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isthmus nekoi
21-09-2005, 14:51
It's that time again! Here's another famous person's chart:

http://www.odivinorum.com/images/mysterychart06.gif

All levels are welcome to post, we welcome cursory impressions to in depth analysis so please, don't be shy :)

There are two parts to the exercise:

- First, post your impressions about what type of person you think this chart represents. This is the key part of the exercise to help you develop your natal chart reading skills, so please share all your thoughts.

- Second, try to choose the chart's identity from the following list. Post your guess or withhold it - whatever you're comfortable with - but try not let the cat out of the bag too early on so everyone can have an unbiased guess for themselves! I'll be back roughly next week (Sept 28) w/the correct answer.

Also, I'm rather busy, pls excuse any spelling errors in name and the brevity of some descriptions (no correlation b/w length and correct answer btw):

1) Vladimir Lenin - revolutionary communist Soviet leader and is the dude we are talking about when we say "Marxist-Leninist"
2) Alfred Adler - one of the early founders of psychology, championed the inferiority complex and challenged contemporary Sigmund Freud whom he formed the Vienna Psychoanalytic Society (which Jung was a part of too, I believe)
3) Albert Fish - American serial killer who sometimes ate his victims and indulged in self mutilation
4) Aleister Crowley - c'mon, you should know this ;)
5) Sergei Rachmaninoff - Russian composer and brilliant pianist (guy had amazing reach!!!!). Late Romantic and intense, his music is not for the faint of heart.

rainwolf
21-09-2005, 15:35
Well this person has the same moon as I do, and that would be emotion expressing itself as a rational way, as I would describe myself in a way.

Sun conjunct mars would have a lot of energy in their personality, and would express it in creativity (?)

Moon square mercury: a difficulty explaining emotions and getting them into words?

Mars exalted in aries: this adds to mars' power

Sagittarius intercept 1st house. =(gemini int. 7th house) Would the gemini intercept mean that they enjoyed an intellectual and fast relationship?

Mars square moon: i guess i see a strong emotional side, but the signs the planets are in a good way of using this pent-up energy.

prudence
21-09-2005, 15:43
Isthmus

this is too funny, this line up!! I cannot begin to wrap my mind around this grouping you have brought together for us!!! BRAVO !!

Thank you for trying to make this fun!! :D

I am excited to figure out who you have chosen for us!! But, first things first, who on Earth is Albert Fish??! Is he one of *our* serial killers? I only remember Jeffery D. doing such things.

Rachmaninoff, Lenin, and Crowley, all in the same lineup.....well, that's what I call a fun astrology class. ;)

Leo62
21-09-2005, 21:15
Haha yes great lineup...from the ridiculous to the sublime and back again!

The first thing that drew my eye was the Mars/Neptune conjunction in Aries that straddles the cusp of the 4th/5th house (Mars also widely conjuncts the Sun). This must have been a tough one - a cruel cosmic joke! - all that macho Mars energy raring to go...but continually being dissolved by Neptune.

Hmmm...could be a serial killer...but could also channel that Neptune and all that fire and become an inspired piano virtuoso and composer....

There's a helpful trine from Saturn in Sag...could also be an inspired but ruthless political idealist....the 2nd house Moon in Aquarius would also support this ...

Uranus in Cancer also conjuncts the North Node - another excellent placement for a political revolutionary ;)

isthmus nekoi
22-09-2005, 01:15
wow, you've really gotten off to a good start and made some great observations!

Rainwolf - good eye w/noticing Mars' sign placement. Note that he is also the ruler of the ASC sign (Scorpio), giving him even more influence.

As for intercepted houses, I haven't used them enough to come up w/consistent applications... but I have read that they represent an "achilles heel", energy that has more difficulty coming to light. This is further complicated by Saturn's placement in Sag. Personally, I don't know about this b/c the ppl w/intercepted signs are found in higher latitudes - does this mean the further away from the equator you are, the more likely you are to have an "achilles heel"?

Astrid - the weird people you come across surfing the net!! America has a great long history of famous serial killers given an almost celebrity status by the media - Dahmer, yes... also John Gacy, Ed Gein, Ted Bundy, David Berkowitz, Aileen Wuornos... A surprizing number of them having films based on their life story! Oh, you know what - that reminds me, there was also a "Zodiac Killer" as he was dubbed by the press! Oops, sorry for going off topic there but anyways, Fish... he was not from California if that's what you meant!

Leo - ha ha, I like what you said about Mars/Neptune. I wonder if Mars has the upper hand though, being exalt, cusping the 5th and conjunct the 5th house cusp. A sort of generalized, diffusive aggression? The other thing to note is the strong Taurus placements. Neptune might be conjunct Mars, but he's got all this earth energy to tie him down. Imagine if he had a Pisces stellium + Mars conj Neptune - a very different individual indeed!

isthmus nekoi
24-09-2005, 01:39
Thought I'd chime in my own thoughts w/o trying to give anything away:

- strong earth/fixed energy. This is generally a stable and stubborn person.

- MC ruler in conjunct Pluto, 6th house cusp, sextile Venus and Uranus. Aquarius on 3rd house. An original, inventive, resourceful (all that earth!) thinker.

- Mars, chart ruler conjunct Neptune, sun and 5th house cusp, square Uran/north node and trine Saturn. Mars' Neptunian side is given an edge and grounded w/all the Taurus. This is not a confused person. Neptune might actually add a zeal, a sense of martyrdom, if not the victim w/this placement instead of a confusion of drive. Saturn also helps to ground the Neptune, give Mars a good sense of rhythm and consistent drive.

This man has a lot of stamina but Uran keeps him from being boring!

Leo62
24-09-2005, 01:53
Hmmm - must admit I'm gravitating towards Lenin: Moon in Aquarius and Uranus conj. North Node combined with the patience and stability of the planets in Taurus. Also - that Uranus in Cancer...Cancer is the sign of patriotism and the "motherland"...Uranus=disruption and turning things on their head. Also, Pluto was transiting Cancer at the time of the Russian Revolution, so might have been triggering Lenin's (if it is him...) Uranus/North Node.

However - Mars/Neptune in Aries and the Neptune/Saturn contact also make me think it might be Rachmaninov....

Adler - don't get it really, apart from the Merc/Pluto conjunction. Mind you, wasn't Freud a Taurus sun with Scorpio rising?

Crowley - don't see it at all, so it's probably him!! ;)

Girseach
24-09-2005, 04:43
Hello all - new to this board, although I know of isthmus nekoi from nodorama.

This is totally fun!

First thing I noticed ('cause I have one as well) is the locomotive pattern - this is a very personally ambitious person - and there is a emphasis with power/fame planets in the 6th (work/vocation) and personal magnetism (sun/merc/mars) in the 5th.

Uranus (moon's ruler) in the house of "sex/death/enlightenment" along with the north node - this person's passion wants to change the world.

Pluto, the modern chart ruler and Mars the traditional chart ruler - make two conjunctions each - Pluto to Mercury and Jupiter, Mars to the Sun and Neptune. Reading each of these 'all together' - Pluto: Dynamic communicator about education or international affairs. Mars: Great personal energy in the realm of esoteric/abstract ideas-central theme to his life.

To me - it looks like Lenin or Crowley-but with the locomotive pattern 'led' by Uranus (change) and 'caboosed' by Saturn (tradition/the father/etc)...I'm leaning more towrds Lenin.

isthmus nekoi
24-09-2005, 23:01
Hey Girsearch, welcome to AT :)

Interesting analysis! Now you've made me curious - what is the significance of a locomotive "leader" and its "caboose"? Also, it's the last planet of the locomotive (Saturn) that will receive transits first - what do you make of this?

rainwolf
25-09-2005, 17:03
I believe the leader is the first planet counter clockwise to the gap, signifying the 'leading' planet. Emphasis would be put on it.

Kittaine
25-09-2005, 23:34
My golly, I can't even begin to put this together. @_@

Okay, without reading the others' posts, I've looked up the planets in the houses and the planets in the signs. I don't know how to look at aspects yet.

First impression...this guy has an interest in the occult, although he is quite sociable when he wants to be. He might still give off that "weird", "mysterious" vibe. Erm...possibly psychic or intuitive? Also a hardworker? I'd also bet he had a screwy love life.

LOL! That's about all I can put together for now. Oh well, I'm a beginner. These things take practice. I hope one day I can just glance at a chart and come up with loads about the person's life and personality! :D

Sunburst
26-09-2005, 05:10
Hmmm.... a Mars/Neptune conjunction, squared by Uranus (this one's been discussed above). Saturn in the first -- taking on a lot of responsibility, feeling like he knows (at least in his mind) what the world should be like, but isn't. All those fixed signs, making him stubborn (or tenancious, if you want to say it nicely:)). Mercury conjuct Pluto, making him a powerful communicator.

It's gotta be Lenin.

isthmus nekoi
27-09-2005, 01:04
Kittaine, I assume you are talking about his Scorpio ASC? That is a good start... now how do you think having sun in practical and conservative Taurus will affect your interpretation? Also, what led you to the conclusion that his love life was a bit wacky?

btw, keep practicing like this and one day you will be able to gleam lots of info from a chart!

Sunburst - great observations. I think stubborn is fair lol :) Those commentsl could also be applied to Crowley though, what makes you think this is not him?

prudence
27-09-2005, 04:38
hmm, well, there's nothing going on the 12th house, so I am saying this is not Crowley.

The MC is in Virgo, so, I want to say this person made a career at being nitpicky, but also a nurturer... perhaps a psychiatrist.

I am curious about how the Saturn placement in the 1st house, in the sign of Sag, would affect him? He feels restricted in ....his sense of luck or....? Would this make for a more reserved personality? Like less prone to "speaking out"?

rainwolf
27-09-2005, 05:44
when I think about it....I think its the piano guy because the moon is squared by mars and mercury which is difficult expression (IMO? or is that valid)

Also mars and mercury are in taurus which is a material sign and energy will be shown through 'things', and in the sixth house at 'work'.

Any disagreements? I'd like clarification on that. :)

isthmus nekoi
28-09-2005, 00:44
lol, Astrid - Crowley is definetely a good candidate for self undoing!

Good question about the 1st house. It's quite complicated b/c the ASC sign is Scorpio, but then, Sag energy is activated by Saturn. Saturn in first usually gives a serious outlook and as a child, obstacles and responsibilities will colour their life. In this case, Saturn makes trines to Mars, Neptune and out-of-sign w/sun. So while he might put up a reserved front, he also has a lot of endurance in terms of working.

Actually, in this case, b/c of the heavy earth energy, I might just "push" Saturn into the 2nd house (already conjunct the cusp) and interpret it there as well.

rainwolf, I'm not sure I'd consider moon square merc a sign of difficult expression - more like, expression and thought processes are coloured, if not governed by moods and feelings. 6th house is an interesting "work" house. It rules co-workers, but also, pets, servants and servitude. Although the stigma of 6th has lifted w/modern astro, 6th is also considered an unfortunate house...

rainwolf
28-09-2005, 08:28
Thanks for the clarification--so the square in this case is not stressful? I thought a square with anything to the moon would be a little difficult because of how primitive emotion is compared to other aspects.

Well either way, I'm interested in finding out the charts subject this week :)

isthmus nekoi
29-09-2005, 00:06
rainwolf, you are correct, the square is definetely stressful, but you need to think about the blending of planetary energies as the key component of your interpretation. So a rule of thumb like, Mercury squares=difficulties in communicating can be a little too vague or might send you in the wrong direction. Think of a Jupiter-moon square. That is really not the same sort of stressful as a Neptune-moon square for example!

isthmus nekoi
29-09-2005, 00:12
Thanks to all who shared their thoughts this week. The answer is Lenin!

Not only do we have the Aquarian/Uranus energy going strong, the 2nd/8th houses are also activated (concerns w/resources and the division thereof). I'll be back soon w/another chart. Next week, let's really try to focus on houses and get specific to try to nail down these charts!

prudence
29-09-2005, 01:36
oh poop, I was way off!

But, a good learning exercise just the same. I would like to contribute more, I just have a hard time putting it all into words. Thanks for expalining the 2nd and 8th houses stuff. I can go back now and look! As a hindsight- astrologer, I am getting pretty good!

Now, why can you just push his Saturn into the 2nd house ike that? If it's near enough the cusp of the 2nd house? Or is it due to having a lot of Earth energy? And if it's mostly based on the latter, then when is it okay to do this in general? How much is enough to push it into the next house?

Thank you for your patience! I know I am taking a LONG time to catch onto all of this!

isthmus nekoi
30-09-2005, 01:03
Don't worry Astrid - the most important part of this exercise is really to practice looking at charts :)

As for pushing Saturn.... how much is enough.... tricky question b/c it's not exactly something you can quantify...... but you're bang on, the loads of earth was a factor, plus 6th house (earth house) is activated, as well as 2nd-8th. I guess after you read tons of charts, they start to have weight and you feel "pulled" in certain directions. Sort of like tarot? I don't know how it feels for others, but I always feel that push and pull, esp w/the c/c spread. So I'm afraid this is my way of saying, my intuition told me to push Saturn! Sorry, I know that probably isn't very helpful to you....

If I can offer any advice though, it's that as tarot readers we probably have worked w/intuition a lot and have had to work hard to hear that little voice that tells you things you can't justify right away. See if you can trust your intuition when reading charts too - to this day I will see an aspect and all the different possibilities of meanings will go through my head but something will just make a way stronger impression. No discernable reason why. I know it's hard to bridge the gap from being a tarot reader to an astro reader, but certainly intuition can still apply..... just be careful w/it first, astro is not as flexible in its symbolism as tarot!!

rainwolf
30-09-2005, 09:05
Hmm well that was fun nonetheless. Can't wait til' the next one.

isthmus nekoi
30-09-2005, 21:50
It's coming soon :)