Providing information beyond responses to questions...

I have been seeing professionals post the type of cards they are reading, the actual images, the layout used, the actual card and the explanation. I'm not talking about "reading exchanges" where professionals might be teaching each other/showcasing their personal style. I'm talking about paid readings.

What I'm wondering is: Are these professionals teaching the seekers? Okay, okay, that's probably not what is intended. And I figure the idea is to give the seeker some form of interaction and further understanding.

But if we, as professionals, are sharing such information why does the seeker need to bother getting a reading from us. Why not pick up a set of cards and a book and just "go to it"? Perhaps I'm being cynical, perhaps I'm concerned for the industry, and I certainly don't want to offend...

Why would a professional teach the craft to seekers who are just asking us questions? As a professional, I might actually like such a reading as I could scope out the competition.

When I give a reading, I write it almost like a story and don't mention the actual cards pulled, the layout used, or anything like that. I just answer people's questions and wrap it up with a summary statement.

Curious...

(please keep in mind which forum I'm posting in and that I'm looking at the industry as a whole i.e. there is no money in no mystery! ;-)

Hi, Abella! I've enjoyed reading your posts in other threads.

I do my email and my face to face readings just as outlined in your first sentence. I do this precisely in order to take the mystery out of it. I have no interest in pretending that what I do is out of anyone's reach. If they get the Tarot bug from what I tell them, that's great! Since I work out of a meta shop, most of my clients already read or have friends read for them anyway, and several are professionals who read at other venues. Whether they've ever seen a Tarot card before or not, though, I'll show them exactly why I link two cards together or what I see in a card that jogs a thought. If I went to a reader and she was acting mysterious about it, I think I would probably wonder why she felt she needed to put on a show when the cards were right there on the table. I mean, I pay a hairdresser to do what almost anyone with the right equipment and training presumably could do, and I can see what she's doing and she'll even explain it to me. Same with a plumber. But I don't want to do it for myself. Most people I read for don't really want to take the time or make the effort to learn the cards, and they know that what I do isn't just from a book. But I feel it is respectful to let them know that they could do it if they wanted to.

Blessings,
A

Hi Apollonia!

Thanks for your response; definately food for thought.

True, it's no longer a mystery when the majority of people know about it. hehe But then that's what concerns me as far as a "professional industry" goes. When there is no mystery, no money follows. Everyone can do it!! And if everyone can do it (even if they don't) then the service is often devalued. i.e. A professional Tarot forum would be obsolete. Reminds me of Web design and how that went the way of the tube slide. I mean designers went from charging obsene amounts to hanging up signs, "will work for food". Mind you greed creates challenging karma to be dispersed at a later date.

I hope no one misunderstands me though. I LOVE teaching others and sharing. So much so that I often shoot my own foot and the feet of others by saying too much. I have learned to calm my knowledge transfer down and it's been painful but for the best all around.

I often say, even in readings, that they can do what I do and that I believe everyone is psychic. I have just developed this naturally God given gift and if they have the interest and time, they can do the same. So I wouldn't say I'm pretending that it's unreachable but at the same time I don't believe my main goal is teaching during a reading.

In regards to the mention of "If I went to a reader and she was acting mysterious about it, I think I would probably wonder why she felt she needed to put on a show when the cards were right there on the table." That's exactly why I avoid reading for other readers -- it's less about the reading and more about the process. *grin*

"I mean, I pay a hairdresser to do what almost anyone with the right equipment and training presumably could do, and I can see what she's doing and she'll even explain it to me. Same with a plumber."

I see what you are saying and I will ponder on that more...

But does a hairdresser and plumber really break down the name of their tools, a diagram of the cutting/fixing method, etc. etc.

I would think simply saying: "We are going to wash your hair, then cut, style, and blow dry" to be sufficient rather than saying, "I'm using the Salon Special method of cutting with the L'oreal brush and I arrived at this decision because you are a special lady -- want to see a picture of the shampoo packaging?" lol I'm exaggerating of course.

See, I think it's great to tell a querant the steps I'm going to take and how the reading will go but I think telling them about the process is not only damaging the industry but also defocuses from the actual reading. Now, if the querant actually wants to learn about Tarot, I see that a bit differently and my heart yearns to tell them but if I'm going to develop a professional business -- they need to join my workshop rather than me giving stuff away for free all the time.

"But I feel it is respectful to let them know that they could do it if they wanted to."

I believe respect is really important but I'm not sure what is meant by what is said above.

But when I have said all this, I think to myself that the more people that know about Tarot reading and the benefits of it and how to do it, the better it is for the industry.

In the interim, I offer a number of services which are not easily learned (which secrets I guard) and that keeps me doing more than the "average" and able to make a living doing this full time.

I still share but I'm very careful of sharing just a) common knowledge or b) info that helps the industry and seekers.

Namaste,
Abella

Apollonia said:

I do my email and my face to face readings just as outlined in your first sentence. I do this precisely in order to take the mystery out of it. I have no interest in pretending that what I do is out of anyone's reach. If they get the Tarot bug from what I tell them, that's great! Since I work out of a meta shop, most of my clients already read or have friends read for them anyway, and several are professionals who read at other venues. Whether they've ever seen a Tarot card before or not, though, I'll show them exactly why I link two cards together or what I see in a card that jogs a thought. If I went to a reader and she was acting mysterious about it, I think I would probably wonder why she felt she needed to put on a show when the cards were right there on the table. I mean, I pay a hairdresser to do what almost anyone with the right equipment and training presumably could do, and I can see what she's doing and she'll even explain it to me. Same with a plumber. But I don't want to do it for myself. Most people I read for don't really want to take the time or make the effort to learn the cards, and they know that what I do isn't just from a book. But I feel it is respectful to let them know that they could do it if they wanted to.

Blessings,
A

Click to expand...

I have to say that reading the tarot is no great mystery--anybody can learn. It's not a secret society, or a lodge with limited membership or even a mystery religion. It's a skill.
It is also perhaps a talent that one can develop. As is psychicism.

I explain what I'm doing as I go along, because it is no great mystery. I want my clients to understand what I'm doing. I am being paid for my time, knowledge and skill, and I do not feel that the "industry" will be harmed or destroyed if I point out how 2 cards work together. I want to be more than a mysterious sybil to my clients. I'd rather be a role model of what application and practice can accomplish.

But then, I've been doing this for a very long time, and am not threatened by the possibility of others gaining knowledge and insight with tarot. I'm glad to see new readers--they will ensure that tarot will not die out after I'm gone. When I first started reading back in the early 1960's, there where very few readers and very few decks on the market. The tarot renascence in the middle '70's changed that, and tarot has been flourishing ever since. I'm in favor of that continuing. These new readers are not all going to run right out and become competition for me. A few of them may, and so what? None of them will provide exactly what I do, just as I do not provide exactly what they do. It's a big world with lots of room for us all.

Really.

"I have to say that reading the tarot is no great mystery--anybody can learn. It's not a secret society, or a lodge with limited membership or even a mystery religion. It's a skill. It is also perhaps a talent that one can develop. As is psychicism."

As long as people don't know, it's a mystery. If I go with your logic, then "nothing" is a mystery and I would agree. But that's not what I'm talking about.

Just to let others know what I mean when I say:

Mystery:
"The skills, lore, or practices that are peculiar to a particular activity or group and are regarded as the special province of initiates."

Initiate: "One who has been introduced to or has attained knowledge in a particular field."

source: http://www.dictionary.com

"I explain what I'm doing as I go along, because it is no great mystery. I want my clients to understand what I'm doing."

If they didn't know how it worked before you start explaining, then to me -- they would think it mysterious. And isn't it enough for seekers to just get their questions answered? I'm confused about the "teaching during a reading" part.

"I am being paid for my time, knowledge and skill,"
are you also being paid to share trade "secrets" or the telling of process?
If you want to, it's obviously your right but I'm curious.

"and I do not feel that the "industry" will be harmed or destroyed if I point out how 2 cards work together."

2 cards? Oh, probably not 2 cards but I don't see it working that way. An industry gets harmed over time through many people, acts, situations, experiences, etc... I don't think one or two people affect the whole. I see the whole affecting the whole.

Lets look at phone readings. Someone who has got quick readings by phone (because it can get very expensive) may have a hard time working with a traditional in-person reading.

I'm of the belief that frames of reference and value of skill change when someone knows what you are doing. At the same time, I am somewhat happy that more people are getting involved in Tarot as it makes what we do "legitimate" and takes away from the "scary" or "otherworldly" aspect: Everyone can do it!! Then again, I don't just do Tarot -- if I did I would be very worried in regards to the future and the work I do.

"I want to be more than a mysterious sybil to my clients. I'd rather be a role model of what application and practice can accomplish."
I hope I'm not being misunderstood. I do not believe that my clients should look at me in any which way other than a person who has skill, knowledge, and interest to answer their questions for their highest good and happiness using esoteric tools.

This is the part I don't get: role model of application and practice -- why do your clients need to know how you do what you do? How does that make one a role model? That's where I see the "teaching" element really strong when I see others share exactly what it is that they are doing. I don't see any "wrong" in that, it's just that I don't fully understand it and believe it can have a detriment on the industry.

When I say: no mystery = no money that is quite accurate in a broad sense; however, I'm not using the word "mystery" as in "no one can ever learn about what is behind that veil". I believe everyone, with enough time and interest can learn whatever it is that they want to. Otherwise, I would have never learned all that I have on my own. Before Tarot was a mystery and it is no longer. Astrology is still somewhat of a mystery as I haven't fully explored it and likely never will.

"But then, I've been doing this for a very long time, and am not threatened by the possibility of others gaining knowledge and insight with tarot."

I have been doing this for a long time too. I'm not "personally" threatened. I'm addressing something a lot of professionals don't and that's looking at the whole picture. That's why a lot of professions have associations that protect the professionals & consumers, educate the public, and offer certifications.

I think a lot of readers are not looking at the whole which is one area I wanted to address in this thread. Personally I have enough confidence and diversification in divinatory practice and ability that it doesn't bother me (other than people expecting cheap readings or that I'm going to tell them what deck I'm using -- focus on the reading!! but I'm somewhat concerned for the industry -- somewhat.

"I'm glad to see new readers--they will ensure that tarot will not die out after I'm gone."
Everyone is a reader these days! Tarot is very very accessible to the point where there could be a devaluing of skill. As illustrated before, if someone thinks they can do it -- it shouldn't cost as much, even if a) they don't know how to do it and b) they don't do it. It just seems to be a universal principle or something.

There is money in mystery.

"When I first started reading back in the early 1960's, there where very few readers and very few decks on the market. The tarot renascence in the middle '70's changed that, and tarot has been flourishing ever since. I'm in favor of that continuing."
I'm all for that continuing as well.

"These new readers are not all going to run right out and become competition for me."

I disagree.

"A few of them may, and so what? None of them will provide exactly what I do, just as I do not provide exactly what they do."

Well that's true. That's why I don't worry much about my personal ability to continue to make money in this industry but I'm not just looking at that.

"It's a big world with lots of room for us all."
ehhh... I'm not so sure about that. I mean why did Web designers start hangin the "will work for food" signs? Everyone became a Web designer overnight and Web design is really undervalued and oversaturated these days.

Yes, there are designers who still make a living doing what they do but there's a lot of competition. Same goes with graphic design. I mean, if one's nephew can whip up a site, why bother hiring someone to make a professional site for $1500.00 when Joey can do it for free!

Sure there is a case for doing it professionally but there are a ton of people who couldn't give a hoot, FREE speaks louder.

"Really."
Really

magpie9

As I was further contemplating this interesting subject, I reflected on your time in reading and I wonder if there are any posts that you have wrote about what it was like to read in the 60's & 70's.

I really love history and I was born very early in the 70's so I sort of missed out on that time period. What were people asking? The same as today? Were people scared of the Tarot? I understand there wasn't as many publications as there are today -- how did one learn?

Anyway, fascinating stuff -- history...

""When I give a reading, I write it almost like a story and don't mention the actual cards pulled, the layout used, or anything like that. I just answer people's questions and wrap it up with a summary statement. ""

I do it that way, too, if it's an online reading. If it's in person, then of course the client is sitting right there seeing what cards I've put out for them and what deck, but I still do it that way. But if they ask me questions, I tell them. I've read for other readers online and then I did tell them the deck and the interpretation I saw for them if they said they read the cards or if I sensed they did and asked them if they did.

See, to me, reading the cards is a thing unique to an individual reader. It's the cards speaking to ME when I read, and not speaking in the same way they'd speak to any other reader necessarily. What my intuition tells me a particular card or combination of cards is saying is totally different than what those cards might say to someone else, chances are. The wisdom I share prompted by the cards in front of me is unique to me. It may share things in common with others, but only I carry the experiences, memories, and wisdom gained in my own lifetime. My belief is that what each of us contributes to the lives of others is necessary to that time, that place and that person. What I have to say and how I say it is right for the person, time and place I say it. Nobody else can ever say it exactly as I say it so therefore there's no danger that anyone else is going to fill my shoes or be a threat to me or to my tarot skills. If the sitter learns some skills from me or they're inspired to learn to read, then it was meant that they learn because the Universe will send them, in turn, those people who want to hear exactly what they have to say in the way only they can say it. And further, I believe that they were meant to sit in front of me and be inspired to learn to read the cards themselves precisely so that the other people who need to hear their readings will be able to hear them.

I'm not sure this is making sense to anyone but me, but I hope it is. I just don't feel there are any accidents and I believe we're all part of one whole, meant to be where and what we are at any time. There's no danger that in sharing knowledge and skills with clients, we're going to glut the market with tarot readers, but even if we did, it would probably be part of the greater plan for mankind, so I'd still be secure in the knowledge that I'd played the part I was supposed to play and I'm happy with that.

My attitude is that if we sit on our gifts and don't let them flow freely through us because we're selfish with them, then we create a spiritual logjam that prevents us from having all the wealth of blessings we're meant to have and pass on.

Hi Lyric!

"I do it that way, too, if it's an online reading. If it's in person, then of course the client is sitting right there seeing what cards I've put out for them and what deck, but I still do it that way. But if they ask me questions, I tell them."
Me too. I tell them. I like sharing.

"I've read for other readers online and then I did tell them the deck and the interpretation I saw for them if they said they read the cards or if I sensed they did and asked them if they did. "
I don't *usually* like reading for other readers except for on one site -- that site has readers who are really cool and "allow" other readers to read in the way that works best for them. *grin*

"See, to me, reading the cards is a thing unique to an individual reader."
Agreed.

It's the cards speaking to ME when I read, and not speaking in the same way they'd speak to any other reader necessarily. What my intuition tells me a particular card or combination of cards is saying is totally different than what those cards might say to someone else, chances are."

True, which is why I find some danger in saying what the cards are for each position. It's like an opportunity for argument (especially if the sitter knows *anything* about the standard card meanings. So seekers might think "all" 9 of Cups means "wishes fulfilled" all the time.

"The wisdom I share prompted by the cards in front of me is unique to me. It may share things in common with others, but only I carry the experiences, memories, and wisdom gained in my own lifetime. My belief is that what each of us contributes to the lives of others is necessary to that time, that place and that person...."
Everything you say -- Agreed! *grin* Which is why I'm *NOT* threatened by other readers. But I'm talking about something more global.

"There's no danger that in sharing knowledge and skills with clients"
I think there can be. The type I was talking about where it looks like a "cookbook" of Tarot recipes: layouts, images, and jargon that ultimately is likely to be meaningless to most unless they were interested in reading on their own or for others.

", we're going to glut the market with tarot readers"
I disagree. There are tons of readers now because there is more information and knowledge shared then there was in the past.

", but even if we did, it would probably be part of the greater plan for mankind,"

I'm in business. I know that's harsh to say. I'm also quite spiritual. That's easy to say. I want mankind to be in a happier place. I want to share my wisdom but one of my lessons in life is to share this wisdom in profitable ways. Again, sounds cold and hard but I'm doing this professionally because I have a gift AND I need to pay bills. I have a strong mission in life and that is to help others but I need/want to be paid. Because we are working in a field of "helping" the spirit of others, we will often be faced with, "they shouldn't charge/I shouldn't charge/we shouldn't charge".

We are in the age of Aquarius so I am all for people knowing about and accepting Tarot and esoteric forms of improving ones' life. Heck I'm writing an article about it for our local paper!! ;-) But that doesn't change the fact that it IS possible to oversaturate a market in a negative way. Now I do believe in what you believe in: Everything happens for a reason. So ultimately it isn't for me to decide if oversaturation is a good or a bad thing.

But I think it's important for professionals to remember the "business side" of what we are doing if we shall continue to prosper and bring a high level of service to others.

"My attitude is that if we sit on our gifts and don't let them flow freely through us because we're selfish with them,"
Again I agree. One of my gifts is aquiring and sharing knowledge and for the longest time I did this freely without any consideration for myself or others (perhaps I was being selfish as I loved giving away stuff for free) but then I realized that this world wasn't really made for me and that I had to be "strategic" if I was going to prosper but that didn't mean I had to stop sharing. I still share. I share on these forums and in my blog and while talking to clients but but but I am conscious of what I'm sharing. I share things which benefit seekers and this industry and those in my charge and sometimes I share secrets with other professionals (especially when it's reciprocal as is in this forum).

And on the topic of gifts, do lawyers publish their *form* "documents/contracts"? If they did, we would rarely need them as they would be published for free and we would just have to change a few words. Sure some of us would still see them but many wouldn't.

Do athletes tell us how to break the world record? Will McD's tell us what's in their secret sauce? Some things are *meant* to be trade secrets or proprietary because if the secret got out or got out too fast, there would be less profit because there IS money in mystery.

I'm not certain I'm making my point very clearly -- I'm not always good at that in forums.

"then we create a spiritual logjam that prevents us from having all the wealth of blessings we're meant to have and pass on."
I'm all for giving and receiving, creating abundance and growth of one and all.

Finally these are my values and my mission in life (not so cold and businessey like this thread is more than likely appearing (Capricorn rising!)):

Values: I stand for authenticity, integrity, knowledge, originality, quality, professionalism, productivity, efficiency, and being people-focused.

Mission: To use my positive, enthusiastic, and authentic way of being to inspire and motivate others to express and communicate positive, productive, and meaningful words and actions towards themselves and the people and issues they care about.

Namaste!

Ok i'm not a professional tarot reader by any stretch of the imagination i've been reading for others and when I send a friends reading over the net I like to send them the cards, because I like to say "Ok I see this fish, he represents imagination, now in this position it means the time for fantasy is passing" now I don't feel that is revealing all my secrets, because if someone was in front of me i'd tell them the same thing.
It's not because i'm trying to teach them, it's because i want to give them some way to see what I am saying.

I just want to touch on will atheletes teach you how to break a world record point.
I was involved in proffesional sport for a lot of my life, I can show you how to shoot a basketball perfectly, I can train you, I can get you to the point where physically you can do it, mentally you understand the proccess, you know the mechanics, you body remembers the movement like breathing - does that mean you will be able to do it in a game? no. because I can't teach you the instinct to know when it's on and when it's not.

Just because you know how doesn't mean you can or will. Some will learn for themselves and never read proffesionally because of time, shyness, peer pressure. The cream always rises to the top, readers who don't know "when it's on" because they recite card definitions by rote will be weeded out.

If we rely on the mystery to sell our trade then maybe we should all take acting classes as well, so we enhance the theatre of it all.

fascinating discussion, looking forward to more input.
kind regards
r.

""I want to share my wisdom but one of my lessons in life is to share this wisdom in profitable ways.""

I've found that I'm much more successful and materially blessed when profit isn't the goal in sharing my wisdom and expertise. It's been quite a paradox for me.


""Just because you know how doesn't mean you can or will. Some will learn for themselves and never read proffesionally because of time, shyness, peer pressure. The cream always rises to the top, readers who don't know "when it's on" because they recite card definitions by rote will be weeded out.

If we rely on the mystery to sell our trade then maybe we should all take acting classes as well, so we enhance the theatre of it all.""

Well said, raheli. I agree.