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dadsnook2000
08-02-2006, 08:46
The SUN and MERCURY are a fitting focus to start the Planet Series" Sun & Planets off with. We all hear about the various planets being discussed, yet those that are most discussed seem to be Saturn, Venus and Mars with the other planets playing second fiddle. When pressed, many early-studies students of astrology can give you some idea of Neptune or Pluto, but ask about Mercury and the conversation often slows to a crawl.

I submit that Mercury is not well understood. Perhaps we can learn from each other here about Mercury through our discussions, reading and considerations -- all of which are "Mercury words." In mythology, Mercury was the messenger of the Gods and was supposed to know much. Yet, a messenger only knows what he is told to pass on, he often doesn't know the reasons behind the message. This gives us an important clue about Mercury. Mercury was also a traveller of great speed and was exposed to many different people, cultures, and forms of communication. These give us more clues about Mercury. Finally, for this part of my discussion, lets look at the planetary glyph assigned by the ancients to Mercury -- it has all three elements: the circle, cresent and cross representing the spirit, sould and earthly life. This suggests that Mercury is associated with all three elements.

In astronomical terms, Mercury is close to the Sun and does not wander more than 28 degrees or so from the Sun as it quickly circles that central point of our solar system. Of course, Mercury doesn't proceed thru the zodiac in a straight line -- in a given year Mercury will turn retrograde three times and then end up more or less covering the same span of zodiac as the Sun in a given year. So, in effect, Mercury does act like a messenger, stopping here, pausing or moving back over ground already covered, then moving forward again -- only to stop, pause, retread his steps, then rush off to another point of interest. So, we can say (as a broad statement) that Mercury doesn't cover more than three or four signs without pausing to re-cover part of its passage -- then it moves forward again.

Mercury cannot assimilate, in terms of its orbital behavior, more than four signs before it has to pause and reconsider. The "signs", of course, represent the shared, collective experience of us all. In this sense, signs are quite unlike houses which are personal experiences. So, we can summarize this point by saying, "Mercury gathers worldly, shared information (external data and knowledge) and then pauses to review-reconsider-revisit portions of this gathering-travel-experience."

Given that last statement in quotes, and assuming that there are no counter views, this suggests that Mercury has an "inner" function that might noy yet have been discussed. What is this internal function? Some astrological books don't really talk about this, some do.

Internally, Mercury takes its information and categorizes it, plunking it into little pigeon-holes for later retrieval. Mercury has to tag this information and establish ways to remember it thru associative processes. Its these linking functions that shape the way Mercury, our minds, work. Whereas the Moon gives us automatic, habitual responses that fuel, emotionally, the needs and initial interactions we have with others -- we need to think about how Mercury fits into this process.

Mercury sees. Mercury hears. Mercury takes information and perception into our minds, into our storage system, into the network of our associative processes. How we perceive what we see, how we understand what we hear, how we choose to link and associate one piece of information with another piece of information determines our overall thought, thinking, memory processes. And these inner, fresh experiences feed into and retrieve the older memories of feelings and memories, and together seem to shape the way we TRIGGER emotional feelings.

That is a profound concept. It is not an original concept, I believe that others have expressed it many times and in better ways. But, this is very important to remember about Mercury. Mercury is a partner with the Moon in the way we gather and store and recall and reuse our experiences and our knowledge. Does Mercury drive the Moon, does the Moon drive Mercury, are they really one or are they a duality or seperate by somewhat interactive forces that both impinge upon a portion of what each of us is?

If Moon and Mercury play some form of role together as well as seperately, then how does Mercury interact with the Sun?

The Sun "integrates." Jeff Mayo of the Faculty of Astrological Sudies in London said this over and over again. The Sun "integrates." The Sun draws out the energies symbolized by the planets, the Sun infuses and focuses those functions. The Sun doesn't have those particular functions but it can energize them and bring them out in us. So for Mercury, how does the Sun work? I'll try to address this question in different ways in following threads.

We have to remember that Mercury doesn't reach a point of opposition or of trine or of square to the Sun like other planets might. Mercury has a special relationship that we have to take time to examine. Dave.

huredriel
08-02-2006, 08:52
If Moon and Mercury play some form of role together as well as seperately, then how does Mercury interact with the Sun?
So if my mind is working correctly at this time of night ........ could we say that the Moon's knowledge is instinctual or empathic, internal ....... whereas Mercury would be more logical, mental? And connecting/interacting Mercury with the Sun would be to demonstrate this logical knowledge in an external fashion?

dadsnook2000
08-02-2006, 09:51
The answer may be "no." Mercury perceives (this is different from seeing in that a crowd of people will all see the same thing but each of them will perceive it differently. Mercury catagorizes what it perceives and is links these bits of knowledge associatvely based on how the mind has set up its memory system and how it uses it through practice and functioning over time. The patterns formed by recalling and using some groups of memories, thoughts or concepts more than other -- as well as in different combinations -- alters the associative processes over time. Usually, the use of the mind makes the associative processes more complex.

Wire in the emotional, habitual, long-term and subsconsious memories into this current and short-term thinking-deciding-perceiving-categorizing conscious mind, and where is the boundary line? Where is the logic? Where are the habits? There is no fixed pattern, I believe. It depends upon how we choose to function. Do we decide to be dispassionate and logical? Do we decide to live our lives in an intuitive fashion? Do we stay mired in a tribal or childish frame of mind and just react intensly? This is what the astrologer has to be aware of. Mercury is not automatically "logical." Mercury can be all screwed up and illogical, at the mercy of "feelings." Mercury can have created deep complexes, obsessive behavior that is triggered through the associative processes that were built up -- or allowed to be built up but never changed and/or modified by maturity and thoughtful comptemplation.

Hopefully, I can take us through the processes enough so that by these types of questons and discussions we can all clarify how and what Mercury can be for each of us, individually. For, if nothing else, Mercury is very much an "individual" function. Dave.

WhiteRaven
08-02-2006, 11:01
Just a quick observation that I find quite interesting.

I have looked through the birth data of those that posted and I find it quite interesting that Mercury is either in the same Sun sign....or the sign just after. IE....Sun in Gemini, Mercury in Cancer or Sun in Taurus and Mercury in Taurus. Mercury is quite close to the Sun in one's birth chart. I'm also trying to figure out the significance of a retro Mercury in one's birth chart and how that would affect one's "storage" abilities and one's stagnant type communicaton.....wondering if one born with Mercury retro would have a difficult time getting thoughts across to others....or accessing the storage points in the memory....(yes, I have Mercury and Sun in same sign and Mercury is retro...), but there are others that have Mercury (R) as well.

paradoxx
08-02-2006, 15:49
whiteraven:

Fear not, mercury retrograde is in fact quite common among many a successful people of all walks of life (JRR Toliken comes to mind as a notable and relevent mention). I too have mercury retrograde, with being conjunct across two signs-Gemini and Cancer. I have noticed that my biorythems in regards to mercury, my communication life, and all mercury like aspects of my life, my outward existance as i am a mercury ruled rising virgo, just seem to be in a different cycle as others around me, doubly so with double the mercury rulership. I may feel insociable for while when every one else is partying about, and then I will feel like the life of the party when the energy has long dissapated. AS a retrograde natal, you may feel the natural drive others lack duirng a retrograde and feel dissapated when mercury is benifical to others. A quick look through the forum board and an internet search with a bit of effort can answer any other questions you might have, in the end though you will have to decide for yourself what your planetary positions mean to you, and how retrogrades fit in your life.

I personally believe that mercury retrograde matters in an interpretation of a chart, and with the retrograde coming in march, now is the take note of all things 'mercury'.

rcb30872
08-02-2006, 20:34
Whiteraven, or anyone that is interested in this for that matter

You have mentioned that there seems to be a pattern where the Sun sign and the Mercury sign is either the same, or that the Mercury sign is the one just after. Well, although mine is quite close, it is not right after, it is right BEFORE, that is, Sun in Virgo, Mercury in Leo

:love:

Bec

WhiteRaven
08-02-2006, 23:21
whiteraven:

Fear not, mercury retrograde is in fact quite common among many a successful people of all walks of life (JRR Toliken comes to mind as a notable and relevent mention). I too have mercury retrograde, with being conjunct across two signs-Gemini and Cancer. I have noticed that my biorythems in regards to mercury, my communication life, and all mercury like aspects of my life, my outward existance as i am a mercury ruled rising virgo, just seem to be in a different cycle as others around me, doubly so with double the mercury rulership. I may feel insociable for while when every one else is partying about, and then I will feel like the life of the party when the energy has long dissapated. AS a retrograde natal, you may feel the natural drive others lack duirng a retrograde and feel dissapated when mercury is benifical to others. A quick look through the forum board and an internet search with a bit of effort can answer any other questions you might have, in the end though you will have to decide for yourself what your planetary positions mean to you, and how retrogrades fit in your life.

I personally believe that mercury retrograde matters in an interpretation of a chart, and with the retrograde coming in march, now is the take note of all things 'mercury'.

Thank you Paradoxx....I haven't really taken notice to the difference when Mercury is Retro...I will pay more attention to this upcoming retro in March though. The only Major Aspect I have with Mercury is Moon Conjunction Mercury 5°33 and Mercury Trine Uranus 4°59. What that means is way over my head at this point. (This is according to data from Astro.com)

I normally am anti-social....as I said above...I will see what kind of difference and whether I feel more socialable when Mercury goes retro.
Thanks again!

dadsnook2000
08-02-2006, 23:29
Because Mercury has a closer orbit to the Sun than any other planet, it will always stay near the Sun from our point-of-view here on Earth. It generally doesn't appear to ever by more than 28 degrees from the Sun -- so, we will always view it as being in the same sign as the Sun or in the immediate signs before or after the Sun. That is just basic math. There is nothing amazing or meaningful in this --- it just is.

Part of the time in Mercury's orbit the planet cannot be seen because it is too close to the Sun and its glaring light. If we take 10 degrees as a value (given that Mercury is said to be "combust" if within 8 to 11 degrees of the Sun or less) where Mercury appears to be over-powered by the Sun's brightness, than a simple check of the ephemeris will show that Mercury spends about 247 days further from the Sun than 20 degrees, and the balance of the year being closer to the Sun than 10 degrees -- a 2 to 1 split. Of course its time further away from the Sun is split into some six periods as it is either behind or ahead of the Sun relative to its three retrograde periods each year.

Earlier I had mentioned something about Mercury retracing its steps as it follows the Sun, more or less, around the Zodiac each year. Over a short period of time, every three years or so, Mercury has the opportunity of backing up and re-covering each of the zodiac signs. This seems to symbolically suggest that Mercury "reconsiders" its experiences over time, and it gives us another clue about the Mercury function in each of us.

Mercury perceives, it seeks to understand, it categorizes, it stores experiences in short term memory and associates what it perceives and understands with other experiences (short term and long term memories) -- and it learns, considers and re-evaluates/re-categorizes over a period of time. In doing all of this it creates complex associative patterns that assist it in filing and retrieving and using all of the information it takes in and retains.

So, knowing (or thinking that we know) how Mercury functions within us, it is time to start considering how we individually, at this point in our lives and in the basic natal chart, use our head. We will pursue this in following postings. Meanwhile, if there are thoughts or questions about what we have covered so far, then ask them. Dave.

WhiteRaven
08-02-2006, 23:46
Mercury perceives, it seeks to understand, it categorizes, it stores experiences in short term memory and associates what it perceives and understands with other experiences (short term and long term memories) -- and it learns, considers and re-evaluates/re-categorizes over a period of time. In doing all of this it creates complex associative patterns that assist it in filing and retrieving and using all of the information it takes in and retains.


This is interesting too! It coincides with what you stated about the Prophet Phase. Both Mercury and the Moon reside in the same house for me.

This series is quite informative and I'm enjoying this quite a bit.

dadsnook2000
09-02-2006, 00:22
Given Mercury's unique situation relative to the Sun, it occured to me that we might want to attempt one more thing to help us understand Mercury. This planet changes apparent motion (direct 2/3s of the time, retrograde 1/3 of the time) and distance from the Sun in degrees very rapidly. Let each of then do a little simple homework. I'll explain in a moment.

Mercury can exhibit the following characteristics:
1) Its motion is direct
2) Its motion is retrograde
3) It is close to the Sun -- within 10 degrees
4) It is further from the Sun -- more than 10 degrees
5) It is moving very fast in apparent motion -- more than 1.5 degrees per day
6) It is moving normally -- between 1/2 degree and 1 1/2 degrees per day
7) It is moving slow in appraent motion -- less than 1/2 degree a day
8) Its behind the Sun in zodiac position
9) Its ahead of the Sun in zodiac position

Why not make a note of which of the above fits your natal Mercury. I don't know if we'll use all of these factors or not, but we may to a greater or lesser degree. Dave

WhiteRaven
09-02-2006, 01:26
Mercury perceives, it seeks to understand, it categorizes, it stores experiences in short term memory and associates what it perceives and understands with other experiences (short term and long term memories) -- and it learns, considers and re-evaluates/re-categorizes over a period of time. In doing all of this it creates complex associative patterns that assist it in filing and retrieving and using all of the information it takes in and retains.


In the above statement you speak about short term and long term memories. Would this planet and it's positioning and direction be any indicative of ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder)? I'm thinking within the "speed" that Mercury is in at birth....and the distance from the Sun....(I'm referring to a chart where there has been a diagnosis of ADHD.).....Although, the motion is in the "norm" speed as per what you've indicated. The Sun is ahead and there is more than 10 degrees between them. But then, logically.....because ADD indicates that the mind works quite rapidly and that the person is three steps ahead of themselves so to speak and can not slow the mind enough to keep the long term memory and often short term memory....you would think that the speed within their birth chart would be rapid......no? or perhaps this isn't relevant at all....I just found it interesting that this planet works with the long term and short term memory and how we access this information and go over it....it brought this disorder to mind.

dadsnook2000
09-02-2006, 13:47
In my last posting I raised the issues of what might be associated with Mercury's relative position to the Sun and Mercury's speed direct/retrograde.
Along this line of thought I constructed a rough chart with Mercury's position behind-near-ahead of the Sun along the top of the chart, and Mercury's speed direct/retrograde along the left side of the chart.

.............................................POSIT ION..............................................
Degrees............Behind the Sun.....Combust..................Ahead of the Sun....
per/day........20+...........15.....10......0......10. ......16.........22............28....
motion
...........15+..Cesar K. Hepburn Placido Marlon Yassar
..................Chavez.......Pope J. Paul...Domingo..Brandon..Arafat
....
..................Libarace........................ .Oprah....Johnny.....Billy
.................................................. ....Winfrey..Carson.....Grahm
....
.................................................. .....Martha.......Scott......Ted
..........................Condoliza............... ..Stwewart...Peterson..Turner
............1.0+........Rice
...................Bill Gates................................John Lennon...................
...................louis Armstrong......................................... G.W.Bush......
.....
............0.5................................... ......................Martin l. King
................................................He nry
...................Dali Lamna...............Kissinger
.............0.0
...................Clint Eastwood....Sandra Day.....................Bruce
...............................Michael..O'Connor.. ......................Springstein
.............-.5..............Jackson........................Jul ia
.................................................. ................Child
..............1.0.........................Ron Howard
...........................................Tim McVeigh................Madonna
...............1.5..............

We will explore this graph and see what makes sense tomorrow. Its late and I'm tired. Dave

rcb30872
09-02-2006, 21:28
The only question that I can answer, as the others are either not applicable or I just don't understand.

My Sun is in Virgo, and my Mercury is in Leo

So if that is the case then my Mercury is ahead of my Sun

:love:

Bec

dadsnook2000
09-02-2006, 22:44
First, for Bec -- No, your Mercury in Leo is BEHIND the Virgo Sun in terms of zodiac order. If you were thinking about which would rise first over your Ascendant degree, then Mercury would rise first.

The chart I posted places well-known people in terms of Mercury's position relative to the Sun, ahead or behind by various degree values --- this is against a scale along the top (horizontal) axis of the chart. The speed that Mercury was moving at the time of their birth is shown on the side (vertical) axis of the chart. Mercury's apparent speed as seen from the Earth, ranges from about 2 degrees per day downward, and may appear to reach much the same speed when in retrograde motion.

The problem with using well-known people is that they often live out the full potential of their charts, making them very good examples. Therefore, they are not good examples for many others of the non-rich and non-famous and non-productive, etc. That is where we come into this picture and why I asked the list to start thinking about their Mercury -- its relative distance from the Sun ahead or behind, and its apparent speed of motion. WE CAN THEN PLACE OURSELVES INTO THIS CHART AND SEE IF WE SHARE ANY CHARACTERISTICS WITH THE PEOPLE ALREADY ON THE CHART. This is one way to start to really learn how a planet may express itself through us.

Remember, we are not just studying Mercury here, I haven't highjacked Mercury itself. We are studying Sun and Mercury as a special pair of planets due to Mercury being/remaining so close to the Sun. HOW DO WE DIFFERENTIATE MERCURY FROM THE SUN -- that is one question.

My Mercury is 24 degrees ahead of the Sun, natally, and moving relatively slowly at about 1/2 degree per day. In fact, five days after birth, Mercury went retrograde. This places me somewhat near G. Bush and Martin Luther King on the chart --- a seemingly un-matched pair. So, I have to ask myself, "Self, what do you have in common with these two, apparently different men?" So, thats my question for me? What's your question for you? Dave

huredriel
09-02-2006, 22:51
Sorry Dave,

Probably being a complete dumbo here .... but I don't know how to work out how much my Mercury is ahead of my Sun or the speed :(

WhiteRaven
09-02-2006, 22:52
Sorry Dave,

Probably being a complete dumbo here .... but I don't know how to work out how much my Mercury is ahead of my Sun or the speed :(

Astro.com tells you if you bring up the pdf, detailed chart that you find in the Extended area.

WhiteRaven
09-02-2006, 22:53
WhiteRaven:

Motion is Retrograde.
More than 10 degrees from the Sun
Speed is -15' 24" So I'm presuming this is slow.
Mercury is behind the sun for me.

rcb30872
09-02-2006, 22:53
Thanks Dave for explaining, but still :confused:

Bec

huredriel
09-02-2006, 23:30
Yes I've pulled my chart from astro (and attached it in the birth data post) ..... but I can't *read* or understand it very much ... let alone see where *speed* is ... although I know that the motion is direct!

dadsnook2000
09-02-2006, 23:46
Speed is daily motion. Knowing where Mercury is on your date of birth, run a chart for a day later or three days later and see where Mercury is then. For a day later you simply subtract. For three days later, you subtract and then divide your answer by three. No matter how you do it, you get Daily Motion or speed. Is your Mercury fast, slow, moderate, direct or retrograde?

For distance, if the SUN and MERCURY are in the same sign you just subtract the smaller amount of degrees and minutes from the larger amount. Should SUN and MERCURY be in adjoining signs then you determine the distance from the common sign-cusp for each and add them together.

Dave.

huredriel
10-02-2006, 00:11
OK I got the speed, thanks to WhiteRaven .... 1.47 ... so I guess pretty slow? ...... still trying to work out the distance though ...... thinking Mercury may be 12 degrees ahead

Hmmm doesn't appear that anyone famous is on the graph for the speed :(

dadsnook2000
10-02-2006, 00:35
huredriel, contrary to what you said . . . Mercury is moving relatively fast, and Mercury 12 degrees ahead places you right in the midst of several famous people having similar characteristics: Marlon Brando, Johnny Carson, Martha Stewart. Marlon Brando's Mercury had a close opposition to Saturn while Johnny Carson's Mercury was conjunct Saturn. Martha Stewart on the other hand had no close Mercury-Saturn aspects but a closely aspected sextile to Neptune and inconjunct to the Moon.

Now, ask yourself, what common traits might you see between yourself and any of these people?

For me, George Bush and Martin Luther King seem to share a common trait with me -- we all have/had the ability to develop a strong vision or goal and then relentlessly pursue it, not letting distractions slow us down. Character traits in common -- none. Public presence on a large-scale stage -- not much for me, more small scale stages in my life.
Dave.

Crystelle
10-02-2006, 02:35
But I can't seem to figure out where I am on the graph...
My Mercury is in the same sign as my sun -- Sagittarius
There seems to be a 2.29 degree seperation... that seems fast?

HMMM so that puts me around....?
I'm not sure, so I use the 2.29? Or did I need to divide that by something?
Thanks for the help Dave!

Crystelle

dadsnook2000
10-02-2006, 02:46
That small amount of seperation puts you in the "combust" zone where Mercury is said by classical astrologers to be dominated or burnt up by the power of the Sun's rays. Position doesn't exactly correlate with speed although when Mercury is retrograde and close to the Sun's position it is often moving about 1 degree per day. When it is that close to the Sun's position and is in direct motion Mercury often moves at about 1 3/4 degrees per day.

Since your Mercury was direct at birth, it was moving fast, actually about 1 1/2 degrees per day. This puts you in with Placido Domingo the opera singer and Oprah Winfrey (the other Martha Stewart). So, start thinking, "What do you have in common with these people?" Dave

Crystelle
11-02-2006, 02:00
Dadsnook wrote: Placido Domingo the opera singer and Oprah Winfrey (the other Martha Stewart).

Well as far as Oprah is concerned I am very good at charity work and getting people to get involved for a cause. Of course I only pick causes that I agree with -- this uncomplicates things for me because I can be sincere. I also pursue what I think is right to the detriment to anything or anyone that attempts to be an obstacle! I can be a little snooty sometimes in what I believe I deserve because of the work I have done and the achievements I have garnered. People ALWAYS ask me for advice! {hehe and I don't know if I'll ever want to marry}

Placido Domingo? I'm not that sure. All I can think of is that I have always been told my musicians that I have a raw talent in communicating emotion through song. When I was 12 my grandmother told me that I had "the voice of a grown woman" (I was singing "If I loved You" from Carousel). Not sure that this is right... will do some research on this guy and perhaps edit the post...

Crystelle

wizzle
11-02-2006, 03:43
Just a real basic basic for those who are new. Planets in a chart travel counterclockwise.

Put your finger on the extreme left of the Chart where there is a horizontal line. That is your rising point. Now move your finger counterclockwise along the outside of the chart. Which planet do you reach first? If it is Mercury, then Mercury is "behind" the Sun. If it is the Sun, then Mercury is "ahead" of the Sun. In otherwords, the planet you reach last is "ahead."

I always find it much easier to understand if I have something to look at and can physically go through the process of seeing what is where. Virgo rising, you know!! What Dads suggested is that you can look at this process of the planets moving if you input data a couple of days apart. The easiest planet to watch move is the Moon, because it is so fast.

Hope this helps.

WhiteRaven
11-02-2006, 04:00
deleted.......wrong celeb.

Will edit when I figure out who I'm suppose to relate to.

wizzle
11-02-2006, 04:23
WR,

I don't think Dads meant you to be quite so literal and you look just fine as you are, so don't even think about a face lift. That's part of the problem when we compare with famous people.

But Michael has some more general qualities that would apply to his thinking function....

- innovative
- both very public and very private
- speaks rather poorly himself (his brothers are often his spokesmen)
- communicates in an outstanding way via his music and video

etc., etc.

BTW, I get VERY twisted around unless I have a chart to look at and I've been at this a long time. I just can't relate to lists too well. So don't feel bad if it's confusing.

WhiteRaven
11-02-2006, 04:41
WR,

I don't think Dads meant you to be quite so literal and you look just fine as you are, so don't even think about a face lift. That's part of the problem when we compare with famous people.

But Michael has some more general qualities that would apply to his thinking function....

- innovative
- both very public and very private
- speaks rather poorly himself (his brothers are often his spokesmen)
- communicates in an outstanding way via his music and video

etc., etc.

hmm...I don't see where I'm really innovative....I am a very private person in general (you wouldn't be able to tell by some of my posts here in AT thought :P)

I communicate better in writing.....much better for that matter. But when needed, I will speak quite clearly and get my point across all by myself.

wizzle
11-02-2006, 05:23
I thought I'd compare me and Dads since we have nearly inverted situations.

- Dads' Mercury is ahead of his Sun by over 20 degrees
- My Mercury is behind my Sun by over 20 degrees

Quick keyword review before I start to discuss

- Sun - focus, consciousness, integration, being, action
- Mercury - logic, discrimination, circulation, attention, thinking

So in my case my Sun approaches situations first and Mercury trails quite a ways behind. This makes me appear more intuitive than logical because my Sun often figures things out and knows where it's going before Mercury can work out the details and communicate to others how I got to where I got. Because the Sun integrates where Mercury discriminates, I am more of a "big picture" person and can get terribly bored by details. I've often gotten myself into difficulties because I act before I've thought things through sufficiently. The Sun lends tremendous enthusiasm and movement, but what I want to do may not be realistic once the Mercury function comes into play. And, lastly, I'm dislexic when it comes to directions (left, right, clockwise, counterclockwise, etc.) so I have a tough time with technical stuff in astrology.

Now in Dads' case his Mercury leads and I've noticed that he is great at details and is excellent at technical aspects of astrology which drive me up a wall. You might want to compare the way we described the Sun and the Moon in other threads. I think our style of communication is quite different.

wizzle
11-02-2006, 06:54
For those of you who are familiar with the various states of consciousness, I thought I'd offer the following equivalences:

Sun = alpha/theta state
Mercury = beta
Moon = lower theta/delta

or qabalistically

Sun = Neschamah
Mercury = Rauch
Moon = Nephesch/G'uph

This is strictly my own idea and may not be valid, but it does seem to fit fairly well.

squeakmo9
11-02-2006, 11:24
My Mercury is 16 degrees tau and Sun 18 degrees tau so I am also in "Combust", Mercury being behind the Sun by 2 degrees.
When I look on my chart, I see under Mercury..."Dist"- 14 and "Speed"-129' 8".
Is that 129hours and 8 minutes?
Is that really slow??
Since I have a "Combust", would that also put me in the Domingo, Marlon combo, Dave?

dadsnook2000
11-02-2006, 13:41
Your daily motion, at time of birth, for Mercury is just over 2 degrees -- very fast. Your in there with Katheryn Hepburn, Pope John Paul and Placido Domingo. This isn't to say that you act well, pray well or sing well, but there are other attributes that may occur to you. A drive for excellence, achievement, doing the best you can, etc. Let us know what your thoughts are. Dave

squeakmo9
12-02-2006, 12:14
Your in there with Katheryn Hepburn, Pope John Paul and Placido Domingo. This isn't to say that you act well, pray well or sing well,
LOL! Well said Dave, all true.

but there are other attributes that may occur to you. A drive for excellence, achievement, doing the best you can, etc. Let us know what your thoughts are. Dave

Funny, the other day a customer of mine was speaking to me about Placido Domingo (she has season tix to the Met) and how he seems to overwork himself to the point of exhaustion. She said he not only sings at the Met but conducts and is also associated with another opera place on the West coast. Sometimes it irks her that he'll to Don Juan or was it that other Don with the windmills and then fly out to Los Angeles, do something there then come back to NY and be too ill to perform. The guy is about 70 y.o. Crazy?!
Mercury wise, he is a world traveler as are Pope John and I guess to a certain extent K. Hepburn.
I made only one, but very important trip in my life and that was to this country(USA)...it changed my life, forever. I also manage to travel with my mind, by way of inner journeys having to do with the esoteric.
Ms. Hepburn seems to possess an unorthodox way of thinking, expressed in her lifestyle preference. She seemed to be easily intrigued and enamored by the usual traits in others, her relationship with Howard Hughes, Spencer Tracy. She took a more masculine role in thought and lifestyle, doing just about anything she well wanted. For someone who appeared to be so “different”, she somehow always remained the “same”.
I find that the men I do attract all possess a keen mind and even sharper wit, which I admire and envy at the same time. My lifestyle is plain and quiet, I do feel more comfortable being “initiator”, try to be more assertive than aggressive, and feel VERY comfortable in pants. LOL!
Both Pope John and Kathryn Hepburn were great communicators, so that being said, good listeners as well. They had an ability to draw people in via there mode of expression. Something for everyone to relate to.
Communication is a big thing for me, I don’t know how I would function in this world without the ability to speak or write. It is the one thing I feel I can offer, like, it’s an asset for me…not being a raging beauty or brainiac…I feel safe being able to express my being through my mind. Sounds weird, doesn’t it??? Not sure if I explained that right, anyway…
Mr. Domingo, being a great tenor, can integrate passion, sadness, disillusion with every aria he performs, regardless of the language.
I, given enough concentration, can make someone feel my emotions through words and convey to the listener my sincerity.
Am I on the right track Dave?

rcb30872
12-02-2006, 12:29
Sorry for my total ignorance, but I have been thinking about this, but how are you supposed to calculate whatever we are supposed to be calculating? I have come back to this thread on quite a few occasions, and it does not matter how many times I read what has been written I am none the wiser!!!

Bec

dadsnook2000
12-02-2006, 12:46
It is really quite simple. We have a little planet that orbits so close to the Sun that it move fast, is hard to see, and never gets very far away from the Sun so as to be able to make any aspects such as those we see with the outer planets (Mars, Jupiter and beyond). The only things we can determine about this little planet is that it is sometimes on one side of the Sun for several weeks, then on the other side of the Sun for several weeks and inbetween its either behind or infront of the Sun where it can't be seen.

So, what can we make of this fast moving rock? Does its apparent speed mean anything? Does its position near, behind or ahead of the Sun mean anything? How can we tell what these mean, if they mean anything?

We find the charts of a bunch of well known people, determine where in the scale of position and scale of speed they are, then we compare us (those on the list who participate) with them and see what common traits we might have.

To join in you have to determine how many degrees there are between your Sun and your Mercury at birth, as well as whether you are ahead in terms of zodiac sign/degree, behind in zodiac sign/degree. You can also run your birth chart for successive days and see how much distance Mercury covers from one day to the next day -- this is the speed or daily motion. With position and speed found you can see who you might be similar to. Then, we sit down and we think, think and think some more about our traits and their traits. Maybe we'll learn something, maybe not. Dave

rcb30872
12-02-2006, 12:53
Thanks Dave for that,

I have gone to my chart, and my Sun is in Virgo 7 degrees and 24 minutes, and Mercury is in Leo 20 degrees and 24 minutes. So if I have got the idea of what you are saying right, then would I be right in saying that there are 17 degress between my Sun and Mercury?

Also, somewhere in here, you have mentioned that Mercury was BEHIND my Sun.

Now just to find about the speed.....

This is after one day added to my birth chart:
Sun 8 Vir 07
Mercury 21 Leo 32
So this would 16 degrees and 35 minutes

After two days:
Sun 9 Vir 05
Mercury 23 Leo 06
So this would be 15 degrees and 59 minutes

After three days:
Sun 10 Vir 04
Mercury 24 Leo 44
This would be 15 degrees and 20 seconds

So I guess the speed is 1/2 a degree then??

Is that right???

In which case the closest that I can find according to your map or chart, would be Louis Armstrong

Or is the speed minus 1/2 degree?

In which case, then I would probably say Michael Jackson, or is it Clint Eastwood?

HELP!!

:love:

Bec

dadsnook2000
12-02-2006, 13:31
For determining Mercury's daily speed or motion you just compare Mercury's position from one day to the next. Your Mercury is moving a little over one degree per day. This and your distance from the Sun places you in a similar position to Bill Gates and Louis Armstrong and Condolezza Rice. Each of these excelled in their chosen careers. They may have other traits that you could identify with also. Each rose to their positions of leadership against all expectations of their peers and family. So, what do you see? Dave

rcb30872
12-02-2006, 13:33
Thanks Dave

Wow!! Good news for me then, hey? :grin:

Well, I want to rise, not necessarily to a place of leadership, but not in the way that is expected by my family and my peers. My family, especially. And the fact that they have excelled in their chosen careers, gives me great hope, as I would like to do the same, even though the chosen career, at the grand old age of 33, is not exactly known at the moment.

:love:

Bec

dadsnook2000
13-02-2006, 02:41
We have been looking at the Sun as it relates to Mercury. Mercury never leaves the Sun’s zodiac territory due to its close orbit, it also doesn’t form any classical aspects for us to use as we might for other astrological work. We have seen that Mercury can travel direct or retrograde, its apparent speed or daily motion can vary greatly in a few days time, and we have seen that this little planet has to be in one of three zodiac signs relative to the Sun – the sign behind, the sign ahead, or the sign of the Sun. Some of us have also taken up the challenge to compare our natal Mercury-Sun position and speed/motion to that of well known people in order to see what common traits we might have.

While this aspect of examining Mercury relative to the Sun has been lengthy, it should prove helpful as Mercury is hard for many astrologers to understand. For the length of this thread and its complexity, I apologize.

We have discussed the traits of Mercury: the process of communication, the structuring of thoughts, perceptions, short and long-term memory, thought associations, etc. We haven’t spent as much time on travel or mythology or actual communication modes. Mercury represents all of these as well – as outer expressions of inner workings. SO, LET ME TRY TO SUMMARIZE THINGS UP TO THIS POINT.

Remember, we are talking about the Sun and its relationship to Mercury, we are not exploring just Mercury alone – that’s another thread in the future.

POINT ONE: In my first posting I noted that Mercury typically covers about four signs of the Zodiac along with the Sun, before it (Mercury) turns RETROGRADE and re-travels part of its previous path through the signs. Signs are a measuring tool for “collective experience” – we all share the same signs. It is only where they are sequentially arranged within our chart or house system that gives them/us a particular place/attitude in the world. This back-tracking symbolizes an important Mercury function. We have a problem, we work at it, we struggle, we can’t make the progress we hope for. Then we stop thinking, relax, and bang! The solution pops up! This is how Mercury can work if given time to go within yourself and re-arrange associations and to find and bring forth what is asked for. So, this collective call to rethink, let-go, and be open to new paths can work for all of us. This works on an individual level as well. The House position for Mercury retrograde shows how we might rethink/re-solve issues in our life, the Sign position shows how we also share in the collective-everybody problems around us. This is what MERCURY RETROGRADE seems to mean.

POINT TWO: Does Mercury’s relative position to the Sun have any particular meaning? When Mercury is BEHIND (ZODIAC POSITION) the Sun, it communicates the Sun’s purpose quite clearly. What one says is what one is in terms of purpose and character. This Mercury phase collects and solidifies the experiences and purposes of the Sun. We might say that this is Mercury at its most practical and pragmatic, acting as a true messenger of the Sun.

When Mercury is AHEAD (ZODIAC POSITION) of the Sun, Mercury functions more on its own, exercising curiosity and gathering information, speaking spontaneously, imagining what “might be” rather than “what was/is.” The Sun’s purpose and direction does not influence strongly what Mercury does and the manner in which it functions. This Mercury at its most imaginative and perceptive functioning.

My personal thoughts, and these are not substantiated by research – just intuition and fragmentary experience – is that Mercury at/near the 10-to-11 degree position ahead or behind the Sun’s central position seems to suggest a life-focus on expressing the meanings of these “before” and “after” phases. Using Oprah Winfrey as an example, (she has Mercury in this 10-to-11 degrees “ahead” phase) she expresses her life as a continuous process of discovery and free-exploration, letting her work and career develop itself in innovative ways. On the other hand, people such as Katheryn Hepburn and Michael Jackson (we should also check John Wayne and Clark Gable) seem to express themselves in (being in the 10-to-11 degrees “behind” phase) in every role they are in by using their basic personal character and not a “role” character. Their character doesn’t seem to change or adapt to each situation – there is a type of rigidity there. They just “play” themselves in each role even though the movie-story requires them to be in the proper role.

POINT THREE: Personal sensitivity points where Mercury might function more visibly need to be explored individually. This is something that most astrologers and most astrology reading won’t cover due to the time involved. But we may find that pre-natal positions where Mercury changed directions or made station (turning from one direction to another) are important. Also, the distance points from the Sun (without use of the Signs) for Sun-to-Mercury separation might also prove – for some – to be sensitive points.

POINT FOUR: Outward symbols of Mercury need to be kept in mind when interpreting a chart. Each symbol operates at different levels in each chart, and symbols tend to express themselves in every way possible. Relative to the Sun, we can develop several general expressions:
** Mercury is behind the Sun in its zodiac position.
**** Speaking directly and plainly, a sense of self-honesty is heard.
**** Ability to assimilate one’s experiences and draw upon them.
**** Travels to/thru known areas and regions, follows well traveled paths.
**** Does well “representing” others as a spokesperson, writer, secondary leader.

** Mercury is ahead of the Sun in its zodiac position.
**** Asks lots of questions, speaks without thought at times. Can be sly in how one gathers information that one wants.
**** Looks for new experiences and opportunities, has great curiosity at times.
**** Explores new thing and regions on a whim.
**** Will talk for “effect” – just to see what an idea or a statement does relative to others.

** Mercury retrograde and within 10 to 11 degrees of the Sun.
**** Seeks to teach and share knowledge.
**** Helps to provide a basis of knowledge or a resource for others to use.
**** Points the way for others to explore, shows how to communicate effectively.

So, having said all of this, we each need to take this in, compare it to our own experience, and to comment on it if you wish. And, again, remember that all of this is relating to the Sun and Mercury and how Mercury helps the Sun to express itself. This is not Mercury alone that we have been talking about. Dave.

prudence
13-02-2006, 04:00
** Mercury is behind the Sun in its zodiac position.
**** Speaking directly and plainly, a sense of self-honesty is heard.
**** Ability to assimilate one’s experiences and draw upon them.
**** Travels to/thru known areas and regions, follows well traveled paths.
**** Does well “representing” others as a spokesperson, writer, secondary leader.

** Mercury is ahead of the Sun in its zodiac position.
**** Asks lots of questions, speaks without thought at times. Can be sly in how one gathers information that one wants.
**** Looks for new experiences and opportunities, has great curiosity at times.
**** Explores new thing and regions on a whim.
**** Will talk for “effect” – just to see what an idea or a statement does relative to others.

** Mercury retrograde and within 10 to 11 degrees of the Sun.
**** Seeks to teach and share knowledge.
**** Helps to provide a basis of knowledge or a resource for others to use.
**** Points the way for others to explore, shows how to communicate effectively.



Ok, so my merc is behind my sun, (Sun-0 PIS; Merc-8 AQU), but imo, I seem to fit the description of the ahead of the sun types.(i.e. speaking without thought etc...)Perhaps this is due to other happenings in my chart.

huredriel
13-02-2006, 04:15
When Mercury is AHEAD (ZODIAC POSITION) of the Sun, Mercury functions more on its own, exercising curiosity and gathering information, speaking spontaneously, imagining what “might be” rather than “what was/is.” The Sun’s purpose and direction does not influence strongly what Mercury does and the manner in which it functions. This Mercury at its most imaginative and perceptive functioning.
This is spot on for me ........ usually open mouth before engaging brain, lots of curiousity ....... especially about others ........ and brain always on the *might be's* rather than placed solidly in the present moment.

** Mercury is ahead of the Sun in its zodiac position.
**** Asks lots of questions, speaks without thought at times. Can be sly in how one gathers information that one wants.
**** Looks for new experiences and opportunities, has great curiosity at times.
**** Explores new thing and regions on a whim.
**** Will talk for “effect” – just to see what an idea or a statement does relative to others.
Have to say that I do ALL of these things ...... although the talking for *effect* is usually when I've needed to find something out ....... so I would tie that into the first bit you put.

Not had a chance yet to concentrate on what aspects I may share with the people you listed in the chart ..... hoping to get round to that shortly!

Thanks for posting all this info Dave, much appreciated.

dadsnook2000
13-02-2006, 04:21
Well you do have Mercury square Jupiter and Saturn, both of which are in opposition to each other, plus Mercury has a wide opposition to the Moon (this would make a grand cross). Lets break this down in general terms.

Jupiter opposite Saturn suggests the development of perserverance, patience, straight-forwardness, honesty (Gee, these are the same as I had noted for Mercury behind the Sun, zodiac-wise -- a repeating pattern) OR this pattern can suggest emotional tensions over compliance or social rules, or stop-go tensions relative to conflicting experiences in the past.

Throw Mercury into this mix, via a square aspect, and you have variability and uncertainty as to how to reconcile conflicting experiences or as to when to apply patience and moderation when you feel otherwise. Feelings? That brings in the Moon. Past happenings may have created associations that are in conflict with perceptions. You may be in a long-term process of re-ordering your experiences in earlier phases of life so as to suit the more mature-you of today. Is speaking out a means of testing the waters or is it due to the use of past practices that are being carried forward when they need to be changed? Are old habits getting in the way of a new you?

Its quite possible that other factors are in contrast to your Sun-Mercury predispostion and that you are in the process of making deep changes within yourself. Dave.

WhiteRaven
13-02-2006, 04:32
** Mercury is behind the Sun in its zodiac position.
**** Speaking directly and plainly, a sense of self-honesty is heard.
**** Ability to assimilate one’s experiences and draw upon them.
**** Travels to/thru known areas and regions, follows well traveled paths.
**** Does well “representing” others as a spokesperson, writer, secondary leader.

This pretty much fits the bill except the last part. Although my Mercury is Retro at birth.


** Mercury retrograde and within 10 to 11 degrees of the Sun.
**** Seeks to teach and share knowledge.
**** Helps to provide a basis of knowledge or a resource for others to use.
**** Points the way for others to explore, shows how to communicate effectively.
.

Although my Mercury is a tad further in distance, this also fits the bill quite snuggly.....and also blends into the Moon Phase that I find myself in.

prudence
13-02-2006, 10:21
Well you do have Mercury square Jupiter and Saturn, both of which are in opposition to each other, plus Mercury has a wide opposition to the Moon (this would make a grand cross). Lets break this down in general terms.

Jupiter opposite Saturn suggests the development of perserverance, patience, straight-forwardness, honesty (Gee, these are the same as I had noted for Mercury behind the Sun, zodiac-wise -- a repeating pattern) OR this pattern can suggest emotional tensions over compliance or social rules, or stop-go tensions relative to conflicting experiences in the past.

Throw Mercury into this mix, via a square aspect, and you have variability and uncertainty as to how to reconcile conflicting experiences or as to when to apply patience and moderation when you feel otherwise. Feelings? That brings in the Moon. Past happenings may have created associations that are in conflict with perceptions. You may be in a long-term process of re-ordering your experiences in earlier phases of life so as to suit the more mature-you of today. Is speaking out a means of testing the waters or is it due to the use of past practices that are being carried forward when they need to be changed? Are old habits getting in the way of a new you?

Its quite possible that other factors are in contrast to your Sun-Mercury predispostion and that you are in the process of making deep changes within yourself. Dave.

Well, I am straightforward, and honest, which is sort of what I meant about the speaking without a lot of thought...I have gotten into many awkward situations by being way too honest. As you mentioned, I am trying to change certain aspects of this, within myself.

I am trying to relate this behavior to past experiences, as you had mentioned, but so far am only coming up with having been the youngest of 4 daughters, in a very verbal household. Lots of verbal sparring.

I think sometimes the speaking out is "testing the waters", but sometimes, it is like a reflex to certain stimuli (a question being raised, or a comment made, after which, in knee jerk fashion, I will make a silly remark or answer the question before the teacher has chosen a student to answer it, but, invariably after this I feel like "whoops, didn't mean to say that *out loud*." Can be embarrassing at times) It's usually because I am excited about the subject being discussed.

Thanks very much for this explanation.

dadsnook2000
13-02-2006, 10:55
We have discussed, explored and shared a lot in this Sun-relating-with-Mercury thread. We have looked at the nature of Mercury's relationship to the Sun, its orbital and astronomical differences with other planets, we have compared some of those astronomical differences that othr people share with us, we have looked at some given meanings of Mercury, and we have shared.

I'm sure that all who have followed this thread have learned things about themselves and others. This thread has allowed me to explore and solidify some thoughts about Mercury, and I have learned from this discussion. So much so that I will print it out and keep it. We may have uncovered a few things that the books don't address, so this thread is valuable to us all.

I want to thank all of those who have responed, and those who may yet choose to share and comment here. In a day or two I'll start a thread exploring the Sun and Venus relationship -- we won't discuss specific aspects or houses or signs but will focus (as we did with Mercury) on how Sun and Venus might work together. Much later, after we fully cover the Sun, we'll look at Mercury (and later Venus) in terms of aspects and workings with the planets. So, again thank. I'll continue to monitor this thread even after the next is started -- of course, if someone comes up with more to explore, then we'll continue here. Dave.

stardancer
15-02-2006, 05:09
** Mercury is behind the Sun in its zodiac position.
**** Speaking directly and plainly, a sense of self-honesty is heard.
**** Ability to assimilate one’s experiences and draw upon them.
**** Travels to/thru known areas and regions, follows well traveled paths.
**** Does well “representing” others as a spokesperson, writer, secondary leader.

** Mercury is ahead of the Sun in its zodiac position.
**** Asks lots of questions, speaks without thought at times. Can be sly in how one gathers information that one wants.
**** Looks for new experiences and opportunities, has great curiosity at times.
**** Explores new thing and regions on a whim.
**** Will talk for “effect” – just to see what an idea or a statement does relative to others.

Mercury in Libra is conjunct the ascendant, direct, 15 degrees behind the Sun, traveling about average speed, maybe a bit over.

I think I act like both ahead and behind the sun, as if I were dual in nature and am made to adapt to everything. Adapt to everything: that's me sometimes. So much so that I need to go away for long periods of time to assimilate all my collections. I have alternately tripped over my too big mouth, spoke so eloquently that I am in shock afterwards, (lol) and then have been at a total loss for words.

dadsnook2000
22-02-2006, 04:59
WhiteRaven had posted a question which I overlooked in terms of answering it. The question related to whether ADD or ADHD or Attention Defecit Syndrome/Disorder (many similar terms and child-hood afflictions) could be related to a Sun-Mercury pattern. I had sent him a PM and it was suggested that this question and answer be posted IN THE HOPE THAT OTHERS MIGHT BE ABLE TO COMMENT UPON THIS AND PERHAPS OFFER SOME HELP.

I overlooked your question about ADD or ADHD problems and whether they related to specific Mercury conditions. I don't think its that simple.

I would think that attention and focus problems, typical of pre-adult age groups, is more a result of other things that affect their ability and experience of organizing what they perceive, forming associative patterns between memeory and thought segments, retrieving and associating and then re-constructing feeling, memory and processing functions.

The pre-natal effects upon them due to smoking, drinking, drugs, health, stress, eating, sleeping, etc. by the mother, plus their own living experineces in dealing with stress, family, health and environmental conditions can all affect this mind-building process that is so important in young people and which continues through ones life time.

So, all that being said, I don't think we can see this in terms of a simple Mercury speed/position/relationship factor. The whole chart may point to this to some degree, and we can certainly see clues that might contribute to this (angular Moon, a stress Mercury in hard aspect to the Moon or Pluto, Mars-Saturn conflicts, etc.) Thats about the best I can do right now. Maybe something will come to the top of my mind later on this.

stardancer
22-02-2006, 05:19
To add to that, I think certain tones set in a birth chart can act either in a more positive or negative manner, depending on the environment a person grows up in.

For instance, a person with a strong Mars or Jupiter to Mercury aspect may feel a more challenging home environment cause to rise above and become better, or argue against the environment and for themselves, whereas a more reactionary person with a Saturn Mercury or Moon Mercury square might become bitter or too reactionary under the challange. Some personalities types seem better suited to certain situations.

WhiteRaven
22-02-2006, 05:48
In regards to the chart I was referring to and ADHD.....it belongs to my son.
The only aspects that he carries with Mercury are:

Opposition Mercury-Saturn, orb = 04°45'
Trine Mercury-Uranus, orb = 02°15'
Trine Mercury-Neptune, orb = 03°25'
Sextile Mercury-Pluto, orb = 03°03'

Conjunction Mercury-Nth Node, orb = 09°35'
Opposition Mercury-Sth Node, orb = 09°35'

Generally, I would say these are all good aspects.....(I think..)

This is why I thought that perhaps the speed would have something to do with it. But, I am in agreement with Dave in regards to environment and upbringing etc...that do have effects. When in a structured environment, the ADHD can be somewhat contained.....although the medication plays a very important role as well. Without medication, these children are basically spinning.....and I have to think when I'm Hyper....what I feel inside...which isn't "good".

Anyways, Thank you Dave for addressing my question. :)

dadsnook2000
22-02-2006, 08:15
I have constructed an answer for you but something in the message wording is causing a server problem when I submit the answer. I can't even PM you with the message. If this goes thru I'll try rewording the whole message. Dave

WhiteRaven
22-02-2006, 08:20
From another post:

There are three other new words that may trigger the error, when used in a post or private message and followed by a space. The full list is:

'curl'
'lynx'
'wget'
'uname'
'nmap'

If your message still doesn't contain any of these words, please email me a copy of the message and I'll look into it further. My apologies for the inconvenience.

~ Solandia

dadsnook2000
23-02-2006, 06:46
This is the reply that I could not send yesterday. The technical reason was found by Solandia -- there was a double space after the colen following the word Pluto in comment 4. When we learn to type in school, a half century ago, you always put two spaces after a colen. That doesn't work well on the Internet. So here is your reply.

The aspects you noted are interesting. In themselves they don't signify ADHD

1) Opposition Mercury-Saturn: These two planets in aspect relate to deep
thinking and mental processes. The opposition suggests a focus on
seperating out facts from initial impressions, a slower process of
organizing data may not keep up with the rush of inputs.

Suggestion: A structured presentation of material, at a slower pace, may
help provide the time to work with the mental processes. Less distraction,
working apart form the distractions of others.

2) Trine Mercury-Uranus: These two planets suggest a type of shrewdness or
some mental skill at pattern recognition. He has mental strengths but may
not apply them to the right situations but instead not use the right
process to address the situation at hand.

Suggestion: The patient teaching of a procedure for solving a problem or
starting a project can provide a framework that guides him toward a better
work-habit. Having a method as a reliable tool can bring stability and success.

3) Trine Mercury-Neptune: This is a fantasy or imagination factor. Or an
inability to discriminate well.

Suggestion: Keep computer games and other distractions for certain times. A
structured lifestyle often helps kids. I know as we have a child with this
problem.

4) Sextile Mercury-Pluto: This can make for a rapid mental process or a
great deal of restlesness (in-attention) and haste.

Suggestion: This is hard to deal with. I guess you just have to keep
working on the procedure-for-this and the procedure-for-that approach.
Structure is what seems to work --- along with medicines like Adderol
(spelling?). Dave

WhiteRaven
27-02-2006, 00:14
This is the reply that I could not send yesterday. The technical reason was found by Solandia -- there was a double space after the colen following the word Pluto in comment 4. When we learn to type in school, a half century ago, you always put two spaces after a colen. That doesn't work well on the Internet. So here is your reply.

The aspects you noted are interesting. In themselves they don't signify ADHD

1) Opposition Mercury-Saturn: These two planets in aspect relate to deep
thinking and mental processes. The opposition suggests a focus on
seperating out facts from initial impressions, a slower process of
organizing data may not keep up with the rush of inputs.

Suggestion: A structured presentation of material, at a slower pace, may
help provide the time to work with the mental processes. Less distraction,
working apart form the distractions of others.

2) Trine Mercury-Uranus: These two planets suggest a type of shrewdness or
some mental skill at pattern recognition. He has mental strengths but may
not apply them to the right situations but instead not use the right
process to address the situation at hand.

Suggestion: The patient teaching of a procedure for solving a problem or
starting a project can provide a framework that guides him toward a better
work-habit. Having a method as a reliable tool can bring stability and success.

3) Trine Mercury-Neptune: This is a fantasy or imagination factor. Or an
inability to discriminate well.

Suggestion: Keep computer games and other distractions for certain times. A
structured lifestyle often helps kids. I know as we have a child with this
problem.

4) Sextile Mercury-Pluto: This can make for a rapid mental process or a
great deal of restlesness (in-attention) and haste.

Suggestion: This is hard to deal with. I guess you just have to keep
working on the procedure-for-this and the procedure-for-that approach.
Structure is what seems to work --- along with medicines like Adderol
(spelling?). Dave


Thank you Dave. I just noticed this as I was re-reading the Series before replying to Jupiter....
Much of what you have said and suggested is correct. Monitoring and creating structure and routine seems to be what works best. I have went as far as considering HomeSchooling so I can monitor this and present a slower, more precise method of learning.

Anyways, thanks again! :)

firecatpickles
04-04-2007, 10:57
I am there with squeakmo: My Mercury is combust (8 degrees) behind the Sun & is traveling at 2.2 deg/day average, over a period of 11 days.

I do not really see myself personality-wise among Placido & Katherine.

I also notice something: that is is not possible for one to go outside the realm of "The Performer" phase, as Mercury relates to the Moon, because Mercury is never more than 28 degrees away from the Sun?

Is there going to be a Mercury-Moon relationship thread?

dadsnook2000
04-04-2007, 14:09
I don't think so. Unless there are several who would like to explore this. My reason being that there is no natural phase relationship here. The Moon circles the Earth. Mercury circles the Sun, has retrograde motion, and has it's meanings closely tied to the Sun. Yes, we can do a relationship study but other than using house positions I'm not sure how it would work. Dave