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catlin
10-10-2005, 22:41
Does anyone work with this deck?

Cerulean
11-10-2005, 04:09
Usually, on purpose, I separate the majors, courts, and minors.

Then I do a card from each pile. I like to read the information in the LWB.

I use it as a study deck.

Do you use it at all?

Cerulean

Umbrae
11-10-2005, 05:23
I've just started - will post in a while.

tarotbear
11-10-2005, 14:05
Although I have several Tavaglione decks including Stairs of Gold I don't ever use it. I prefer his Tarot of the Stars myself.

Scion
11-10-2005, 14:28
I'm with Bear on this one. I have a few of Tavaglione's decks, but much prefer his Stelle to his Stairs.

Scion

zazen
11-10-2005, 15:31
.....

Umbrae
11-10-2005, 16:05
Just my opinion, but Stars is more astrologically based. Stairs is more Kabalisticaly based (but incorporates astrology).

Stairs has a LWB in English that is needed - in tiny impossible to read font.

Stars is in Italian and is a huge LWB - most likely a ton of good Italian info.

Stairs is Marseilles based (follows Levi - Fool = Shin).

Stars is WCS based (Fool = Shin) but pips are illustrated in a WCS style (four of wands has folks dancing under a sukkhah, four of cups has a fourth cup floating)

Stairs is smaller than Stars. Stars has card labels (plenty, abondance, der Uberfluss, Abundancia - ace of cups)

I think it depends on your focus - if you follow astrology - Tavalione I Tarocchi de Stelle - best learn Italian or bemoan the book.

Hermetic and/or Kabala...

The Tarrocco Tagalioni (Stairs of Gold) is now officially out of print. It was originally published by US Games in 1979. It's a tre's deep deck. (Giorgio Tavaglione has since passed away).

As I said, it is has Continental numbering and Kabalistic lettering as opposed to the English Waite/GD schools.

Each card contains: The corresponding Sanskrit letter to it's tarot number
The Hebrew alphabet letter
The Celestial alphabet letter
The letter of the Vulgar Latin alphabet connecting the Hebrew and Sanskrit letters
The Zodiological corrospondance w/constellation or planet
Location on the Lurial Tree of Life
If I were to classify this as a reading deck, or a kabalistic deck, or a hermetic deck or a...

I'd be wrong.

It's all of that...and more. Each card is so deeply filled with symbology, the LWB is essential. It is however as I stated - in impossible to read font of a tiny size.

Sure the pips are unillustrated, however this does not imply they are lacking in zymology, or imagery. Suits are ordered from the Kings down to the Aces rather than upwards, and suits (Levi style) are ordered Wands, Cups, Swords, Pentacles.

The Fool has both the Dog and the Crocodile.

You need a magnifying glass to appreciate the Hermit (check out the staff...).

The 'Stairs of Gold' is a rich, complex deck.

Glad I snagged a copy. I think there are a few out there still...I suggest you follow my lead. A truly great deck.

Cerulean
11-10-2005, 16:55
...or tarotworld.com, as it's distributed by AG Mueller in Europe...a few weeks ago, I noticed U.S. Games was no longer carrying their reprint.

1. Reprint details:
When U.S. Games reprinted in 2002 or thereabouts, I snagged one and cut the borders. I liked the waxy feel of the matte finish, the bright blue backgrounds, and the plasticized paper booklet. This was a reprint...

Someone said that a movie might have used the Stairs of Gold...and poof, many copies vanished. I decided to buy one used through Powells bookstore--

2. Older Used 1979 details:
My used one through Powells turned out to be a 1979 version, when U.S. Games was in New York. It's not a gold-stamped that someone once posted about (someone asked the value of her first edition with gold ink, I think--she never responded to my question, though...I couldn't access a value, either!). So far as I can tell, the finish is a little slicker; it was printed in Switzerland; and the booklet is paper, not plastic coated.

One of the extra publisher cards lists Stuart Kaplan's one Encyclopedia of the Tarot.

The cards seem a little lighter in color than my more recent reprint. I don't think it's fading--I think the cards were originally a little lighter in the sky blue color...anyway, it's good advice to get one. My used 1979 version was $15.00, not including shipping...it was luck of the draw that I got the older version.


3. Stella, aka Porta Celeste (Celestial Portal?) and a thought in comparing to Stairs of Gold...

Beautiful, reminds me somewhat of the Greco-Roman Sybilline oracle deck by Tavaglione, has the theme of a spiral that undulates within and without. The esoteric language isn't easy to translate, but there are glimpses are into a beautiful mind. Somehow I believe the synthesis of all this comes out more refined in the "Stairs of Gold"-- Tavaglione's dedication of Stairs of Gold, other then his wife Giulia, seems to be to Stuart Kaplan, thanking the U.S. Games founder for allowing him to bring tarot into the New World...

Regards,

Cerulean

catlin
11-10-2005, 19:20
Wow, guys, you are just amazing and I am sooo glad I followed my intution and got a copy of the Stairs of Gold 3 years ago!!! I have just started delving into qabalistic matters and started to learn Sankskrit a while ago so I am glad to hear that the Stairs are also great for study.

tarotbear
12-10-2005, 03:09
Yes - the "LIB" (Little Italian Book) for the Stars deck has never been (successfully) translated into English. One site I went to had the Stars - in English- I was disappointed to find they were using the Stairs' LWB for the interpretations. I have shown the LIB to many people who speak and understand Italian and they all handed it back and said - "I have no idea what he is talking about!" I never knew if they meant the highly technical Italian, or were just confused by the tarot terminology used.

Cerulean
12-10-2005, 06:14
I was curious if the AG Mueller version of Stairs of Gold has the paper copy of the booklet--or if the one you bought three years ago has a kind of plastic coating on the pages.

Does anyone else have a Stairs of Gold earlier than the reprint issued in 2002 or thereabouts? Something printed in the 1979/80 timeframe? If so, I'd like to private mail some questions to compare my used one...

I had cut off the borders of my 2002 version and I think some of the things that come with the 2002 edition differs...so that is included in my few questions, as well.

Regards,

Cerulean

Parzival
12-10-2005, 10:05
I was curious if the AG Mueller version of Stairs of Gold has the paper copy of the booklet--or if the one you bought three years ago has a kind of plastic coating on the pages.

Does anyone else have a Stairs of Gold earlier than the reprint issued in 2002 or thereabouts? Something printed in the 1979/80 timeframe? If so, I'd like to private mail some questions to compare my used one...

I had cut off the borders of my 2002 version and I think some of the things that come with the 2002 edition differs...so that is included in my few questions, as well.

Regards,

Cerulean

I've got the older and newer printings. The older one has a paper booklet, not plastic coated. Let me know about your interests re the two printings.

Cerulean
12-10-2005, 15:22
and oddly, I don't have a problem with the hand-lettered information.

Not certain why, but I prefer it.

Thanks for this wonderful thread!

Cerulean

Umbrae
12-10-2005, 15:27
since my eye surgury I find the text very difficult to read. I need a magnifying glass - but in a way that's okay, it makes me feel like an old man. It's such a lovely find this deck...

Cerulean
12-10-2005, 16:04
Tavaglione's Stairs of Gold, all cards:
http://www.tarot.com/about-tarot/decks/browsedecks.php?newdeck=30

Stella, all cards:
http://www.tarot.com/about-tarot/decks/browsedecks.php?newdeck=32
----------------------------------------------------------

Some discussion of Stella follows, from 2003:
Christine Payne Tower reported in an earlier thread:
has anybody translated it?

I have carried the big blue book from the Stelle to several Italian-speaking people, and apparentlly it is 'special'. For one thing, being an antiquarian, Tavaglione wrote it in the dialect of the 1500's, some locality-based version of the Italian that nobody speaks anymore. Plus, it's deeplly metaphysical, as I was told several times. One person, an older native Italian speaker, said it was amazing when he read it, but it was too disturbing to his Catholicism to stay with it to the end. This same man's son, born in America, looked it over and said it was too esoteric for his "street-level" Italian.

What will we do? My Queendom for a translation!

Christine
---------------------------------------------------------------------
27-09-2003

Cerulean

My rough translation of a few paragraphs of Stars:

In the investigation of the aspects and the celestial quality of the description of figures, symbols and of planets and stars.

Between more ancient investigative thought the spiral is between profound and mysterous. The spiral that you and he think of is the labyrinth. It has both the entrance and exit. The labyrinth that you sense is direct with life, the individual evolution and all human society. The incisions of the megaliths of the Celtics, Africans, the decorations of Maya and Aztecs and from East India, Devas and Asura, the Chinese double spiral known as the yin-yang--the spiral expresses the primal range, the emanation, the development of the continuous cycle of the creative rotation. It is marvelous to imagine cosmic and symbol equilibrium in the line breaks, to arrange the internal change and mutation. The spiral logarithyms stays, formed notwithstanding, its assymetrical growth.

The spiral represents always rhythm repeatedly of life and the characteristic cycle of evolution, assurance of its permanent essence that fluctuate and changes as part of the center of expansion (the solvent of the Alchemist) and is the return to the center in condension (in coagulation), the movement possesses being in agreement with birth and death (per the East Indians - kapa and prayana) Come death, initiates rebirth and the diverse being, transformed, agreement comes in the journey of the soul after the death, otherwise the orderly life upset is to join in the center, return to unity, the eternal essence, the reintegration into the primary whole.


Another try at a few other paragraphs

...The usual symbolic aspect of evolution-reintegration of the double spiral- is pure guesswork to constructively analyze the 22 major arcana. Every one of the cards has various correspondences in symbols-astrology, alchemy, alphabetical-numerological. It is the ultimate and (numerous) that every card furnishes also symbology-sequentially it indicates a kabbalistic philosophy. To enter into the diagram of the double spiral we separate the into a distinct group, the 22 arcana.

The primary group is part of the spiral in expansion. From the center of the major arcana, the first one, is the Bagatto, or Magician, corresponding to Alef symbolically...

(Cerulean's note--Garrett Knight suggests to lay out the cards in an outward spiral from the center and although he starts with the Fool, you can see his spiral layout in the book and also start with the Magician/Bagatto. He does this as one of the beginning exercises in imaginative thinking and magical associations with the major arcana in A Treasure House of Images or Tarot and Magic).

...(Bagatto) is the young person initially in a career that arises in activity, it is the indicator of the primary grade, the primary major that oversees the next development in a discourse to bring the conquest alone. It is the royal duty to carry and superintend the merit of the material, to own afterward, conquer, possess and exercise..

(I don't think I have the above two segments exactly right...but I'm using a small dictionary and some understanding from going through some Renaissance and a Dante seminar using a bilingual text...anyway, this rough 'making sense' might help inspire others to glean the beautiful mass of information out. My idea now is that Stairs of Gold booklet and deck actually was a tighter organization and distillation of his earlier decks--which include Sibilla; Mantegna commentary and Porta Celeste or Tarot of the Stars. I'm going to be checking out a 1987 almanac that has Tavaglione's name as an author...)

Enjoy!

Cerulean

catlin
12-10-2005, 18:50
Thanks you guys for all your wonderful input!! I fear I have to get the Stelle, too *aargggh*

Anyone interested in a study group or was there already one when I was away?

tmgrl2
14-10-2005, 05:16
I just received my Stairs of Gold...with LWB in English...but because of the font type and size, totally unreadable to me as well (as Umbrae mentioned).

Some of the cards, as well, are quite difficult to examine...the details, that is.

I do see the wand with new leaves...held by the Hermit...

I'm going to table the deck for a bit, until I get to a copy machine and enlarge the LWB, since it looks as though I will want to read it.

Way more in the line of symbols than I know or understand.

Will revisit when I have enlarged the book and read some.

I do like the "Marseile-type" pips....

...to be continued.

Umbrae
14-10-2005, 09:10
Some of the cards, as well, are quite difficult to examine...the details, that is.

I do see the wand with new leaves...held by the Hermit...
he he he...get a magnifying glass...look at the leaves real careful like...

tmgrl2
14-10-2005, 10:16
he he he...get a magnifying glass...look at the leaves real careful like...

OHMYGOD!! How did that number??? get in there among all of that planetary stuff (the leaves)?????

Does that mean what I think??

Now, we'll have people hunting for the deck to see the Hermit!

t

Cerulean
14-10-2005, 11:05
It's just that the curly linework makes them look like leaves.

Unfortunately the free scans at tarot.com aren't enlarged...and I'm not able to pull the Hermit card scans at the formerly accessible gambler site...

Regards,

Cerulean

tarotbear
14-10-2005, 16:20
They don't look like leaves to me - they look like either knotwork, a reference to an ouroboros ... or the Hermit has carved his staff to look like a line of phalluses - which would not be out of line for Tavaglione! Scion and I both like this deck for the naked males in it. {In fact, the 6 of Wands was the real reason I bought this deck - a card full of naked men holding their ... wands.} :smoker: [that should make people go scrambling for the card!]

Are we discussing the 'Stairs' or the 'Stars' ?

Cerulean
14-10-2005, 16:38
"I do see the wand with new leaves...held by the Hermit..."

...but oh my, dear Tarotbear, I could see someone giving gold stars now to the Stella for creative visualization to the Hermit's wand in the Stella deck! The knotty or naughty wand...oh dear.

My Stairs of Gold Hermit is cloaked and somber, by comparison. :THERM

Best regards,

Cerulean

Moonbow
14-10-2005, 17:27
This is a deck that I never tire of looking at, there is so much to notice and then investigate. Unfortunately I haven't read with it yet other than some daily draws which Yaboot and I got involved with a while ago. He was using the Enoil Gavat - the threads are around for those interested.

At the time I did a little research on the celestial symbols... this deck needs a lifetime of research on its own. I love it.

tarotbear
15-10-2005, 02:14
O.K.!
Yes, I would call him somber, too! At least the Hermit in the Stars is nude and has a nice butt for an old guy! :smoker:

Anywho - according to the LWB that Tavaglione lettered - and now I understand why Umbrae went blind - it says:

" The Hermit is an old wise man (Diogenes), expert, who knows the past from which he draws inspiration for the future. He proceeds slowly but without stopping, his pace is prudent and reflective, he explores the terrain with a cane of twelve knots which represent the unrolling of Time in the Zodiac {those are teeny tiny Zodiac symbols, not leaves!-TB}. He follows the Path of Initiation and Knowledge. The veiled lantern that he carries in his right hand is the Science of Occultism and is veiled because its light could blind, therefore Illumination must be gradual and patient. If he meets the Serpent of Egoism in his path he does not crush it but enchants it, having instead the ambition to win the will to know and overcome" [Capitalizations by Tavaglione]

catlin
18-10-2005, 23:51
@tarotbear,
Ok, so I should go for the deck just because to see a nice male butt? There are no guys with nice butts here around.

tarotbear
19-10-2005, 04:25
@tarotbear,
Ok, so I should go for the deck just because to see a nice male butt? There are no guys with nice butts here around.

There is a lot of tasteful well-drawn naked male (and female) anatomy in Tarot of the Stars. Who wants to look at a droopy butt? :smoker:

catlin
19-10-2005, 19:25
Ok, tarotbear, I give in: next one on my wishlist is the Stars!

John Meador
26-09-2008, 06:48
Does anyone know the source for the sigils or seals of the Shemha angels that appear on the cards? At one website, it was asserted that they derive from a manuscript of Blaise de Vigenere, but on inquiry the author of the assertion couldn't recall for certain. Perhaps it was anecdotal from Mathers?

Thanks,
-John

Morwenna
28-09-2008, 01:15
Responding to some earlier posts:

My SoG was the first deck I ever bought; it's the US Games New York edition, which I got in the early '80s. The box is battered to a pulp (though still intact, barely; the bottom's off) but the cards are fine. I can read the LWB, and I love the calligraphy; but then again my extremely nearsighted left eye is almost a jeweler's loup. :) I haven't looked at the book for a long time and I forgot it was calligraphed. Now that I'm so familiar with Tarot I need to read that book again and study it properly. It has so much in it! I think that's what drew me to it in the first place (that, and the artwork). But it was too much for a beginner. Time to get back!

I have no answer to the current question, but thank you for bumping this thread!

Now I have to get the Stelle and the Enoil Gavat... sigh...

FolkSeer
02-02-2012, 04:31
I just placed an order for this deck through AbeBooks for $81.25 USD. (Is that overpaying?) However, the deck is used, but according to the seller who is quite trusted and high rated stated that the deck is in almost new condition with little - yet not visible stains on the edges possibly from handling. Good deal?

I can't wait for it to arrive.

VGimlet
02-02-2012, 08:28
I just placed an order for this deck through AbeBooks for $81.25 USD. (Is that overpaying?) However, the deck is used, but according to the seller who is quite trusted and high rated stated that the deck is in almost new condition with little - yet not visible stains on the edges possibly from handling. Good deal?

I can't wait for it to arrive.

I think I got mine for about 70 bucks - it was a deck only and the box is in slightly worn shape, but the cards are good. Honestly I was very surprised to get it at that price -I have seen decks go for as much as 150.00 US, so yes, a pretty good deal, as long as the seller is describing the deck correctly.

gregory
02-02-2012, 09:18
Hm. Mine cost me 12.

Of course, that was in 1982.It pays to be old.... :laugh:

FolkSeer
02-02-2012, 13:17
I think I got mine for about 70 bucks - it was a deck only and the box is in slightly worn shape, but the cards are good. Honestly I was very surprised to get it at that price -I have seen decks go for as much as 150.00 US, so yes, a pretty good deal, as long as the seller is describing the deck correctly.

Mine will be a deck only as well but they are including a velvet bag with it.

I was going to originally buy a new deck but that would be about $240.00 USD. I chose the less expensive because I can get it quicker. :)

FolkSeer
02-02-2012, 13:18
Hm. Mine cost me 12.

Of course, that was in 1982.It pays to be old.... :laugh:

Wasn't even alive in 1982, let alone being old enough to understand tarot. No offense.

gregory
02-02-2012, 18:01
Wasn't even alive in 1982, let alone being old enough to understand tarot. No offense.

I don't offend over my age :D I am lucky. I got loads of stuff at the original price !!!

I never said I understood it at that time.... :D

jema
02-02-2012, 22:38
I don't offend over my age :D I am lucky. I got loads of stuff at the original price !!!

I never said I understood it at that time.... :D

I got mine at something like 15 dollars or so too. Anyway, posts like these makes me think that perhaps it is a good idea to buy decks coming out now even if i don't like them cause in a few years they will be hard to find...

The deck is on my weekly deck rotation list so i am pretty sure I will get some time with it soon enough. I quite like the LWB :-D

Morwenna
03-02-2012, 06:38
I said it before and I'll say it again: I really have to get back into this deck, and study the LWB again, now that I have many years of Tarot experience behind me. I too bought it in the '80s, but being a newcomer I wasn't ready for all the twists and turns, despite it was those same twists and turns which fascinated me!

VGimlet
03-02-2012, 07:48
Hm. Mine cost me 12.

Of course, that was in 1982.It pays to be old.... :laugh:

heh. I wish I had been buying decks all along since I started reading in 1971. :P

I never even though about getting this deck until I got the Stelle, which I like a lot.

FolkSeer
03-02-2012, 12:26
Okay, so I may be needin' some help when I get this deck.

I just emailed the seller to see if they had the instruction book with the deck.

They don't. So how do you know what symbol stands for what in which section of the card?

Will y'all help me understand the cards when I get them? *Plead, grovel, thank you.*

Morwenna
04-02-2012, 01:22
I haven't looked; is there a study group for this deck? (I'm at work.) If not, maybe we should start one. I could use some help too!

FolkSeer
04-02-2012, 01:43
I haven't looked; is there a study group for this deck? (I'm at work.) If not, maybe we should start one. I could use some help too!

I'll look. Who would want to start it?

ETA: There is no study group or thread for Stairs of Gold.

RexMalaki
04-02-2012, 04:17
there used to be a study group...it is in the archives now:

http://www.tarotforum.net/library/16/2003-09/tarocco-tavaglione-stairs-of-gold-study-20030915.shtml

Morwenna
04-02-2012, 06:15
Thank you for the research!

FolkSeer
04-02-2012, 08:53
So . . . I will start the study group.

Do we want to restrict the study group to just the Stairs of Gold? Or make it an overall Tavaglione study group for all of the Tavaglione decks?

jema
20-02-2012, 08:18
I just found this one on swedish ebay for no reserve!
But since I already have it I actually mailed the seller and let her know what she had :-p
Told her to just put it up at english e-bay instead, would just be a shame to see it go for almost nothing.