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Irminsul
11-03-2006, 22:48
I’ve just received Jodorowosky's The Way of the Tarot (in Spanish) and have begun reading it. It’s a long, deep, detailed and introspective book. Not an easy read, but fascinating (thus far, at least for me). It’s certainly bound to scare away the modern-day seeker of briefer and simpler, How-To-Tarot methods.

Jodorowsky seems to have distilled into the book his lifelong relationship with the Tarot, including the creation of the Camoin-Jodorowsky deck. As he explains in the introduction, along the way he was constrained to discard many cherished notions. He mentions an encounter with French poet Andre Breton in the early fifties, recounting how Breton dismissed the RWS deck (that J. had proudly displayed), extolling instead the richness of the TdM. The TdM thereupon became J's deck of choice, and it eventually led him to Camoin and the creation of the Camoin-Jodorowsky deck.

J. is concerned with understanding, not with just “learning” the Tarot. For him, the Tarot is fundamentally self-referential: it has its own complex identity and nature. It cannot be understood simply through derivative interpretation, or the comparative study of other esoteric fields (Kabbalah, numerology, Jungian archetypes, mythology, mystical symbology, different religions, etc.). It does relate to outside references, of course, because all esoteric studies must perforce share some common received knowledge. But the mysteries of the Tarot are not a mere collage of influences, harvested or derived from other fields.

It’s clear that J. does not consign the Tarot to being a tool for a join-the-dots divinatory interpretation of a series of plates. If I've understood him correctly thus far (no easy task!), he views the Tarot cards as a book or as a majestic flowing river, a continuum of consciousness, not as a series of more or less self-contained “way stations.” The role of the individual cards is always altered by their relative position in the deck. But he sees them more like notes in a musical composition - with correspondences in tone and melody among the notes. A seamless legato effect is produced. He does not view the notes as a succession of individual plates to be fit into a mosaic or expected to complete a jigsaw puzzle. There are no deterministic concepts here, such as "past influences," "hidden influences affecting the outcome," "final outcome," etc., in the reading of individual cards.

For those of you who are trying to read Jodorowsky in Spanish or French, I believe it's well worth the effort! Congratulations for your commitment and hard work, for this book is definitely not the little explanatory manual inserted in a box of Tarot cards. With Jodorowsky’s book, the reader must do a lot of the work. Which is as it should be.

stella01904
14-03-2006, 10:27
(waves)Amazing book, isn't it? Makes me think of throwing all the others out! Did you see what he did with the whole deck?

I just want to second what you said, it's well worth the effort. Every sentence yields some pearl. My Spanish is very rudimentary, I read this book with an Engish/Spanish dictionary close by and what I can't find there, I ask someone - by phone, by email, I've even walked outside and asked neighbors and people passing by. That sounds very tedious, I know, but the book is so good, that I've enjoyed every minute. And as an added benefit, my Spanish is improving, lol! :D

I recommend ANYONE who is waiting for the book to come out in English (which may never happen, BTW) to JUST GET THE THING! :smoker:
BB, Stella

Rusty Neon
14-03-2006, 10:30
stella ... your account is inspiring. Those with rudimentary Spanish or rudimentary French, Jodo's book (a good Tarot de Marseille resource) beckons.

Irminsul
14-03-2006, 22:42
(waves) My Spanish is very rudimentary, I read this book with an Engish/Spanish dictionary close by and what I can't find there, I ask someone - by phone, by email, I've even walked outside and asked neighbors and people passing by. That sounds very tedious, I know, but the book is so good, that I've enjoyed every minute. And as an added benefit, my Spanish is improving, lol! :D


Inspiring indeed, and commendable! You have the true spirit of the adept. I am rated as S/5-R/5 in Spanish (Educated Native Speaker level), and studied and later taught Spanish and Latin American literature at the graduate level. And I did not find the book easy to read at all. Some of Jodo's concepts are abstract and he draws heavily from a wealth of esoteric, philosophical and psychological references that are sophisticated indeed. Lucky for you that he included all those picture plates!, lol. I salute you, Stella.

ArcanoMáximo
14-03-2006, 23:00
I have read this book in Spanish very good because as you can see i'm Uruguayan and Spanish is my mother lenguaje, but even when i think is a very good one, saying many revolutionary things about the Marseille, i don't agree with all Jodo's visions.
For example: the order of the Cortesan cards, being the Knight over the King? hmmm... and many more with which i can't agree at all, but for sure is a very good book and as Tarot Reader i think IT MUST must be read.

Sophie
15-03-2006, 06:19
Wonderful book! I read it in French. I refer to it often. It's dense but very exciting.

(oh - and AM - I agree with Jodo on the Knight being above the King - 'cos I'm a revolutionary, and knights must displace kings, always ;))

stella01904
16-03-2006, 00:55
Some of Jodo's concepts are abstract and he draws heavily from a wealth of esoteric, philosophical and psychological references that are sophisticated indeed.
That's why it's so good! That's much of what makes it worth the trouble!
And thanks for the encouragement. :)
BB, Stella

PS As far as the Knight being above the King, I tend to think of the Knights as being more dynamic, more kinetic. Kind of like a chess game. So I don't see a problem with ranking the Knights higher.

ArcanoMáximo
22-03-2006, 23:36
(oh - and AM - I agree with Jodo on the Knight being above the King - 'cos I'm a revolutionary, and knights must displace kings, always ;))
hmmm...is true, some one has to change the suit, to be the bridge...the dynamic one, as Stella said...but is so hard to me don't think of this as a "going behind"...
o.k.i have to think about this...Thanks Helvi!

jmd
23-03-2006, 07:58
Presumably, a knight displacing (or replacing) the King is in his struggle to succeed to a higher position - so even according to this, the King is 'higher' than the knight... irrespective of Crowley's or Jodorowsky's views.

ArcanoMáximo
29-03-2006, 06:19
very logical, endeed...
someone with another view?
perhaps we need another thread for this topic?
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?p=751368#post751368

Rusty Neon
29-03-2006, 10:53
I thought I'd mention for the sake of completeness that Jodorowsky isn't the only Tarot de Marseille author who uses the listing order Page, Queen, King, Knight. In her 1992 book on the minor arcana of the Marseille deck, Corinne Morel also uses that same listing order.

Curiously, Tarot de Marseille author Guillaume Ugérin uses the listing order Knight, Page, Queen, King.

Sophie
30-03-2006, 04:15
Presumably, a knight displacing (or replacing) the King is in his struggle to succeed to a higher position - so even according to this, the King is 'higher' than the knight... irrespective of Crowley's or Jodorowsky's views.No, I disagree. His aim is not to replace, but to displace. He is changing the social order - he does not want to be king, he wants there to be no Kings...

(the Knight in legend serves the Queen, as a matter of fact - so really it should be QUEENS first ;))

elobos
23-04-2006, 12:55
i just wan't to say that this book is really great, the book is a true work of art by itself!
every detail of the marseille deck is explored deeply!

i'm in that part you are dicussing about the order of the page, queen, king and knight, and it makes perfect sense to me.
the knight is the one that has gathered the experience of the page, who was in the do or not to do dilema, the queen, and the king(who looks outside, he knows about other worlds and other "palos") and now he is realized, and he is taking the next step to the next "palo"(don't know the english word), the next Page, so in this manner there's a constant mutation between the palos.
from page to queen, to king to knight and to the next page and so on...

the mandala of the tarot he did is truly a live thing!

try to download jodorowsky interviews through emule, there are several videos, his movies, comic books, and so on, i recomend the interviews!
you might understand him better if you do so
ELD

ArcanoMáximo
24-04-2006, 11:04
the next step to the next "palo"(don't know the english word)
palo=suit
the suit of wands, pentacles, etc...
welcome elobos :) !!!