South Node, North Node

I have a couple of questions concerning nodes:

- how can I determine my south and north node? On astro.com I am given my true node, but not the south and north;

- does the south node/past-present north node/present-future work the same way in the Southern Hemisphere? Shouldn't people born in the S Hemisphere reverse that?

- what's the true node (symbolically) in relation to the South and North nodes?

Thanks!

As far as I understand it, the true node is your north node. You can work out your south node from this, as it's 180 degrees opposed to the north e.g. if your true node is 5 degrees Gemini, then your north node is 5 deg Gemini and your south node is 5 deg Sagittarius - hope this makes sense

The Nodes are the points where a planet's orbit (the Moon's in this particular case) cross the ecliptic. The ecliptic is the apparant path of the Sun around the Earth. The North Node of the Moon (or any planet) is the point where it crosses the ecliptic from South moving North. The South Node is it's polar opposite (as explained in the post above), with the Moon crossing the ecliptic from North moving South.

All planets have nodes but only the Moon's nodes are used regularly - mainly because they progress around the zodiac much more quickly than those for other planets. In the Moon's case they take some 18 yeas to complete a circle of the zodiac.

Now because of the wobble of the Earth on it's axis (caused by the proximity of the Moon) the nodes actually vary slightly as seen from Earth on a day to day basis. the 'True Node' is the node that's actually observed. The Mean node averages out the wobble effect.

You will find that there is a fair amount of discussion as to which of these is the best measure to use. The main difference, apart from the variation in position, is that the Mean Node is always retrograde, but the True Node can move in direct motion for some days and such periods can be taken as significant (usually as stressful periods).

Minderwiz said:

The Nodes are the points where a planet's orbit
~
, but the True Node can move in direct motion for some days and such periods can be taken as significant (usually as stressful periods).

Click to expand...

Minderwiz,

You said a lot but what did you say?

I take it the True Node does roughly coincide (close enough for government work?) with the North Node and the South Node is 180 degrees opposed to the North?

Namaste

Ah Tonto - I'll try again,

There are two nodes North and South.

You can measure these as either 'True' (for both) or 'Mean' (also for both).

So, 'True' is a way of measuring the North node and the South node - it incorporates the fluctuations in the nodes (which are points on the ecliptic) due to the 'wobble' in the Earth's rotation. Remember the Nodes are positions relative to Earth and if the Earth wobbles then their position appears also to wobble. Averaging their position makes life easier (though possibly at the cost of important Astrological information).

'Mean' North and South nodes are the average position of the nodes - that is the position averaging out the effect of the Earth's wobble.

As The North node can be measured either way you can have both a True North node and a Mean North node. 'True' has no separate existence from either 'True North' or 'True South' node. Refering to 'True node' simple means that the measurement of both nodes includes the effect of the Earth's wobble

Now most ephemerides (books of Astrological tables of day to day positions of planets and points) and websites will give either True North node (the True South node being 180 degrees away) or the Mean North node (the Mean South node being 180 degrees away). There is no point in listing both North and South nodes (whichever measurement is used) because once one is known then so is the other.

if you're OK on that I'll try and answer the question about any differences if you live in the Southern hemisphere.

The Nodes

True Node is another way of saying 'North Node' from astro.com. The south node is always the same degree as the north node but in the opposite sign and house.

I think the reason the south node is not shown in astro.com could be to do with the associations of the north node (or true node as it can otherwise be called). The north node is said to be a 'getting to' point in the chart, an area of the chart we should be paying close attention to, to incorporate into our life - the north node could be the challenge laid down to us if you like, as the south node is often considered to have a past connection, something that, if you believe in past life, you may already have an understanding or experience of. There is much more to the nodes.

I don't know about reversing this for SH, haven't researched this.

The best book on the nodes that I have ever seen, bar none, is Jan Spiller's Astrology for the Soul. You can read more about it here: http://www.janspiller.com/books.php (scroll down a bit; it's the second book listed).

Hi Pipkin

The reason why Astrocom and all programs and ephemerides don't bother listing the South node is that it's a redundant exercise - once you have the North node, you automatically know the position of the South node. It has nothing to do with interpretational meanings, though traditionally the North node has been seen as benevolent - so it's a more friendly approach to the listing

As I tried to point out in the previous posts, True node is not the same as North node - 'True' is simply a definition of the measuring system used (for both nodes).

The Moon crossing a nodal point begins a cycle (similar in principle to the cycles of the lunations) these could be measured from a starting point of the North or South node. In fact most cyclical approaches use the lunation cycle from New Moon to Full Moon and back again. Any difference between the Northern and Southern hemispheres depends on the extent to which you feel that sign meanings should be changed to reflect the reversed seasons. The vast majority of Astrologers don't consider this a useful approach - though of course that doesn't make them right

There are some approaches which keep to a nodal cycle, and I'll deal with those in my next post.

A book I have found helpful is The Astrologer's Node Book by Donna Van Toen. She offers several possible "meanings" for the Nodes in general, including "meaningless clutter," "past and future karma," "how you relate to your environment," and "points of good luck and bad luck."

She then describes implications for the locations of the Nodes in each house and planetary aspects to the nodes in the birth chart.

Minderwiz said:

Ah Tonto - I'll try again,

Click to expand...

Wow! You sound just like my wife/boss/friends! Must be some kind of theme here.

Minderwiz said:

There are two nodes North and South.

You can measure these as either 'True' (for both) or 'Mean' (also for both).

So, 'True' is a way of measuring the North node and the South node - it incorporates the fluctuations in the nodes

'Mean' North and South nodes are the average position of the nodes

'True' has no separate existence from either 'True North' or 'True South' node. Refering to 'True node' simple means that the measurement of both nodes includes the effect of the Earth's wobble

Click to expand...

Ok! I got it now, thanks. So if only one node is designated on a chart I know the other node, will be 180 degrees opposite the defined node. True or mean is just a difference in the accuracy of the measurement of the node. True takes in the earths wobble, mean is just that the mean.

Is there enough of a variance between the two (True vs. Mean) to make a significant difference in a reading?

If only one node is denoted on a chart, does that mean the other node is de-noded on this particular chart?

If only one node is denoted on a chart, how do I know if it is the North or South node? This may seem extremely simple minded (hence my handle - Tonto) but is it simply by the position of the node in the chart? North will always appear in the 7 - 12th house, South in the 1 - 6th house? (Please don't be offended by my ignorance, I am asking the question in good faith)

minderwiz said:

if you're OK on that I'll try and answer the question about any differences if you live in the Southern hemisphere.

Click to expand...

mmmmm, maybe I'll save that one for another day!

But I do appreciate you taking the time to educate me and also your good natured willingness to let me poke you a little!