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sunstallion
25-03-2006, 19:22
I actually dont know anything about astrology besides little craps like signs. I cannot study anyone's chart and tell anything about anyone or forecast the future.

So, why question to the real astrologers is "Does astrology speak in symbolic language like tarot ?" I mean if you look at the chart, does it says symbolically about the entire individual or does it forecast anything symbolically in the future ?

Thanks

Fulgour
25-03-2006, 20:54
My feeling is that Astrology was never meant to be predictive,
but it was more like a nice way to find out special distinctions.

Say somebody is cranky, well you can blame it on their 'stars'
rather than make them feel that they personally are at fault~
sort of like saying, "You've got your mother's temper" or such.

Somewhere along the line the whole concept got mixed up...
if Astrology was predictive, all it could do is predict ~infinity.

dadsnook2000
26-03-2006, 06:58
Yes, Astrology uses symbols as its language. Like all symbols they have many meanings that might or might not apply in a given chart. The art of using astrology is not only in knowing the symbols and their possible breadth of meaning but in synthesizing those symbols such that only the applicable meanings are used and that the "story" they tell is helpful to the person whose chart you are reading.

As for prediction, this is easily and clearly answered. To cast a chart we need a birth time, birth place and a location. Natal charts are cast for a time that is previous to today, obviously. Since we can cast charts for the past, it is just a matter of entering the appropriate information so as to cast a chart for the future. As someone who has practiced astrology for some 35 years and who also specializes in predictive astrology, I would say the answer is a resounding YES to astrology's capability to see into the future.

In the Planet Series we have looked at many examples of natal chart meanings AND we have looked at some cyclic processes relative to what is going on now, very soon, and even next year. How do you define PREDICTION? If I look at a chart for a period after someone is born, say three years later or seven years later, is that prediction? What about today, or tomorrow -- is that prediction. Are those examples much different from looking a someones chart(s) for 2010? I think not. This is one of the issues that seperates Astrology from Tarot -- Astrology is reasonably good at looking ahead for both what can happen and when it can happen. Dave

The_Star
26-03-2006, 07:18
I actually dont know anything about astrology besides little craps like signs. I cannot study anyone's chart and tell anything about anyone or forecast the future.

So, why question to the real astrologers is "Does astrology speak in symbolic language like tarot ?" I mean if you look at the chart, does it says symbolically about the entire individual or does it forecast anything symbolically in the future ?

Thanks

Astrology uses astrological symbols as a type of shorthand. Many of the astrological symbols also are picto-graphs. For instance, the symbol of Venus is a circle on top of a cross. The symbol For Venus (as described) indicates that the spirit (the circle) has transcended (somewhat) matter (a cross or plus is an ancient symbol of matter) and exercises a level of mastery over matter by the power of love and esthetics.
However, the symbols (like letters or words) are representations of concepts and ideas and archetypes. It's kind of like looking at a traffic light. It is a sign (symbol) which represents an instruction (stop or go). However, the association (what the symbol means) must first be learned in order to know what the symbol represents.
The astrological chart is the 'wiring diagram' of the psyche. The chart is very revealing to a skilled astrologer. Yes, the chart can reveal possible future situations for which an accomplished astrologer can offer advice (e.g. now is not the best time for so-in-so or this is a good time for re-working your term paper, etc.). It can be, kind of like, knowing that it is going to rain so you know what to take with you on that day.

Fulgour
27-03-2006, 12:23
This is one of the issues that seperates Astrology from Tarot -- Astrology is reasonably good at looking ahead for both what can happen and when it can happen.A book of Astrology is no better than a pack of Tarots
if nobody is there to read them with thoughtful caring.
A reader is a human being, not a computer program. :)

dadsnook2000
27-03-2006, 12:46
I'm not sure what your last post meant? Who reads computer printed reports. If you've followed any of my threads like the Planet Series or other posting you'll know that I read charts, pretty well, too. I also read Tarot cards pretty well. To me, looking at a chart or a layout of cards is a reading. So, if you can clarify your last post I'll try to answer. Dave

Fulgour
28-03-2006, 02:25
I was thinking of the question:

Does astrology speak in symbolic language?

For better or worse computers are a part of astrology.
There's no getting around it unless you go outside and
look to see what is there now...or reading what others
have thought ~ but how does that "speak" to us now?

A language of symbols is heard by us, within ourselves,
resonating to the ideas and 'feelings' of our own views.

serenaserendipity
28-03-2006, 02:57
in some of the books by the theosophists, they explain astrology's significance as thus-- certain zodiac signs begin to represent certain fixed energies which spirits in the astral plane navigate and "choose" for their moment of entry into this earthly plane--

i have sometimes wondered, if this is true, then what does that mean for cesearean births?

i think astrology does really well at explaining why certain periods of life might feel particularly difficult or lucky... it explains those circumstances which are out of one's hands, combined with the celestial energies which might influence a person to be grouchy or placid, take-charge or romantic...


it definitely still has room for free will, just as tarot does...

i do not think all feelings or tendancies a person has to be only responses to external circumstances-- some are a response to innate energies and some according to astrology are those innate energies as reflected by cosmic energies

but it also has to do with the superimposition of mythology onto celestial bodies-- what mars does as a planet is one thing, what mars means in mythology is another, and how it affects one's astrological chart is a synthesis of these things as well as a psychological view point

anyhow that's my two cents

sincerely---

dadsnook2000
28-03-2006, 04:57
Well, we start of by constructing a chart by hand (I still do some charts that way) or use a computer-generated chart (I use these most often) and then we look at the chart. What do we see? A circle that represents life's many circumstances, planetary symbols, sign symbols, and aspectual relationships. We may include and consider a variety of other symbol placements as well.

The mind probably doesn't grasp the whole meaning of this visual complexity that the chart presents. We may have some impressions at first, but we most likely (all of us, most of us) have to deliberately pick out specific symbols within the whole symbol-complex and bring forth a picture-fragment -- then more picture-fragments. As we do this, a process of synthesis starts to occur and we weed out somethings from our primary focus and blend in other things.

At this point, I think it is fair to pause and ask, "Are we dealing with symbols or are we dealing with an "assembly process" of discrete (symbolic) meanings?" Do we differentiate between seeing "a symbol" and its associative meanings and seeing many symbols or do we cross a line and assemble the derived set of meanings (from the earlier-perceived symbols) into a large whole.

Does astrology speak in symbolic language? you ask. Perhaps at some stages of the chart analysis process it does. At other points it doesn't seem to. Then we go back and forth between the level where we see and understand the individual symbols and the level where we assemble and then "weigh" the meanings we have taken from those symbols. Its quite a multi-level process. When we later start to consider time-lines, transits and the questions that the querent's raise, I think we may involve a very-complex process that includes far more than "astrology" as we consider implied and actual cultural and enviornmental issues.

There is little of a defined boundary between astrology, ourselves, our world once we start working with the chart. No wonder some call this an art form and not a science. Dave