View Full Version : We're Out of Time: calendar reform

Phoenix Rising
07-11-2005, 15:26
I found this information very interesting and thought especially to those who follow the Moon cycles, that you would be able to resonate with what the Mayans, those incredibly wise mathematicians and astrologers of old and the indigenous cultures have been using all along. Their calendar system has been the most accurate to date. The reason for this is that they always followed the universal laws of harmony, being in sync with Earth and the Universe as a whole as we are all connected.

The current Gregorian calendar changed by Pope Gregory XIII in 1582 has no natural flow to the Sun and moon cycle at all. All months are of unequal measure, with 30, 31, 28, 29 during certain months. So where in natural laws of harmony does this fit? They had to fit the months in so that it could correspond to the Earths orbit around the sun. As well as those discrepancy, Sept (7) Oct (8) Nov (9) Dec (10) are all 2 months off, December is the 12th month, October 10th month in our current calendar system. Therefore this calendar system is way out of sync.

So the Tun Uc or Tzolkin calendar of the Maya, as well as indigenous cultures, uses a calendar of equal measure 13 moons 28 (mean average) day cycle (13x28=364) + 1 day out of time. Earth’s orbit around the Sun is also 364 days + 1. So we have a lunar/solar calendar of equal measure and in harmony with Earth’s natural timing. We only have to observe nature, and animals that are in tune with nature, interestingly animals do not follow a false timing or mechanical clock.

Therefore my point in this explanation. The Law of Time is everything to us. Time represents the 4th dimension. And whoever controls time, controls the mind. Since Julius Caesar (roman empire) and the Gregorian calendar (Vatican) has in effect and unconsciously controlled our time, because we have been using a Calendar system that is a false and artificial timing frequency 12:60(12 solar months: 60 minute mechanical clock) this false timing frequency has separated the minds of Humans because they began to work their lives around it, around a clock and unnatural calendrical system that does not correspond to nature. When one is not in tune with nature, their mind becomes disharmonious as well, and starts to lose natural instinct and telepathy because we no longer rely on these natural abilities, but mechanical ones and now technology.

A distorted Time frequency creates distorted mind or thoughts, which creates distorted and disharmonious manifestations (technology not in harmony with environment) and therefore Distorted Earth! So therefore to get back in natural Synchronisation of Nature or Divine Right Timing it would make logical sense to follow a calendar that is of harmony that of 13:20 timing frequency the Mayans and indigenous cultures used.

All cultures and religions throughout the centuries have prophesised the Great cycle that of 2012 nearing us. There have been many speculations to what this is all about. According to the Mayans, and the Mayan Time Keeper Pacal Votan on his Tomb he encrypted the prophecy for this time. He also prophesised every event that would shape Humanity, as well as this False counting system and technology that would separate man from nature, therefore separate from Source, and the destruction we would face if we did not return to Natural laws and timing. Humanity has until 2012 to regain its connection to nature. Because we have unconsciously for over 500 years separated ourselves. Humans will in effect become so out of sync because of a need to rely on technology; they will pull themselves into a “time warp”. Time is of the 4th dimension. Earth has entered into this phase, but if you are all operating to a false/artificial timing frequency, how can you possibly enter into the natural timing of 4th dimension? You will be stuck in 3D “Time Warp” this is what the Mayans and the ancients have said. Although, time has never been explained as simply as this. The scientists have all given technical and complicated formulas, but not quite explained it in simple man terms, so we’ve all been wondering, or probably not even thinking about what “Time” really is, yet the word is mentioned numerous “times” daily.

The “Law of Time” foundation since 1993 have submitted numerous submissions to the United Nations and asked for audiences with the Pope and Vatican to have a calendar reform changed back to this 13:20 frequency 13 months of 28 days (female menstrual cycle). They believe that it will restore Earth and Man back to harmony, because they will no longer be living out of sync in a false and artificial timing system. And regain our once abilities of telepathy and instinct. There will be no need for Cell phones. We will all have harmonious thoughts and start to create a world of peace and simple and natural living. Start to create technology of free energy sources. Our brain hemispheres will no longer recognise polarities, and have no judgments, because that is a natural thinking process of a enlightened and harmonious being. This is the New Earth, the New Vision they have all talked about. Ultimately we are responsible, become one with nature again, change to a natural timing calendar of 13 moon and 28 day cycle.

For more in-depth information and free downloads you will be able to find it at these links
Law of Time (http://www.lawoftime.org)
Tortuga (http://www.tortuga.com)
13 Moon (http://www.13moon.com)

White Resonate Mirror (16:9:98)

07-11-2005, 22:05
Phoenix Rising, I've just read your post and I find your statements do not resonate for me. While I do recognize that the calendar practices of the western/european world have been politically and narrow-mindedly manipulated from time to time, I do not see that this has taken us "out of sync with nature and the universe."

First of all, we have to start with the 365 day year, or 364 plus 1 days. This, of course, does not broadly represent the orbital time of the Earth around the Sun as measured in Earth rotations (days). The actual time is closer to 365.25 "rotations" of the Earth.

Second, we have to recognize the seasonal cycles which are defined by the apparent broad weather patterns of the Earth. These are commonly divided into four seasons. However, the weather is very variable and the boundary between one seasona ending and the next starting is not distinct in most cases. The process of change may occur slowly, quickly or vary its effects. Yet, despite this casual and uneven process, the weather is a most significant factor in shaping cultures relative to geography.

Third, the nature of our orbit and our planet's rotation is constantly changing. We have the precession of the equinoxes to contend with. Our common calendar and common western astrological practices do not account for this precession factor very nicely. This shift amounts to about 1 degree every 72 years. Further, we have to make time adjustments quite frequently. In the last several years we have added a second of time to our day three or four times -- mostly due to a slowing of rotation due to the gravitational influence of the Moon, but also because of volcanic action that has caused the crust of the Earth to flow and slightly change the pear-shape of our not-so-spherical globe.

Fourth, the impact of travel and communication among the peoples of the world have had a huge impact on our cultures. Given the fact that most people live only 70 or 80 years, the cultural practices of each generation in each worldly location is subject to many variables and influences -- culture and life is trendy, subject to economical and technological influences, etc. Time, as a factor, seems to take a back seat except in terms of local transportation schedules, the presentation of TV programs, and the aging process as it impacts our health and maturity.

Finally, I would say that "time" has become merely a measuring tool. It makes little difference what kind of a ruler we use as long as we can use it as a reference tool. Socially, many of us have progressed far beyond a daily need to wonder whether the Sun will rise the next day. We have evolved to different states of consciousness, for better or worse, but different. Time has differing meanings, sometimes little meaning, in many lives.

Now, I am not insensitive to culture and calendars. I have been an astrologer for 35 years and have had to work with strange time systems when doing ancient charts and working in non-tropical systems. But, I do not personally feel I have lost anything important. Afterall, to a large degree TIME is merely a convenience tool in our age. These are just my thoughts. Dave

08-11-2005, 01:39
With all due respect to the folks who want to reform the calendar, I have some difficulty understanding why it represents a panacea.

The Mayans weren't the only culture to use a month of 28 months. So did the Greeks at one time. And yes, we resonate with the moon's tides. But as Dad pointed out, we also resonate with the solar tides as well as the daily rotation of the earth. And for other than holidays and the weather, I can't really care a whole lot which month I'm in. A calendar with 4 months is fine with me too.

As astrologers we use a "calendar" of 12 signs/months based on the Greek (and maybe Babylonian) system. From the standpoint of both natal charts and predictions, this works well. And as Einstein demonstrated, time is relative anyway.

Phoenix Rising
08-11-2005, 04:27
Hi Dave and Wizzle

Interesting part of the prophecy Pacal Votan stated, as he knew when this information was going to be discovered, this century. He also said that the people will not believe it and not care, as they will become to separated and controlled by the false counting. I will get a copy of it.
If you only knew who the Babylonians were..where they came from, also the lineages of the Roman empire?... one would not care or believe it either. The spaniards destroyed most of the Mayan books.

Dave as a astrologer would it make much difference to plotting, if this regular and equal measure calendar should become the standard?
Aren't there not 13 weeks in a season? The Mayan also accounted for the 72 years that you spoke of in this formula.

Phoenix Rising
08-11-2005, 05:12
In my tomb will be the codes to teach the people of that distant time. And my tomb will be the lesson for that distant time. In that time, no one will know any longer what we know. A few will know the count of days, but of time itself, no one will any longer know. So as has been foretold, I shall leave the message in my tomb, and the discoverer - not of the tomb but of the message of my tomb - that one, with the same sacred count, will establish a different count from the count of days, but only so that the fullness of time may be known again ... and the discoverers, too, of both the tomb and the message of the tomb, they, too, have been foreseen, they, too, have been foretold, but a very long time ago ... in another Tollan, they have been foretold. "And to help the people of that time before the great cycle closes, the discoverer of the message of my tomb must show the people of the Earth the count of the tun uc, the count of the seven, the four, and the thirteen. In this way, the knowledge of the fullness of time will be re-established, for lost will the people be in a count that is crooked, the count of the false ones. So lost will they be, they will not believe it when they are told that their crooked count has led them astray, they will not believe it when they are told that their crooked count has led them into a wilderness that is without measure, but full of smoke and plunder ... and that it is their crooked count that is responsible for the terrifying sounds and clash of metals and explosions worse than thunder ... and the cause of the destruction of life unlike anything we have ever known. "My tomb will only be discovered three katuns before The end of the cycle, 63 20-year katuns after my tomb is completed, will it finally be uncovered. So the prophecies will become known only toward the end of the second katun before the end of the cycle. This mans that only one katun, the final katun, the ultimate 13 Ahau katun, the 66th katun after the completion of my tomb, will remain when all of this must done, when the people must give up their crooked count, when the people of the Earth must have this very same knowledge shown to them as I now reveal to you ... Then must there be a calling again for the reunion of the Council of the Elders of the Earth ... They will come ... They will know who they are ... All of this has been foreseen, all of this has been foretold ... all of this has been written in a Book ..." This is the message of the Messenger of Time, the testimony of the Voice of the Tomb.

08-11-2005, 05:51
Just skimmed over everything, this is something that I have dwelled on for quite some time w/o resolution.

Observations that come to mind:

1. Halloween/Samhain 2005 coincided with the last day of Ramadan with teh hindu new year (new moon lunar based) coiciding with the Mexican day of the Dead/All saints day (gregarian based).

2. Daylight Savings and Standards fell back one hour on halloween in 2004.

3. I remember a solar eclipse occuring on dec 25 in 1999 and a full moon on Halloween in 2001

4. Election day 2004 occured on the Day of the Dead/All Saints Day.

I'm sure I can connect with more, but the gregarian system does follow some kind of pattern, and it does synch up with other patterns, but I do agree that it is a flawed system that has a difficult implnetation when it comes to a specific rythems. The matching up of certain events astrologicaly with holidays (especially) is interesting to note though.

08-11-2005, 06:31
For most of us, "time" is a means to coordinate our lives with a commonly held or observed schedule. For others, "time" is a means of measureing an event in quantum physics (lasting less than a nano-second) -- or a process in the universe lasting eons -- or the Saturn cycle which seems to have a measurable effect upon us humans -- or the Solar/seasonal cycle or the daily rotational cycle. Whatever. For many of us, "time" is merely a measuring stick.

To answer Phoenix Rising, no, it does not make any difference to me that there are other means of marking or appreciating time, other calendars, etc. My astrology software and physical reference materials provide a means to look at any point in time, as measured by common calendars, for a span of time covering almost five thousand years. Within that span, I can view the astrological sky from any place on earth at any time of day in any year. If the measurement is given in another calendar, I can convert it to an "equal" date.

And, yes, I am familiar with early cultures that studied the stars, kept records and made predictions. I am fully aware also of your interest area and the cyclic relationships they established between the orbital movements of Mercury and Venus and Mars. I have also read a lot of other materials that point to the lack of and the fluidity and the parallelism of "time" -- depending upon who is doing the writing. Does time really exist or is it a fabrication of man? Is time truly linear? Scientists say no, time is not what it appears to be. While to a large extent, time cannot be measured or experienced faster than the speed of light -- yet photon's far removed from each other (distance equals time in a Newtonian universe) can react instantaneously to each other -- simultaneous is perhaps a better word -- as if there were no distance or time between them. Indeed, there seems to be proof that the world and the universe are not what they seem at all -- nor is the mind what it seems to be. It is as if the mind and the universe were built the same way -- is the universe an idea? If distance does not relate to "time" even though light does, what does this mean? How can the planets influence us from way out there? Or fixed stars? What is a "weak" force that cannot be measured but which has impact? These are all things far beyond what the Mayan's could have comtemplated. Their culture and world views are valid, perhaps, only in their world. Their world is not ours, it may not even be a part of ours at this point. Who knows? We'll all find out in a few years. Dave

The monk
08-11-2005, 10:04
Hi everyone,
All this writing about Pacal's Tomb, and the American 2004 election falling on the Mexican Day of the dead, jogged my memory over a document i downloaded, that is on encycopedia.the free dictionary.com, ive put it on attachment.
I have a nervous dry sense of humour, so please forgive if i have a spasm of disturbed laughter.....I'm not being political, just posting an encyclopedia document, i wouldnt comment, if you read it.

08-11-2005, 11:31
<spasm of disturbing laughter> :D

remember, you win every time you say 'no'

Phoenix Rising
08-11-2005, 11:35
For most of us, "time" is a means to coordinate our lives with a commonly held or observed schedule. For others, "time" is a means of measureing an event in quantum physics (lasting less than a nano-second) -- or a process in the universe lasting eons -- or the Saturn cycle which seems to have a measurable effect upon us humans -- or the Solar/seasonal cycle or the daily rotational cycle. Whatever. For many of us, "time" is merely a measuring stick.

Hi Dave you summed up the "Time" we're using perfectly, we are organised by this mechanical clock is what I mean, we are programmed to it. We can't even tell the time now without looking at a clock or watch. Interestingly I cannot wear a watch haven't for the last 7 years. They will not work!
There is a place called "Vilcabumba" where the people age over 100 years, and look years younger, they live simply, without the burdens to technology we have in this our society.

This calendar is not a "Mayan calendar" although they had knowledge of it, it is a universal one. Polynesians used it, Druids, Egyptians, Native Americans(tipee have 28 poles) Aborigines, they lived on the other side of the world. They were in tune with nature, until they were converted to this false timing, they became colonised or civillised.

Time is of the 4th dimension. Cyclical not linear like in 3-D. Space is horizontal, time is vertical.

But according to the modern day founders who translated the "Law of time" which was also prophesised by Pacal Votan. To revert back to natural time or in harmony it will restore world peace. Now I'm for anything that will bring about world peace. What we've been going through in the last millenium certainly hasn't been a "Peaceful" period. This calendar makes more logical sense than the irregular Gregorian calendar. although it may muck up astrology a little bit won't it?

The sacred number of the calendar is 4:7:13

4x7=28-menstrual cycle, mean "average" of moon orbit
13 weeks to 4 seasons or (13x7=91) 91 days to each season
13x4=52 weeks,
52 days of each planetary(7) cycle throughout the year from birthday.

13 is a sacred number although religious groups have made it unlucky. The chaldeans stated, that "Who ever understands 13 gains power and dominion" wonder why the Great Seal of America has 13 symbology right through it. Not too mention 52 states now, but originally had 13.
The moon is represented of the feminine aspect. Because our bodies are Governed by it. The Feminine aspect has been persecuted for centuries. 12 is a number of the "Temple" 13 is number of God!

09-11-2005, 12:44
I agree that our calendar is not 'true', in the sense that our Months are not true 'Mooneth' cycles - whether these be of its phases or of its returned position relative the 'fixed' stars. Nor is our year absolutely accurate - again, whether this be determined and measured by either equinoctial or solar-stellar position.

Of course, it is in recognition of the rather awkward annual measurement of the Julian calendar that resulted in the Gregorian reform.

The problem is that all measuring approximations, when it comes to calendrical time frames, has to reconcile two or more irreconcilable 'events': that of a solar return, and and of a lunar one.

Hence our Solar-Lunar calendar has aspects never quite right.

Should the months always be deemed to begin on the New Moon? then what occurs when in one year the first cycle begins on the 1st of January, and the next, by necessity, begins either earlier or later, depending on which one wants to consider as beginning the 'new year'.

Also, if Moon phases are regarded as dominant, then the annual cycle will be incorrect - irrespective as to how one 'reconciles', for a solar cycle is very very close to 365.25 days.

Calendrical measurements, then, take into consideration that a year (considered in our society the predominant determinant) contains approximately 12 lunar cycles (actually, about 12 and a third). The solar cycle is then divided into twelve approximate months.

That the numbered months (september onwards) are two months out of whack with their name is a reflection of a couple of Roman rulers wanting their own names not forgotten (Julius and Augustus). Perhaps those numbered months should be renamed, and become november, december, onzember (;)), and, to follow that french influence of the previous suggestion, douzember.

Earlier last century (and of course during the early days of post-revolutionary France), there were indeed suggestions to introduce a new calendar that 'rectified' certain problems with the Gregorian one.

Personally, I think we have come to the stage where we could have a calendar that honoured the moon phases, whilst also allowing for a time of no-moon-name between the deemed beginning of the year (and why not make it coincident with a Solstice) and the ensuing Moon. That time could simply be extended holidays :angel:

Of course, suggesting that we have 13 months of 28 days means that we'll remain as out of kilter with the Moon phases as our current months are. So why go in that direction?

The problem is one that reflects the subtle and ongoing non-fixed relative motions of the Earth (including its gyrating rotational axis), the Moon (which has minor variations over time), the Sun (with its impact on the whole solar system), and whether we take as our points of departure solar-tropical or solar-stellar points, and lunar-stellar or lunar-solar (Moon phases) points.

The world is beautifully complex, and no calendrical adaptation will totally reflect all its cyclic subtleties.

Phoenix Rising
09-11-2005, 19:05
Hi all this is a brief explanation from one of the founders who emailed me as to some questions I had about this calendar.

The 13-Moon, 28-Day Calendar of Planetary Peace is a perpetual,
harmonic calendar. The term "Moon" refers to the average female
fertility cycle of 28 days, which is also the *average lunar cycle.

(*28-DAYS IS THE AVERAGE LUNAR CYCLE: What is commonly known as the
lunar cycle is the synodic cycle of 29.5 days (new moon to new moon).
The moon's sidereal cycle is just over 27 days (when it reappears in
the same place in the sky). The world's lunar calendars are synodical
and have only 12 months and 354 days a year. In actuality, the moon
rotates around the Earth thirteen times during the time it takes the
Earth to orbit the Sun once! Therefore, this functions as a perfect
solar-lunar calendar.)

13 perfect months of 28-days = 52 perfect weeks of 7 days = 364 days.
As the New Year correlates to July 26th, the 365th day (always July
25th) is called the "Day out of Time," an international holiday
celebrating "Peace Through Culture," and "Time is Art!"

While the 13-Moon/28-day count is over 5500 years old and has been used
cross-culturally as the logical and harmonious way to measure the year,
this Dreamspell system integrates the 260-day galactic cycle into the
13-moon calendar, providing a basis to experience and examine
the "Synchronic Order of Time." These galactic energies are described
in terms of 13-day "wavespell" cycles which each impart a unique
creative focus, inspiring our mental and spiritual evolution.

According to the 13-Moon Dreamspell Calendar System, every 28-day Moon
also corresponds to one of the 13 Tones of Creation which gives it a
unique energy and focus. (In other words, there are layers of cycles
from the year, to the moon, to the wavespell, to the day, each adding
to the qualities of energy and the possibilites for tracking

By tracking the galactic cycle in relation to the year cycle, we are
bridging the fourth-dimensional energies of the "galactic spin" into
the third-dimensional rhythms of the 13 Moon year. This bridging
assures a perfect cycle of a 52-year round; a cycle of 18,980 days
called Tunben K'ak, the Binding of the Years. The harmony of this
calendric system is that every 52 years equals 73 galactic spins, no
two days are the same, and the entire 18,980 days of the cycle are to
be repeated every 52 years in an upward moving spiral of time!

10-11-2005, 09:56
As can be seen from the email reply posted by Phoenix Rising (thankyou for that, Phoenix), the proposed calendar would never be in phase with the Moon - whether taking its synodic-phase aspect, or its sidereal-stellar return.

Further, even if there was a precise 13 rotations of the Moon from a terrestrial observation point, these do not break evenly into 28 days, as shown above, resulting in an additional 'holiday day' to be added.

That proposed calendar (there have also been others, of course) has, as other proposed calendars, its own merit... but not, as far as I am personally concerned, sufficient to warrant its adoption.

I would personally prefer a calendar that reflected a year having as its months some genuine link to lunar-phase cycles - and of course, this has its own problems. At least then, however, looking up at the sky would reflect the time of the month by the moon's phase.

Another brief comment as to the statement in the above email that 'the New Year correlates to July 26th'. I am to presume that this is because of a Sirius-Solar connection, but one, I would suggest, that does not take into account cycles far closer to Earth.

I would, again, suggest that though it may be a wonderful opportunity for a day of celebration (and the conjunction of the Sun and other major stars as well, for that matter), the year be calendrically linked to events that are clear and obviously cyclic, such as solstices.

If not solstitial, then at least the perihelion would be more appropriate, to my mind, than a Sirius-Solar conjunction (my assumption as to why the 26th of July may be incorrect here, of course, and may in fact be no more than a shift of the calendar to linking that date with a solstice).

What I have yet to be convinced of is how this proposed calendar in any way is the best possible solution - for to my reflections, I could easily propose one I would find better reflected natural cosmic events focussed, as calendars are, on Solar-Lunar events.

Phoenix Rising
10-11-2005, 10:56

Yes 26th July was the Sirius-solar rising, I am not sure of why that has a significance, but what's so significant about 1 January? The 28 days was the average mean of the synodical 29.2 & 27.5 sidereal lunar cycles. As well as being representative of the female menstrual cycle. Although it's not ever going to be a perfect tie up with lunar and solar, it sure is closer than any other I've seen so far.

It still seems more logical and better than the unequal Gregorian calendar we're using at the moment.

If you've read the previous posts about the prophecy, it may make sense why the Mayan prefer this calendar.

It is interesting though, how people try to find a fault in this more harmonious calendar, rather than seeing the many flaws in the Gregorian?

But great opinion all the same JMD...thanks heaps!

10-11-2005, 11:16
I agree without any reservations that the Gregorian calendar has problems - that is not at issue. At its simplest level, it is just a Julian calendar that had gone astray and brought back somewhat into line with the solar annual cycle, disregarding all other aspects once incorporated, including its possible earlier correlation with a tropical zodiacal division into twelve equal parts.

I just do not think the proposed alternative is sufficiently reflective of natural solar-lunar cycles to warrant its adoption.

The 1st of January significance is related to the two-faced God Janus, by the way, with one face (the old) looking back over the previous year, and the other (the young) facing forward into the year ahead.

As to whether or not the 1st of January should be moved back in line with the (northern) Winter Solstice, it would certainly make sense... but then, it also makes sense in its current location as being the twelfth day after that solstice, within which is Christmas.

My point here being that important calendrical meaning may be suggested for our current 'faulty' calendar, in the same way as important calendrical meaning may also be suggested for the proposed alternative.

Neither of these, however, find a natural reflection in solar-lunar cycle in terms of equinoctial/solstitial and lunar-phase observations of our natural world.

10-11-2005, 11:40
and then there is this http://www.atlantium.org/calendaran.html

Although, it does change a great deal of things, and how does that apply to the zodiac? Adapting to a new calander is fine, but it will take a gradual amount of time.

Phoenix Rising
11-11-2005, 04:27

I'm enjoying your points. As for this God Janus? He is just a myth, a legend, and has nothing to do with any heavenly/celestial point of reference in the Night sky. Obviously January didn't used to be the New Year because they are still 2 months out.
Maybe it would be just to much of a hazzle to change...so just better off having a crooked calendar.

Christmas is meant to celebrate Christ birthday isn't it? But that's not even correct.
I think they must of just chosen certain dates to fit in with solstices and seasons.

Good topic though thanks for input everyone

Phoenix Rising
11-11-2005, 06:28
Hey Paradoxx

I took a look at that link you gave of the Atlantium calendar, and that one is just as crappy as Gregorian.....LOL :joke:

11-11-2005, 07:39
It is a bother to use isn't it.