Question about the limits of Astrology

I’ve been reading a few things about Astrology, a subject I know virtually nothing about. Obviously, I am left with more questions and doubts than answers. I read the Astrology threads almost everyday, and noticed that people here are very friendly and helpful, so I will dare to post one of my doubts…

I would love to understand how is that Astrology can help someone to see his life in a broader sense. I mean, not just learn about the kind of personality or individual characteristics one has, or about the events one is most likely to meet in the future; I would like to know more about the supposed possibility to learn about oneself in a “cosmic” sense. I could be related to the notion of “karmic astrology”, I am not sure. I read that the study of the 8th house can teach us a lot about it (I have Neptune in the 8th house).

Anyway, what I need most is to know your opinion. To what extent can an individual chart go? Can it reach a person’s “spiritual” dimension? Or is it particularly focused in the level of the psyche, or the soul, depending on the language one uses? What do you think about the idea of exploring “our mission in life” through Astrology?

Well… thank you in advance, and excuse me if I sound confused…

Silvia

What's it all about?

Astrology is based upon centuries of practice and observation. It has been contaminated over time by the lack of undocumented speculation and an informal learning, teaching and sharing process -- but it's core practices have remained intact. More recently (the last 200 years), observations and their documentation have steadily improved and astrology has been extended and somewhat solidified in terms of its basics.

It is now recognized, for example, that the natal chart is only a portion of what an astrologer can use to help one better understand one's life and to shape it to some degree. In earlier centuries there were imperfect ways to progress a chart to "see" the future or to answer immediate questions such as where did lose my watch. Today there are many proven and sophisticated approaches to almost any aspect of life and experience, both for people and events.

The limits of astrology are really the limits of our knowledge and skills. It is not easy or quick to learn astrology but its premis is simple -- we are part of this world, this solar system and universe and there are influences that come from our world and universe that directly impact us. To the extent that we can recognize these influences and categorize them by observed effects, we can "see" what a person might become, "how" they tend to act, "where" they might best succeed in life, "who" they may better relate to.

It will take more than this one posting -- my 1000th by the way -- to answer your question to a fuller and satisfying degree. This thread will initiate a dialog of opinion and experiences which will, in total, better answer you. So, stay with this thread and its responses. Good luck in your search. Dave.

Dave

Congratulations on your 1,000th post - I really do look forward to the next 1,000!

smleite.

In general terms I agree with Dave, the question is more about the limit's of human knowledge than simply about Astrology. I don't regard Astrology as 'scientific' in the modern sense of the word, so I'm not talking about scientifc knowledge. Astrology draws on other ways of 'knowing' including the 'psychic' as well as the application of rules to situations. There are times when the 'knowledge' comes from an understanding of the 'picture' in the chart rather than simply from the rules.

You should also realise that Astrology is not simply about the natal charts of people, indeed for a long time it was Mundane Astrology, the Astrology of nations and peoples that was seen as the pinacle of the discipline.

Now to be specific about your question relating to a person's spiritual dimension, there are a lot of Astrologers who will give a resounding 'Yes'. There are many excellent books written in this area - one mentioned in a recent series of posts is Jan Spiller's Astrology for the Soul. There's also Alan Oken's 'Soul Centred Astrology', and a huge tradition of Esoteric Astrology coming down from such writers as Alice Bailey. That tradition looks at the very nature of life and whether all matter in some form or other partakes in life. There are others on this site far more capable than me of explaining that Approach to Astrology, so I'll leave any development to them.

I'll just sound one note of caution though - by the very nature of the issues that we are dealing with, there is no way of providing 'proof' in the 'scientific' sense. No one can demonstrate the objective truth of your spiritual nature or the nature of any past lives that you may have had. What can be done of course is to demonstrate it to your subjective satisfaction. That's the kind of 'proof' that underlies the answers to the sort of question you are asking.

How very nice that dad's actual 1000 post is about astrology. I too am looking forward to the next milo-posts.

You've opened up some very profound questions. While I don't think a natal chart is limiting, I do believe that it is a good indicator of how we can best use our gifts, where we need to work and learn, and what to avoid.

That is a lot of information for a few houses and planets. So I think it's important to add transits when studying your own chart. Like Tarot, sometimes it's hard to "read" for yourself. Transits should clairify a lot of issues in your natal chart.

Knowing yourself

Some more thoughts on your question about truly knowing yourself.

The natal chart is 1) a view of your location on earth as it related to the universe around it, 2) a view of your family environment as you experienced it, 3) a plan for growth -- this plan includes both assets and challenges for you.

You can look at your natal chart at each of these three levels and you can look at your natal chart through various filters that will highlight some things while hiding other things -- this latter approach lets you examine yourself piece by piece but will not show you the whole picture. You can see where, when and how you entered your universe -- judging the financial aspects of the economy, the social interaction between nations, the months and moments leading to your birth. But, in summary, we can say that your chart represents your "potential" self.

A good astrologer would look at your natal chart as well as other charts, and then would discuss certain aspects of these charts as they related to your experience up to this point in time. This discussion would show you and the astrologer how you lived out your symbols, what you reacted to, what you used to build your personality and experiences. From this other charts could be looked at, but most reasonably, you would both examine what symbols and patterns were coming up and the methods which you could use to respond to these opportunities. In this way you could grow to your potential.

There is also a very sophisticated school of thought that recognizes that you can, and sometimes do, grow out of your chart -- you reach a crises point and adopt a whole new tangental way of approaching life. In other words you might adopt a secondary birth chart and better respond to its meanings and symbols than you would to your original birth chart.

The end point is that you have a plan, you may choose to follow or bend that plan, you may use all of your charts symbols and patterns or you may choose to focus only on a portion of them. Getting to know what your plan is, and then being able to see how well you are following it as well as understanding why you are deviating from it is how you truly get to know yourself. Of course, it helps to take several other parallel approaches as well so that you can deepen your sensitivity to the world around you and the way you interact with others. After all, we are not lonely islands, we are a highly political set of beings that litterally live off of and through each other as well as through ourselves. Perhaps others following this thread will also contribute their views. Dave.

growing out of the natal chart?

Dear Dad,

I've never come across that thought. Can you elaborate? Perhaps a new thread might be appropriate as it sounds like a heavy subject.

<<hugs>>

wizzle

For Wizzle

Wizzle, just a digression to answer your question. A couple of decades ago I was reading all of Jane Roberts book on the Seth material. Seth was a non-living entity that Jane channeled for. Of the many book she wrote in which Seth's remarks were carefully documented one book talked about how we change our life direction when we become aware of certain information or experiences. Jane and her husband were vacationing at York Beach, Maine, and saw another couple that vaguely resembled them -- that couple was not dancing and seemed vacantly obsorbed in their drinks. Jane immediately got up and started dancing. Seth later explained that she had projected this other couple and then rejected their lack of initiative and joy in their lives. Seth went on to explain that Jane and her husband had then started on a new life path and that all of their following experiences reflected this new version of them which was so unlike their old selves.

Well, an astrologer can't ignore that! Since all of the book's comments of Seth were not only documented but dated and timed I immediately started running charts. Now, you have to realize that Seth always claimed that astrology as it was commonly practiced was not reliable and consistent. Jane also distrusted astrology. Yet, I had done my form of chart work on her and her students and found that they reflected their charts, as I did them, quite well. As I remember it, the chart for Jane's York Beach, Maine, event seemed to work as a new basis chart in place of her original natal chart.

I had done some other speculative work along this line back at that time. Those few charts that seemed appropriate really work well. But, it is unproven -- just interesting in terms of my experience with this approach. I've heard that others have done somewhat similar investigations or have worked with cyclic charts and used them. We could explore this after the summer months as I have a web-site to finish building and to launch first. What do you think? Dave.

Dadsnook2000 and Minderwiz, thank you very much for answering. I read (and will re-read) everything attentively. I am becoming increasingly interested in Astrology, but I think I will take it very slowly – it does seem complex and absorbing, not exactly a bedtime reading (and still…). But my interest on the subject is very much like my interest in Tarot – it is not the divinatory aspects that caught my attention, but the possibility to learn more about the place of the human being in the universe.

Thank you again!

Silvia

Hi Sílvia!

I'm a portuguese resident, too ... Então, talvez seja mais fácil escrever-te em português. Acabo de visitar a tua entrada acerca dos limites da Astrologia. Desconheço se ainda é uma questão pertinente para ti, já que tem cerca de dois meses ... Sabes, eu fiz o caminho um pouco ao contrário: comecei por estudar astrologia e o tarot foi desempenhando um papel cada vez mais importante, precisamente por causa dessa questão da integração do micro e do macrocosmos, se é que assim lhe poderemos chamar. Talvez tenha escolhido o tarot pela questão da imaginação e da procura das imagens internas ... Entretanto fui lendo algumas coisas sobre o assunto e um dia descobri um oráculo curioso que se chama The Oracle of the Radiant Sun e que faz a ponte entre os dois campos. É um objecto curioso e dual. Daqueles que nos chamam de vez em quando, no meio da estante.
Best~wishes
PS - É engraçado estar aqui a escrever em português! Mais vale tarde ...

MSC

Aeclectic is an English language forum. Whilst we really enjoy having an international membership, you need to remember that everyone here has some grasp of English, few have any grasp of Portugeuse. If you check the forum rules you will find that posts must be in English.

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=11575