View Full Version : 16 subelements of emotion
rainwolf
30-07-2005, 09:21
In the LWB of the thoth tarot, it mentions under The Chariot (in the catalogue section) that "The charioteer is seated in the chariot of the body and is drawn by sphinxes, who represent the sixteen subelements of the emotions."
Does anyone know what these sixteen subelements of emotion are? I've looked on the rest of the internet and cannot find it.
I do not know what that phrase means exactly.
But I know that the sphinxs on the chariot card represent the 16 court cards, or rather the 16 combinations of he four elements that are represented by the court cards.
ie. fire of water, water of earth... etc.
So, something to do with that I suppose.
rainwolf
30-07-2005, 10:56
Well that would make sense...the 16 C.c's have very different personalities and they could each sub for emotion.
In the Book of Thoth Crowley says This chariot is drawn by four sphinxes composed of the four Kerubs, the Bull, the Lion, the Eagle and the Man. In each sphinx these elements are counter-changed; thus the whole represents the sixteen subelements. and that is where he stops.
The "of emotions" seems to be added by Harris into the second part of the LWB (it is not mentioned in the first part, where like Crowley in the Book of Thoth she says only the "sixteen subelements." .
The front of the LWB says ...two essays that were originally written as exhibition catalogues for London gallery showings of the paintings in the early 1940's have been located. The first essay [with no "of emotions"] edited by Lady Harris solely from Crowleys writings. He is on record as having approved the contents of this essay. The second essay was her own interpretation of the cards and represents her only written public statement on the cards
So perhaps the "of emotions" is Harris's personal opinion, and if so another reference to it, or further explanation probably doesn't exist unfortunately.
Well it seems SK's insistence that Harris wrote the second article about the Thoth deck may be partly wrong. While reading about something else, I stumbled on a Duquette reference to the LWB.
He also agrees that the 1st article was compiled from Crowley's writing (but does not say by who), however the second article that Kaplan attributed to Harris, Duquettes says
The second, written for the Berkeley exibition, was written by Harris's friend Robert Cecil and was simply titled Exhibition of 78 Paintings of the Tarot Cards by Freida Harris
I went searching and found this info also, at this (http://www.skepticfiles.org/mys5/thothtar.htm) impossible to read website.
With assistance from Robert Cecil, she produced two gallery catalogues for the Cambridge and Oxford shows. The Cambridge catalog was based on Crowley's notes, which were italicized, and met with his approval. He rejected the Oxford catalog, however, since it was not based on his work.The descriptions of the twelve cards published in this year's calendar are excerpted from the Cambridge exhibition catalog. Harris made every effort to promote the cards and raise funds for their publication, including radio talks and lectures.
Always Wondering
24-06-2011, 03:29
Is it possible to consciously classify the sub elements in regard to ego/personality, or is it a more meditative, unconscious thing?
Has anyone done it and written about it? I've been reading Liber Theta and meditating on them but with no real obvious results.
To be clear I was thinking along the lines of ascertaining which parts of ego might be causing challenges or are in need of attention.
AW
Is it possible to consciously classify the sub elements in regard to ego/personality, or is it a more meditative, unconscious thing?
Isn't this what Myer-Briggs is all about? Fill in the questionaire and we'll tell you what the balance of elements is that makes up your personality. Or do you mean something different AW? :)
Always Wondering
25-06-2011, 04:12
Sorry Grigori, I have a difficult time explaining myself lately.
Let me try an example.
I have been in a period of quiet, rest, and regeneration which I have sought and try to accept. But there is part of me that is very discontent and tells me I have no life, I am lazy and I should get a job, stuff like that. I ask the cards, what part of me is this? And pull the Princess of Wands.
I understand that she is earth of fire and wants action. But she is also the avatar of HGA and symbolizes the completion of the Great Work. So it seems her goal and mine are the same. She also rules a quadrant of Cancer which is my rising sign, so I think I should try and understand this rather then throw her back into the deck.
For the first time in my life I am cultivating an awareness of breath, posture, and so on, and having good results with some of my body/mind issues. So why won't she play with the rest of the team? I practice the suggested meditation in Liber Theta and I understand this part of myself less and less. I have had similar experiences with the rest of the courts. They are as conflicted and obstinate as I am. :laugh:
I thought the courts, as sub-elementals would be great tools for inner work. But maybe I misunderstand their use, or am taking a backward approach. I was wondering if any one else has had success or if there were some kind of instruction or insight out there.
Or maybe I am lazy and need a life.
I hope this makes sense, but wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't, it's been that way lately. ;)
I think they put me on medication after I took the Briggs Meyer. :laugh: It was a long time ago. :| Could have been a different test.
AW
The sphinxes are obviously of mixed elements.
The elements are the basis of early medicine, with the humours, and early psychology, with the temperaments—which could today be equated with emotions. Each of the sixteen Court Cards is a combination of elements/temperaments: The Earthy part of Water, etc. As someone mentioned, the Myers-Briggs Types are a good example of this.
Synchronistically, 16 = 1 + 6 = 7 = The Chariot. [Don't you think Crowley knew that!]
Barleywine
26-06-2011, 13:52
In the LWB of the thoth tarot, it mentions under The Chariot (in the catalogue section) that "The charioteer is seated in the chariot of the body and is drawn by sphinxes, who represent the sixteen subelements of the emotions."
Does anyone know what these sixteen subelements of emotion are? I've looked on the rest of the internet and cannot find it.
This post led me down an interesting path. I went digging to see what light I could shed on the "counter-changing" of the "four elements" as represented by the four-fold admixture of the physical characteristics of the four Kerubs visible in the card.
The first thing I found is that in both Greek and Egyptian mythology, the sphinx was a tripartite being (discounting the serpent-headed tail, which did not seem to figure in Crowley's symbolism for this card) rather than four-fold, as shown in this Wiki entry:
"THE SPHINX (or Phix) was a female monster with the body of a lion, the breast and head of a woman, eagle's wings and, according to some, a serpent-headed tail."
and
"Unlike the Greek sphinx which was a woman, the Egyptian sphinx is typically shown as a man (an androsphinx)."
The Bull doesn't make an appearance. Apparently Crowley changed this conceptually to correlate with his use of the Vision of Ezekiel as one basis for his symbolism. The eagle's wings only figure prominently in two of the four images (Bull/Earth and Lion/Fire) since the eagle symbolism is represented in other ways on the remaining two. The head, body (or "haunches" in another Wiki description) and breast were swapped around on all four of the sphinxes.
Next I went searching in those of my tarot texts that might be deep enough to speak on this subject. Robert Wang had the following to say:
"He (Crowley) . . . has, thus, taken Levi's dual sphinxes and turned them into the Four Kerubiim, each of which has four sub-elements, as in the Tattvas."
Volume 2 of the "Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic," under "Introductory Paper on the Tattvas," describes the four elemental Tattvas (the fifth, Akasa - ether or spirit - does not appear to play a part in the sphinx symbolism) as follows:
Vayu - The Aerial Principle, symbolized by a circle of clear blue, the air being obviously a sphere of blue colour. (Man/Aquarius?)
Tejas, the Principle of Light and Heat, symbolized by a triangle of flame red, the shape and colour being both obviously appropriate. (Lion/Aries?)
Apas - Watery Principle, symbolized by a crescent in silver, alluding to the Moon as ruler of the waters. (Eagle/Scorpio?)
Prithivi - the Earthy Principle, symbolized by a square form of a yellow color; the stability of earth being denoted by the square or cube; since the perfect form of earth according to the alchemists is gold, the colour yellow is appropriate. (Bull/Taurus?)
There is nothing clearly linking the four Tattvas to anything that would correspond to the four Kerubiim of Ezekiel. However, we can take a cue from the Chariot card itself, which shows a Bull-headed, an Eagle-headed, a Human-headed and a Lion-headed sphinx. For sake of argument, if the head is considered as the elemental key to the entire figure, then we have a Fire sphinx (Lion); a Water sphinx (Eagle); an Air sphinx (Man) and an Earth sphinx (Bull). From there it's a short leap to conclude that, accordingly, the Fire sphinx has a female human upper body (the Airy part of Fire), a bull's fore-and-hind-quarters (the Earthy part of Fire) and an eagle's wings (the Watery part of Fire). Unfortunately, after that the orderly arrangement seems to break down a bit since it's not entirely clear "what's what" on the other three sphinxes. The heads are all obvious, as are the eagle's lower extremities on the Human-headed sphinx, the human fore-quarters on the Eagle-headed sphinx, and the lion's fore-quarters, eagle's wings and feathery torso on the Bull-headed sphinx.The remainder of the images are rather amorphous (it's almost clear that the Air sphinx has a bull's hind-quarters [but not feet]; the Earth sphinx really throws me, however). The only thing that seems obvious is that the wings on the middle two figures are not significant since the Water (Eagle) symbolism is already accounted for. I would appreciate some additional insight on this apparent vagueness since it's clear what was intended but the execution seems to have lapsed somewhere along the way.
Edit: After further staring at the card (with a magnifier) and absorbing Teheuti's input, I'll make another stab at the rest of the "counter-changing."
Human-headed (Air) sphinx has Eagle's lower extremities - fore-quarters and hind-feet (the Watery part of Air); perhaps a Bull's hind-quarters (the Earthy part of Air); and a sort of furry collar (reminiscent of the bust of Nefertiti) in the "breast position" that is the only representation of the Lion (the Fiery part of Air) that I can deduce. (These last two could be interchangeable; the imagery simply isn't clear enough.)
Eagle-headed (Water) sphinx has Human fore-quarters (the Airy part of Water); Lion's hind-quarters (the Fiery part of Water); and a slightly larger furry collar at the "breast" that seems to stand in for the Bull (the Earthy part of Water). (In this case the former is very clear so the latter seems more plausible, but I still think it's a stretch.)
Bull-headed (Earth) sphinx has Lion fore-quarters and maybe hind-quarters (the Fiery part of Earth); what appear to be attenuated Human hind-feet in profile (the Airy part of Earth); and an Eagle's feathery torso and wings (the Watery part of Earth).
I don't see any particular significance to the different head-dress on each sphinx, but I'm in no way an Egyptologist. Maybe others can weigh in.
I haven't compared these impressions to the deeper Court card symbolism to see if there is any alignment between the placement of the various sub-elements on the sphinxes and the CC meanings, but that's a whole 'nuther study.
Always Wondering
26-06-2011, 15:09
Okay I took the test. I am a INFP.
Maybe this will give me some perspective.
AW
Vayu - The Aerial Principle, symbolized by a circle of clear blue, the air being obviously a sphere of blue colour. (Eagle?)
Tejas, the Principle of Light and Heat, symbolized by a triangle of flame red, the shape and colour being both obviously appropriate. (Lion?)
Apas - Watery Principle, symbolized by a crescent in silver, alluding to the Moon as ruler of the waters. (Man?)
Prithivi - the Earthy Principle, symbolized by a square form of a yellow color; the stability of earth being denoted by the square or cube; since the perfect form of earth according to the alchemists is gold, the colour yellow is appropriate. (Bull?)
The association with the tattvas is certainly another way to look at this, as each of the elemental combinations (not including Akasha, as you said) are related to the Court Cards. One clarification: in the Golden Dawn system, Water is related to the Eagle—one of the symbols of Scorpio, a Water sign, and Air is related to the Man's head as the figure of Aquarius, an Air sign.
Skrying with the tattvas can be used as a way to enter the inner, astral landscape of each of the Court Cards. It's a fascinating process because the complementary colors used on the cards for skrying actually throw you into that astral realm, which some writers have claimed is quite dangerous. Personally, I found it rather trippy - who needs psychedelics when you have tattvas? But, seriously, it can be very profound.
For the first time in my life I am cultivating an awareness of breath, posture, and so on, and having good results with some of my body/mind issues. So why won't she play with the rest of the team?Probably because the game doesn't interest or fulfil her enough. She's too active to sit around. She needs to earth her energy in some way. She wants to express herself and manifest that big letter Yod on the card. Possibly through something creative or artistic. And if she doesn't get her way she might start lighting fires in your mind just for the fun of it.
The Princess of Wands is an individualistic and creative artist. But if her avenues of expression are blocked she is likely to become non-conformist and rebellious. But give her some crayons to play with and she will sit still with all the other kids. :laugh:
Okay I took the test. I am a INFP.INTJ. :D
Barleywine
26-06-2011, 21:34
The association with the tattvas is certainly another way to look at this, as each of the elemental combinations (not including Akasha, as you said) are related to the Court Cards. One clarification: in the Golden Dawn system, Water is related to the Eagle—one of the symbols of Scorpio, a Water sign, and Air is related to the Man's head as the figure of Aquarius, an Air sign.
Skrying with the tattvas can be used as a way to enter the inner, astral landscape of each of the Court Cards. It's a fascinating process because the complementary colors used on the cards for skrying actually throw you into that astral realm, which some writers have claimed is quite dangerous. Personally, I found it rather trippy - who needs psychedelics when you have tattvas? But, seriously, it can be very profound.
Thanks for the clarification. I knew that Scorpio(Water)/Eagle was one of the attributions as shown in several of the other Thoth trumps, but wasn't sure it extended that far into the symbolism for this particular card. I'm taking another look at the images in that light, especially the more muddled ones. It looks like the Bull(Ox) sphinx is still going to be the most challenging one since the "counter-changing" of the parts isn't cleanly demarcated.
Agreed on the skrying aspect. Somewhere in my pile of books I have some very nice color plates of the Tattvas, but I certainly couldn't find them when I went looking yesterday (or maybe it was in the wee hours of this morning while I was pondering this stuff :))
Barleywine
27-06-2011, 00:38
The sphinxes are obviously of mixed elements.
The elements are the basis of early medicine, with the humours, and early psychology, with the temperaments—which could today be equated with emotions. Each of the sixteen Court Cards is a combination of elements/temperaments: The Earthy part of Water, etc. As someone mentioned, the Myers-Briggs Types are a good example of this.
Synchronistically, 16 = 1 + 6 = 7 = The Chariot. [Don't you think Crowley knew that!]
Case, in "The Tarot," talks about "mythological allusions" to the five senses and doesn't elaborate beyond that (at least that I could find quickly), but the sphinxes he's discussing are the two of the RWS deck and have none of this four-fold "counter-changing" into the 16 sub-elements. Just a side comment, not entirely germane.
Always Wondering
27-06-2011, 10:07
Probably because the game doesn't interest or fulfil her enough. She's too active to sit around.
She needs to earth her energy in some way. She wants to express herself and manifest that big letter Yod on the card. Possibly through something creative or artistic. And if she doesn't get her way she might start lighting fires in your mind just for the fun of it.
This is helpful. I halfway had it. I kept thinking in terms of movement for some reason.
The Princess of Wands is an individualistic and creative artist. But if her avenues of expression are blocked she is likely to become non-conformist and rebellious. But give her some crayons to play with and she will sit still with all the other kids. :laugh:
Funny. I didn't want to give her too much negative attention, but ignoring her didn't work. I didn't think of crayons. I think I get it now.
INTJ. :D
A rarity according to wikki. But I already knew that. ;)
AW
A rarity according to wikki. But I already knew that. ;)
Actually, the INs including INTJ are not as rare as is officially claimed. I don't know where they did their original research to get their results, but if you google MBTI Polls, you'll find that people on the net come in strongly as INs in every field surveyed.
Check out our own poll here at Aeclectic:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=12143&highlight=MBTI+Poll
INTJ is third from the highest, although there are almost twice as many INFJs.
Actually, the INs including INTJ are not as rare as is officially claimed. I don't know where they did their original research to get their results, but if you google MBTI Polls, you'll find that people on the net come in strongly as INs in every field surveyed.An online survey is sort of stacking the deck though. If there is one place where you are guaranteed to find lots of INs, it's the Internet.
I didn't want to give her too much negative attention, but ignoring her didn't work.No, ignoring her won't work. She's the part of you that tries to manifest the fiery seed potential latent in the Ace of Wands. This is why in a divinatory context the card usually indicates a person who is freedom-loving, independent, inspiring, creative/artistic, unique, enthusiastic, and possibly somewhat irrational.
As good as breath work is, it may be a bit too placid for this particular aspect of yourself. So you may have to find a something a bit more active/creative that allows your inner Princess of Wands to do her thing. What that may be I don't know. But you can guarantee it will be something unique to you.
Just an observation on the card itself. Note that the Princess wears the plumes of Maat. In her balanced manifestation she embodies all the qualities mentioned above. She is leaping into the flames completely naked indicating her sense of total freedom. The rams head altar and the solar wand are emblamatic of her inspiring and empowering nature. But she has a (sleeping?) tiger by the tail, and this speaks of a possibly darker aspect to the Princess that reminds me of the many stories we hear about the negative side of great and inspiring people. Often they attract people like moths to a flame, and many of them end up getting burnt. (Crowley is a good example. ;)) The Princess of Wands is a wonderful person while she's wearing the Plumes of Maat. But cross her and she's a real self-absorbed drama queen full of vindictive revenge, spite, and selfishness. Note how her outward and expressive qualities turn inwards when her more negative aspect appears.
Also great artists and thinkers throughout history have often been seen as rebels of their time. This reminds me of the Princess of Wands who meets with opposition.
Always Wondering
29-06-2011, 02:05
Well, since I did pull the whole card, I suspect I should consider the darker aspects as well. Perhaps she is telling me more than I realized. The Thoth does that to me. Ask a simple question. . .
:laugh:
I appreciate your feedback.
AW
Always Wondering
29-06-2011, 04:22
Actually, the INs including INTJ are not as rare as is officially claimed. I don't know where they did their original research to get their results, but if you google MBTI Polls, you'll find that people on the net come in strongly as INs in every field surveyed.
Check out our own poll here at Aeclectic:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=12143&highlight=MBTI+Poll
INTJ is third from the highest, although there are almost twice as many INFJs.
I had no idea people paid such attention to these things. It is interesting. The Tattvas are also. I've got to wrap my head the 16 first.
AW
Barleywine
29-06-2011, 11:50
One clarification: in the Golden Dawn system, Water is related to the Eagle—one of the symbols of Scorpio, a Water sign, and Air is related to the Man's head as the figure of Aquarius, an Air sign.
Lon Milo DuQuette, on page 110-111 of his "Understanding the Aleister Crowley Tarot," notes that the order of the four Kerubs around the periphery of Atu V, The Hierophant, is changed from the traditional sequence. Bull/Taurus/Fixed Earth - Lion/Leo/Fixed Fire - Eagle/Scorpio/Fixed Water - Man/Aquarius/Fixed Air, running counter-clockwise from the lower left corner to the upper left corner, is changed so that the positions and astrological references of the Eagle and the Man are switched. This is apparently because, in Crowley's vision of the 23rd Enochian aethyr, he reveals that the Eagle is now associated with the sign of Aquarius and the Angel (Man) is now related to the Sign of Scorpio. No explanation for this is given and, although I've read The Vision and the Voice a couple of times, I can't find any commentary for the visionary text to elaborate on it (this may be elsewhere in Crowley's oeuvre). It is implied in Crowley's transcendent vision, so I must have subconsciously remembered that when I made my initial attribution for the Tattvas and the "elemental parts" of the sphinxes in Atu VII. Now I'll have to go and see how this restoration plays out in The Chariot and in the Court cards.
Barleywine - Thanks for finding this. I had no idea that Crowley didn't follow the traditional sequence. You are right - these images are switched on the Hierophant and Universe cards also, as stated in the 23rd aethyr,: "The Beast and the Scarlet Woman are attributed to Leo and Scorpio. They are the two-in-one Chief Officers of the Temple of the New Aeon of Heru-Ra-Ha. (Note the Eagle Kerub in the 23 Aire is Aquarius. Scorpio is the Woman-Serpent. This is important, for the old attribution is of the Eagle to Scorpio."
Yet, there is an Eagle in the Death card (Scorpio) and in the Prince of Cups (Airy Part of Water?).
Now I'm really confused.
Mary
I had no idea that Crowley didn't follow the traditional sequence.Crowley did follow the 'traditional' sequence he recieved from the Golden Dawn. But his visionary work sometimes threw up puzzling things that seemed to indicate that the symbolic framework he was using was wrong. (Just like Tzaddi is not the Star. ;))
Here's Jim Eshelman on the crux of the problem.
No... long story. Basically a tracing of the four kerubic figures to their oldest representations on Babylonian boundary stones, and in the context of early Egypto-Babylonian astronomy, shows that they were misunderstood entirely through the Medieval times and on up through the 19th and early 20th centuries.
I don't think it's a switch at all. I think people had it {******} up for 1,500 years or more. The real error is in mistaking the eagle as having anything to do with Scorpio, when the only eagle in the sky is Aquila - in equatorial juxtaposition to Aquarius. Similarly, the "man" figure isn't Aquarius but, rather, Ophiuchus - shown in Babylonian boundary stones as half human, half scorpion - and existing in the sky juxtaposed to Scorpio.
There are other details, but that's the biggest part of it. Crowley never had the astro-archaeological data, but was beginning over time to encounter the actual symbolic and archetypal patterns in his visions, and began to see the logic in them.Like Jim says, Crowley connected with the archetypal patterns behind the Kerubs and found that the symbolic map he had inherited from the Golden Dawn did not match up with them. But the trouble is that this mis-match (if that is what it is) is pre-Golden Dawn, and is woven into countless other things. To disentangle it all is obviously a big job, but I think this is one of those areas where Crowley was pragmatic and just used the symbol set he was already familiar with.
Basically Crowley knew something was wrong with the traditional sequence. He got Harris to paint on the cards. But that is about as far as he went with it. Someone else is going to have to clean up the mess called 'tradition'.
Barleywine
30-06-2011, 01:19
Like Jim says, Crowley connected with the archetypal patterns behind the Kerubs and found that the symbolic map he had inherited from the Golden Dawn did not match up with them. But the trouble is that this mis-match (if that is what it is) is pre-Golden Dawn, and is woven into countless other things. To disentangle it all is obviously a big job, but I think this is one of those areas where Crowley was pragmatic and just used the symbol set he was already familiar with.
Basically Crowley knew something was wrong with the traditional sequence. He got Harris to paint on the cards. But that is about as far as he went with it. Someone else is going to have to clean up the mess called 'tradition'.
Thanks for quoting Jim's comments; they definitely shed more light on the subject. I think if Crowley had lived another 30 years he would have sorted all of this out (at least to his own satisfaction, but we would probably still be gnawing on the bones).
My astrological texts put a slightly different but entirely complementary "spin" on the Scorpion-cum-Eagle duality. Scorpio is considered to have a three-fold nature represented by the Scorpion, the Serpent and the Eagle (no mention of Man, but then Man is the "field of operation" upon which these forces work). It's an allegory about degeneration and regeneration, death and resurrection, in which the Eagle takes on the aspect of the Phoenix, the Scorpion symbolizes the self-destructive/procreative release that consumes the Phoenix, and the Serpent the medium of transmutation (watery, as a snake's movement mimics the undulation of waves) by which the Phoenix rises from the ashes (sounds like the Kundalini force to me). The Serpent symbolizes the primal urge to transcend the baser excrescences of one's nature, uniting the lowest with the highest. The Scorpion, bent on eliminating anything superfluous, stokes the flames of self-immolation (or perhaps it perturbates the waters, exciting dissolution), the Serpent, released by the consuming fire (or buoyed by the up-rushing Water), flows upward to find the Sun, the Eagle/Phoenix, loosed from its material bonds, soars into the Air, looking for another Scorpion to invest. Interestingly, although the Eagle can be a carrion-eater (cleaning up after the Scorpion?), the ancients believed the Phoenix fed on Air. These qualities echo the respective Scorpion/Man (Ophiucus) and Eagle (Aquila) correlations to Scorpio and Aquarius that Jim described. They also demonstrate consistency with Crowley's revisions to the Hierophant and Universe cards, and, to a large extent, his use of the symbolism in Death and the Prince of Cups.
Esoteric astrologers are fond of the phrases "a higher octave" and "a higher arc." Hence, Aquarius is a "higher octave" of Scorpio since they are successive "Fixed" signs placed in "Succedent" houses (a double-serving of the "established force" idea) , in a balanced arrangement on the "wheel" with Aquarius farther along the path to self-realization. Aquarius universalizes (Air) what Scorpio releases into solution (Water) through a refining (evaporative?) process. Due to the all-pervading quality of Air, the Eagle in Aquarius has a loftier vantage point and a more trans-personal (11th-house) focus than the Scorpion in its namesake sign; the latter is still crawling on the surface, involved in 8th-house matters (renewal and release; elimination; extraction of essences; sex and regeneration; restoration - in short, the pursuits of Man in his element).
Or so it seems to me . . . :)