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rachnasingh
08-11-2005, 03:09
I recently read that Saturn Returns can some one plz explain what this means . Saturn is in leo and its said that if you are turning 30 or 45 and if saturn is in your sign then its big turning point or that saturn is returning

dadsnook2000
08-11-2005, 03:43
rachnasingh, there are two broad types of "Returns." A solar or lunar return refers to a chart cast for the exact time that the Sun or Moon returns (same as transits) its natal place. Because these bodies, and in some cases also Mercury-Venus-Mars, move relatively fast in a day's time, the "return" point can be calculated quite accurately.

The outer planets are another thing altogether as their movement is mostly too slow to be able to proportionalize daily movement to the point where you can tell within a minute or so (or even 30 minutes) when the planet is back at its natal position. So, for Jupiter outward, a "return" usually refers to the day or period of days/weeks when the planet returns to about where it was when you were born.

This is actually quite adequate as the planetary cycles of this group are so long -- 12 years for Jupiter, 29 years for Saturn, etc. We can evaluate and see the actual effects of these planets when looking at them as "cycles" of movement. If Saturn is square, more or less, to your birth Saturn, then we can examine how Saturn is presently challenging you to adopt strategies and better use resources at this point in your life. This is just a simple example.

Saturn Returns typically occur about the time one is 29 years of age. At this point almost everyone feels like they are passing through a "maturing" point. Around the age of 42-43 Saturn is making its second opposition point to where is was at birth -- this is a time when one often rebels at being mature and responsible. This phenomena, for men, is often called the seven-year itch when they buy a sports car, take up playing weekend semi-pro football, or find another/younger woman to flirt with. Around age 58 you reach your second Saturn Return period. The cycle goes on.

Some people find it interesting to compare transiting Saturn's cycle with the progressed Moon cycle -- both last about 29 years. Saturn has to do with the maturing process, Moon has to do with the emotional process. In the birth chart Saturn and Moon often define the family life we are born into in terms of structures provided and needs that are met or not met. Dave.

rachnasingh
09-11-2005, 20:34
rachnasingh, This phenomena, for men, is often called the seven-year itch when they buy a sports car, take up playing weekend semi-pro football, or find another/younger woman to flirt with. Around age 58 you reach your second Saturn Return period. The cycle goes on.

Dave.
Dave
What about woman , how does this return effects them , is it for good

dadsnook2000
09-11-2005, 21:42
Of course the Saturn transits to conjunct, square and oppose the natal position also impact women -- who do you think those men are fooling around with. Not the dog! People are people. Saturn often seems to act as one's "inner voice", as a maturing driver, as a nagging factor that distracts us from the things we do to avoid taking responsibility.

Again, if you wish to back-check on prior Saturn transits to your chart, then why not also check out your secondary-progressed Moon. Saturn is the social responsibility, the personal maturing energy, the family structure force in our charts. The Moon is our deepest needs, social nuturing and emotional sensitivity factor. Together they can point out early family life, growing-up pressures, maturing and dedication for adults, the adaptation to getting along in the world approach that we develop as individuals.

dave

wizzle
10-11-2005, 02:38
Dad explained the mechanics of a return and gave some examples. Since everyone's chart is different, everyone will experience their return in a different way. But the common factor is the meaning of the planet. And I mean THE PLANET, not "saturn in scorpio, aries, etc." which tends to cloud what the planet is all about. Remember that first and foremost planets represent the different types of energies in our horoscope.

Briefly, the energy of Saturn includes:
fears
limitations
authority/responsibility
the native's view of his/her father
boundaries
materialism
ambition/position in life
"earthy" stuff like the suit of pentacles in the tarot
time and aging

Also, the planets saturn and venus will try to materialize their energies. With a saturn return, you get this energy of materialization acting on your natal saturn which deals with the stuff on the list (plus more). Thus, during a saturn return you will find yourself dealing with that list in a material way. In my case, during my first saturn return, I had my child. Children certainly present a major limitation for most people and I was ready to take on a big responsibility. Also, during a saturn return we confront our fears (or get overwhelmed by them) which is why the return can be VERY unpleasant.

I'm currently "doing" my 2nd saturn return during which time I've learned Tarot (a good thing) and am studying the occult in general (I have saturn in my 12th house). But I'm also confronting my deep attachment to my house and getting ready to part with it in favor of living abroad for a few years before I get too old. In this way I'm confronting two things.... the security of staying at home and my advancing age. The first saturn return seems to be more about building up limitations while the second return deals with examining where we limit ourselves. A great book on saturn is Liz Greene's "Saturn; a New Look at an Old Devil."

Hope this helps.

dadsnook2000
10-11-2005, 05:02
That was a nice summary you posted. Anyways, I've done my 2nd Saturn Return -- not sure how to summarize what it brought me. My Saturn is in the 10th house so it often shows up in work-related issues. April-95, Nov.-95 Rx-- Stationary--Direct on its natal position.

At that time I left Software Marketing (April-95) and went into business systems consulting. By Nov/Dec I had developed a new business plan for the consulting company I joined and we lauched it with great success, growing from 5 people to over 20 people in a couple of year's time. But, what were the lessons learned? -- the adaptations made? -- the changes in me? This is what a Saturn Return is all about!

I had left several software marketing jobs after being highly successful, in three instances due to rapid growth and the influx of new Vice Presidents or owners/merges due to that growth -- and was then expelled so others could enjoy the benefits earned. Lesson learned -- politics in a growing/large company is a necessary part of the job as larger companies value people skills better than strong capability.

At the consulting company, the capabilities were needed to lay the basis for growth and opportunity, but the customers were all multi-national corporations and great care had to be exercised to deal with them. Lesson learned --- adaptation is possible, old dogs can learn new tricks.

Looking at companies from the outside, as a consultant, permitted a different perspective that allowed me to better see the politics between people and their personal and corporate competitors. I didn't become cynical or anything like that but it did seem humorous to see people putting in 80-hour work weeks and traveling 20 to 25 days a month -- all for money but with no real lasting benefit to themselves. After all, in 2001, the industry crashed and 95% of them were out of a job, out of that career field, and on the streets.

I really didn't care about my personal security. I was able to not work, the house was paid for, we were raising three adopted grandchildren and had enough income, so we started traveling, spent whole summers on Cape Cod, and did a lot more astrology and tarot work. I had fully changed from being "my job" to being me.

All in all, I guess that Saturn Return worked out well. Now, for the next Saturn opposition so I can re-experience my "seven year itch." Dave