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darwinia
07-09-2005, 05:02
Also called the Grand Lenormand, I was dithering about which Lenormand deck to buy and finally settled on this because of the extra artwork and constellations it contains. I'm not interested in astrology but I do like astronomy and thought this would be interesting.

I was also pleased to see a reference to the Trojan War aspect of these cards. Talk about synchronicity, I was mentioning the Trojan War earlier today in this thread:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?p=602575&posted=1

It keeps showing up in my life--must mean something interesting ahead. Perhaps I shall become a keen strategist and die in battle! I love these cards and the information provided in the booklet--particularly about the symbolism and characters on each card.

The constellations appear to be limited to the zodiac signs. I wondered if anyone has thought to use this with a card deck that has other constellations, like the Knowledge Card deck that deals with that or other decks (there aren't too many of them, and so far I haven't found any in Canada.)

It seems to me that this Lenormand deck might be interesting to pair with a deck based more on the science of astronomy and fuller descriptions of constellations. Sort of a random tickle of astronomy to get the mind leaping, you know?

Rusty Neon
07-09-2005, 11:20
The constellations appear to be limited to the zodiac signs.

Darwinia,

In this deck (the Grand Lenormand), there are non-zodiac constellations as well. In fact, to hazard an estimate, there are more non-zodiac constellations than zodiac ones in this deck. For example, according to the deck French-language reference book by Sédillot, the Ace of Hearts has the Milky Way; the Valet of Hearts has 4 non-zodiac constellations (Ballatrix; La Couronne boréale/literally Northern Crown; Andromeda; and Le Bouvier/literally Herdsman/Sheep); the 7 of Clubs has 4 non-zodiac constellations (Orion; The Big Dipper; Cassiopea; and the Unicorn), etc.

darwinia
07-09-2005, 22:36
the 7 of Clubs has 4 non-zodiac constellations (Orion; The Big Dipper; Cassiopea; and the Unicorn), etc.

Okay, thanks Rusty. I guess I need my magnifying glass and a constellation chart. Which is good, I wanted the deck to in part teach me about constellations.

Cassiopeia I know (I refer to her as "The Big W") and can spot as well as the big and little dipper, which were directly over my head recently. Why does this planet turn and skew the map??!! Why, why? We little soldiers of the night sky get confused and lose our bearings over the tree line.

More magnificently intriguing stuff to learn.

TheOld
07-09-2005, 22:53
i got this deck and also an verry usefull book about it who explain the mythological history of each scene and what it means.
i like it verry much, there's tons of information on it.
so for any question, don't bother to ask :)

Love, Light & Power
Omeada

darwinia
08-09-2005, 10:08
Yes, I think I will enjoy this too.

I ordered "Find the Constellations" by H.A. Rey - the chap who wrote all the Curious George books. It's supposed to be very easy to learn them from this book, and it's written for 9-12 year-olds and has great illustrations.

I have no pride, I am a 9 year-old in the Universe.

Cerulean
08-09-2005, 10:32
...and it's a two-part question--Please let us know the title and if it is in English, French or Italian. A very nice please-please-thank-you-kindly!

Best,

Cerulean

P.S. The flowers in that deck are very nice. Perhaps an old fashioned language of flowers...

TheOld
08-09-2005, 12:59
P.S. The flowers in that deck are very nice. Perhaps an old fashioned language of flowers...

in my book "understand and interpret the big game of mlle Lenormand" by Corinne Morel (in french) it's said that flowers are relative to Love unders their own symbolics. Their Interpretation are verry not often and are done with the reference table of Marie-Anne Lenormand (the table are at the end of the book).

For the constellation it's said that they are their to find Geographic location and again are done with specific table of Mlle Lenromand (again at the end of the book).

Omeada

darwinia
09-09-2005, 00:58
in my book "understand and interpret the big game of mlle Lenormand" by Corinne Morel (in french)

Darn, the good ones never seem to be translated to English. My French is rudimentary, but I'm sure I could get the gist of the mythology and then look it up in further reference books. Thanks Omeada.

I have a couple of dictionairies of classical mythology which are often helpful along with my "Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable." There is an inexpensive paperback edition of "Dictionary of Classical Mythology" by J.E. Zimmerman, available at amazon, that I have found to be useful.

[edited to add]

It's OOP at amazon.ca and Chapters but one of the amazon sellers has a copy for $39 CDN (Yikes!!)

Le livre du grand jeu de Mlle Lenormand
by Jean-Didier (Author)
Paperback - 238 pages (1997)
Language: French
Trajectoire ISBN: 2841970388

There is one for $18 USD from Paris, France listed at ABE Books. I don't have the money for that, but at least it's out there. Seems to be a different author than Omeada's book.

Corinne Morel does not have a book on the Lenormand according to amazon or Chapters, but she's got a new book (soon to be in paperback) on symbols and mythology.

TheOld
09-09-2005, 01:21
Theres many many Lenormand book and Marseille book in french, maybe cause these cards come from a french roots.

Love, Light & Power
Power

yaraluna
17-12-2006, 03:15
I read a review of this deck and wanted to know your opinion on it:

QUOTE--The techniques for reading the cards are clearly explained, but they are time consuming, and one would have to pay strict attention to them. This is a deck that could be used for reading by someone who was a student of mythology, and of the esoteric, and understood the nuances of the cards. Other than that, while I find the deck fascinating, I see it more in the collector category than the user category.--QUOTE

Those of you that have the deck and have used it: do you find this review accurate with regards to the use of the deck?

thanks

room
17-12-2006, 04:27
As yet, I have found them to be too obscure to understand. We no longer have the grounding in mythological imagery that was second nature in previous centuries.

I have ordered the book by Corinne Morel recommended by TheOld in this thread, so hope to pull the curtain back when I receive it.

My approach is to do a single card draw and work my way through the deck, learning what the historical and mythological images and the flowers mean. Exactly as the reviewer said, the nuances of each card need to be understood.

Does that make it merely a deck for collectors, as if that is not a useful purpose? Many collectors do actually use their decks, highlighting another silly assumption by the reviewer.

You get what you put into a system like this. If no effort is applied then you will get nothing back for your lack of effort.

Poor things, they have no defence against our lack of intellectual curiosity. :grin:

Abrac
24-08-2007, 15:01
I'm starting to think the constellations in this deck don't mean anything. There are a few cards where you can kinda see constellations, but for the most part it just looks like nonsense. One curious feature is 7 primary stars on each card which I assume are the planets. They are marked with lower-case Greek letters, but each card is different; there doesn't seem to be any system to it at all. Some of them are not even marked on some cards. I wonder if these constellations were put there more for effect than anything. They do look like old star maps. Their purpose may be simply as a reminder of the astral influences.

If anyone has another opinion on this I would welcome it as information in English on this deck is pretty scarce. I realize this is a pretty old thread but I was looking around and found it so I thought I would just add to this one rather than start a new one.

Cerulean
26-08-2007, 02:38
I was able to consult the little white book by Grimaud/Cartes Frances that suggests Hercules confronting the Nemean Lion and the Corinne Morel book called

Comptrendre et interpreter
Le Grand Jeu de Mll Lenormand

from Editions EB Bussiere


In terms of the star for the Nine of Hearts, it resembled or underlined the main picture--it is Regulas, the primary star in the Constellation of Leo. Hercules overcoming the Nemean Lion is essentially an allegory of good force over the opposing beast. All the small pictures underneath are secondary or tertiary meanings that speak of reward for hard effort, the good news that a querent would pay to hear with gratitude. Scroll down to the last star chart (I did a google image search)...

http://www.ncrising.com/radiant_heart_of_lion.html

One way of reading the deck that comes from the little white book on page 13 shows that if someone were reading with all the cards, you can overlap the designs so a few layers only show the bottom motifs of the cards and the top card shows the full picture. I'm not involved in large readings with these cards--I just saw this and realized that this would be a good way to gain extra dimensions using such cards.

However 'extra dimension' might be a bit too grand--the cards seem primarily figuring on mundane concerns of cartomancy--love, finance, timing of good or bad luck--it would be more recognizable to those who probably like and do not mind the allegorical 19th century taking liberties with their perception of Greco-Roman myths.

For instance, I had not perceived Trojan Horse merrily trotting in the six of spades for example--I had been under the impression it was wielded in and it was of wood. The card meanings incidently seem to speak of deception in a dire way or warn of possible or pending disaster and it's under the constellation "the serpent". The identification is from Croinne Morel. French wikipedia had the star chart:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_(constellation)

If I find any links that explain more, I'll post.

Hope that is helpful. I recommend the Corinne Morel book, even if it is in French, as it has pictures and charts and with the Grimaud booklet, this is very helpful to make use of this pretty deck.

Regards,

Cerulean

P.S. The link below is to someone who took time to write a bit more of Lenormand decks...they the Nine of Hearts and Six of Spades in the middle of the information. If the link has to be removed, please pm me and I can do a snapshot of the two cards later...

http://www.freewebs.com/simpleremedies/madamelenormand.htm

Cerulean
26-08-2007, 05:14
I recently remembered older 19th to early 20th century tarot decks derived from Etteilla designs that had what looked like different tiers of small pictures on the number cards (search on threads regarding the Lismon Etteilla decks).

Given that upright and reversed two-tiered decks of tarot were popular in the 1850s throughout 1890s for various games and the Etteilla and Lenormand decks began featuring small pictorial motifs on their number cards, I think late 19th century is a good guess. I have not come across a hard date in any source so far.

I believe Corinne Morel suggests 19th century as a dating...I'm still looking around for resources..

Best regards,

Cerulean