Phoenix Rising wrote:
"It's the planets that rule the zodiac, so it's the number in which the planet represents."
I do not understand this sentence. Are you sure it is gramatically correct? In any case, this is the way I feel, and know, the signs correspond to the numbers and vice versa; in order to find how the planets correspond to the numbers, I think we should look at things like the esoteric rulers of the signs, etc.
"Jesus was not born on 25 December"
That's why I did not say "Jesus", but "the Christ"... The Christ is actually the "reborn" sun, reborn three days after the Winter Solstice - compare the three days between Jesus' supposed death on the cross and his resurrection: souls were thought to remain in the body for three days after death. A more rational explanation is the fact that the days only get longer three days after the Winter Solstice, and not immediately afterward.
sagewriter wrote:
"some sort of pagan festival got merged with a christian one"
Actually, Christianity, when it did not suppress Pagan rites and customs, simply appropriated them. Thus you will find that not only Christmas, but also Easter and Pentecost are Pagan festivals.
Lynda wrote:
"it doesn't really matter whether Christ was literally born on Dec 25 or not, it's all symbolism anyway."
Yes: sun-symbolism.
Phoenix Rising wrote:
"These are the numbers that represent the different planets.
"1-Sun (Leo)
2-Moon (Cancer)
3-Jupiter (Sagitarius)
4-Uranus (Aquarius)
5-Mercury (Virgo, Gemini)
6-Venus (libra, taurus)
7-Neptune (Pisces)
8-Saturn (Capricorn)
9-Mars (Aries)
0-Pluto (Scorpio)"
Yes, that's the traditional list; I have corrected it. Let us compare it with mine:
1-Sun (Leo)
Is not Aquarius the opposite sign to Leo? In Eastern astrology, Aquarius is called the Tiger [though there it is appointed to a lunar year instead of to a solar month].
2-Moon (Cancer)
Pisces, the Fish [plural] has, as a water sign, everything to do with the Moon [which moves the tides]; the traditional mistake of identifying 2 with Cancer is most understandable as Cancer, too, is a water sign.
3-Jupiter (Sagitarius)
At the Numberquest Numerology website, it says among other things, describing the number 3:
"Creative, Optimistic, Enthusiasm, Expressive, Charming, Humor, Fun"
http://www.iawake.com/numerology/number_3.php
One could add to that "Tiresome", and understand the relation with Aries...
This correspondence is for me mostly intuitive.
4-Uranus (Aquarius)
Does this not sound like a Taurus:
"Practical, orderly, patient, logical, hard-working, loyal, builder, steadfast, frugal, responsible, earthy, planner, materially creative, green thumb, even tempered"?
http://www.iawake.com/numerology/number_4.php
5-Mercury (Virgo, Gemini)
I have only to add to this that 5 is more like Gemini, an air sign, then like Virgo, which is an earth sign. Mercury is more in his element in Gemini than in Virgo, anyway:
"Adventure, change, freedom, exploration,
variety, sensuality, unattached, curious, experienced, periodicity, knowledge seeker, knowledge teacher, traveler, imagination, child-like, playful."
http://www.iawake.com/numerology/number_5.php
6-Venus (libra, taurus)
Why is Venus associated with 6? Because of her motherly qualities. That's why Cancer comes even closer.
I will leave it at this for now. Why? Because it is an off-putting thought to have to explain the next six [which are "deeper" and therefore harder to understand for the rational mind] in the face of sterile acceptance of the traditional. What is required especially for understanding the next six is intuition - like Pip exemplifies. But before I reply to her, I will first look at Crowley's list of correspondences: for, traditionally as well, the numbers correspond to the Sepiroth, the spheres on the Tree of Life.
1 (Kether) - Pluto.
Pluto, Uranus - let us leave it at this: that Kether transcends rational comprehension. But the sign of Uranus, a Sun sign (circle with dot in the middle) with an arrow pointing straight up, should remind the Qabalistic mystic that Kether is located (in the microcosm, the body of man) at the top of the head, corresponds to the Sahasrara Chakra, and is the point of entry through which the Boundless Light streams into the soul.
2 (Chokmah) - Neptune.
Neptune, the planet, is named after the Roman god of the Sea, who corresponded to the Greek Poseidon. I also associate Vishnu with this sphere, one of whose possible etymologies is "fish".
3 (Binah) - Saturn.
Aries is ruled by Mars. Both Saturn and Mars were once deemed "unfortunate" planets (Mars being the god of War and Saturn the nemesis of his son, Zeus. I am eager to expound on this, as Saturn can be viewed as the Roman Satan, the nemesis of Ju-piter, Father Zeus, whose name is cognate to the Latin and Romanic words for "God" [for instance French "dieu"] - God the Father. I will refrain, however, from making an exegesis for which I shall need to refer to (William) Blake - this warrants its own thread.)
I will leave it at this again. I could argue that Zeus (Jupiter is Crowley's assocation with 4, Chesed) transformed himself into a bull (Greek "tauros") in order to capture Europa, carrying her off to the sea (the birthplace of Aphrodite - Venus), but this will get much too far-fetched.
Pip, I find it a bit peculiar that you ask me for reasons - you who say something vague as "Virgo & 8 seem to go together well also". Do not misunderstand me when I call this "vague": what I mean is that you clearly base your judgement on feeling, not reason. I have much "reason" to associate 22 with Sagittarius, though I can hardly explain: I find it wearisome, to explain.
