View Full Version : Umbrae goes on a Rant about LWB's
So folks start with a LWB. A line is given about the meanings of the cards. It is read and memorized. Then the new deck owner attempts to begin 'readings'. This is akin to reading crib notes on a flight manual and attempting to fly an airplane.
One seems logical, the other silly...but think about it.
History changes things, and we take it for granted. In previous threads I have discussed the historical backgrounds and changes to various cards (6 of sw, fool...).
Let's look at one card...the Queen of Swords. (a divorced or widowed woman). Even back in the days of the RW's, divorce, (on the tail end of the Victorian era) was not common, and carried with it a stigma. Divorce was bad, and remarriage after widowhood was not accepted. heck, we didn't even know about the female orgasm until the '70's! Think about this folks...Just what were those women like? nasty evil frustrated backstabbing...
you get the picture.
So the queen of swords showed up in a spread...what are you going to do? Just start spouting off that "a divorced woman..." Okay, that narrows it down to 75% of the women in America.
What is it the QoS is saying? Manipulative, not your friend. most likely obsessed with the opinions of others; street smart, and a tongue that will cut you to shreds...blah blah blah...
But what does the spread look like? The card means nothing without the spread around it! What is the Spread saying? Is this a person, or an attitude that the male sitter personifies?
Reading the LWB will not improve your psychic abilities. You become a mimic...a fraud. Burn the book.
In the book “Tarot Reversals” Greer devotes an entire page in (short essay) to each card upright and reversed. Each card has a whole plethora of meanings…(and this is important folks)…if you know how to read, and have a modicum of psychic abilities (aka intuition) you will know which one while looking at the CONTEXT of the spread.
The LWB is not current as far as the context of the spread, or in context with the times.
I would always recommend to any new student. Buy two decks. Tape one deck card by card into a notebook. Leave two pages for each card. Write your own meanings first, then hunt down a good book (“Tarot Reversals”) and begin expanding. Examine how you interpreted the archtypes.
As time goes on you will find that some card meanings expand, others contract. Your interpretation one time of the 4 of cups must be different than other times, due to context.
The little white book will ignite at four hundred and fifty seven degrees Fahrenheit. Roast a sausage.
haha, lol, though you are right umbrae.
still i keep the lbw's, just to have the decks complete :)
kaz
Forgot to mention this…the boxes…I burn the boxes too…Why? Hate them. Why? Because I am burning the LWB…
MystiqueMoonlight
20-05-2002, 20:17
** Rousing applause**
Good on you Umbrae!!
I was once showing someone my deck and she said to me "how can you read it without the book to look up the cards. You can't be very good"
I get so frustrated with people who buy a deck and spend weeks memorising the LWB that comes with it and then start readings, charging people money and telling them all sorts of crap.
Do you know what I have to go through to convince people that Tarot reading is an intuitive thing not necessarily acedemic? Well I suppose you do.
Maybe that could be the latest way to "cleanse" our decks. We could burn the LWB with some herbs and waft our new decks over the smoke under a Full Moon.
Perhaps we could all have a LWB burning ritual...all of us burning them at the same time!!
Thanks again Umbrae for raising the issue.
LOL Mystique! :D I can just imagine it - a circle cast around a bonfire under the full moon, hoards of noisy aeclecticans dancing around and tossing LWBs into the flames ...
Can we can toast marshmallows after the ritual?
With all due respect, I whole-heartedly disagree. I agree that the LWB's can be rather limited in their descriptions, but at the same time, they don't "fluff" up their definitions. I find that sometimes a direct interpretation is what I need. Now, I don't always use the LWB, but sometimes.... And I also agree that not all LWB's are very good, and that a person should memorize them, sometimes they can help.
My two cents worth!
It is good to disagree, even wholeheartedly. I must refer you to the ‘Reading Tarot’ section, and a thread entitled “Not too serious meanings of cards”.
It is the inaccuracies, historical, literal, and general.
I am serious about the lack of quality that goes into the LWB’s, that are then carried out upon the unsuspecting public.
MystiqueMoonlight
21-05-2002, 01:13
I'm not casting any bad vibes on LWBs. it's just that I don't think they should be the "bible" of Tarot the way some people tend to see them as.
Of course in this forum I am yet to meet anyone who really takes the LWB as pure gospel.
Surely you have met people who proudly announce they are "readers" and present their decks, layout the cards and then whip out their LWB to do the reading or recite it like a sermon from a bible.
And if I see one more Celtic Cross spread I'm going to scream! I know the publishers go with what they think is tried a tested, but I ask you, don't you think that some other spreads could be added to the back of these LWB's?
Burn baby burn.....LOL
mooncat2
21-05-2002, 01:19
Well, perhaps they're needed if one is a merest beginner for a while.
But I'll dance around the bonfire on behalf of the Queen of Swords- a free and liberated , independent spirit who has used her life experience well, risen above her emotions , to teach and counsel those in need.
No LWB ever told me that!
Back when I first got a deck, many moons ago, the LWB was about all that was available, unless you had a bookseller that was a bit knowlegable, and would order something for you like, oh, the brand new paperback "Tarot Classics". (oh, joy!), or even better, a book that went along with a modern, hot off the press deck. :D
I used my cards, in a solitary way for many years, never suspecting all the changes going on in the tarot world.
*Now* I'm working to change how I read, and let go of always using those long-ago memorized meanings, and become more intuitive. Still, once in awhile, the traditional meanings are perfect for the situation at hand.
And I have to admit, I am compelled to keep my LWB's nice and safe from any toasting or roasting. (I still have all my Nintendo booklets, unopened too, but that's a subject for a different forum, LOL.)
fairyhedgehog
21-05-2002, 04:49
Some are better than others. The one with the Goddess Tarot tells you a bit about the Goddesses in the pictures, I believe. The Ancestral Path Tarot LWB certainly gives you this kind of info. The Whimsical Tarot has only a few key words but they give an idea of what the author intended. If the deck isn't a RW clone, and it doesn't have its own book, the LWB may give some hint about what the cards mean in this particular deck.
Of course it isn't 'gospel'. Nor is 'Learning the Tarot' by Joan Bunning, or Thirteen's Basics (sorry Thirteen ;) ) I work by finding out all the meanings I can for that card in that deck. Then when I read (which I only do for myself) I go with what makes sense, feels right, or whatever. The LWB is just one of a number of layers of meaning that is available to me.
I keep all my LWBs. And my cards live in their boxes, where they seem quite happy. Very useful if I want to trade them later :)
Okay, please don't throw things at me but....
I collect LWB's. Don't know why! I don't read them, need them, but I already have enough warmth in my place anyway! No need for a bonfire!
Kiama
slinky_jo
21-05-2002, 07:25
There are so many awesome tarot books around now-a-days, why don't the tarot deck companies swap the LWB for a card with a list of good tarot books? Companies like Llewellyn could certainly do this, as well as making (1) good tarot readers and (2) more money for Llewellyn :D
...ah...Nintendo...You know VGimlet...I worked there for seven years. I was once a professional video game player.
But Nintendo booklets are different than LWB's...good to hear of your growth.
there are some great LWB's out there...
the kazanlar is really a book of fairytales, the medieval scapini got lots of those quirky little details that gets explained in the LWB just to mention two of the LWB's i love.
oh and you got LWB's that are not so little at all - like nigel jackson and vision quest.
but the rest of them, i just chuck em in a box and forget about them until i need them (like once a year or so)
and talking about tarot-books. the most splendid deck-specific book of them all just HAVE to be the tarot of the spirit by Eakins.
i ordered that directly from the states and the postage cost more then the book but it was so worth it.
the LWB to the spirit deck is quite ok too by the way.
umbrae,
might you consider, changing LWB to LWP? ;)
it would be much easier to stomach my friends being pamphlet burners!
(this is just a joke!)
The key word in LWB is ‘little’. Example. The Victoria Regina deck comes with a rather large, VERY well written book. It is NOT a LWB.
LWB is a generic, colloquialism for Little White Poorly Written Pamphlet of Little Value.
Umbrae: Your point is very well-taken & I have enjoyed reading your comments!
I still prefer to keep my LWBs with their decks & in their boxes except for the decks I have used so much their boxes are all worn out. Those are in Tarot bags.
Since I trade some of my decks, having everything intact is better for trading.
My first Tarot deck was the Rider (Smith) Waite, published by Sam Weiser's. At that time, I could not find any books on Tarot so its LWB was all I had. I soon saw it was of no help & never looked at it again. I do not know what happened to it, but do not miss it. Unfortunately, my deck was misplaced several months ago & I miss it terribly! I keep hoping to come across it as I unpack & go through stuff but it has not turned up yet. I hope it did not wind up in what was donated to charity or thrown out.
The LWB for the Chinese Tarot is much like any other LWB but it refers to ancient traditions & folklore. It is a fascinating glimpse of the background for the deck.
On the other hand, the LWB for the Templar Tarot is a Large White Book & includes background information on the Knights Templar & a glossary. All LWBs should be more like this one!
Ill join in the burning, but only with my Conolley's LWB, its such crap lol. MaybeIll whipout some interesting tidits, Ill stick them in the other post that has the not so serious meanings :)
But like to read the LWB laugh at them or look confused as how they got THAT from that picture, then stick em back in the box and ignore them lol
:THP
Oh, I agree that they shouldn't be used as a "Bible" of tarot, but as some people have said, not all of them are crap. Some can be very useful, especially when I need a quick reference. Some are good, like the one that comes with the Gendron Tarot which explains the symbols on the majors, while some, like the one hat comes wit the Dragon Tarot, are crap.
I sometimes wish that the LWB's would go into more detail. My Spiral's LWB is ok but all its done is made me want to know more about the deck and I'm having a really hard time tracking the official book down.
But in a way its done me a favour because when I look at the cards I can use my feeling first before I look at the small descriptions in the LWB lol I've never looked through the LWB's that come with the Hanson Roberts or the Diamond - probably because they are pure R/W.
The Celtic Dragon comes with a full size book explaining each card in detail.
truthsayer
22-05-2002, 14:07
to me LWB'S are like those manuals you get w/ the new can opener or radio or vacuum cleaner or pre-fab furniture. those instructions are usually awful. i'd rather use or put it together w/o the instructions but in case of of mental block it's there w/ a key word that kicks me out of the block. i keep LWB's books and the boxes for trade value. i used to throw both away but i have found it's better to trade a deck w/ both. then there are ppl like my husband who want instructions on how to pour liquid detergent into the washing machine. i tried to change him but it was a lost cause. just like it's useless trying to change ppl who like their their LWB's. opinions are like noses--everybody has one.
one way or another, LWB's and tarot boxes don't worry me. it's just a part of tarot. if you don't like them, contact publishing companies and voice your beefs. it's kind of like politics. let your voice be heard. be part of the solution. however, decks w/ nice accompanying books are more expensive and this could be a burden on those who can't afford set like the victoria regina but can the gendron. everything comes down to money in the end. a decent LWB would cost publishers more money so why bother to do a good job unless there is more money in it?
AutumnMoonfire
22-05-2002, 21:53
I save and ignore my LWBs. I do understand how someone could get into using them, I just get annoyed. The jokes about QofSw pretty much covers why. I do have a heavy book dependance though...I use the books for my decks a lot. I have begun trying to use keywords with my Goddess Tarot instead. I tend to be thick as a plank with the intuition stuff, so that was why I got so dependant on the books...Maybe my renewed interest in Tarot means it is time for me to start listening to the voice within...
Red Emma
23-05-2002, 21:28
Okay, guys, what the hell is an LWB?
A LWB is the 'little white book' that comes in the box with the cards. :)
I've found one good use for them (besides the occasion mental prod if I'm not seeing anything for a certain card)..... put the LWB in the deck box first, leaving it on the side where the flap of the bottom lays against the inside. That way you can slide the cards in next to it, ensuring they don't snag on the little flap and get damaged.
Originally posted by Kaz
haha, lol, though you are right umbrae.
still i keep the lbw's, just to have the decks complete :)
me too, even though they get in the way when i'm taking out and putting back the cards into their boxes.
I keep the LWB's in a drawer, but I never use them,I just keep it like I also keep the boxes to have my tarot deck complete.
dolphingirl
05-09-2002, 13:52
Hi
I actually prefer to buy a deck without a big book due to the money and the fact that I really want a box for the deck. The sets that don't have a box for the deck alone drive me up a wall :) as to the LWB I actually like them quite a bit to jog a memory while reading and also I sometimes like the no nosence attitude of them. No extra fluff just the bare basics.
Dolphingirl
DarkElectric
05-09-2002, 15:23
LWB's are really good for several things.
They are very effective for brushing Cat fur off sheets, pillowcases, or clothing.
Crumbs can be swept up very quickly from the table using LWB.
Pages can be torn out, and folded into little paper triangles to clean the toe jam out from underneath your big toenail. ( It works to remove gunk from under fingernails too)
And ripped out pages serve amazingly well to make mini paper airplanes to throw at your friends.
LWB's can be placed under the uneven leg of a table to right it, so you can delete chasing your coffee around from your list of AM aggrievations.
See, they CAN be useful... :P
I do totally agree with not being tied to the LWB.
but i do admit that i always read them first. why? i like to get the artist's interpretation of the card. As has been mentioned, there are a number of possibilities for each card. I like to see what was in the mind of the artist/creator when they creted the card.
For example: I dearly love my new "The Secret Tarots" by Nizzoli (though I haven't yet read with it)
In this deck the 4 of wands shows a naked (well topless) girl running through the forest. Now, to me, 4's usually represent something to do with the home. So what, she's a forest sprite? then why is she wearing a coat she is pulling off her body to expose her breasts? So i would really like to know why the artist chose to express this card in that way.
Of course, the LWB didn't help me at all. The whole thing is a story; instead of describing & explaining the cards, there is a long story made up about tarot, that really doesn't explain any of the cards. So alas, i have to devise my own meaning anyway!!
(i'll say she is meeting her hunnie on her lunch break for a little romp in the back woods of the house!)
Good rant, Umbrae. :)
Personally, LWBs don't bother me because I think they are improving over the years and anyone who falls in love with the tarot learns to move beyond them by instinct. They're like training wheels on a bicycle, meant to help in the beginning, but quickly outgrown.
Laurel
Originally posted by Laurel
Good rant, Umbrae. :)
Personally, LWBs don't bother me because I think they are improving over the years and anyone who falls in love with the tarot learns to move beyond them by instinct. They're like training wheels on a bicycle, meant to help in the beginning, but quickly outgrown.
Laurel
That's the theory, but I see so many folks using crutches whilst their legs are perfectly fine.
WillieHewes
13-09-2002, 09:46
I'm interested in this because I have a website aimed especially at people starting out with the tarot, the same people who *need* a LWB, or they can't make sense of anything.
I have actually got a sort of LWB on that site, trying to give the meaning of the cards in a few words, and explaining a bit about why they look the way they do as well, but I'm not sure I did a good job. Anyone want to write a review?
http://tarot.lunaticsworld.com/tarot/Comment.htm
Before I ever had a deck, my friend bought one, and she relied heavily on the LWB (it was the russian/st petersburg one, btw). We would talk about the cards together, and I would interpret them by myself, while she corrected me with 'the booklet says that...' arguments. I told her then that there are two ways of using the tarot: one is what you usually see (saw, this is some years ago) on tv, the 'I see a tall, handsome man' way, which is what you get if you use the booklet, and the other to look at the cards themselves, and use them to gain insight in your personality and situation.
She was defensive, but I still think I was right.
:TQS :*
The Queen of Swords is intelligent, well-read, and just. She plays along with the game of making fun of the old movie and inventing new dialogue, because that appeals to her sense of humour. She can beat you at chess. She is unperturbed. The Queen of Swords is not needy in the emotional sense. She can amuse herself alone. She looks like Greta Garbo. What's not to like about the Queen of Swords?
I like LWB's that have been badly translated from Italian or other foreign languages. I've kept them, just to keep them, but the only one that I have seen that was any good came with my Paris Tarot. And it didn't concentrate on divinatory meanings.
Adjustment
14-12-2004, 18:57
I don't use the LWB for anything. Thanks Umbrae for the rant.
not with the cards. There have been a few LWBs I've encountered that I liked, but I agree wholeheartedly they're not of much use to a beginner. Fortunately the first deck I worked with came with a little book that wasn't really your standard LWB (Voyager Tarot), and since that was all I had, I read it religiously. Same with the Thoth, which was my second deck. I learned quite a bit from those two, but learned more from a few real books, and a lot from here. I've learned the most from actually using the cards.
Most of my LWBs have been quickly shoved into a drawer with all my other LWBs and extra cards, and I'm not even sure why I keep them.
I think the cards themselves are the best teacher.
I won't burn mine, but will cheer you on . . . Burn, baby, burn! :D
(I always wanted to say that.)
Nevada
An LWB is like an appetizer, and shouldn't be confused with the dinner. Or maybe they're more like waterwings for people who can't swim yet.... Or training wheels...
Anyway, they're there so that people who don't get tarot yet can feel like they're on some sort of solid ground. You guys here are already initiated. You can already fly. Of course you're going to feel dismissive of these capsule attempts at instruction. It's like thumbing your nose at kindergartners when you've got a degree already. Be nice to the little kids, I say. :)
You guys that are profligately burning the unwanted little white books: Please send them to me. I'll give them a good home. I'll treat them nice.
I generally agree that the LWBs are not as well-written as companion books that come with the decks. I've seen many a definition that has made me raise my eyebrow. But I've also seen many that sparked some of my own insights because of their suggestive clarity.
I disagree with the idea that if one starts out studying the definitions of others, one will never reach a place of reading with creativity and originality. I think it depends on how each person learns. Umbrae learned best by following his own way from the very beginning. I've come to my own ideas and definitions of the cards by first thoroughly studying the ideas of others, then challenging and re-organizing, adding my own impressions here and there, to create a complex network of possible meanings around each card, centered on my own keywords, some of which are close to traditional meanings, others which aren't.
On occasions, out of frustration I sometimes grab the LWB for the one finicky card in a spread I'm not getting a personal "read" on. And usually, what happens is that seeing the set definition of the card, I don't just "cut and paste," but rather find it sparks my own set of ideas, and gets the creative wheel out of the mud it's stuck in.
I think the key point is not to simply memorize and regurgitate the ideas of others, but rather use them as the spark to set one's own creative fires ablaze.
Oh, and I neglected to mention that I really like a point I've seen Umbrae make elsewhere - that it's more about reading the spaces between the cards than the cards themselves. And when this is the focus, it becomes hard, if not impossible, to proceed based only on regurgitated meanings. I find that looking to see how cards relate to one another often tells me more than anything else, and it tends to get me considering aspects of the cards I didn't before. And of course, no LWB can give you definitions for what it means when Card A is in Location B directly across from Card C, so when it comes down to it, I think even the biggest devotee of LWB-based readings is gonna have to fly free at some point.
And of course, my bottom line is that it's a matter of what works. If someone has a totally non-intuitive, by-the-book approach, but gets results out of tarot, I don't see that as being any less valid than any other method.
I think the LWB can be great!
Instead of buring them, can we encourage them to grow and become even more useful. Maybe they just need some tender guidance. he he he
I'd like a LWB with charts of comparison and relationships, with keynotes to spark the memory/intution, rather than a single interpretation.
I really like a LWB that says something about the deck creators idea on the card, or their take on tarot generally.
The basic versions I'm happy to send to one of you to get burnt. (I really couldn't burn anything that is so close to being a book.)
souljourney
14-12-2004, 22:36
So if you guys don't like the short LWB definitions of a card meaning...what do you think of decks like Voyager and Sacred Circle that have a one word meaning written on the card?
I am new, and trying to use my intuition. I do pretty well if the spread is small and "isolated". I get really messed up when in big spread where everything mingles. And the LWB doesn't help with that either, neither do the bigger companion books.
Ivy Rhiannon
15-12-2004, 00:46
So folks start with a LWB. A line is given about the meanings of the cards. It is read and memorized. Then the new deck owner attempts to begin 'readings'. This is akin to reading crib notes on a flight manual and attempting to fly an airplane.
Reading the LWB will not improve your psychic abilities. You become a mimic...a fraud. Burn the book.The little white book will ignite at four hundred and fifty seven degrees Fahrenheit. Roast a sausage.
ROTFLMAO!!!! My thoughts exactly Umbreae! :D
Ivy Rhiannon
15-12-2004, 00:58
LOL Mystique! :D I can just imagine it - a circle cast around a bonfire under the full moon, hoards of noisy aeclecticans dancing around and tossing LWBs into the flames ...
Can we can toast marshmallows after the ritual?
Yes we can! I'm not saying that the LWB doesn't give info into the deck, but if you are just repeating "scriptures" from a book, your not really giving a reading!
Listen to this...
Shadowolf from http://roswell.fortunecity.com/leehigh/340/shadow/shadow.htm
says...
"Which leads me to another warning...I have seen readers who are rely totally on their intuition, and I have seen them make some glaring errors--particularly in their "advice" to the querant...I am absolutely stunned when I read posts of people who ignore the cards, using their "wonderful intuition"-- puhlease. In my mind this is simply someone who wants to have the power of divination without doing any work. That may be fine for fun and games, but I would not want to have a reading by such a person."
Never have I met a person who relied on thier intuition and ruined someones life! I have however relied soley upon a LWB and not had a lick of sense in a reading!!!
So is the bonfire clothing optional? :D
LWBs tend to use archaic and simplistic meanings. There is just not enough space to cover the subject adequately. A book or several books would be more comprehensive and a better choice. I suppose it can be argued that a LWB is better than nothing, especially for an absolute beginner just starting out and/or to get an artist's interpretation.
Personally, I don't use LWBs unless there is no other way to get information (like for some oracles). I think that for the most well-rounded reading it's a combination of intuition and knowledge from books.
tatsi
Fudugazi
15-12-2004, 02:16
78 Degrees of Wisdom, the book with which I started in the Tarot, has between three and pages pages per Major arcana, and at least two pages per minor - more for thos she considers "gate cards" (cards that bring you to another dimension). Although based on RW, Rachel Pollack compares several decks and traditions and discusses the symbolism at length, draws the learner's eye to this or that detail on the card (hence teaching you to look independently too) as well as giving some upright and reversed divination meaning (my only gripe is that she sticks to the RW umbering, which makes no sense to me ow, but on the whole she is not a slave to RW). All that together makes for a very rich experience, even when you are starting out, and you can draw on many elemments to try and undersand meanings. She also works on spreads, and how to read cards TOGETHER in order to get a dynamic reading. I never even looked at any LWBs.
Later I discovered other books, and different aspects of the Tarot. When I am stuck, I still go back to Rachel, she ahs such in-depth knowledge of her subject.
But there are no miracles: for good intuitive readings, you can't get enough practice readings - and this is important: playful reading exercies (thee are examples in this forum) and you must not only read for yourself, but for other people, as you have less emotional attachment to the outcome. And lay the book by - even Rachel Pollack would be the first to say that!
Well, I know what an LWB is, but what is ROTFLMAO ? Please...anyone ?
love
rosyelf
spoonbender
15-12-2004, 03:09
Well, I know what an LWB is, but what is ROTFLMAO ?
It means "Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Ass Off" :).
firemaiden
15-12-2004, 03:32
I love this old thread.
At the risk of appearing contrary... I do have to say I have kept all my little white books. I use them for micro-blanco-bibliomancy. :D :D (Sometimes they are very accurate.)
[QUOTE=napaea]So i would really like to know why the artist chose to express this card in that way.
Of course, the LWB didn't help me at all. QUOTE]
I wish that was the use of the LWB. I agree with most of you: as I have said before throw the !@#$%^& book away. EXCEPT! if you must read for yourself it helps to have an outside interp so you don't just interperate the cards as you WANT them to mean. So I never burn any bridges or LWB's.
Also: the LWB can give you a feel for the philosophy or mind-set of the creator.... sometimes.
I would always recommend to any new student. Buy two decks. Tape one deck card by card into a notebook. Leave two pages for each card. Write your own meanings first, then hunt down a good book (“Tarot Reversals”) and begin expanding. Examine how you interpreted the archtypes.
As time goes on you will find that some card meanings expand, others contract. Your interpretation one time of the 4 of cups must be different than other times, due to context.
So that is a great idea! I've been trying to figure out how to organize my tarot journal, and I think I might have just stumbled onto a way to do it! Thanks, Umbrae, even if the thread is 2 years old. I'm glad I got my hands on it, so to speak! Just the right advice just when I needed it.
L'Etoile
15-12-2004, 21:19
A LWB is the 'little white book' that comes in the box with the cards. :)
I've found one good use for them (besides the occasion mental prod if I'm not seeing anything for a certain card)..... put the LWB in the deck box first, leaving it on the side where the flap of the bottom lays against the inside. That way you can slide the cards in next to it, ensuring they don't snag on the little flap and get damaged.
That's EXACTLY what I do. Plus I find that the cards kind of rattle around in the box without the LWB like they're lonely*wink*. It's filler.
And hey, I needed it when I was a merest beginner and no body I read for (friends and family) ever seemed to mind that I was reading out of a book. And you guys, please be nice to those of us with no PSYCHIC ability at all. I'm going off the meanings I first learned from that same LWB, expanded, of course. And once one learns the patterns and interrelationships within the cards it becomes a little easier, but books do have their place. As do boxes. All my decks live in their boxes (except one which came in a huge box which got crushed--that one lives in a different box) although those boxes sometimes have boxes...
And please, don't dis the celtic cross. It's my most commonly done spread simply because it's so easy and blanketing. More complex spreads are good, yes, but when the annoying kid who sits behind you in math class sees you playing with a deck and asks for a reading, you want to blow his socks off with something relatively easy for yourself.
But if you all want to roast yours I'll be happy to partake of the marshmallows afterwwards...*GRIN*
RedMaple
16-12-2004, 11:16
:TQS :*
The Queen of Swords is intelligent, well-read, and just. She plays along with the game of making fun of the old movie and inventing new dialogue, because that appeals to her sense of humour. She can beat you at chess. She is unperturbed. The Queen of Swords is not needy in the emotional sense. She can amuse herself alone. She looks like Greta Garbo. What's not to like about the Queen of Swords?.
I'll second that. And she's got wicked wit and a powerful voice.
And who says divorcees were manipulative bitches? Yikes. Or that widows were unhappy? Many women had their first freedom when they became widows, for the first time they weren't the property of any man, and maybe even had some financial independence.
I like LWB's that have been badly translated from Italian or other foreign languages. I've kept them, just to keep them, but the only one that I have seen that was any good came with my Paris Tarot. And it didn't concentrate on divinatory meanings.
(Edited to add: In Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, the narrator talks about writing technical manuals. And of course, he notices directions of all kinds. His favorite one is the directions that came with a bicycle made in Japan. The first step was: Assembling bicycle requires great peace of mind.)
I want a LWB (from Japan?) that says: Using Tarot require great peace of mind.
And please, don't dis the celtic cross. It's my most commonly done spread simply because it's so easy and blanketing. More complex spreads are good, yes, but when the annoying kid who sits behind you in math class sees you playing with a deck and asks for a reading, you want to blow his socks off with something relatively easy for yourself.Boy I couldn't agree more with your last statement. But I think the Celtic Cross is one of the hardest spreads for a new person to Tarot can try. It's a Large Spread. It's a LOT of cards to try to integrate.
Myself, I slim down. Three to five card readings can be hugely informative. Sometimes less is more, I say! ;)
And, welcome to the forums, L'Etoile! :D
WalesWoman
18-12-2004, 14:18
I like LWB's to get the feel of what the author wanted to get across in a nut shell...then I take it into consideration and never look at it again except to keep the extra two cards seperate from the rest of the deck and keep the cards from getting hung up on the flap. The one that came with the Sacred Rose was actually quite thick for a LWB, so I really enjoyed reading it and the book that came with the deck.
There is nothing wrong with using the author's DM's, and coming up with my own as well...the idea is to gain understanding and I'm not too proud to borrow from others. I don't believe in limiting myself to the LWB or the companion book, but I'm grateful for the added dimension I might not have had before.
I'm also not going to say if I use this stuff it makes me less of a reader or that it's limiting my abilities...that's just silly. If I knew it all without any outside resources...I wouldn't need Tarot either. It's like life, you take what you can use from it and go on from there.
WalesWoman
18-12-2004, 14:24
I like LWB's to get the feel of what the author wanted to get across in a nut shell...then I take it into consideration and never look at it again except to keep the extra two cards seperate from the rest of the deck and keep the cards from getting hung up on the flap. The one that came with the Sacred Rose was actually quite thick for a LWB, so I really enjoyed reading it and the book that came with the deck.
There is nothing wrong with using the author's DM's, and coming up with my own as well...the idea is to gain understanding and I'm not too proud to borrow from others. I don't believe in limiting myself to the LWB or the companion book, but I'm grateful for the added dimension I might not have had before.
I'm also not going to say if I use this stuff it makes me less of a reader or that it's limiting my abilities...that's just silly. If I knew it all without any outside resources...I wouldn't need Tarot either. It's like life, you take what you can use from it and go on from there.
If I designed a deck, which is highly unlikely, but let's say I did... I would most definitely include a Little Book (maybe I'd not make it white though), which I would expect the user of my deck to read. Because I would explain in just a few words what I was trying to get at by designing the card as I did.
I would be most annoyed if people just chucked away my words of explanation as if they were rubbish, and just tagged their own meanings onto my hard work. (Not that they could not continue my work later when they started using my deck, but I would expect them to use my explanation as a starting point.)
I made an 8 of Swords for the Second Aeclectic Community Tarot deck. Now, I made it after studying long and hard a certain aspect of the 8 of Swords which I decided to emphasise. Now, if the buyer of my tarot deck decided not to bother to even read my explanation (I mean, if it were a part of a 78 deck that I was selling on the commercial market) I would find this very disrespectful towards my efforts in trying to explain why I made the 8 of Swords like I did. My 8 of Swords is here:
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/project/3/08_swords.shtml
Intuition is highly over-rated on Aeclectic. It is only a part of reading Tarot. Quite a large part in fact, we all end up by using intuition, but it's not the be-all and the end-all of tarot reading. Because Tarot does have a certain structure. It's not a crystal ball. If it were a crystal ball, we would call it a crystal ball and not tarot.
I tend to agree with Shadowwolf who was quoted by Ivy Rhiannon. (I don't agree with all Shadowwolf said - but he/she does make a good point and by making his/her point so virulently, it makes people sit up and think.)
Diana, if you wrote an LWB, I would most definitely read it!
But many of these are boilerplate things, repetitions of the same basic information that the same publisher provides with all their other decks. There's nothing original about them. That's why I put many of mine away in a drawer. If I've read one, I've read them all.
There are more unique LWBs that I at least read through to learn more about the deck before I put it away. Then there are those that I keep available for easy reference, because they contain tiny jewels of information or insight.
I had the impression of some sort of magic in Umbrae's burning, though perhaps that's not what he meant, and I realize the idea of burning books of any kind is repugnant to most people. I don't think I could ever do that, myself, and even recently had a stack of old paperback novels that I couldn't throw away but felt compelled to find homes for, as I would for kittens or puppies. But there are metaphorical reasons for burning, such as in spell work. I guess I had the idea that was the sort of thing Umbrae meant.
Going back to study that 8 of Swords. :)
Nevada
Formicida
19-12-2004, 10:59
It's funny that this thread came back up now, because I was just talking to my boyfriend about something similar yesterday. He has a couple of decks but reads only very rarely and generally doesn't take the Tarot as seriously as I do. I asked him what his approach was to reading, and he said he just lays out the cards and looks them up one by one in the LWB. Part of me was scandalized by that--I mean, how could you possibly get a meaningful reading that way? But he says it's enough to make him think, and seems to reject the idea that one reading could be meaningful than another.
I still don't really understand. I'd go crazy if I didn't have a range of different meanings to choose from. I'm always looking for more. (I keep the LWBs, but only refer to them if they're the only reference I have by the artist. I'm thinking of Lady Frieda Harris's interpretations of the cards stuck in the back of the LWB that comes with the Thoth...often very different from Crowley's.) I use little white books, and big colorful books, and lots of my own personal thoughts, and I'd miss out a lot if I didn't have all of the resources. But I guess it's okay to limit yourself if you're not that serious about Tarot.
Thought I'd interject a voice here that wouldn't ever be heard on aeclectic :)
firemaiden
19-12-2004, 11:05
I'm thinking of Lady Frieda Harris's interpretations of the cards stuck in the back of the LWB that comes with the Thoth.
That interests me greatly, my Thoth didn't come with a LWB. I'd love to see what Lady Frieda Harris has to say.
jumptothemoonyea
19-12-2004, 12:29
http://www.rahoorkhuit.net/library/thoth/
follow the links to 'The 22 Trumps' or 'air', 'water', 'earth', 'fire'
and click From the Little Booklet link - the text there is from Lady Frieda Harris's original essay
srgnosis
13-10-2005, 13:07
I've found the LWB with the Thoth deck to be extremely helpful. Of course, there's three interpretations involved. Plus, I also use Waite's book, and Crowley's larger Book of Thoth.
And my own intuition, and relations between the cards, and the astrological symbols and kabbalah correspondences, and...
And I'm a beginner. :-)
I don't usually use my LWB anymore. Now that I got my tarot journal complete, I just use that.
~Azarial~
with box and LWB:
1) It may happen that I trade a deck and I don't think it is fair to trade it away without LWB or box when it came with them to me.
2) Decks in boxes usally are easier to store or to take out. I have quite a lot of nice baggies but I really prefer tugging the deck in its box in a baggy and then in my purse (hey, I am Virgo!).
3) I usually don't use the LWB unless I get stuck with something in the deck or I want to know why the artist or creator choose to have card xyz look like this, so maybe the LWB gives a hint about it.
4) The LWB usually fits snuggly in the box.
Emeraldgirl
19-10-2005, 01:31
I keep the LWB with the deck in the box it came in and like catlin in a bag. If it's a large book and deck set like the Victoria Regina or the Celtic Dragon then I get rid of the packaging.
I cleanse my cards on the Gentle cycle, and dry by the light of the silvery moon.
I charge them by plugging them directly into the Bonneville Dam electrical generator - capable of 526,700 kW...that's power baby...
Most LWBs are worthless as hell for helping you understand the cards, but they usually contain valuable information for dating decks, determining edition, etc. Didn't read every post. Don't know if this was mentioned already.
fairyhedgehog
30-07-2006, 04:59
Most LWBs are worthless as hell for helping you understand the cards, but they usually contain valuable information for dating decks, determining edition, etc. Didn't read every post. Don't know if this was mentioned already.
I don't remember ever seeing this point made and it is a good one!
I hang on to all my LWBs, although I don't use them. Now I know why!
yummymallow
31-07-2006, 17:28
Though I definately agree on viewing the LWB as any sort of gospel to reading Tarot cards, I read through them when I'm first starting to "commune" with my deck. I go through it first, get my own impressions, then I want to see what the maker was trying to express in each card. I don't want reduce decks as just replicas of 78 themes, as we wouldn't have so many different decks if there weren't so many different interpretations of those themes. But outside of that, I use my intuition and experience with the Tarot to interpret the cards.
SittingIdiot
13-04-2007, 09:23
Best use of a LWB (for me) is trying to understand the artisit's concept of the image/archtype/myth. As an artist myself, when asked what one of my paintings means, I always reply, "That's entirely up to you; you're the artist now (creating your own mental image and meaning)." But, with icons or other story-telling imagry, I like to know where an artist is "coming from". Most LWBs never give you this info.
A good example is Ferenc Pinter's artwork in "Tarot of the Immagination". I love Pinter's artwork in the deck and the LWB is useless (it's a Lo Scarbeo publication, after all). Frustrating in Pinter's deck is my ignorance when it comes to European royalty; many of the court card personalities are recognizable, but not to me. After some researching, I found that the Page and Knight of Coins are Stanley and Livingston. This does not change my read of the cards but rather enhanses it a bit, keeping in the back of my mind what the historical figure might add to a reading. I really love Ovenall's Victoria Regina Tarot for this reason; the court persona are fun to read and play with and eventually led me to read a biography of HRH, "Mum".
On the other hand, sometimes the artist gives you wa-ay too much information, such as Maritxu Guler's decks. She must be quite a witch (I mean that in a really respectful, complimentary way), but I am not a member of a Gnostic Church, the Golden Dawn or BOTA and probably will never go there. I really can't "get" the use or application of "The 22 Paths" (of Qabala - or whatever PC spelling is used for this word), and wont be reading the Sefir Yetzera anytime soon, even when Rachel Pollack recomends it.
My resolution is people; read for others, with others, especially "tarot-ists" to learn about cards.
blue_fusion
13-04-2007, 10:05
how about...
A Moste Majestick Procession of LWB Nobility Tarot? i bet that'd make for a VERY thick deck. :D
wytchwood
13-04-2007, 10:34
I keep mine in a little box with all the 'spare' cards as well. I don't want to throw them in case I want to trade, sell, or give away the deck, but they get right on my nerves- along with the extra cards- faffing with them every time I want the deck out! And trying to wiggle the box lid flap past it without folding the paper down ggrrrrr. So I take em out. But, I have found that with some decks, the box doesn't stay closed without the extra padding, and they all fall out if you don't keep em upright.
zoe (keeping it really mundane)
how about...
A Moste Majestick Procession of LWB Nobility Tarot? i bet that'd make for a VERY thick deck. :D
Just for the record.
The LWB for the Vanessa is the finest LWB ever written. I may frame mine. It’s brilliant, and should be emulated by every publisher.
blue_fusion
13-04-2007, 18:42
Just for the record.
The LWB for the Vanessa is the finest LWB ever written. I may frame mine. It’s brilliant, and should be emulated by every publisher.
:P lol i actually did take part in making that LWB. :D