Conflicting dates for Scorpio vs. Sag.

Hello,

I have run across conflicting dates for Scorpio vs. Sagittarius.

I've run across sources stating Sag. starts Nov.22, and a few stating the date as Nov. 23 as the start of Sag.

Which is correct???????

There's a huge difference between a Scorpio and a Sagittarius. If you are born on the 22nd of November would you have traits of both (if you are just looking at the sun sign and nothing else, that is)?

Whitestar

A simple answer

Your question has a simple answer. Our year is 365 and 1/4 days long. Every four years we have a leap-year to get the calendar back in sync. So, on or around the 21st, 22nd, or 23rd of a month we see the Sun changing signs. It varies from year to year as to which of these dates is the "correct" date. Dave.

Thank you for your reply!!!

Yes.

You will have to look it up for anyone born round those dates.
See when the change was on the year they were born.

This is the same for anyone born on the cusp of one sign and another.
They have to look up their birth year and find out which they are.

Sometimes people are quite surprised.
They have thought all their lives they were one sign, but find out they are really another.

And some people just refuse to believe thay are something else.

The zoodiac signs are defined as 30 degree arcs starting from the point of the vernal equinox. Because the year is not exactly 365 days long (it is *approx* 365.25 days long) the day when the sun ingresses to any given sign will depend on the year.

And . . .

And . . . to be both technical and picky, picky, picky, we have to remember that the apparent speed of the Sun's passage over any local MC point each day varies depending upon the time of the year. A 29 minute variance can occur from a date at one time of the year to a date at another time of the year, specifically between early February and late October. This is due to something called the Equation of Time. If you look on almost any globe you will see a small figure "8" diagram, typically located somewhere in the Pacific Ocean where it won't block out any land features. The changes in distance from the Sun, small changes in orbital speed, wobble about the axis by the earth, and rotational drag all contribute to these small variations.

If a combination of the current year within the leap year cycle, time of the year and effect by the Equation of Time all combine right you can move the Sun's ingress into any one Sign by many minutes of a day -- enough to move up before midnight of a calendar day or after midnight and into the next calendar day. Oh, too much. Do we really care about the calendar that much? Its more accurate to run a chart or use a computer program -- or even an ephemeris or almanac. Dave.

I have a further question.

The specific year I'm pondering is 1967...Nov. 22 1967.

I located an astrology book with tables in it, says it's Sag.

A friend also looked it up and her source says SCORP!!!!

HELP!!!

A little thought is needed here !

You live in Italy, you have an ephemeris calculated for Noon-GMT positions, you print calendars.

You live in California, you have an also have an ephemeris, its calculated for Midnight-GMT position, and you also print calendars.

So two calendars hit the market. A lady in Maine buys one. She loses it and buys another, different calendar. She finds the first one. One says the Sun will move into a sign on a given date. The other says the Sun will move into that next sign on the following date. Which is right? Both of them! Which one will you use? Who cares. Unless you have a need or accuracy or have a birthday on one of those two days, your life won't change much on such a trivial point. If you need the accuracy you'll get ahold of some software or a local almanac with a good reputation and go with what it tells you.

There are many good reasons why two sources can offer contradictory information. Those reasons typically involve issues of calculation accuracy, the type of calculation system used (tables, computers, ephemerides, etc.), the source of basic data (there are several institutions that calculate astronomical data including the US Naval Observatory, the Jet Propulsion Lab, Greenwich Observatory, a swiss firm whose name escapes me, and several more). Add to that all of the various astronomical and astrological software packages that use various sources and have their own calculation routines, and you have more variables than Carter has little liver pills. Add to that all of the confusing time zones and local exceptions -- well, there are a number of paths to in-accuracy.

If you can easily assimilate these broad ideas, then you should not be bothered by two sources of generalized data. Dave.

Do your self a favor.

Go to a site like Astrodienst.com and have it calculate your chart for the date, time, and place in question

dadsnook2000 said:

If you can easily assimilate these broad ideas, then you should not be bothered by two sources of generalized data. Dave.

Click to expand...

As I don't believe myself to be a complete wash in the intelligence department, I CAN assimilate these broad ideas.

I can't help but feel a bit taken aback by this reply.

I have a friend with the birthdate in question, but this person doesn't know TIME of birth. I Do think it is bothersome to have conflicting data about the correct sun sign for this date!!! I know without birth time a chart can never be done, but it would at least be nice to be able to discern a correct sun sign.

I guess with out a birth time this person is up the creek without a paddle then about knowing which sun sign she was born under, since charts and tables are so inaccurate.