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dadsnook2000
25-03-2005, 01:19
I have started this thread for two reasons:

FIRST, I'm sure many of those following this thread have questions about the views I've offered. You have all been very kind in letting Moonspirit and I persue this chart exploration. So, feel free to comment or question whatever interests you RELATIVE TO THIS CHART and my posted comments.

SECOND, our moderators have also kindly stood back. They have solid experiene with astrology and will likely differ in their views or want to expand on what I've offered. That is what this forum is all about so I welcome their inputs of any nature.

Thank you all for letting me share in this exciting venture. Dave.

Minderwiz
25-03-2005, 07:35
Hi Dave,

I enjoyed your interpretation - an excellent tour de force of modern Astrology and a very good demonstration of the art of the Astrologer.

I'm currently reading William Lilly's volume on natal Astrology and if you don't mind I'd like to try out some of the ideas to give a counterpoint to the modern view. I'm not claiming that this approach is any better than the modern view and indeed, seeing that I'm using this as an opportunity to see if I understand some to Lilly's ideas, the posts are likely to be significantly worse. However, it might shed some additional light on the points that you've made.

Please bare with me, as I'm rather busy over the weekend and will need to do some additional checking. You might like the approach in some instances, as there's far less emphasis on sign placements than the modern view.

Also Lilly uses the fixed stars as well as the planets, so there's something of a sidereal dimension to this.

Finally, I'm also going to try out the day/night birth techniques that used to be used.

dadsnook2000
25-03-2005, 09:12
Yes, the "the older" approach seems interesting. I used to love it when Noel Tyl did some of his writing in the old style to illustrate the drama and impact that it could have. I'll definitely look forward to your version and reccommend that the other list members also review it carefully.

Of all the astrological authors, I think that Noel Tyl had the most influence on me in terms of my style of writing. I see him in some of my posts. Of course, my methods are quite different from his. Dave.

moonspirit
25-03-2005, 16:23
I wanted to also say if anyone had questions or comments please feel free.This is a really nice opportunity to see how a person's chart can really correspond or give insights to events in life internal and external. So,if there is anything that I can add to something I said or didn't say (that might help with understanding)...... ask away!

Blessings
moonspirit

Minderwiz
25-03-2005, 22:01
There are several problems in using a traditional method of natal interpretation. Firstly 'what is traditional' ? Astrology dates back over 3000 years and the methods of analysis have changed and are changing. There is always a chance that trying traditional methods, will use methods from a variety of eras, rather than applying a clear and developed method. I recognise that this could well be a problem and will try and indicate where I think it applies.

Perhaps more obviously, using classical writers to provide a 'cookbook' approach can easily result in anachronistic interpretations. Society is different now that it was 400 years ago - some would say it has changed beyond all recognition. Much of classical astrology, like modern astrology, looked at the key issues raised by clients. These would be much more likely to be issues of survival - Will my baby live? Will my husband recover from this illness ? and issues of family and land - Will I inherit part of my father's estate? I will try and update the interpretations as much as possible but any failure here is mine.

William Lilly was a practising Astrologer. As such his book has many comments about which classical method works, or indeed doesn't work. He's clearly often in a situation where he needs quick answers for clients, and so will cut corners or go for a more simple approach than a fully considered approach.

As he says, 'if one should follow the niceness of the ancients in every particular, it were impossible to judge one Nativity exactly in half a year's time' Or in modern English, 'if I followed and applied all the rules or the tradition it would take me more than six months to do a complete natal analysis.'

I've followed his lead and looked for the obvious keys, rather than examine all the detail.

Minderwiz
25-03-2005, 23:04
Moonspirit was born after sunrise, so we have a diurnal or day birth. Day births are ruled by the Sun, which is masculine planet and appropriately in a diurnal or masculine sign.

The starting point for an analysis is the temperament of the native (Moonspirit in this case)

This is assessed from the Ascendant (Leo) it's ruler (Sun also in Leo) planets in the Ascendant (Saturn and Mercury), the Sun itself, the Moon, the Part of Fortune and the Lord of the Geniture (the planet with most essential AND accidental dignity in the chart). Temperament is based on the dimensions of Hot and Cold and Moist and Dry and yields four base types - Choleric or Firey, Saguine (Airy), Melacholic (Earthy) and Phlegmatic (Watery)

In Moonspirit's case we have a predominance of Hot and Dry or choleric. I have noted the Leo placements of Ascendant and Sun (Leo is a Hot and Dry sign and the Sun is a Hot and Dry planet). Saturn is Cold and Dry, Mercury is Dry (being occidental of the Sun). So far, the temperament is very Dry and fairly Hot.

The Sun on it's own (rather than as ruler of the Ascendant or in aspect to a planet in the Ascendant) is evaluated according to the Season of the year. In this case Moonspirit was born in Summer and Summer is Hot and Dry. So we have further testimony for Hot and Dry.

The Moon is evaluated according to it's phase. In this case it is in its first quarter and this is treated as Hot and Moist (the Moon's phases have the same temperature as the seasons). So more Heat but a little less Dry.

The Part of Fortune is in Sagittarius, which is a Fire sign and so Hot and Dry. and lastly the Lord of the Geniture is Jupiter, which has more essential and accidental dignities despite being in detriment. It's position in the eleventh and its conjunction with Venus are important accidental dignities as well as being direct in motion and free from combustion. Jupiter, like the Sun is a masculine planet and is placed in a masculine sign above the horizon in a day birth. It is therefore said to be in Hayz (like the Sun) or appropriately placed for the time of birth. Jupiter is a Hot and Moist planet in a Hot and Moist sign, so it adds to the overall 'hotness' of character but takes away a little of the 'Dryness'

Overall, Moonspirit is a choleric or firey person though this is likely to be somewhat constrained by Saturn on the Ascendant. Whilst the impatience, rashness, agressiveness and action orientation of the Choleric are there they will be subdued or confined by Saturn - there is a dash of melancholy that will hold in those urges, at least for a time. When the dam breaks though it's best to get out of the way :) The malefic side of Saturn may be tempered by being in the Terms of Venus and, as Venus is in the Terms of Saturn there is some mutual reception between the two. Venus is also sextile to Saturn. This is likely to prevent the 'dash of melacholy' becoming to introverted.

So, we have a basically Choleric person, though one with a control on the harsher side of the firey nature and a control which has something of a benevolent side to it.

Minderwiz
26-03-2005, 02:27
Three further steps can now be taken. The first is to look at the Significator of Manners. We would traditionally start by looking for planets in the first house. There are two here, Saturn and Mercury. As Saturn is so close to the Ascendant, I would give it some priority but the Sun as it's dispositor and Mercury will also have an influence. Neither Saturn nor Mercury is essentially strong in their positions. So Saturn may suggest a more timorous manner than we might expect from a Leo Ascendant, Leo Sun. Lilly quotes Leo as giving overtones of a grave, sober or discreet party, yet a little cruel. Saturn also gives some gravity, though as we've seen above also some melancholy to the manners and a tendency to like being alone.

Mercury adds a little turbulence and inquisitiveness to this - so we have someone who might also be a little greedy for knowledge. Moonspirit should therefore seem a sober well composed individual, a little timorous in dealing with the outside world, yet clearly interested in gaining knowledge, often for it's own sake.

I'll continue with the other two significators in the next part.

Minderwiz
26-03-2005, 05:10
Now we turn our attention to Moonspirit's 'wit' - in the sense of overall intelligence and innate mental abilities. This is read from the positions of Mercury and the Moon. Mercury represens the rational mind, the Moon the irrational mind, the desires, affections and the overall strength of the brain.

In Moonspirit's chart Mercury is weak in essential dignities but very strong in accidental dignities. Mercury is also strong relative to the Moon. In Lilly's terms 'reason shall principally overmaster the other extravagant passions - especially as Mercury is in a 'commanding' sign (one between the Vernal and Autumnal equinoxes, where days are longer than nights) and the Moon is in an 'obeying sign (where nights are longer than days). Mercury is also sextiled by the benefic, Jupiter, whilst the Moon is in opposition to Mars. So we have a strong rational mind. The intuitive mind though may go through phases of quite sharp emotions or impulses.

In terms of general fortune, this would be done through weighing the dignities of the planets. Only the Sun is in the sign of its rulership (and is the Triplicity ruler) - it's also ruler of the Ascendant and planetary hour ruler but is not well placed - nevertheless it has fair overall dignity. It is also the sole dispositor of the chart. Jupiter and Mercury are badly placed by essential dignity but have quite a lot of accidental dignity. Venus and Mars still have a fair level of accidental dignity. Indeed no planet ends up being on the weak side of the strong / weak range. Saturn is probably the overall weakest but does have mutual reception with Venus.

I would conclude that Moonspirit is likely to be moderately fortunate in life and it's unlikely that there will be significantly long periods of misfortune. This does not necessarily mean fortune in money terms - it would include health and happiness, indeed it's quite possible to have a fortunate life and remain poor in money terms. Issues of wealth, in a monetary sense, are the province of the second house.


Lilly also uses the first House and related planets to describe the physical characteristics of the native. Lilly admonishes his reader to remember that country of birth will influence the reading of the chart - Lilly uses the example of Danes and Spaniards to illustrate his point. I'm not going to try this fully here, except to say that if Lilly were judging an Englishwoman of his day, he'd probably go for being on the tall side, fair or reddish hair, and well proportioned, though possibly with a tendency to put on weight and therefore (like all choleric types) needing regular exercise.

Minderwiz
26-03-2005, 05:41
I've dealt with a traditional approach to temperament, character and outward appearance. The rest of a natal chart reading would look at each area of life - not necessarily in turn. Issues of wealth, estate, career, marriage, health, etc would be looked at. It's probably overdoing things to go through those in any detail, unless there are questions on them. They do, though, deal with the 'real' issues of life (and death).

The purpose of the natal analysis is not so much an exercise in it's own right - most people know what their character is, even if they don't admit it publically. However it does serve as the essential background for other steps.

These relate to making predictions as to the future events and the timing of those events in the life of the native. Lilly uses a variety of techniques for these predictions including, solar returns, primary directions, profections and transits as well as planetary return dates.

I've ignored the outer planets, as Lilly was not aware of them. My feeling is that if he somehow had become aware of them he would have used them - unless or until he found that they didn't yield useful predictions. My feeling is that the crucial issue for him would have been house positions, angularity and aspects made by swift moving planets. Therefore Uranus in Moonspirit's chart would have beenseen as signficant, as would the sextile of Pluto to the Moon and the Moon / Neptune conjunction - the latter two more for predicitions.

Lilly's life overlapped that of Kepler, who invented the minor aspects (called by Lilly 'new aspects,) he certainly used these in his forecasts, though not it seems in his character analysis.

Lilly doesn't make any use of aspect patterns. Indeed aspects seem to be given relatively less importance than they would be today, as demonstrated in Dave's analysis. Aspects from Venus and Jupiter on the one hand and Mars and Saturn on the other are important in terms of favourable or unfavourable outcomes. Aspects between house rulers are used where issued of two or more houses are related - such as looking at illness or career.

I've not been able to draw fixed stars into the analysis to date - mainly because none have come into a prime persepective so far. The Moon is conjunct Antares and in terms of 'wit' this might add a twist of rashness to the emotions and desires.

Finally a word on the 'twelfth House Sun'. Lilly links the twelfth House to 'private enemies, of witches, great cattle such as horses, oxen and elephants, & sorrow, tribulation, imprisonments, all manner of affliction, self-undoing & and of such men as maliciously undermine their neighbours or inform secretly against them'.

The 'hidden' aspect referred to in the twelfth House Sun thread is a modernism. Dave rejects it in this case and Lilly wouldn't have seen it as 'hiding' in any sense of the word. The Moon rules the twelfth squares or opposition aspects to and from the Moon might be important for twelfth house matters. The Sun as the occupant of the twelfth would find it more difficult to express itself (imprisoned?) but it would be seen as acting behind the scenes, just finding it more difficult to act. Given the Sun's essential dignity, it can overcome this debility, it just requires more effort. The Sun represents the 'vital power in the twelfth Lilly would see the possibility of being maligned or defamed by enemies or even in extreme circumstances 'imprisoned' in some way. As there are none of the various other conditions for imprisonment in Moonspirit's chart, I don't expect that to happen. On the other hand running a horse farm, or practicing witchcraft might well be a source of great success.

moonspirit
26-03-2005, 14:28
Dear Minderwiz

Thanks so much for adding your expertise to my chart interpretation. I have a little feedback and a few questions if you don't mind.


I do have a temper I think much of that has to do with me being too sensitive. I am also bad with holding grudges.
I have never seen interpretations with terms like hot,dry, moist etc. It is a very interesting approach.
I wanted to ask what is the significance of my 1st quarter moon. Moist and dry equates what exactly.


Also what does accidental dignities mean?


The attributes of the 12th house are interesting. I went to a religious boarding school as a child and sometimes it felt like I was imprisoned. : ) Lots of rules and regulations.


I have always had a strong attraction to mysticism and the paranormal even as a child and have recently been exploring those interests. Tarot being one of them.


Does lilly give physical descriptions related to other areas in the world? The put on weight easily characteristic is quite true and whenever I maintain a regular exercise regimen it falls off easily too.



It will take awhile to fully understand the terminology and meanings of some aspects but this interpretation has been very insightful.

Thanks again
moonspirit

Minderwiz
26-03-2005, 19:12
Moonspirit.

Thanks for the feedback. The Hot/Cold Moist/Dry classification dates back well into classical Greek times and they are often referred to as the four humours. This classification occasionally comes up in modern psychology, though under different names. 'Hot' is high energy, quick reactions, always active. 'Cold' is more lethargic, slow to act very deliberate. 'Dry ' is structured and discrete - the scientific method is an excellent example of 'dry' thinking. Moist is more adaptable, taking the shape of it's container (if any) and able to go in any direction. The 'internet' is 'moist' in this sense or lateral thinking, or thinking outside the box.

The four main types in practice are:

Choleric - hot and dry
Sanguine - hot and wet (the classical ideal)
Melancholic - Cold and Dry
Phlegmatic - Cold and Wet.

These types are not just character types, they extend to physical characteristics - a choleric (hot and dry) person should be highly active and therefore is likely to be relatively thin and muscular - rather like athletes. In your case I made an allowance for Saturn, the Melancholic planet, on your Ascendant, which will slow you down somewhat, both in terms of reactions but also in your metabolism - hence my feeling that weight gain could be a problem unless you excercise regularly.

there's an excellent article by Lee Lehman which looks at the humours and lifestyle

http://web.infinito.it/utenti/a/astrologica/humors.htm

The humours also were important to medical treatment as most disease was attributed to an imbalance of the humours compared with your native type. Over a lifetime the type would change.

In assessing temperaments, it was felt that the season of the year was important. People born in Summer were seen as more likely to be choleric, people born in Winter more likely to be phlegmatic. This is reflected in the way in which the Sun and Moon are handled. In your case it's a Summer birth and in Summer the Sun is Hot and Dry. The Moon phases are similarly analagous to the seasons. So the first quarter moon is seen as being something like Spring - the beginning of the cycle and so is Hot and Wet (like Spring)

There are several methods of determining the temperament from a natal chart, I've tried Lilly's method but other Astrologer's of his time may have given slightly different emphasis than he does.

Lilly warns against drawing physical characteristics, especially complexion, from the natal chart without reference to nationality or circumstances. However he doesn't then go on to do much more than recognise that Spaniards (Hispanics) tend to be a much darker complexion than Danes and that this needs to be considered in drawing conclusions. It's unlikely that Lilly had much opportunity to draw up a databank of characteristics for other ethnic groups than his own plus a few other european types. I'd therefore be quite cautious in drawing physical complexion conclusions relating to other ethnic groups. For example, should a choleric Afro-Caribbean type be lighter than the 'norm' or darker than the 'norm' ? Modern lifestyle often means that people who are 'choleric' can still be overweight. Your comment about easy weight loss when you exercise and diet confirms your basic choleric nature.

Accidental dignities are those that come from the position of the planet in the chart - they are an 'accident' in the original sense of the word - so Saturn being on the Ascendant is not an essential part of 'Saturn' - it could be any other place in a chart but in your case of your chart it's exactly on the Ascendant.

The use of accidental dignities has been reduced overtime. Dave is very keen on angularity, which is an accidental dignity. He might make some allowance for Retrograde motion or very slow motion (coming to a stationary point) but I doubt that he will make allowances for Mercury being occidental or oriental from the Sun (occidental means that it is seen in the night sky after sunset, oriental that it is seen before Sunrise) or that a planet is combust or 'under the beams' (obscured by the Sun)

In a way, the modern use of aspects adds a new layer of 'accidental' dignities - Lilly would only weight a planet that was in a favourable aspect to the benefics (Venus and Jupiter) or an unfavourable aspect to the malefics (Saturn and Mars). Other aspects would be generally neutral but would have specific importance for specific issues. The same is true of 'essential' dignities - modern Astrology does give more importance to planets in their own sign or in exaltation. Issues of Detriment and Fall are more glossed over and almost no one uses Triplicities or Terms (apart from those like me who are interested in the history of Astrology).

In a very real sense, this analysis has only scratched the surface, as I've only used the first House - the most important house for sure but still by no means the whole picture.

Can I end by asking you a question - was yours a difficult birth? There's a view that Saturn on the Ascendant indicates a difficult birth and in my case (I also have Saturn in Leo on the Ascendant - but a Libra Sun) my survival was in question at one stage.

Saturn on the Ascendant also can indicate that you appear older than you are or have to take responsibility at young age - I note from your reply to Dave's interpretation that this was true in your case.

moonspirit
28-03-2005, 16:10
Thanks so much for the explanations!!! Very interesting this hot and dry,cold and wet etc.....categories. I wonder what they would put stomach problems under. I have always had sometimes severe digestive problems.

As for a my appearance day, my mom seems to feel like I was one of her easier births. I was the only one she had at home and I was her biggest baby at 10 pounds.:D She said the experience was not bad at all. The only anxiety would be That my father and her were having problems at the time and he was not there in california with my mom. I have 2 sets of younger twin siblings and in both of their births there was trouble but not with me.

Thanks again for lending me your expertise.......... I have a good foundation to start from now and I'm grateful! If you have any more questions for me let me know.
:)
xoxoxoxoxo
moonspirit

dadsnook2000
28-03-2005, 22:44
Minderwiz, this has been quite interesting. On one hand, the process (by today's life style) seems almost like a different kind of astrology. The terms used are actually a kind of "technospeak" for that day and age. On the other hand, given the populace's understanding of those terms, the views expressed have a certain strength and certainty to them that the clients must have respected and taken comfort from. Society and health in those days may have seemed highly insecure and astrology had to be one of the major comforts available to some people.

Choleric - hot and dry; Sanguine - hot and wet (the classical ideal); Melancholic - Cold and Dry; Phlegmatic - Cold and Wet. In older astrological texts (books that I once had which were printed in the early and mid 1900's) used these terms to describe body-types and the health, diet, and personality characteristics of individuals. So, this way of using astrology has not long been out of the today's mainstream.

As you mentioned, my approach is more "modern" in that I use aspects, angles and (to some degree) houses while placing much less emphasis on signs. A lot of this has been due to several 20th century developments, in my opinion:

1) Dane Rudyhar, for one, introduced phases as well as a greater appreciation for dexter, sinister relationships of Mercury and Venus to the Sun. He seemed to be a huge influence here in the US. Phase interpretation was extended from just the Sun and Moon to include certain planetary pairs (by Marc Robertson) and then to be applied by anyone/everyone to any pair of planets. Planets having differing relationships in their astronomical cycles relative to the Sun were given greater influence in astrological forecasts. I remember a lady from New York who, for many, many years, sent out a monthly forecast called Planet Watch which related personal and world events to points where retrogrades and directness occured.

2) Cyril Fagan, Brig. Firebrace, Bradley and Stahl all brought the Sidereal Zodiac to our attention. Some would remember them for their mathematical complexities (in converting tropical to sidereal measurements without having Sidereal ephemerides, or calculators to speed the work -- every one used logs, trig. and interpolation methods to achieve accuracy) and their long winded agruments and great number of proposed methods for calculating and using a great number of strange charts. BUT, what they really did was make us questions sign meanings. STRANGELY, the Tropicalists (most of us/you) think the Siderealists haven't made their case -- while the Siderealists see their sign-usage-meanings as being correct and the Tropical signs beeing way of kilter. They point to this as being the reason why some Tropicalists are placing less emphasis on sign meanings that don't work and are moving to aspects and houses. How is that for a shift?

3) Ebertin's mid-point research, using his father's work and Vitt's (spelling) work, all of it stemming from an Italian astrologer (Bonito?) in the 1500's, has provided a sea-change in astrological thinking.

4) Here in the US, Noel Tyl had a huge impact in the 1970s thru the 1990's with his great interpretive style, disciplined psychological approach and (most of all) his popularization of mid-points and solar arcs. Diversity and inter-use of various methods became the norm.

5) Finally, I believe that the late/modern/current British researchers have shown us great insights into harmonics, mundane, cyclic methodologies. This whole group has done as much as anyone to make astrology workable and precise.

With all of these stellar influences, it is easy to see how current western astrology has moved from the practices of Lilly and older influences. We have been conditioned to look for new and exciting ways to astrologize. Now we see various Indian systems coming into popularity with all of the rigid rules and practices that were supposedly typical of classical astrologers. Full circle? No, just more diversity.

Diversity is what new students of astrology have to face. This is why I am always trying to expose them to new ways of thinking and to move beyond natal chart mentality. I don't believe that it is ASTROLOGICALLY HEALTHY to spend years on learning how to interpret a natal chart. Rather, I feel it is important to move on to progressions, mid-points, solar returns, harmonics and lots of other stuff rather briskly. Once you play with the other toys it can bring a perspective to natal charts that will enhance and speed up your learning processes. You can always go back and fill in the gaps as long as you have the essential basics down and stick to them.

Lilly stuck with the basics and was also pragmatic enough to use what worked and to avoid mumble-jumbo (we call it astro-babble today) that didn't serve his client base. This is why I sometimes question small things that list members say -- I don't want them to screw up the basics, I do want them to think about things rather than just accept them.

I think we will need to start a thread to explore secondary progressions next. That would provide a working example that could launch everyone from natal charts into future studies and astrological growth. Dave.

Minderwiz
29-03-2005, 07:43
Dave,

Thanks for the feedback.

I didn't mention Sinister and Dexter aspects in my attempts at applying Lilly's technique. He does make a lot of use of them though. For general information the 'Sinister' aspect is made by going forward through the Zodiac, (anticlockwise) so for example the 'Sinister Sextile' of Mercury in Aries is to a planet in Gemini. The Dexter Sextile would be to a planet in Aquarius (backwards through the Zodiac or clockwise around the chart).

As the natural diurnal motion of planets is rising in the East and setting in the West. a dexter aspect follows the natural motion of planets and is therefore considered stronger and more direct. A sinister aspect goes against the natural motion of the planets.

Lilly spent some time in his book considering the best way to rectifying a birth chart. As he uses primary directions, he needs a highly accurate time in order to make predictions. The time pieces and sundials of the day did not have sufficient accuracy to record so a method was needed to pinpoint the time of birth. He looks at a number of techniques that were developed by Ptolemy and others, and then says that in his experience the only way to do it is to collect the dates of a number of important events in the client's life and use these to rectify the chart by looking for appropriate aspects or planets changing Terms.

In th current edition of the Astrological Journal (of the Astrological Association of Great Britain) there is an article which more or less repeats Lilly's findings (though without giving him credit) and then goes on to discuss how to do this easily using a computer (which I'm sure Lilly would have sold his soul for :) )

On planetary cycles - the emphasis that Lilly places of planets being oriental or occidental of the Sun are because of their position in the retrograde cycle and that they are slowing down for their station retrograde at the stages where he gives them some debility.

To planetary cycles you can also add lunar nodal cycles which were also used - I'll post a little more on that later.

I think your idea for a thread on secondary progressions is a good one - it may well help again to sharpen the vocabulary of the Art.

isthmus nekoi
29-03-2005, 10:54
Hi Dave,

It's been fun going through the chart interpretation threads even thought I haven't had the time to read all the posts yet - reminds me of when we all had a look at Martha's chart.

Although I'm not as experienced an astrologer, I thought I'd add my initial impressions. I don't really have a step by step method and find I am immediately drawn to two themes w/this chart:

1) limitations as signified by the prominently placed Saturn conj ASC, chart ruler (sun) in 12th.

2) expansiveness as signified by 4th house moon in Sag conj Neptune, Venus conj Jupiter, sun in 12th. Lack of earth planets to ground.

Theme one and two offset each other somewhat. If Jupiter/Venus, Neptune/moon were on the ASC, I would consider it a much more challenging chart.

dadsnook2000
29-03-2005, 12:19
isthmus, while "steps" in themselves are not as important once you pass a certain stage, I've found that following some form of process prevents a few mistakes. And yes, the moment I saw Saturn on the Ascendant I knew that was both a problem and a solution. My steps include:

1) Taking two or three minutes looking at the Sun-Moon, Saturn-Moon, Venus-Mars, Jupiter-Mercury, Saturn-Jupiter and Uranus-Saturn phase relationships. These give me a short-cut view of Personal attitudes, family conditioning, maturity and poise in relationships, the thinking process, ones sense of business and worldly interchange, and how to live within and/or change your worldly environment.

2) Looking at the major aspect patterns to see how the energies support and/or conflict with each other. This includes grasping the shape of the chart and which of the chart angles are activated.

The rest of the steps depend upon the impressions I get up to this point. In some cases I work houses and derivitive houses into the profile. When there are few major aspects I go to mid-points to see what is happening. If the chart looks mild and not full of challenges, and the querent has issues to consider and face, I go to secondary progressions or to Solar Returns to see what has come into play over time. I guess we develop an intuition for these flexibilities.

But, when doing a chart for someone I always try to identify the conflicts, get some confirmation, and then provide a path to a solution -- someone has to live with that chart, grow with it, and at some point hopefully transcend it. So, I do what I can to help in those areas. Dave

PS, We might want to follow-up this natal chart exercise with a secondary progression example. We'll need a candidate for that. Dave.

isthmus nekoi
29-03-2005, 23:22
Ah, yes, that's a good way to approach the chart - to seek the challenges in the chart b/c often that's where ppl will derive their motivation. I also like to look at home environment/upbringing if it strikes me clearly esp if the chart represents what appears to be a more impressionable or permeable person. The thing I find about nature/nurture is that it seems the media is always trying to find some universal law to dictate how the two interact. Some ppl are just more influenced by their environment, I don't think you can say environment has the same impact for everyone. (Esp w/traumatic events, I find they will not necessarily "scar" certain individuals although the media would have us believe otherwise.)

btw, we could always take a public figure for the progressed chart exercise (like Martha) if you'd like to start that asap. That may also get more ppl involved. Solar return might be a good one as well b/c it is somewhat like the natal.