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Jpoor
26-02-2005, 10:20
I'm not sure this is the best place to post this thread, but I have a plate that is supposedly from a Sacred Temple in India. I can see two zodiac systems as well as what seems to be the I Ching in the inscriptions. The plate is farily detailed, and I am wondering if there is anyone out there that can help me decode it, or point me in the right direction to start......

Thanks
Jim

Fitz
26-02-2005, 10:44
Given that it is from India, you might want to check out Vedic Astrology.

Jpoor
26-02-2005, 10:51
Thanks, I'll do that, I'm pretty sure there is more to it than just astrology though. The person that gave it to me said that the best she has been able to figure is that it tells a story about man's attempts to control creation or something of the sort.

Fitz
26-02-2005, 10:54
Any chance you could post a picture of it?

Jpoor
26-02-2005, 11:06
Well, I can't post directly since I haven't paid a subscription yet, but I have a digital camera and can get a picture posted to my home page tomorrow.

Fitz
26-02-2005, 11:08
Cool, I think that would help anyone with info to see if they can help.

Fitz

Jpoor
28-02-2005, 07:13
Ok, I have pictures poste at the link which you will find under my home page under my profile in this site. Look in the "From India" folder for several views.

I'd post the link here, but I think that although it wouldn't break the spirit of the law, it may break the letter, and I"ve seen some talk about that lately...


Tks
Jim

prudence
28-02-2005, 07:38
hi JP
That symbol in the center reminds me of a Feng Shui ba'gua, it even has the 9 squares that the ba'gua has representing rooms or spaces in one's house.
Odd, the symbol on the back of both of your pendants is almost identical to the symbol on the back of a yin/yang pendant of mine from Tibet (or made by Tibetan refugees?) The 4 arrows pointing to the center like that, and it's very similar to the 4 of swords in the Thoth deck. Don't know what it means tho. Have you ever seen a feng shui ba'gua? (it can be googled)

what do you ean about breaking the spirit of the law? or the letter?

Jpoor
28-02-2005, 07:45
HI back :D

I haven't seen one, but I'll look. I am leaving for LA on Tuesday and am pretty swamped. Actually, there is only one, the color change came from different lighting and such trying to get the details to pop out....

Jpoor
28-02-2005, 07:49
Oh, the lawbreaking thing was in referance to nonpaying subscribers not being able to post links in threads. I haven't had time to dig into it enough yet, and I'd rather be safe.

prudence
28-02-2005, 07:55
oh, I get it there is only one.
I'd say the center symbol on the front is identical to a ba'gua, but I could be wrong. The back like I said is just like the back to my yin/yang pendant, my mom bought it in a Buddhist temple in Boston and said it was made by Tibetans. I'd aslo like to know what it means now!

Cerulean
28-02-2005, 07:56
and if there is a hare image near it--it is hard to see, then there may be Buddhist symbology associated with this plaque.

The monkey riding the elephant on the lower right corner would be unique imagery, for instance, so I wrote that combination into google, looked at images, and came up with this:

http://acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_pages/0013-0410-0513-5916.html

I did count eight on the petals of the central flower, which would be in keeping with Buddhist eight-petalled symbology.

The guess of Tibetian might lead one to believe this is more related to a Buddhist tradition?

Best wishes,

Cerulean

Jpoor
28-02-2005, 08:09
WOW, I never would have guessed that to be a monkey..... but now that I look at the link you provided, I can see the monkey, the rabbit and the bird too.....

Interesting.

I can get do enlargements of any areas that need more detail shown, but it might have to wait till I get back home to sunny LA in a couple of days..

I wasn't really going to mention the whole curse/legend associated with this particular piece, but now I think I will. Here is the story as related to me by the person who gave me the item.

It was stolen from a temple in India. Sometime later and american woman bought it as a souvenier. Eventually she gave it to her best friend. Once the first woman gave it away, she was in a car accident three days later. She didn't die in the accident, but as a result of a brain hemorrage that was caused by a bump on the head during the wreck.
Ok, so best friend give it away to another woman, then three days later, best friend is in a car accident and dies, not from the accident, but from a massive heart attack as a result of the wreck....
The third woman gave it to my friend some time ago. She recently decided that if the story is true, she can't die until she gives it away, and in her words, she was "curious." Well, it's been a few weeks now, and she is still around. In her mind we prove that there is no curse. Of course, the one difference is that she gave it to a man this time around.....

I'm not asking for anyone to believe it or not, but the story might add something to the research. Then again, it might just be an interesting story.

Maybe I should do a reading about the item, or get my pendulum out and start asking questions.....




Tks
again

prudence
28-02-2005, 08:43
very very weird jpoor
freaky even
I don't think you should give it away! sheesh

Cerulean
28-02-2005, 09:15
A dear friend of mine rescued from a friendly art dealer's dumpster what he thought was a nice, slightly worn ink painting of Buddhist personages--they turned out to be 18 Arhats (similar to local saints or group of sacred personages who attained enlightenment) from a Chinese meditative group--no one knows if it was a temple or monkish copy, but it was also over fifty years old. It might be even older, but they were dating it from the style of calligraphy that was on the painting.

Anyway, I helped research from Buddhist sources, he also found suggestions and he had a Chinese student translate any writing--he checked online and sent scans and paid for the translation.

In the meantime, he had it framed and had someone well-versed in Feng Shei to help analyze his house decor and settings, including the picture. If nothing else, a sense of harmony and nice setting for something meditative and artistic to him. Eventually he switched the framed picture to his bedroom--it became an excellent treasure and more his as time has gone on.

Perhaps over time, you can make it more your own and create a setting that makes it harmonious to you. Over the years, Western settings have become more welcome to Eastern art and ideals. It seems the piece that you now have has been paid for and exchanged many hands. If you value and share the art, create a kindly setting and grow to understand the iconography, your intention is pure--and if it is Buddhist, as the Dali Lama and Horatio Alger suggested, the time is now

"To go west, young man!"

A silly parable, but after all this time and all the exchanges, better to show it in the light of day and appreciate it's beauty. Doesn't seem a piece made for a more gentle purpose of teaching and study, perhaps to be brought out to show others the tales of an old country for new minds?

Best wishes,

Cerulean

Cerulean
28-02-2005, 10:18
The facsimile below might help you identify the inner circle as well.

http://www.sportstune.com/chinese/charms/4/3.html

I'm researching my Thai Tarot and ran across this.

Best wishes,

Cerulean

Jpoor
01-03-2005, 01:21
The most definative response I have received yet....


"The item (talisman) is Tibetan, not Indian. The emblems on the reverse are two crossed Dorje's ("Diamond Thuderbolt", emblem of Lamaism, equivalent to the Master Mason's mallet in the West). Tibetan Astrology uses the Bagua (I Ching), and symbols used in the Chinese Zodiac...the central circle is the Mewa, a "magic square", in which all rows add to 15...used in Astrological calculations. The outside border is similar to an "illumined manuscript", but contains some symbols relating to the qualities of the Zodiacal directions. "

Cerulean
01-03-2005, 04:47
Maybe it is a strange movie, but some people have said KunDun might give Western-born some background of Tibetian Buddhism's movement out from its native place.

And perhaps, if the originating culture was Tibetian, how it arrived to India from it's place of origin is another strange passage in an ongoing story.

What happens next is up to you; I'm just glad to have seen it. It's odd, but did you feel it was Buddhist? My guess might have been way off, but the way the animals were depicted, there are stories with trace elements of the monkey and elephant being the Enlightened One's companions; serpents and lions having goodly qualities, etc...

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/buddhism/fstory4.htm

Have a wonderful time searching the stories and compiling them!

Regards,

Cerulean

Jpoor
04-03-2005, 03:53
I am not nearly educated enough in the religions of the world to have guess where it came from. My thoughts were only based on the story that was told to me. I was talking about the talisman with the person who gave it to me, and her idea is that most of the religions in that part of the world are all so interconected that they share imagery. I guess maybe this is the start of my journey to learn more myself.


I'm still looking for more answers. For example, what, if anything, does it actually SAY?

Tks
Jim