all these different decks/images/meanings

when i started with tarot knew the traditional ones, rws, morgan greer, mythic, etc etc

now after joining this forum i see there are hundreds of the buggers lol

which is a good thing

my question for this thread is - since the images can be so different in each deck for the same card does this just mean that you get so many more layers of meaning for a specific card but the underlying message is one and all connected

or does it mean that in different decks you can have a completely different meanings for the same cards

which also begs the question are there any meanings to numbers/suits at all (must be some foundation) or does it all come from intuition/whats in your mind from what you have learned in your life about various subjects/theories

sorry if thats a vague question
just thinking about it last couple of weeks

My suggestion: one deck, one reading at a time.

I realize if you were trying to do figure out a science or a math or another analytical process in a logical way, it would be easier to generalize a reading experience....let me try to say a bit of the numbering that I favor. Hope it comes out clear.

Usually, I've been approaching different questions in different ways because of the deck I choose. So my approach depends on the deck and question.

My generally favored approach today (which can change) is to use decks that have majors following the "Continental" (Justice is Eight; Strength is Eleven) label--the "Continental" is a label that I think is applied from Tarot for Yourself (Mary Greer). Others may disagree and say the decks that I am speaking about tend to draw from Marseilles & Milanese style patterns. The placement of the Fool might also vary--I like the order I see from some Milanese decks where the instructions place the Fool last.

The handling of the minors can depend on a certain historical pattern or author/artist's tastes, if there is a text reference included in the deck... I've seen descriptions that can vary from "Pythogorean" numerology to sources that pull from an art or cultural theme or a reinterpretation of an author such as Etteilla, Eudes Picard or Arthur Waite...sometimes in older-style decks, the author makes it up from a combination of unreferenced sources.

In general, if I use unillustrated minors in readings, there are some texts or hints that I pull from, but it depends on the question and the day. In a reading that I'm outlining, I noticed a Chariot came up first (VII) and a Seven of Cups and Seven of Pentacles--while this is interesting to me in terms of picking out a 'pattern,' my standard for the minors is to look at the suit first as an element that is similar to a human counterpart. Say Cups are emotions and flow and Pentacles are material wealth and physical body or well-being. Seven of Cups in a RWS is about facing delusions and Seven of Pentacles is about assessing the fruits of one's labor--this does filter into my thoughts about meanings, but in the context of the question, it's the reoccurance of 'sevens' that is catching my eye.

That's the beginning of what goes on in my mind as I analyze the layout. So perhaps it is safe to say there are layers of meanings and associations with the numbers--as directed by the deck and the question.

I'm fascinated with the different ways of reading minors and haven't come up with one standard way yet.

Regards,

Cerulean

Hi star-lover,

These are wonderful questions . . . and although I don’t think there are definitive answers for any of them, I’m going to weigh in with my opinions . . .

As you noted, there are indeed hundreds of the buggers (that is, decks ), even thousands. And I agree with you that it is a good thing.

Now, your first question:

star-lover said:

Since the images can be so different in each deck for the same card does this just mean that you get so many more layers of meaning for a specific card but the underlying message is one and all connected,
or does it mean that in different decks you can have a completely different meanings for the same cards?

Click to expand...

Well, I’m tempted to simply answer “Yes” to both questions. In my experience, both of the things you mention are true. Let’s pick a card at random – say, the 4 of Cups. Well, by just looking at the 4 of Cups in one deck, I can find many layers of possible “meaning.” But if I look at the 4 of Cups in a few other decks for comparison sake, in my experience, I may end up finding additional layers of meaning. Not always (depends on the decks I’m using), but sometimes. And when I pick a deck that’s truly beyond the pale (for me, perhaps the Voyager or the Blue Rose) then often I will end up arriving at a “meaning” that is far different from the one I would normally assign to the 4 of Cups in, say, the Rider-Waite-Smith. I do not mean to suggest, however, that everyone's tarot experience will be made richer by using multiple decks. A single deck will do it – I just happen to be a collector, so I have an obvious bias towards multi-deck comparison.

Notice that I’m using words such as “possible,” “sometimes,” and “often.” I find it difficult to be concrete when talking about tarot. To me, nothing ever seems set in stone.

star-lover said:

which also begs the question are there any meanings to numbers/suits at all (must be some foundation) or does it all come from intuition/whats in your mind from what you have learned in your life about various subjects/theories?

Click to expand...

Well, again I’m tempted to answer “Yes” and just leave it at that . But seriously, yes, there are meanings attributed to particular suits and particular numbers. But those meanings vary according to what general type of deck you are using (Marseille, Rider-Waite-Smith, Thoth, other, etc.) as well as according to numerous other factors. So perhaps it would better to talk of tarot “foundations” rather than looking for a single source. While I don’t think that it “all” comes from my intuition and experience when I read the cards, those two things certainly play a huge part.

Not sure that I’ve really given you any answers here . . . but thanks for asking the questions! It’s always interesting to discuss these issues.

star-lover said:

when i started with tarot knew the traditional ones, rws, morgan greer, mythic, etc etc

now after joining this forum i see there are hundreds of the buggers lol

which is a good thing

my question for this thread is - since the images can be so different in each deck for the same card does this just mean that you get so many more layers of meaning for a specific card but the underlying message is one and all connected

or does it mean that in different decks you can have a completely different meanings for the same cards

which also begs the question are there any meanings to numbers/suits at all (must be some foundation) or does it all come from intuition/whats in your mind from what you have learned in your life about various subjects/theories

sorry if thats a vague question
just thinking about it last couple of weeks

Click to expand...

I think you may get a lot of different answers here. There are many ways of using and viewing Tarot. Each of us has to find our own path, follow what FEELS right to us. The best I can do is tell you what has worked best for me and seemed most valid to me on my path. No one can find your path for you but yourself.

Yep, there sure are a LOT of decks out there, thousands and thousands. More than anyone could learn or afford to buy. Wish I could afford every deck ever made, but that's not happening!

I think the suits have set meanings to me. A Swords card is about your thoughts, Cups about your feelings...That for me stays the same. Although it does not hurt to check your deck's LWB on that. I recently got the Golden Tarot of Klimt and the meanings the deck gives to the suits is very very different and unique to what one would expect, in a nice way.

Other than that, for myself, I don't consider there is really any message that needs to carry over from one deck to the other. I read quite intuitively so I just analyse the image and it's parts to find my answer. And as each deck I own is so different there is not likely to be much similiarity in the asnwers from the same card in two decks. Plus I have seen that even the book meanings from some of my decks vary quite greatly. So I just analyse my imagery and do not fuss too much with predetermined meanings. Not much I say because I have a basic uncerstanding about the Majors. If the Lovers card comes up, it is likely about love, the High Priestess about intuition...so that can enter into it, but my reading is really mainly intuitive. And I have never studied card meanings...

Bar

Cerulean said:

my standard for the minors is to look at the suit first as an element that is similar to a human counterpart. Say Cups are emotions and flow and Pentacles are material wealth and physical body or well-being. Seven of Cups in a RWS is about facing delusions and Seven of Pentacles is about assessing the fruits of one's labor--this does filter into my thoughts about meanings, but in the context of the question, it's the reoccurance of 'sevens' that is catching my eye.

Click to expand...

that sounds like a good way to start - with the suit so you have the basis of what is involved and then mix that with the symbology of the number to see what it means put together and come up with your own interpretation - thank you - beginners should definitely keep it simple and people who tend to overcomplicate things (like moi lol)

Annabelle4 said:

Hi star-lover,

These are wonderful questions . . . and although I don’t think there are definitive answers for any of them, I’m going to weigh in with my opinions . . .

As you noted, there are indeed hundreds of the buggers (that is, decks ), even thousands. And I agree with you that it is a good thing.

Now, your first question:

Well, I’m tempted to simply answer “Yes” to both questions. In my experience, both of the things you mention are true. Let’s pick a card at random – say, the 4 of Cups. Well, by just looking at the 4 of Cups in one deck, I can find many layers of possible “meaning.” But if I look at the 4 of Cups in a few other decks for comparison sake, in my experience, I may end up finding additional layers of meaning. Not always (depends on the decks I’m using), but sometimes. And when I pick a deck that’s truly beyond the pale (for me, perhaps the Voyager or the Blue Rose) then often I will end up arriving at a “meaning” that is far different from the one I would normally assign to the 4 of Cups in, say, the Rider-Waite-Smith. I do not mean to suggest, however, that everyone's tarot experience will be made richer by using multiple decks. A single deck will do it – I just happen to be a collector, so I have an obvious bias towards multi-deck comparison.

Notice that I’m using words such as “possible,” “sometimes,” and “often.” I find it difficult to be concrete when talking about tarot. To me, nothing ever seems set in stone.


Well, again I’m tempted to answer “Yes” and just leave it at that . But seriously, yes, there are meanings attributed to particular suits and particular numbers. But those meanings vary according to what general type of deck you are using (Marseille, Rider-Waite-Smith, Thoth, other, etc.) as well as according to numerous other factors. So perhaps it would better to talk of tarot “foundations” rather than looking for a single source. While I don’t think that it “all” comes from my intuition and experience when I read the cards, those two things certainly play a huge part.

Not sure that I’ve really given you any answers here . . . but thanks for asking the questions! It’s always interesting to discuss these issues.

Click to expand...

thanks for all that - i understood it completely and agree totally
i had a look at voyager 4 of cups LOL - who needs magic mushrooms - not my cup of tea

SunChariot said:

I think you may get a lot of different answers here. There are many ways of using and viewing Tarot. Each of us has to find our own path, follow what FEELS right to us. The best I can do is tell you what has worked best for me and seemed most valid to me on my path. No one can find your path for you but yourself.

Yep, there sure are a LOT of decks out there, thousands and thousands. More than anyone could learn or afford to buy. Wish I could afford every deck ever made, but that's not happening!

I think the suits have set meanings to me. A Swords card is about your thoughts, Cups about your feelings...That for me stays the same. Although it does not hurt to check your deck's LWB on that. I recently got the Golden Tarot of Klimt and the meanings the deck gives to the suits is very very different and unique to what one would expect, in a nice way.

Other than that, for myself, I don't consider there is really any message that needs to carry over from one deck to the other. I read quite intuitively so I just analyse the image and it's parts to find my answer. And as each deck I own is so different there is not likely to be much similiarity in the asnwers from the same card in two decks. Plus I have seen that even the book meanings from some of my decks vary quite greatly. So I just analyse my imagery and do not fuss too much with predetermined meanings. Not much I say because I have a basic uncerstanding about the Majors. If the Lovers card comes up, it is likely about love, the High Priestess about intuition...so that can enter into it, but my reading is really mainly intuitive. And I have never studied card meanings...

Bar

Click to expand...

thank you sunchariot
i think where i'm going wrong is using one deck and trying to remember the meanings from the original rws i learnt with - what i need to do is go back to scratch and as you say look at the images and try reading intuitively from them and supplementing of course with the traditional to help

so from now on i am going to see if the traditional meanings actually match or not with my deck and if they don't - i have the cosmic tart and many of the cards are different from the rws - ie you have one person on the same card in one deck and 2 people on the other i've noticed - then i will study that card more

out of curiosity i'm going to look at the klimt tarot see how that is different

star-lover said:

<snip>

my question for this thread is - since the images can be so different in each deck for the same card does this just mean that you get so many more layers of meaning for a specific card but the underlying message is one and all connected

or does it mean that in different decks you can have a completely different meanings for the same cards

Click to expand...

I think this falls under the "Obi Wan Kenobi" rule. Both statements are true, from a certain point of view. Also a certain deck, in this instance. I also find that sometimes one deck will take the archetype and focus on one aspect of it and another deck will focus on a different one.
I am no expert by far, but I've seen decks with Justice as 8, Justice as 11, and Justice as "Poetic Justice." Each position/aspect brings to the fore a different meaning. In addition, with illustrations, your own response, as well as the querent's response to the illustration will affect the reading. This is particularly present in fan decks.

which also begs the question are there any meanings to numbers/suits at all (must be some foundation) or does it all come from intuition/whats in your mind from what you have learned in your life about various subjects/theories

Click to expand...

Again, both answers seem to work. I think the best answer is a paraphrase of a different one I once heard/read somewhere. The question was regarding what the definition of a pagan was. The answer was, "if you ask 12 pagans, you'll get 13 answers." I think that applies to tarot meanings also. And don't forget that not all traditions pair the suits with elements the same way.

sorry if thats a vague question
just thinking about it last couple of weeks

Click to expand...

Not a problem! I don't think it's a vague question, but more of confirming an observation on your part. ;-)

I tend to stick to one deck for a long time, then when it feels like its gone stale I get another, but I never have more than 3 decks at once ever. And also common sense....dont use hippy/new-age/fairy decks for tough crabbit old men...and dont use the st. petersberg for romantic young girls ! lol

mingbop said:

I tend to stick to one deck for a long time, then when it feels like its gone stale I get another, but I never have more than 3 decks at once ever. And also common sense....dont use hippy/new-age/fairy decks for tough crabbit old men...and dont use the st. petersberg for romantic young girls ! lol

Click to expand...

LOL!!!!@you
good advice there

i only have one deck the cosmic - its not my favourite but one i landed with out of circumstance - i had a load of them i bought on wholesale to resell and that one was left that no one wanted (maybe thats a good sign) so will give it a good shot before branching out - 6 months i reckon, maybe a little less

thanks fairiesage you understood my thinkings

x