking of Mundane Astrology where Saturn in Leo continuing to transit the USA's eighth house (Sibley chart) and then ninth houses may have far longer and stronger significance.

There's no simple answer - the meaning varies according to the specific circumstances. The only common factor is that Saturn continues to be debiliated in terms of essential dignity and even this may be more than compensated by angularity or other accidental factors.

The more I learn the less willing I become to make generalisations. Astrology involves applying rules to a specific chart - the 'cookbooks', whilst useful (and we've all got them) can only give possibilities that we have to consider and adapt.

DollieAnna
27-02-2005, 05:52
Is there a website that tells where the planets are each day, week, whatever?
Thanks
Dollie

isthmus nekoi
28-02-2005, 10:43
Indeed there is! http://www.astro.com is a great site and I often use their ephemeris(es)...

Deszroo
08-03-2005, 03:15
Well I for one am not really looking forward to Sat/Leo....I just feel it means more dread added to what I already experience...but at the same realize that things move on and that its in my best interest anyways as stagnation is not. This will a form of a kind of Saturn return of sorts for me because its a second time it will be in my first and so second time will opp natal Sat. I've been feeling both the depth and the weirdness of 12th house by way of transiting Saturn or maybe Saturn heaviness is more excentuated in the 12th. I feel also the weight and significance more so its sometimes too maudlin or overly sympathy/identifiying with everyones...mass or others suffering...and I really don't need any more help in that direction since I already have other natal placements that are on that vein. I think the real kicker for Saturn in Cancer wherever it is for anyone will be the retrograde...hopefully not too much of a kick/er. I've noticed during Saturn in Cancer lots of heavy or even fatal things happening to masses/families/cultures...like Tsunamis and also there are the abuses to or involving children that have been fatally outstanding this year. Leo has an affinity with children and educational, arts, managerial, sports, and love affairs area..so we might see some heavy things occur in these areas as well with the Saturn/Leo transit and Chiron in Aquarius. Fire signs and of course fixed signs will be in the spot light this year. Some mentioned a return of disco!...humm ,well things have been very retro trendy lately in terms of fashions..I guess people can't come up with anything new. Yet, we are still in the early formation of things in terms of year numbers.. we not yet out of the first 10's/10 years.Things seem to accumulate and happen from the 5's and definitely in the 6s and 7s and and seems to wind down thereafter like March Lion or lamb by the first part of whichever new millennium.

isthmus nekoi
08-03-2005, 03:30
Sorry it took me so long to reply DollieAnna! I must've missed your post... :(

Your Mercury is at 25 degrees Cancer. This means that Saturn was exact Sept 2004, although you may have felt the pressure earlier than that. Saturn turned retrograde and went over 25 Cancer again in Dec and has been retrograde ever since. Whatever happened in during those times, I would evaluate them carefully so you are better prepared when Saturn turns direct. He will be on 25 Cancer again June 2005.

DollieAnna
08-03-2005, 07:41
Sorry it took me so long to reply DollieAnna! I must've missed your post... :(

Your Mercury is at 25 degrees Cancer. This means that Saturn was exact Sept 2004, although you may have felt the pressure earlier than that. Saturn turned retrograde and went over 25 Cancer again in Dec and has been retrograde ever since. Whatever happened in during those times, I would evaluate them carefully so you are better prepared when Saturn turns direct. He will be on 25 Cancer again June 2005.
Thanks, isthmus...
But what do you mean "when Saturn turns direct?' Things can't get worse than they already are...Can they? :(

paradoxx
08-03-2005, 08:07
No, but things can hit a brick wall. Saturn moving direct is when our planetbound view of the great ringed planet starts to change as Earth and Saturn curve on the eccliptic so that the optical illusion of a backwards moving saturn will stop.

Saturn is going stationary @ 21 Cancer, it will then start to progress as opposed to regress in the degree count of Cancer, after a while Saturn will pick up speed and take a lot of homeage and home baggage with him right into Sun ruled Leo.

So it't not that things can get worse or not, it's can you find the right direction so all the obsticles are not in the way, or will you find the ruins of ancient passages blocked by that which you may have neglected?

DollieAnna
08-03-2005, 08:31
So it't not that things can get worse or not, it's can you find the right direction so all the obsticles are not in the way, or will you find the ruins of ancient passages blocked by that which you may have neglected?
Interesting, paradoxx. Thanks. I always thought an ancient passage of mine was to learn to stand up for myself...Well, I have been trying and all I am getting is head butting!!
I just don't know what to do except hide under a rock. :(
(and still waiting for the March 25 full moon...sigh.)

Fulgour
08-03-2005, 08:34
Note: good animation models will appear in motion.
The solutions may be found by scrolling to the end.

*

The Copernican Solution, re: Retrograde Motion

In 1543, Nicolaus Copernicus (1473-1543) proposed that
the Earth travels around the Sun, as do the other planets.
For Copernicus, the apparent retrograde motion of the
planets is a result of the relative speeds of the Earth and
the planets as observed from the Earth:

http://faculty.fullerton.edu/cmcconnell/Planets.html

Equivalence of Ptolemaic and Copernican Models

Just as Ptolemy was able to calibrate his model by adjusting
the size and speed of the epicycles and deferents, Copernicus
was able to calibrate his model by adjusting the size and speed
of a planet's orbit.

DollieAnna
08-03-2005, 08:59
What an excellent website to illustrate retrogrades...





...i need a drink.

isthmus nekoi
08-03-2005, 10:50
Thanks, isthmus...
But what do you mean "when Saturn turns direct?'

Saturn appears to change directions - he moves away from 25 Cancer and is currently sitting on 20 Cancer now. He'll move back forwards again soon, to head back to 25 Cancer.

DollieAnna
08-03-2005, 11:04
Sorry, I misposted...I know what direct means...I should have said "Are things going to get worse when Saturn goes direct?" At the rate things are going now (in my life), I can't afford any more harsh transits.

purplefishy
08-03-2005, 14:17
I'm actually looking forward to Saturn leaving Cancer- the sign of my natal moon. It might be a relief, who knows?
Then again, Leo could be interesting for me by the looks of it...

isthmus nekoi
09-03-2005, 01:28
Hey DollieAnna - as paradoxx said, it's really not a matter of getting better or worse. I would suggest trying not to look at transiting planets as the source of your woes. They can certainly help you understand them better though! For example, the lessons of a transiting Saturn are very different than those of Jupiter. Saturn right now, is a little far away from your Mercury. Perhaps it is not Saturn that you should be concentrating on, but Jupiter or Mars! Like tarot where there is a positive and negative aspect to every card, there are positives and negatives to every transit.

paradoxx
28-03-2005, 16:26
A Saturn/Sun square is coming up soon (the Sun in Cardinal Aries is @ 6deg and Saturn in Cardinal Cancer @ 21deg), but right now it is the Saturn/Moon Node square making us think of how the recent past had gone down (seems a lot longer than only 3 months since Jan 1st). Once the Sun makes a square to Saturn, especially since it takes place after the sun passes over the moon node, that is when all this pent up energy, progressivly getting stronger and more stable as opposed to being weak and distressed, will be released.

Don't tell anyone what you think should be kept to yourself, secrets and caution aren't a bad thing, and larger things are happening that require caution for a successful outcome.

moonspirit
30-03-2005, 06:15
I have 4 placements in leo. My ascendant is at 17 degrees leo,my saturn is in 18 degrees leo my sun in 3 degrees leo and my mercury in 27 degrees leo

My saturn's return is approaching and I have been feeling the need to come out of this isolation period I have been in for some years. I'm feeling the pull to get back in the mix of things. Realizations have been opening up to me and I've been put on a path of self-understanding. It feels like it's time for me to stop feeling limited in my abilities and to push forward.If anything things were way harder for me before this time. Does this mean things will get bad again? Are Saturn's returns always difficult?

isthmus nekoi
30-03-2005, 23:24
moonspirit,

I'm not sure how old you are but it sounds like this is your 1st Saturn return. Really the best way to gauge the effect transiting Saturn will have on you is to look at previous transits: you can probably remember the last two times tSaturn made hard aspects to itself (roughly around 14, 21 - check w/an ephermeris) as well as any other Saturn transits you can recall. What is also important is how Saturn is placed natally. What are the hard/soft aspects it makes and how have these aspects played out in your life? A Saturn return will charge this again with new Saturnian energy. Also, is Saturn strongly placed in your chart (e.g. in an angular house etc) If so, you may be accustomed to Saturnian energy and the return may not feel so shocking.

I recently had my Saturn square Saturn last year and I can certainly say the way the transit manifested was nothing like the books. It was very Saturnian though. Saturn transits to Saturn/sun has always brought me love which I have never, ever read as a potential way for the energy to come through. This is what I mean when I say your own transit experience is the best indicator of what to expect.

huredriel
30-03-2005, 23:38
I was just wondering, if you don't know what time you were born, how would you be able to figure out the effect Saturn is going to have on you. My dob was 19 August 1968.

x Huredriel

Deszroo
31-03-2005, 02:17
Huredriel....have you tried your local City Hall area to get your birth certificate?...in the USA...they have what is called a long form which gives all the info for you dob..as opposed to the short form which is very abbreviated for natal chart purposes. Is there someone that you could ask who would be able to tell you accurately your time of birth?. Some astrologers cast a chart for noon or midnight..but thats not really as accurate as your actual time. I have a friend who ventured to a palmist and several intuits and was able to confirm his birth time finally. In any case maybe? the City Hall records can help...good luck with it!

Deszroo

huredriel
31-03-2005, 03:40
Huredriel....have you tried your local City Hall area to get your birth certificate?...in the USA...they have what is called a long form which gives all the info for you dob..as opposed to the short form which is very abbreviated for natal chart purposes. Is there someone that you could ask who would be able to tell you accurately your time of birth?. Some astrologers cast a chart for noon or midnight..but thats not really as accurate as your actual time. I have a friend who ventured to a palmist and several intuits and was able to confirm his birth time finally. In any case maybe? the City Hall records can help...good luck with it!
Thanks Deszroo, I may try to call the area I was born in, I don't live anywhere near it. And no matter how many times I have tried recently to ask, my mother just can't remember, though she can remember the time for my sister LOL! Thanks for the advice :)

x Huredriel

isthmus nekoi
31-03-2005, 07:25
Huredriel, you can always draw up a chart w/o birthtime. This means you won't be able to place your planets into houses and the moon placement may be a bit off, esp if it's on a sign cusp. But the other planet placements won't change significantly, birthtime or no.

huredriel
31-03-2005, 07:33
Huredriel, you can always draw up a chart w/o birthtime. This means you won't be able to place your planets into houses and the moon placement may be a bit off, esp if it's on a sign cusp. But the other planet placements won't change significantly, birthtime or no.
Brilliant, thanks. Still will try and find out though, I think this is really interesting :)

paradoxx
31-03-2005, 10:43
You could also check the different times of day (midnight, 6 am, noon, 6 p.m and the followng midnight) to see how much of a degree the moon and mercury (also very fast) moved during your day of birth.

moonspirit
31-03-2005, 13:48
moonspirit,

I'm not sure how old you are but it sounds like this is your 1st Saturn return. Really the best way to gauge the effect transiting Saturn will have on you is to look at previous transits: you can probably remember the last two times tSaturn made hard aspects to itself (roughly around 14, 21 - check w/an ephermeris) as well as any other Saturn transits you can recall. What is also important is how Saturn is placed natally. What are the hard/soft aspects it makes and how have these aspects played out in your life? A Saturn return will charge this again with new Saturnian energy. Also, is Saturn strongly placed in your chart (e.g. in an angular house etc) If so, you may be accustomed to Saturnian energy and the return may not feel so shocking.

I recently had my Saturn square Saturn last year and I can certainly say the way the transit manifested was nothing like the books. It was very Saturnian though. Saturn transits to Saturn/sun has always brought me love which I have never, ever read as a potential way for the energy to come through. This is what I mean when I say your own transit experience is the best indicator of what to expect.


Yes this will be my first. I am 27 years old. I will look at an ephermeris just as soon as I figure out what that is!:P

paradoxx
31-03-2005, 14:17
I have mixed feelings about my Saturn return coming up in 3-4 years, my progressed Mars is closing in on my natal Solar degree and my prog mercury has already transited the Sol Degree and has passed my natal Mercury rx. my prog mars will be in conjunction with my nat sun while Saturn makes a return both over my natal and prog Jupiter and Saturn. I'm just hoping that asteroids Excalibur and United Nations can provide a balancing force in that first decante of Libra.

purplefishy
01-04-2005, 13:10
Leo is my True Node- what is the significance of the True Node (first of all) and is Saturn usually at home here?

isthmus nekoi
02-04-2005, 02:12
hey purplefishy,

First, True node in the astro.com charts is your north node. Although I haven't really looked at nodes closely myself, I've read they're meant to signify one's karmic calling - and the south node (which is directly opposite the north) represents where you came from, karmic baggage. You may be interested in this article about the nodes: http://www.north-node.com/tutorial/points/nodes.html

As for Leo, no Saturn is really not at home in the sign. Saturn rules Leo's opposite, Aquarius, so Saturn would be in detriment in Leo.

purplefishy
02-04-2005, 03:58
Thank you for the information! Very interesting. So for me, Saturn will be transiting the place of my karmic calling. Hmm.

huredriel
17-05-2005, 00:34
Huredriel, you can always draw up a chart w/o birthtime. This means you won't be able to place your planets into houses and the moon placement may be a bit off, esp if it's on a sign cusp. But the other planet placements won't change significantly, birthtime or no.
Yay I've actually got my birth time, had a couple of charts crunched but I must admit to being worried about Saturn. Turns out my moon is in Cancer and my sun is Leo. Especially wondering since the last couple of years have been really bad relationship-wise, whether I'm gonna be hit with a double whammy as it moves from Cancer and into Leo this year.

isthmus nekoi
17-05-2005, 01:53
huredriel,

You may want to read my post to moonspirit regarding Saturn transits. They are not always negative :) My sister's a Cancer sun and when Saturn was conj her sun, she got accepted to a very competitive university program, received a bunch of scholarships and won prizes as she graduated. And relationship-wise, as I've said, in my chart, Saturn has always coincided with love. So look to past transits w/Saturn and see what happened the last time Saturn aspected your sun for a more accurate picture of what will come to pass.

huredriel
17-05-2005, 02:31
huredriel,

You may want to read my post to moonspirit regarding Saturn transits. They are not always negative :) My sister's a Cancer sun and when Saturn was conj her sun, she got accepted to a very competitive university program, received a bunch of scholarships and won prizes as she graduated. And relationship-wise, as I've said, in my chart, Saturn has always coincided with love. So look to past transits w/Saturn and see what happened the last time Saturn aspected your sun for a more accurate picture of what will come to pass.
Thanks for this, like Moonspirit I need to work out what an ephermeris is though :D

isthmus nekoi
17-05-2005, 10:05
A free ephermeris is available at http://www.astro.com. There's a link on the front page. An ephermeris basically lists the degrees/signs the planets are in and astro.com has 3000 years listed!!

What you need to do is find out the degree of your sun and see when Saturn was last there, or aspecting it. e.g. If you have your sun at 15 degrees Leo, try checking roughly 29 years back, find the month/year Saturn was conjunct sun and remembering what happened then. If you're not old enough for that, try the late 1990s when Saturn was in Taurus, squaring your sun.

huredriel
17-05-2005, 22:15
Wow thanks, this is flying over my head at the minute though. I have virtually no knowledge of astrology :(. Been to astro, got the data page etc with ephermeris, my sun was 26 degrees apparently, so now trawling through the records ...... hmmm, think I need to learn a bit more first though :D

isthmus nekoi
18-05-2005, 01:07
You've gotten to a good start! So if your sun is at 26 degrees Leo, try looking for times when Saturn was at 26 degrees Taurus, 26 degrees Aquarius (roughly 14 years ago) etc. Hard aspects to sun will come at 7 year intervals - e.g. 7 years from square to opposition, 7 years from opposition to square, another 7 from square to conjunct. Saturn will also move through the signs so if you find him in Gemini, you've got to go backwards in time to reach him in Taurus (sorry if this seems obvious, but I can't tell how much you do or don't know).

huredriel
18-05-2005, 01:25
(sorry if this seems obvious, but I can't tell how much you do or don't know).
LOL, how about virtually nothing :D, but this is a great start, so thanks for helping me

Just had another thought, not only is my moon in Cancer, sun in Leo, but I have 5 planets in Virgo, so I expect this would make Saturn movement a triple whammy, not a double for me :( - now where's that gun gone?

isthmus nekoi
19-05-2005, 00:15
Don't worry, it takes Saturn roughly 2.5 years to go through each sign! So it'll be a long time before he's in Virgo. At the most, if Saturn "stations" on your sun (You might have noticed Saturn moving backwards/retrograde in the astro ephemeris. When Saturn changes direction, he slooooooows down and can "station" on a degree. Last year, he stationed opposite my sun!), you could feel the effect for roughly 2 months. If he doesn't station there, the effect will be a lot faster. And remember, Saturn can bring things you need e.g. committment in relationships, promotions at work etc. :)

huredriel
19-05-2005, 00:26
Well I must admit I'm finding it all very confusing at the moment, so more things to learn added to my wishlist!! Hmmm, I remember what happened two and a half years ago when Saturn entered my Moon grrrrrrr, oh well I guess it can't get any worse :D *ducks and hides*

wizzle
25-05-2005, 07:10
I'm a proud member of the Saturn in leo bunch that is better known for being the hippies of the late 60's/70's. My son was born near my first Saturn return, so he's got Saturn in Leo too. And I took up astrology about that time as well and it's stuck with me even though I'm a fairly flighty sun in sag/moon in gem.

In a nutshell, I'd say we're looking forward to a time of a lot of effort being put into creative activities. I think having a kid is VERY creative and damn hard work.

Since Saturn insists on manifesting in a concrete way, we can expect both really valuable and long lasting new stuff as well as an effort on the part of some to stifle anything new/threatening. Those with a more conservative mentality will probably have a hard time with Saturn's earthy need to actually put things/ideas into practice. But that's OK in the long run, because the squelching will insure that only the best survives. That's Saturn too......like that saying......whatever doesn't kill me makes me stronger.

I have long loved Liz Greene's book "Saturn: A New Look at an Old Devil" and maybe this is a good time to read/re-read it.