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View Full Version : Planet Series: The SUN & MOON relationship -- a PARTICIPATION thread.


dadsnook2000
30-01-2006, 05:20
In this thread I want to do two things:
** I want to offer some views about the Sun and Moon in a relationship sense, how they work together.
** I also want to use some of the chart data posted previously by the participants to illustrate some of these themes -- hopefully with that person providing feedback about what is said.

To start this thread off, I will talk about the Sun-Moon cycle and I will utilize both aspects and phases as a means of defining the many relationships that seem useful in chart interpretation. Now, I am also going to try to avoid the repetition of text book meanings -- each of you can look those up yourselves. I merely wish to get your thinking processes engaged.

SUN CONUNCT MOON and MOON IN THE 1st "PERFORMER" PHASE
At this point in the Sun-Moon cycle the Moon is nowhere to be seen in the night sky. Prior to and at your birth moment, you experienced a phase where the Moon was approaching the Sun (as viewed from Earth). We can look at this point as meaning that the Moon was blocking the Sun's energy, that the Moon was consumed by the Sun's energy, that the two were combining into something new and different from their indiviudal meanings.

I have noted in several charts that new moon or eclipse babies and, later as young adults, have a curious lack of outwardly obvious energy. They seem quiet and "laid back" when you meet them. Yet, this stage is often claimed to be indicative of people whose actions cause them to be at odds with those around them, whose emotional make-up (moon) is such that they act impetuously (sun) and in their own immediate self-interests. This causes them to become the focus of other peoples attention.

I have also noted in several charts that an angular Moon or angular Sun-Moon pattern equates to autism, another way of acting out in ones life such that the person's actions cause consequences that others have to take note of.

Whenever the Sun and Moon are at/near conjunction, or when the Moon natally is within the first 45 degrees following the Sun (we see this in the sky at evening time as a crescent moon), that I initially view the person as some form of "performer" or person who acts in some ways in a very un-inhibited manner.

SUN SEMI-SQUARE MOON (opening semi-square) & 2nd "WORKER" PHASE
When the Moon has moved ahead of the Sun by 45 degrees up to 90 degrees, this phase is called the Worker Phase. One seems to be involved in breaking free of the past -- the way that parent lived and acted, the type of child-hood education and family practices learned when younger, or the way that ones culture and homeland acted. The effort seems to be to establish one's own identify.

In this phase, one may have reached (at time of birth) a position where the Moon was 45 degrees ahead of the Sun (a semi-square), is approaching a square at 90 degrees, or is near a sextile aspect (60 degrees). While near the 45 degree angle, one may just find it an uncomfortable part of their life to want to be themselves, near the 60 degree angle they may focus more on understanding the way their parents lived and worked and why things have to now change, while near the 90 degree aspect they take more obious action and rebellious approachs to re-shaping their lives. In this phase I would be sensitive to assessing the SUN-MOON relationship relative to the classical aspect the Moon was nearest, but would keep the overall theme of "working to change oneself" in mind.

SUN SQUARE MOON and the "ACTIVIST" PHASE.
The opening square aspect is well described in the text books. The Sun's will and identifty is challenged by the Moons emotional responses, habits and needs. This works out in boy-girl relationships, in health issues, in social and work formats as forms of conflict. This conflict is often one-sided as the person plunges into things and forces his values or needs onto others, and this may be very inconsistent in its application.

As a phase, this lasts from the 90 degree to the 135 degree area ahead of the Sun. So, this phase covers the square, the trine and the square-and-a-half aspects. Are there conflicts in this group of aspects relative to the phases' meaning of "Activist" wherein the person plunges into self-expression? Perhaps not. The square is accepted by all as signifying a struggle -- this meaning fits. The trine is generally seen as helping something function smoothly, with ease. Consider this; the person in this phase with a trine aspect may not see his/her adverse impact on others but just plows ahead in an oblivious way, trying to accomplish his/her tasks in his/her manner and expecting others to follow sutie. This is a different view of the trine aspect, isn't it?

Finally, the square and a half aspect of 135 degrees. As this portion of the Sun-Moon cycle is approach or is found in the natal chart, we know we are dealing with someone who symbolically has challenged the system, has had a time of getting away with questionable behavior, and now has to again make adjustments -- this time as if he/she had prior experience. At this phase or aspect we can perhaps assume that the chart owner has become aware that he/she needs to take on new tactics and find smarter, better ways to achieve things in the manner they have been using or are using.

So, I'll leave this topic at this point. Those of you who have these aspects or whose Sun-Moon phase is covered in this post may want to express your views of how you work out these SUN-MOON things. Dave

dadsnook2000
30-01-2006, 11:08
In this coverage of the Sun-Moon relationships I have talked of both aspects and cycle-phases. Its now time, having covered the Moon and the Sun seperately, as well as starting to look at their relationship, to start using the participant's charts or chart data to compare to what I have said earlier.

Whether there is a classical aspect such as a conjunction, opposition, trine, square, semi-square or sesquiquadrate (135 degrees), or one of the many "minor" aspects such as sextiles, bi-quintiles, etc., there is always a relationship between any pair of astrological bodies. That's where the cycle-phase comes in. The point is that the two "lights" of the chart are so important that we have to start with their relationship, no matter how the chart presents it to us! This is so important!

**Al Si'ra has the Moon 39 degrees ahead of the Sun, not a classical aspect but a PERFORMER PHASE relationship. Instinctively, his actions and behavior will tend to express itself in such a way as to make him noticed by others. This form of "being noticed" is quite different from Michael Jackson the singer and entertainer who has Sun opposite Moon. M.J. grew up seeking one-on-one approval from anyone he interacted with, going to great lengths to show off. Al Si'ra's actions are a result of life-style and personality, what is done happens to disrupt or call attention from others. This is the Sun expressing its will without the Moon being in a strong position to reflect the views of others or to offer a perspective of interaction between others that can be compared to the self's own way of behaving. This type of Performer may not be aware or caring of the way in which others see him/her. This phase represents just "being", just expressing the exhuberance of life. When we see that the Sun is near the IC of the chart and the Moon is in the 4th house area, we see that personal values, beliefs and early childhood training were likely a strong influence and supports this cycle-phase.

** Star Lover is an example of the 45 to 90 phase, the Worker phase, with an angle of seperation of 77 degrees. This also is not a classical aspect, so we have to look at the cycle-phase to learn about the Sun-Moon interaction.
Sun is at/near the 2nd house cusp, the Moon is in the 4th house, so one's personal values and efforts to achieve stability and place within the community will be strong. Given this phase, the Worker phase, achieving stability and a substantial personal environment is probably related to a struggle to break from the past -- perhaps the parents were poor or had relocated their home such that early upbringing left Star Rover with a sense that some important things were lacking. Or current beliefs are just at odds with parental beliefs and values. In any case, something of this sort is indicated and will be used to clue us in on other aspects of the chart for either refinement of meaning or changes in our assessment. But, this is where we would start from.

This covers those people and charts who have been addressed in the earlier thread about Sun-Moon aspects and phases. They and others are free to comment and ask questions.

Remember, at this stage, I am not trying to provide copious understanding and bits of factual information to be melded into a whole story. This is not like the Tarot process. Initially, when first looking at a chart, I am looking for clues as to what the person's overall life theme is. The Sun-Moon pair provides a portion of this theme. Thats all. If i come away from this process with just one summary sentance of likely theme-meaning, that is all I need. I am trying to gather a few specifics, not a large number of generalities. Dave.

huredriel
30-01-2006, 19:52
Hi Dave,

Just wondering what type of relationship it is called when the Moon is behind the sun but still in sextile (I think).

Thanks
x Huredriel

dadsnook2000
30-01-2006, 23:01
When the Moon is less than 45 degrees behind the Sun and catching up with the Sun, the Moon is in the PROPHET phase. When the Moon is between 90 degrees (closing square) and 45 degrees behind the Sun and catching up with the Sun, the Moon is in the CHANGER phase. We will be covering these soon. Dave.

star-lover
31-01-2006, 00:03
this is a little above my head but i had to say that i totally agree with your description of this from personal experience - indeed my parents were poor and we did emigrate when i was around 5 years old to this country with very little money and they had to struggle

the other thing mentioned is true too - i have spent most of my adult life trying to break free of my parents and/or cultural influence - something i am only just beginning at age 45 to manage - it was like whatever i did or wanted had to be passed against the test of would they approve of it/would it upset them (though i have to say i think most of it was in my mind though it has left me in between a rock and a hard place for many years) - it's something which i think will never go away to be honest but it is lessening more and more now

dadsnook2000
31-01-2006, 04:54
Thank you star-lover for sharing that information. It will give the participants the confidence to better adapt to the ways I'm teaching them. Its hard for astrological students and early-learners to see astrology as being "simple." in your example it was the very brief meaning that I gave for the Sun-Moon phase, pluse the location of the Sun and Moon by "house" that made up the rational for the simple statement I made. No signs, no complex aspects, no rulerships, no dignities and determents or day-night houses, asteroids or anything. Just some very simple ideas using very simple pieces of the puzzle.

As we go along, I may or may not be correct with others to this degree of specificness, but the general shape or meaning will be true. The idea is find a simple specific one or two items and to then build upon them using similar techniques. We may refine and adjust our understanding as we go through the steps, but we continue in this manner. Again, thank you for sharing. Dave

dadsnook2000
31-01-2006, 09:49
Once we start to close in on the full moon position we see more light in the early evening and mid-night sky. The moon illuminates more, the shadows are more intense and in contrast to the brighter moonshine. The metaphore also applies to our Sun-Moon awareness -- the Sun becomes more important in terms of the reflected light, the Moon becomes more interesing but less mysterious in terms of fearing the night, being misled by dim shadows.

Once we are reach the sesquiquadrate (square and a half or 135 degree aspect) we have left behind the supposedly easy trine. All that is left to pass over is the 135 degree aspect and the inconjunct aspect. We may or may not actually have these aspects but we are in the Sun-Moon phase that contains them -- this is the Analyst Phase.

The ANALYST PHASE person seeks methods to fit his/her needs, asks the profound question "why?" and eliminates ideas and practices that are wasteful. How does the 135 and 150 degree aspects fit into this overall picture? The 135 degree aspect, as promulgated by Ebertin's research and some 80 years of practice and affirmation, is a hard and challenging aspect, It struggles not with forgetting the past of our parents and heritage but with the immaturity and earlier-in-this-life experiences of yourself. Its a working smarter, not working harder aspect. Its work with some appreciation of the past -- not dislike of the past. Its a growing awareness aspect.

The inconjunct aspect signifies "adjustments" and "refinements" as a prelude to reaching the opposition point, the confrontation point, the promise of partnership and commitment. Its a time to practice and achieve "getting it right for once."

Following the Analyst Phase, the Sun will find the Moon at its full moon position or past that -- anywhere from 180 degrees to 225 degrees is what is called the SEEKER phase. By now the Moon has reached its full point and still lights up the whole night untill dawn comes. We can explore the night just as easily as the day. In this phase, we have the 180 degree aspect, the opposition, and the closing 210 degree closing inconjunct aspect. What does the Seeker phase claim to offer? Illumination or instability, a crises in either knowing or in doing. Wizzle had used the word "lunacy" -- a condition that we associate with the full moon. This was thought of, not so long ago, as the time for werewolves and those in asylumns to cry out in dispair and rage. While not seen as such by most people today, we still biologically react to this stage of the Moon through increased police arrests and crime, difficulty with surgery due to blood flow and low clotting levels, people acting stranger than normal as measured by many social institutions.

The opposition suggests male-versus-female views, arguments, heated passions, easily triggered habit patterns. Normally in astrology we see this 180 degree aspect as representing partnerships or enemies, projection or acceptance, offerings or denials. It is a very polarizing aspect.

The inconjunct, a minor aspect, is actually a "healing" or improvement aspect for the opposition. Again, adjustments and refinements are offered but this time it applies not to the self but to the relationship -- whatever kind of relationship it may be.

Following all of this, the Moon perceptually decreases in size and does not appear in the early evening sky. It spans the late night and intrudes into our daylight morning hours -- a sort of carry over from the night reminding us of our experiences there and then. At the 225 degree point ahead of the Sun, we enter the BELIEVER phase, a phase that I refer to as the HONEST MAN phase. We have two important "closing" aspects in this phase; first the closing square and a half phase, later the 240 degree point (ahead of the Sun) which is the closing trine. The Believer is a teacher, one who brings messages to others, one who is or tries to be articulate and convincing.

The 225 degree point or opposition-plus-a-square-and-a-half brings us to a full appreciation of all that society has accomplished and helps us recognize what we can contribute as we stand on the shoulders of those who have gone before us. "I have seen the light, and it is good!" proclaims the Believer. And he/she insists on showing you the light. He seeks to convince and to demonstrate his/her truths. The Beleiver will be insistant and forceful.

At the closing trine point the Believers views, tactics and skills become quite polished. For better or worse in terms of the beliefs held, the Believer moves convincingly ahead. Charm, assuredness, capability all help him/her to win at any cost, for any reason. Right is might.

I'm running out of time. I have an appointment, but later tonight I will review the participants that have posted their data and we will use them to further illustrate some of these points. Dave.

einhverfr
31-01-2006, 10:00
My moon is in the analyst phase. This is all very interesting. I may have to take up this technique :-)

dadsnook2000
31-01-2006, 13:37
Now that I'm back I'll pick up on the Sun-Moon phase interpetations.

** Wizzle has a Moon that is 167 degrees ahead of the Sun, not a classical aspect. So, when there is no aspect, and this is often the case, we can use cycle phases to aid us. Wizzle has a Sun-Moon phase of ANALYST. I had noted that "The ANALYST PHASE person seeks methods to fit his/her needs, asks the profound question "why?" and eliminates ideas and practices that are wasteful." If we note that the Sun is in the 4th house of starts and endings, of traditional values and beliefs -- we can expect the wilful Sun to want to utilize these core values. With the Moon in the 10th house of recognition, goals and achievement we can expect the moon to reflect this. After all, if the Moon is approaching a full moon position, even if not there in fact, house-wise this is a "full" opposition. So we might say that Wizzle has complete a life's project of making adjustments and getting herself and her surroundings pretty much the way she would like them -- not yet perfect, but far more than adequate, and true to herself.

** Paradoxx is a "late" example of the SEEKER phase. The Moon has moved past the full opposition and is actually closing in on the marker point for the next phase -- only 10 degrees away. This makes it a little uncertain and is also indicative of real-life astrology. We might be right, we might be wrong, what to do? Actually, we go with the best shot, nail it down, and then see if we need to make an adjustment later as we move on. This isn't rocket science, its an art form. Given that Paradoxx is indeed approaching the Believer Phase -- which I call the Honest Man Phase -- lets assume a level of maturity and clarity and opt for the more positive meanings of those I gave earier; Illumination or instability, a crises in knowing or in doing seems to be an ever-repeating pattern of learning. Since the Moon is also the public and the past, we might want to refine the interpretation to say that Paradoxx has (or feels) obligations to live up to high expectations, or has set a personal set of challenges that requires striving for high achievements relating to what is believed.

EDITED AREA
** Crystelle, who just joined our data listing, is our FIRST example of the BELIEVER Phase. Sun at 23 Sag, Moon at 13 Leo yields a seperation of 110 degrees, putting the Moon 250 degrees ahead of the Sun, past the 225 degree cycle-phase point. Note the Sun in the 5th house area, the Moon in the 1st house area. Creativeness, one's own or in support of others, could be a key idea. As a teacher of some sort, Crystelle (EDITED to remove Paradoxx's name which was wrongly referred to here) would need to show the first house Moon, perhaps by being visible, being an emotional leader, an enthusiast for what is offered to the world. One on one contacts would be expected. Perhaps "teacher" should be modified to "counselor" or "guide" of some sort. We have to note the 5th house and 1st house linkage --children, school, artistic work, a critic? Something along those lines would fit.

** rcb30872 also has this Sun-Moon phase, the Sun being 101 degrees behind the Sun and 259 degrees ahead -- getting close to the next phase. Since Sun and Moon are positioned differently in this chart, we will have a different interpretation. Sun in the 8th house suggests one who has a high interest in shared property, the inner workings of other peoples minds. The Moon on the IC/4th house cusp points to a need to follow ones basic beliefs and personal values, all that was learned at/near home and/or in the early years. Traditional values for the Moon, death/taxes/inheritance (using the classic 8th house meanings) would point to an antique dealer, museum worker in antiquities, insurance adjuster, estate managers -- all symbolic of the combination of these two houses. Interesting END OF EDIT.

Again, in summary, all we are seeking to do here is to develop some starting concepts using the two most important factors in the chart. These can be reasonable and may often be close. They can also not be relevant, but they give us something to build upon. NOW WE NEED TO CONSIDER, FOR FUTURE REFERENCE, WHAT HAPPENS IF WE END UP WITH SEVERAL SPECIFICS THAT TOTALLY CLASH WITH EACH OTHER?

We don't sweat it. Half the time the inconsistency is real, the person of the chart has multiple aspects to his/her life. Most of the remaining times, it only requires some minor adjustments to bring it all together. And every once in awhile someone doesn't live their chart! Yes, they don't fit their chart.

When we run into these rarities we step back and ask some basic questions. We may find that they are a Lunar person, responding the each new moon planetary pattern as it fits into their natal chart. Sometimes we find a progressed chart or a solar return chart (which is a solar cycle based chart), which works. Thats the way astrology can work on occassion. I'd be interested in hearing other stories of astrology that doesn't work, as well as feedback on this thread about the astrology that does work. Dave

einhverfr
31-01-2006, 16:46
More info:

Sun is 23Aries in the 3rd. Moon is 7Lib in the 8th conjunct Pluto (within 2 degrees). This would make me an analyst with a communication and occult emphasis? Or am I missing something here?

dadsnook2000
01-02-2006, 11:33
Squares are recognized by everyone as being a major aspect. But, one square is not like anothe square. We have talked about the square before in this thread -- the opening square. The opening square, when the Moon has moved 90 degrees ahead of the Sun, was characterized by the urge to act, more energy applied than brains applied. The feeling that a struggle, and not always one that was going well, was happening is associated with this square.

When we reach a point where the Moon is 270 degrees in motion and distance ahead of the Sun, we have another square. This square also represents a challenge but the challenge is addressed from a position of competence and skills previously aquired. This square is where "the Man lives", its where he acts from. The opening square is threaded with futility, struggle, being unsure, acting because action seems to be needed. The closing square is where one has an approved podium to speak and act from, where one acts from his reputation, where one speaks for him/herself, for a company or institution, or for a cause. Confidence, projection, focus -- all of these things are brought into a one-sided struggle to convince, lead, make aware.

The only other two aspects before the Moon catches up with Sun and completes ints cycle as it starts another are the closing sextile and semi-sextile. The sextile is communication in review, teaching, testing, asking "do you remember?", reviewing. The semi-sextile, not considered of being important by many astrologers (including me), is best characterized as "sudden realization that this is your bus stop, the ride is about to end, its time to get off." In other words, the sextile is communicating those things important to you, the semi-sextile is when you listen to yourself and take some advice about the necessity of change.

Now, not everyone who has their Moon somewhere between 270 and 359 degrees ahead of the Sun will enjoy an actual "within-orb aspect." We can go back to our Sun-Moon Phase relationship. With the Moon at 270 degrees to 315 degrees ahead of the Sun, we have the CHANGER Phase. Here we can note a commitment being made to the future, to being inspiring so as to get others to move with you toward that vision. Once we find the Moon reaching the 315 degrees or being even closer to the Sun, we have the PROPHET Phase wherein there is an awareness of ones growth towards a new self.

** Huredriel is an example of the CHANGER Phase, the Moon being 53 degrees behind the Sun, 307 degrees ahead of the Sun. We have the Sun in the 10th, the Moon close to the 9th -- perhaps we should treat it as a combination of the 8th and 9th houses. The identity and will works its way by using personal magnetism and charm (8th house Moon) and an appeal based on being well informed, traveled, suave, poised (9th house Moon). So what does Huredriel do? -- perhaps that will be shared.

** Dadsnook (that's me) is an example of the PROPHET Phase. Sun in the 4th, Moon in the 3rd and approaching the 4th/IC. The Sun position suggests basic values and personal beliefs and tastes are highly important -- we have someone who insists on being a unique individual. The Moon in the 3rd/4th houses suggests a need to be heard (communication), to enjoy a facility of movement and mind (3rd house) and perhaps a need to follow through on inner feelings and developed personal values (4th house Moon). From my own warped perspective I see this as having to be creative, imaginative, busy, able to show and promote personal beliefs and interests.

A final word for this thread from me: We have covered the full cylce of Moon relative to the Sun, both in terms of aspects and phase meanings where aspects did not exist. It is now up to the list participants to join in and comment as they see fit so as to help us all better under the material given. Meanwhile, I have to go back and perhaps edit a prior posting as we had two participants who have the BELIEVER Phase in their charts and I think I only covered one. Dave.

Crystelle
02-02-2006, 02:07
** Crystelle, who just joined our data listing, is our FIRST example of the BELIEVER Phase. Sun at 23 Sag, Moon at 13 Leo yields a seperation of 110 degrees, putting the Moon 250 degrees ahead of the Sun, past the 225 degree cycle-phase point. Note the Sun in the 5th house area, the Moon in the 1st house area. Creativeness, one's own or in support of others, could be a key idea. As a teacher of some sort, Paradoxx would need to show the first house Moon, perhaps by being visible, being an emotional leader, an enthusiast for what is offered to the world. One on one contacts would be expected. Perhaps "teacher" should be modified to "counselor" or "guide" of some sort. We have to note the 5th house and 1st house linkage --children, school, artistic work, a critic? Something along those lines would fit.

Okay Dave, I'm going to take a swing: You described the BELIEVER as someone that comes with a message. I am often a guide to friends, a counselor to those that are lost, a teacher to those that are willing and hungry to learn. I find myself constantly digressing into areas of interest with people in coffee shops. I am an accomplished debator. I rarely lose, but that being said I rarely engage on topics which I have not properly researched. My positions are carefully chosen and details recorded in my memory to support my opinion's strength. I often intimate universal truths that I have come to understand through my less than picturesque life to all levels of understanding. I can talk to 3 yr olds and 43 yr olds. Many of the Tarot subscribers here have commented on my insight and intuition. This is not to say that I am not very often wrong but I am always told that even in being wrong I almost convince my discussion partner that I am right through the persuasiveness of my communication style. I have been writing at a collegiate level since I was in 6th grade. I attended John Hopkins University at the age of 12 for writing. I am also a rather skilled artisan, artist, and interior decorator.

Does that make sense with my description?
Love Crystelle

dadsnook2000
02-02-2006, 02:28
Your reply was very thoughtful and complete, Crystelle. Yes, the interpetation give from one factor-combination (Sun & Moon phase and house position) was a nice match to what you described.

Remember here, this method is the INITIAL VIEW of the chart. It is meant to be a starting point and a specific short statement upon which we will add other specific short statements. The process is one of building up several specific views of the chart before we start to synthesize/blend the primary chart elements. This allows us to do two things: 1) engage the client in a meaningful dialog, and 2) later pursue adding details and refinements to a true and solid understanding of the chart. The details might come from signs, minor aspects, dignitaries and detriments, rulerships and mutal receptions, asteroids and arabian parts, mid-point structures, whatever. But none of that should, IMHO, ever enter anyones mind until they know what they are talking about relative to the basic structure and truth of the chart and the person seeking their help.

So, yes, Crystelle, this feed back is appropriate and supports the inititial statement made. Your feedback is essential to this list because it supports everyone else's understanding and confidence in this simple, direct and specific way of looking at a chart -- without the dread of being wrong or off on a wild tangent. THE GOAL for every astrological student of any level is to develop his/her toolbox of highly useful, dependable, always workable, methods of examining a chart. If it doesn't work close to 100% then throw it out. There are so many tools and methods in astrology that you won't miss fifty of them. Dave. PS, Crystelle, I edited the post to remove Paradoxx's name in your reference area. Sorry about that. I don't (literally) think before I type or analyze a chart -- I just say what comes to mind at that moment, hence a few spelling/writing mistakes here and there.

huredriel
03-02-2006, 01:01
** Huredriel is an example of the CHANGER Phase, the Moon being 53 degrees behind the Sun, 307 degrees ahead of the Sun. We have the Sun in the 10th, the Moon close to the 9th -- perhaps we should treat it as a combination of the 8th and 9th houses. The identity and will works its way by using personal magnetism and charm (8th house Moon) and an appeal based on being well informed, traveled, suave, poised (9th house Moon). So what does Huredriel do? -- perhaps that will be shared.
Hmmm interesting ........ well I am a Legal PA for a Partner and several lawyers (translate that to dogsbody LOL) .... in a top 5 law firm .... wouldn't see myself as having personal magnetism or charm .... I'm pretty blunt and suffer foot in mouth disease ...... I do like to try and be well-informed (try being the operative word)!

Suave .... erm no ....... poised ..... I try to be but it never quite comes off (or feels that way).

Travelled ...... most of my life no ...... but between 1995 and 2004 (either holidays or karate camps) I did travel quite a bit ....... Japan, Australia, Sri Lanka, Canada, Greek Islands (4), Austria, Germany, UK, Dominican Republic ... but unfortunately never got to see much of the countries I was training in.

paradoxx
03-02-2006, 07:51
Since the Moon is also the public and the past, we might want to refine the interpretation to say that Paradoxx has (or feels) obligations to live up to high expectations, or has set a personal set of challenges that requires striving for high achievements relating to what is believed

quite on the mark, my self-governance in regards to quality has also ruffled some feathers among the people i work and live with. This also impacts my work ethic and i put in as much as i can while following the criteria of the rules provided.

your statement of benig a seeker is quite intriguiing, and as of recently (like the last week) my psychic intuition has been amplified to the point where I am more beliver in my own ability than ever before. Inforamtion that I just look at ona surface level all of the sudden starts popping up elsewhere and the base of informaiton taht I have located offers me the ability to argue my points with ease.

Except half the time i don't know what it is i am seeking until i find it right in front of me, it can be very disorienting at times.

Crystelle
03-02-2006, 07:54
Your reply was very thoughtful and complete, Crystelle. Yes, the interpetation give from one factor-combination (Sun & Moon phase and house position) was a nice match to what you described.


This is an a great learning tool! Thank you Dave!

WhiteRaven
03-02-2006, 08:17
Dadsnook....would this mean that I am a Prophet Phase because my moon is 12 degrees behind the sun? Am I following this correctly?

dadsnook2000
03-02-2006, 11:28
Yes, your Sun-Moon phase is the "prophet." Now, for you, what does that mean? By now you should know the drill.

First, you understand what the Prohphet Phase means -- growth towards a new self. You have to consider this in its broader meaning. Growing towards a new you means leaving behind the old you, perhaps giving up a life style or an obsession, walking away from life situations that you had built up over time, or you may have had a vision or inspiration of something much different than what you have now. This is what the Prohphet Phase can include.

Second, you have to consider the Sun's house position, in this case the 9th. You are outward focused, appreciative of study and learning, aware of the benefits of reaching out to others for resources that can be useful.

Third, you have to consider the Moon's house position, the 8th -- perhaps approaching the 9th. A strong need to share, to feel part of something outside of yourself, a need to understand the inner workings of others. Or, if the 9th house has any meaning there may be some kind of need to reach way out beyond current capabilities and "known" things or practices. So, how would we take this out of the "astro-babble" arena, what might we expect?

You are on a path to discovery, self-discovery. You are becoming a detective of sorts, one who seeks to understand your own and other's inner workings and power to manage themselves. Are you helping others to change as you seek to change? What secrets do you keep or seek? An interesting pattern. You might want to apply this approach to your own words and seek to better understand the mechanics of this astrological methodology. Dave

WhiteRaven
03-02-2006, 12:19
Thank you Dave.....this is the first time that an Astrologist hits me on the button so to speak. In "Tarot-babble" we would say this entire summary is "spot on".

Growing towards a new you means leaving behind the old you, perhaps giving up a life style or an obsession, walking away from life situations that you had built up over time, or you may have had a vision or inspiration of something much different than what you have now. This is what the Prohphet Phase can include.

This is very true and I have been working towards the "new" me intensively for the last two years.....and yes, the build up commenced in childhood and just snowballed from there.


Second, you have to consider the Sun's house position, in this case the 9th. You are outward focused, appreciative of study and learning, aware of the benefits of reaching out to others for resources that can be useful.

This also is true. I have my nose in a book....or somewhere online studying all kinds of things....I do ask when I need to and use the resources that are available to continue my studies.


Third, you have to consider the Moon's house position, the 8th -- perhaps approaching the 9th. A strong need to share, to feel part of something outside of yourself, a need to understand the inner workings of others. Or, if the 9th house has any meaning there may be some kind of need to reach way out beyond current capabilities and "known" things or practices. So, how would we take this out of the "astro-babble" arena, what might we expect?

This also makes sense and if I'm correct in regards to progressive charts...I would fall into a believer stage....(I know we're not in progressive....but it's interesting how both blend in this particular area you speak of at this point in my life.)


You are on a path to discovery, self-discovery. You are becoming a detective of sorts, one who seeks to understand your own and other's inner workings and power to manage themselves. Are you helping others to change as you seek to change?

I have been told by many that as I seek to heal and understand myself and others, I do help others change as well.


What secrets do you keep or seek?

Ah...secrets....hmmm....I share with those that wish to heal....yes....I share with those that wish to seek with me those mysteries yet to unravel....I'm not quite sure what I'm searching for....but I know it's out there...whatever it may be.


An interesting pattern.

Yes...I would agree with you here too...interesting and complexed.


Again, thank you Dave. This amazes me because as I have said above, this is the first time an Astrologist pins me so well....and I have consulted a few in my life so far.

dadsnook2000
03-02-2006, 13:10
And its only the first step in looking at the chart, White Raven! What the list has to keep in mind is that this is just the beginning. There are other steps similar to these that can just as easily reveal more -- simple steps that offer specific insights. Build up a few simple, specific insights and you can forget having to "do the entire chart" as you'll already know the person whithout even having broken a sweat.

I haven't yet used a sign, I haven't yet used an aspect. Can it get any more simple than this. Fun, isn't it? Dave

rainwolf
03-02-2006, 13:27
My moon and sun are 60 degrees apart, almost exactly i believe. The moon is ahead in aquarius to be specific, to my sun in sag. Would this still count as the 'worker' phase? Very interesting thread :)

dadsnook2000
03-02-2006, 13:46
Your Moon is in the Worker Phase from the Sun, Rainwolf. With your Sun in the 6th house and Moon in the 8th, what key words or phrases would you use? Remember to slant your thoughts so as to stay within the "Worker Phase theme" of struggling to be free of the past, to become a new person. You have the opportunity to lead others into having the confidence to do this themselves.

When you post your thoughts we will go thru them together as need be and see how it all works out. Dave

squeakmo9
04-02-2006, 08:20
In this thread I want to do two things:
** I want to offer some views about the Sun and Moon in a relationship sense, how they work together.
** I also want to use some of the chart data posted previously by the participants to illustrate some of these themes -- hopefully with that person providing feedback about what is said.
SUN CONUNCT MOON and MOON IN THE 1st "PERFORMER" PHASE


I believe this sun/moon aspect is in my chart. If I'm correct...I think I have taken some of the more negative expressions of this, without really knowing it. For expample, I am perpetually late, since I was a kid, getting to school. So when I would walk in, all eyes would be on me, and I would, unintentionally, disrupt the class with my entrance. I always felt a love/hate relationship with wanting attention. Going from wanting it, to not wanting it, a Greta Garbo thing.."I wont to be alone"...yeah right. Honestly, I have felt many times like I was being thrown onto a stage and then taking a sink or swim attitude. Perhaps I should take a better attitude to it, work with it more.
Thank you for sharing this wonderful information Dave, it is taking me time to understand it all but am enjoying it!
Squeakmo9

huredriel
05-02-2006, 03:24
Dave,

Just a thought, you mentioned *travelled* ..... wondering if this perhaps could also mean living at various addresses during one's childhood?

x Huredriel

dadsnook2000
05-02-2006, 08:04
Yes. A lot of being in different places is indicated. Dave

huredriel
05-02-2006, 08:57
Well in that case *travelled* is totally spot on ........ as we moved quite a lot throughout my childhood ....... including from one end of the country to another. Then I moved away again in my latter teens and have had various addresses. The longest I've ever lived in one place is the house I actually have now ...... coming up 10 years this year :)

dadsnook2000
05-02-2006, 10:20
I'm glad that is cleaned up. You had me wondering as I had just noticed earlier today that your tag line says, "wandering cat slave." Dave

PS I have lived in 23 different houses since I was born but have lived in my present location for over 40 years --- of course I've bought and sold several homes in the meantime, but never got around to actually moving our of this one.

rcb30872
08-02-2006, 01:24
** rcb30872 also has this Sun-Moon phase, the Sun being 101 degrees behind the Sun and 259 degrees ahead -- getting close to the next phase. Since Sun and Moon are positioned differently in this chart, we will have a different interpretation. Sun in the 8th house suggests one who has a high interest in shared property, the inner workings of other peoples minds. The Moon on the IC/4th house cusp points to a need to follow ones basic beliefs and personal values, all that was learned at/near home and/or in the early years. Traditional values for the Moon, death/taxes/inheritance (using the classic 8th house meanings) would point to an antique dealer, museum worker in antiquities, insurance adjuster, estate managers -- all symbolic of the combination of these two houses. Interesting. Dave
Well, I have never considered any of those occupations, but you never know :laugh:

I would have to agree with that, I am always wanting to get inside someone else's head to try and figure out what they are thinking, and trying to come up with different explanations for the way people act in a certain way. I have tried it on my own mother! I keep asking and asking questions about her childhood, her marriage, just about anything which she is willing to talk about. I like to delve deep, there is no mistake there!

But, like you said, I do tend to go by my own belief systems, and very reluctant to change it for anyone or anything. Even though my thoughts towards my parents, may be not all that pleasant, but I will say one thing that they have taught me and my brothers the right sort of values, how to be polite, to respect other people's property, how to be honest and all those kind of things.

Thanks Dave :love: :*

Bec

wizzle
08-02-2006, 04:14
I thought I'd throw in a few random metaphors for the phases of the moon/sun from alchemy, mythology and miscellaneous sources.

New Moon (Sun conjunct Moon- 0 degrees separation)

The royal marriage
The secret goddess
Isis veiled

At this point the Moon is dominated by the Sun and her power works in hidden ways.

Full Moon (Sun opposite Moon- 180 degrees separtation)

The great mother
Isis unveiled

The Moon is farthest from the Sun and is most independent in power. The best time for using the cleansing power of the Moon.

Waxing Moon - from conjunction to full or from 0 to 180 degrees

The Moon as virgin
A time for tilling and planting

Waning Moon - from opposition/full to conjunction or from 180 degrees to 360 degrees

The Moon as crone
A time for maintenance and reaping

These metaphors are a lot less precise than Dads' nicely divided areas, but I think they help with a gut-level understanding of the Sun/Moon relationship. Those of you who do rituals based on Moon phases might want to share additional associations. Or you might want to check for Sun/Moon relationships shown in tarot cards and see how the card and its image fits into the phase concept.

prudence
08-02-2006, 05:27
Following the Analyst Phase, the Sun will find the Moon at its full moon position or past that -- anywhere from 180 degrees to 225 degrees is what is called the SEEKER phase. By now the Moon has reached its full point and still lights up the whole night untill dawn comes. We can explore the night just as easily as the day. In this phase, we have the 180 degree aspect, the opposition, and the closing 210 degree closing inconjunct aspect. What does the Seeker phase claim to offer? Illumination or instability, a crises in either knowing or in doing. Wizzle had used the word "lunacy" -- a condition that we associate with the full moon. This was thought of, not so long ago, as the time for werewolves and those in asylumns to cry out in dispair and rage. While not seen as such by most people today, we still biologically react to this stage of the Moon through increased police arrests and crime, difficulty with surgery due to blood flow and low clotting levels, people acting stranger than normal as measured by many social institutions.

The opposition suggests male-versus-female views, arguments, heated passions, easily triggered habit patterns. Normally in astrology we see this 180 degree aspect as representing partnerships or enemies, projection or acceptance, offerings or denials. It is a very polarizing aspect.

.

on second thought, I am just going to try to follow along with this discussion. It has been interesting so far. Thanks.

prudence
08-02-2006, 09:35
delete

thanks

isthmus nekoi
09-02-2006, 11:32
An astro link on lunar phases:
http://starcats.com/lunar.html

I think of the sun and moon as the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems respectively and both as needs. The sun shows the needs for vitality, stimulation, at an extreme, fight or flight. The moon shows the needs for security, relaxation, "lie down and be fed".

I consider problems w/the moon more severe than problems w/the sun b/c as it has been pointed out, the moon is very primal and instinctual.

I've got a balsamic moon in my chart, 11th, 12th house, so that's a PROPHET phase in this thread. Gauging by other people's behaviours, it is very easy for me to let important things go, even things like important relationships or values etc if I see fit. I also don't accumulate material things like most people. If I could describe this phase in conjunction with the houses implicated, it is that most people seem to view their development as building, as cumulative, whereas I see my "growth" in more destructive terms - you strip away more and more of yourself, more of what is unnecessary. Other people tend to be hard on the outside, but peel away their defenses and they become vulnerable, more soft. I feel like the opposite - the deeper in you go, the harder it gets and the more it is required of me to strip away another layer.

Fire Cat
02-04-2007, 10:23
I hope I am not too late. I am reading carefully through these planet series threads from the beginning.

Perhaps a little background: I am getting pretty heavily into the Minchiate tarot with its wonderful zodiac cards. There are emerging patterns the more I learn about astrology in the layout of that deck. The natural progression is for me to study astrology.

Anywho --Sun-Moon semi-sextile at 30 degrees in the 1st & 2nds Houses resp.

~Reece

Armspt
02-04-2007, 23:39
HI. I've been reading this thread and haven't found any information for my sun and moon positions, wich are opposite. Maybe I haven't red it with attention. Anyway, if anyone can help me here...

Sun - 1st house - 1 Libra 20'24"
Moon - 5th house - 27 Pisces 42'34"

Thank you.

dadsnook2000
03-04-2007, 01:59
In this same thread, the 7th posting talks about Sun-Moon phase relationships where the Moon reaches the "Analyst" phase and the "Seeker" phase. This applies to you as you were born at a time when the Moon was leaving one phase and was about to enter the next phase. Interpret the meanings given as if you were finalizing the lessons of the analyst phase so that you could better address the lessons of the seeker phase. Forget about the sign meanings for now. Understand the primary dynamics of these two important bodies first. Then consider how they work in the houses. The signs are a distant effect at best. I don't use them in professional level work. Dave

Fire Cat
03-04-2007, 07:13
What about the 1st & 2nd Houses --and what does the Analyst have to do with the Performer?

Fire Cat
03-04-2007, 08:05
Never mind --I see you were answering the person's question after me.

dadsnook2000
03-04-2007, 08:13
How did you find the information about the Performer Phase fitting your Sun and Moon? Dave

Fire Cat
03-04-2007, 10:38
Yes. I have a definite Performer personality. As a child I was in several major stage productions in my local little theater & went on to get a masters in organ performance. I was trying to figure in the significance of the 1st & 2nd houses in terms of the Sun-Moon significance. I have made a pretty good living out of my performing type personality. I "feel" the part & it is a part of my personality that effects (overrides) my entire personality, from the clothes I wear to the car I drive to my home. The negative aspect is my tendency to "play the part" for others even if this means ultimately my own unhappiness (probably a too strong a term, as I am the happiest miserable person one will ever meet.)

I am playing around with the Secondary Progression Chart you mention here, and I am approaching an Sun-sesquiquadrate-Moon position.

So, as I am in the tail-end of an "activist" phase; where I have been reassessing my place in the world (as a teacher like my father); I try to figure whether or not to change career paths completely, & to go into the medical field instead of teaching.

This method points out to me that it should be in the "analyst" stage that I look into career options, which according to my secondary progression will be a few weeks before my 38th birthday and a few weeks following.

July 17, 1969 5:30 a.m.