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dadsnook2000
31-03-2006, 11:34
Mars has a well defined role in the symbology of our western-world culture: The God of War, Anger, Force of Will, Phystical Outrage, Agression, Heat, Energy, Striving thru Physical Actions -- all of these and more. On the other hand, Venus has a completely different set of symbol-images and accepted attributes: Love, Softness, Harmony and Balance, Acquisitiveness, Love of the Arts, Beauty, Tenderness -- all of these and more. Put these two symbols together and people narrow the wide list of associate words to one -- sex.

Clearly there is a lot of meaning for each of these planets and also for these two planets together. One word that sometimes applies to this pair is "poise." Self-assuredness, sensuality and one's comfort in it, seeking/collecting artwork, creation, building, physicall togetherness and bonding -- these can also be very representative of this pair.

Earlier we had covered the Sun-Moon Relationships and Saturn-Moon relationships. Sun-Moon phases are one of six keys that I will be covering, a key that portrays our balance between ego, will, health, vitality on one hand and responsiveness, habits, emotional levels and expression of basic needs on the other hand -- or, to put it more compactly, our basic personality. Saturn-Moon phase relationships looked at our conditioning, family heritage and baggage that we may still be carrying, habits and complexes that may hinder our free expression -- or, in short, family and social conditioning.

With Mars and Venus in phase relationships we look at a third key to quickly and easily assessing an astrological chart: Sensuality and self-expression.

PERFORMER PHASE:
Mars and Venus, Venus 0 to 45 degrees ahead of Mars. Here Venus and Mars join up in a passionate pursuit of one's values. Acting without thinking, grabbing on impulse, physical expression for the sheer joy of being and living, acting out one's feelings. This phase might conjure up images of the un-zipped playboy, the Energizer Bunny (seen often in US TV advertising for a brand of batteries that are long lasting), Casnaova, the Three Musketeer's, the Kissing Bandit, one who loves physical exercise, a mad painter in a Paris loft, etc. I've heard of this phase being called "bedroom eyes".

If one thinks of Mars in one sign and Venus in the next sign, the image is that Venus has experiences that Mars does not yet have, and Venus beckons to Mars with a promise of new challenges. Mars is always up to a challenge, so who runs the show here?

WORKER PHASE:
Venus is 45 to 90 degrees ahead of Mars. With some distance from Mars, Venus has a creative push, a need to just "feel" and be imersed in a fully sensual/sensate mood. Where past conventions contradict these feelings, then those past conventions and rules are dropped or rejected. This is the phase where Mars and Venus are like partners in crime, they don't know each other well, but they are both going places together.


ACTIVIST PHASE:
Venus is 90 to 135 degrees ahead of Mars. Mad Magazine's Alfred E. Neuman always used to say, "What, me worry?!" This phase is something like that for Mars-Venus, "Do now, worry later." Venus is really way ahead of Mars in this phase, and loves to play the role of Flirt and Temptress. Do you smell the roses at the Florist Shop or do you just take them all? I have always felt that there was a sort of "overkill" at work in this phase, sort of like a bull in a china shop, or rough and ready way of living life.

ANALYST PHASE:
Venus is now 135 to 180 degrees ahead of Mars. By now, both Mars and Venus know how the other acts, but both have little experience in controlling themselves or each other. Aware of this, both become a bit tentative in their expression. Experience is sought, but there seems to be a sense of not having prior experience or confidence in prior experiences -- hence the tentative use of Mars-Venus energies in this phase.

How might this phase work out? Mars puts his best foot forward, then remembers he forgot to polish his shoe. Venus sees, likes, takes and then discovers a lack of strength in carrying something off. One decides to ask for a date and ends up shaking his date's hand instead of giving her the flowers. A lack of confidence, going slow, being awkward might be some expressions. On the other hand Mars-Venus can be awkward or uncoordinated in little ways like picking the wrong combination of colors to wear, making little social gaffs, etc. I guess its best to just say that this can be a tough phase for this pair of planets.

SEEKER PHASE:
Venus has reached/passed the 180 degrees mark ahead of Mars, and is somewhere between 180 and 225 degrees ahead. Whatever difficulties there are between Mars and Venus, they are out in the open here. Conflicts between the manner and the means exist. Experiences are more of the "crises" type. Mars and Venus are as distant from each other as they might ever be. Each is seeking recognition, seeking to not give anything to the other. There is an attraction here, no doubt about it. But whose party will the other favor? "Love to fight, fight to love."

BELIEVER PHASE:
Venus is 225 to 270 degrees ahead of Mars. There are two sides to how this phase works out: Either one is an imitator of others, or one is truly creative. Remember that I have referred to this as the "honest man" phase. Here, it is not so much as Mars-Venus being honest, but is there a true honesty to expressing Mars and Venus in a harmonious way? One either truly lives their Mars-Venus symbology or one imitates and copies a role model. Which?

This phase brings us to the point where we truly develop poise and a strong sense of self and how to get what one wants -- or we do as others do, or seem to do, and learn by copying. Both approaches teach us something but only the "truly being oneself" gives us confidence and vision. Luckily, this cycle between Mars and Venus is relatively quick and we keep getting new chances to succeed.

CHANGER PHASE:
Here, with Venus 270 to 315 degrees ahead of Mars, we find a conflict between desires and values. These varuiys conflicts seem to have a wide influence on others by changing things big time. By now, you should be getting the idea that nothing comes easy between this pair of planets. By now, you should also be getting the idea that the earlier-given keywords need to be changed.

This conflict between desires and values can be positive. Changes can lead to better situations. How can this all work out positively. I think that the answer is not wholely found in this pair of planets. Mars and Venus are like two kids playing at life. The Sun-Moon and Saturn-Moon patterns will likely give us a clue as to the maturity levels of Mars & Venus or that can affect how Mars & Venus are allowed to work. I don't think I've seen too many clearly mature relationships between these two. The feedback from the list will tell us if this is true or not.

PRHOPHET PHASE:
Venus has almost completed its cycle, reaching a point of 315 degrees or more ahead of Mars. Venus is now developing an attraction for things that can't yet be easily defined. Values are changing. How one secures those values is also changing. There may be a sense that Mars and Venus could be better used, love could be more passionate, being more available to others could have been a richer experience, that confidence in ones abilities and force of creation could have led to better results. Perhaps one has a sense of wishing the next cycle had already started

Final comments:
By themselves, Mars and Venus are easier to understand. As a pair, they play a key role in how forceful and how well we express our love, creativity, sense of self-confidence, poise under stress, ability to learn from mimicing others, the manner in which our actions and values can influence others. I find that these two are hard to describe -- that because each of these planets is so personal in their nature. They have a wide range of possible expressions. Perhaps we can learn from each other. Dave

prudence
31-03-2006, 13:37
PRHOPHET PHASE:
Venus has almost completed its cycle, reaching a point of 315 degrees or more ahead of Mars. Venus is now developing an attraction for things that can't yet be easily defined. Values are changing. How one secures those values is also changing. There may be a sense that Mars and Venus could be better used, love could be more passionate, being more available to others could have been a richer experience, that confidence in ones abilities and force of creation could have led to better results. Perhaps one has a sense of wishing the next cycle had already started

Final comments:
By themselves, Mars and Venus are easier to understand. As a pair, they play a key role in how forceful and how well we express our love, creativity, sense of self-confidence, poise under stress, ability to learn from mimicing others, the manner in which our actions and values can influence others. I find that these two are hard to describe -- that because each of these planets is so personal in their nature. They have a wide range of possible expressions. Perhaps we can learn from each other. Dave

I think I did the calculations correctly, I got 318 degrees ahead. I am not sure I understand this, in relation to sensuality. "an attraction for things that can't yet be easily defined"....I am not sure how this paragraph fits, for me. Maybe this is due to being close to the phase before.

huredriel
31-03-2006, 20:26
PERFORMER PHASE:
Mars and Venus, Venus 0 to 45 degrees ahead of Mars. Here Venus and Mars join up in a passionate pursuit of one's values. Acting without thinking, grabbing on impulse, physical expression for the sheer joy of being and living, acting out one's feelings. This phase might conjure up images of the un-zipped playboy, the Energizer Bunny (seen often in US TV advertising for a brand of batteries that are long lasting), Casnaova, the Three Musketeer's, the Kissing Bandit, one who loves physical exercise, a mad painter in a Paris loft, etc. I've heard of this phase being called "bedroom eyes".

If one thinks of Mars in one sign and Venus in the next sign, the image is that Venus has experiences that Mars does not yet have, and Venus beckons to Mars with a promise of new challenges. Mars is always up to a challenge, so who runs the show here?

Well if I've worked it out correctly, my Venus (Virgo) is about 35 degrees ahead of my Mars (Leo). Definitely act without thinking LOL .... engage mouth before brain :D ... wouldn't say I *love* exercise ..... but have been known to get obsessive about it (OK 11 and a half years training hard'ish etc) ..... but now slob out a lot :D .... hmmm *bedroom eyes* .... dunno bout that. Take it that the obsessive bit is down to Venus being in Virgo?

OK being extremely daring and adventurous here :D .... but did a check at astro for natal, progressed and solar arc .... I can actually see and recognise the sign for sextile now *woo hoo* ..... anyways .... natal no aspect between the two, solar arc, no aspect between the two .... but progressed at today's date ....... there is a sextile of - 00-03-27a ... and they have moved ahead to Venus in Libra and Mars in Virgo ..... so am estimating that the distance between the two is 57 degrees ?? which means I have moved from natal performer phase to worker phase?

WORKER PHASE:
Venus is 45 to 90 degrees ahead of Mars. With some distance from Mars, Venus has a creative push, a need to just "feel" and be imersed in a fully sensual/sensate mood. Where past conventions contradict these feelings, then those past conventions and rules are dropped or rejected. This is the phase where Mars and Venus are like partners in crime, they don't know each other well, but they are both going places together.
And this I would take to be the healing of old issues/childhood stuff that I am trying to achieve ..... to be *feel* ... to break (drop?) what is no longer needed?

Am I on the right track .... or just trying to absorb too much too soon :eek:

Oh and in solar arc chart .... there is only 34 degrees between the two ... so still in performer phase? OK now my head is spinning!

dadsnook2000
31-03-2006, 22:08
For huredriel,
You are indeed approaching the use of phase relationships appropriately. They give us clues in any type of chart we use. Your observation about Venus in Virgo is quite exact -- I've seen this in many charts and this placement almost always affects Venus in a less than optimal way. A friend of my wife has this placement -- she is so demanding and precise about this portion of her personality that she keeps driving friends and lovers away, her most persistant boyfriend now keeps his house up and functional even when he moves in with her. She keeps throwing him out over one detail or another. At the other end of the scale I have a dear friend who just likes everything to be perfect and won't accept anything less -- yet she makes no demands of others, just of herself. So, perhaps, these two women define the ends of the Mars-Venus scale of experience in this phase.

The Solar Arc progression chart will always have aspects identical to the natal chart because everything moves at the same rate. In this type of chart, we need to consider only the relationships that occur between natal and solar arc planets. These seem to describe current themes in our life quite well.

Secondary Progressions due show shifts in the aspects of progressed planets, and indicate the trends and changes in our growth and development. So, the WORKER phase meanings would be appropriate from now on in your chart. This is a clean-up time in your life -- from now on you will be redefining how you choose to use these energies. Will you be successful? Thats another big question and may be partially dependent upon the Sun-Moon development and maybe the Saturn-Moon development if child-hood conditioning is also a part of what you are working thru. The secondary progressed chart is also very useful in seeing how you are now empowered in dealing with those issues.

For Astrid O
". . . sensuality. "an attraction for things that can't yet be easily defined." This sensuality needs to be taken in a broad and comprehensive way. This is how we enjoy our lifestyle -- the type and feel of clothes on our body, the mood and warmth/comfort of our home, the enjoyment we take in our daily eating and food consumption, our enjoyment of our collections and furniture and other things that make up our daily liveing/working environment. In this phase we start to realize that what we have surrounded ourselves with may not be exactly what we want. Where does this feeling come from? It comes from inside us. We are always experiencing new things and people-relationships and these slowly bring changes within us. This Mars and Venus phase represents the process where these changes start to rise into our consciousness. As we become more aware of this, we realize that we need to make adjustments in how we reach out to others, what we project with our lifestyle and manner -- and how we might better utilize that projection for everyone's mutual benefit. We don't know yet how this will all work out but we have to be accepting of the fact that change is needed.

In a secondary progressed chart, if we were to move from this phase into the performer phase at some point in our life, we would just start being impulsive and and more "acting out" of our Mars-Venus energies.

For some of us, Mars and Venus may be partially influenced by the Sun-Moon relationship and even the Saturn-Moon relationship. As personal planets, Mars and Venus are not often the "whole us" but serve as the most conscious portion of ourselves that rides upon our Sun-Moon personality and is shaped by the way we were raised as children.

Thanks to both of you for sharing. Dave

prudence
01-04-2006, 00:47
For Astrid O
". . . sensuality. "an attraction for things that can't yet be easily defined." This sensuality needs to be taken in a broad and comprehensive way. This is how we enjoy our lifestyle -- the type and feel of clothes on our body, the mood and warmth/comfort of our home, the enjoyment we take in our daily eating and food consumption, our enjoyment of our collections and furniture and other things that make up our daily liveing/working environment. In this phase we start to realize that what we have surrounded ourselves with may not be exactly what we want. Where does this feeling come from? It comes from inside us. We are always experiencing new things and people-relationships and these slowly bring changes within us. This Mars and Venus phase represents the process where these changes start to rise into our consciousness. As we become more aware of this, we realize that we need to make adjustments in how we reach out to others, what we project with our lifestyle and manner -- and how we might better utilize that projection for everyone's mutual benefit. We don't know yet how this will all work out but we have to be accepting of the fact that change is needed.

In a secondary progressed chart, if we were to move from this phase into the performer phase at some point in our life, we would just start being impulsive and and more "acting out" of our Mars-Venus energies.

For some of us, Mars and Venus may be partially influenced by the Sun-Moon relationship and even the Saturn-Moon relationship. As personal planets, Mars and Venus are not often the "whole us" but serve as the most conscious portion of ourselves that rides upon our Sun-Moon personality and is shaped by the way we were raised as children.

Thanks to both of you for sharing. Dave

Thank you, Dave, for clarifying this. It does make much more sense to me now. (especially the progressed part) This must be where that feeling "the grass is always greener..." comes from!

More specifically, I do feel at the moment that the way I am living isn't the best way for me, and my nature. I have come to realize that my sensitive nature needs to be taken into account, which I really haven't done for most of my life. (lived in Boston for 2 years, very stressed out) Way too sensitive for crowds etc, traffic ugh. But generally speaking, I did thrust myself into those situations for the better part of my life, and didn't really understand that it just wasn't for me.

In my younger years, I was very impulsive, and did act out, somewhat. With my venus in 12th house, this may have played out with drinking/drugs, and I did have a relationship (1st major one) in which my BF was heavily into certain things, then I became his caretaker etc...and experimented while with him. But, on that note, I must say that my experiences with experimenting usually had a huge effect on me, like it would be the worst possible trip or whatever. Silly suburban kids messing with what amounts to powerful shamanic drugs, usually ended up with me having a most horrific time.

But sexually, I was quite tame, and didn't really go off into impulsivity or any of that. Always had a steady partner.

You mentioned that Venus has experiences that Mars hasn't yet, in my case, with venus so far ahead, how does that play out? In a case with someone whose Venus and Mars are very close, I wonder how this plays out as well.

Thanks again, Dave.

and huredriel, nice work!:thumbsup:

isthmus nekoi
01-04-2006, 02:24
Hey Astrid - we have another similarity :) I also have the same Mars-Venus phase, which is the same one as my sun-moon.

I definitely have different values than the ones I was raised with. When I was younger, I had much less choice in terms of who I could associate with. Everyone was pretty much from the same socioeconomic class, very priviledged and what one collected and cultivated was very bourgeois - our manners, our interests etc. Rather BORING if you ask me. This has changed of course since I moved out, and my social circle has become very diversified. Not that I've rejected everything from my childhood. I still love fine dining, going to the symphony etc. But in comparison to the rest of my family, I'm the most uncouth.

I don't think that I've ever surrounded myself with things I don't want though. It feels more strongly like I was restricted as a child, and now that I'm not, I've picked a different environment for myself. In fact, I tend not to surround myself with much stuff at all. I don't like buying things, collecting things (other than stuff like groceries, electricity etc). It's also the Sag planets - if I'm on the move, whatever doesn't fit into the hatchback is jettisoned!

I was never really so impulsive either when I was younger, I think b/c of the strong Saturn contacts. I made it a point as a teen never to do anything for the sake of pissing my parents off. It was more important to discover what I really wanted, rather than reacting against someone else's desires. However, you might want to ask my parents, they might have a different pov lol!

star-lover
01-04-2006, 02:43
ACTIVIST PHASE:
Venus is 90 to 135 degrees ahead of Mars. Mad Magazine's Alfred E. Neuman always used to say, "What, me worry?!" This phase is something like that for Mars-Venus, "Do now, worry later." Venus is really way ahead of Mars in this phase, and loves to play the role of Flirt and Temptress. Do you smell the roses at the Florist Shop or do you just take them all? I have always felt that there was a sort of "overkill" at work in this phase, sort of like a bull in a china shop, or rough and ready way of living life.

------------------
esp
I have always felt that there was a sort of "overkill" at work in this phase, sort of like a bull in a china shop, or rough and ready way of living life.
----------
yup can identify with that - bit of greed/gluttony/impatience and like if tomorrow comes feeling/attitude (partly due to last degree of a sign being more intense i have read like times running out) - throw all to wind alot and it always seems to work itself out - definitely a flirt and temptress - thats what half the fun is about - no doubt lol

dadsnook2000
01-04-2006, 05:37
For Astrid O
"You mentioned that Venus has experiences that Mars hasn't yet, in my case, with venus so far ahead, how does that play out?"

Well, thats simple. Just look at Venus all by itself without Mars, and look also at any aspects Venus might make and what house it is in. That tells you what Venus is doing that Mars doesn't play a strong role in.

"In a case with someone whose Venus and Mars are very close, I wonder how this plays out as well."

Just as simple, but different. You have to look at Mars and Venus as if they were conjunct, then look at the house they are in. This tells you what the pair of them are up to. Astrology is simple, there doesn't need to be great complexity about it. The people who initially engage in studying the stars as they relate to human experience had no guidelines. They kept things conceptually simple. It was only thousands of years later that people added complexity to better match their increasingly complex lives.

For isthmus nekoi
It seems that you sort of reversed things, but not really. What we appreciate does not have to address just what we have -- the flip side is that we can also understand what we don't want. "Give a kid their only toy and they will love it. Give the kid five toys and they will like them. Give the kid lots and lots of toys and they will be bored." Same with Venus -- it know what it likes, and in this case, what it didn't like. This observation of yours adds a nice understanding for this phase where one "lets go of what isn't needed."


For star lover
I'm glad you found some confirmation in this phase meaning. It makes it so much easier to understand our charts and the patterns and experiences of others when we see personal examples.

Dave

squeakmo9
01-04-2006, 07:57
If I’m correct…In reference to my Venus in relation to my Mars, natally I believe I’m in Believer Phase:

BELIEVER PHASE:
Venus is 225 to 270 degrees ahead of Mars. There are two sides to how this phase works out: Either one is an imitator of others, or one is truly creative. Remember that I have referred to this as the "honest man" phase. Here, it is not so much as Mars-Venus being honest, but is there a true honesty to expressing Mars and Venus in a harmonious way? One either truly lives their Mars-Venus symbology or one imitates and copies a role model. Which?

This phase brings us to the point where we truly develop poise and a strong sense of self and how to get what one wants -- or we do as others do, or seem to do, and learn by copying. Both approaches teach us something but only the "truly being oneself" gives us confidence and vision. Luckily, this cycle between Mars and Venus is relatively quick and we keep getting new chances to succeed.

I think the greater most of me has been garnered through imitation, including my “poise”. I had to put some thought into this because so many years have passed that I forgot how I got here. But the above would be correct. But I think I imitated because I didn’t really feel I had a strong sense of self, almost a feeling of intoxication, where self awareness is somewhat skewed. Do I feel a strong sense of self now…not really. Perhaps this is why I find it relatively easy to meld into a group/crowd and probably where some of my resentment lies as well.

My progressed Venus is in Leo 11 degrees to progressed Mars in Libra 17 degrees:
CHANGER PHASE:
Here, with Venus 270 to 315 degrees ahead of Mars, we find a conflict between desires and values. These varuiys conflicts seem to have a wide influence on others by changing things big time. By now, you should be getting the idea that nothing comes easy between this pair of planets. By now, you should also be getting the idea that the earlier-given keywords need to be changed.

This conflict between desires and values can be positive. Changes can lead to better situations. How can this all work out positively. I think that the answer is not wholely found in this pair of planets. Mars and Venus are like two kids playing at life. The Sun-Moon and Saturn-Moon patterns will likely give us a clue as to the maturity levels of Mars & Venus or that can affect how Mars & Venus are allowed to work. I don't think I've seen too many clearly mature relationships between these two. The feedback from the list will tell us if this is true or not.

I can identify with the above, in the past what I have wanted has had little to no reflection on what I valued in myself. So from a staring point, not valuing myself has led me to some harsh realities when entering into any kind of intimate situation. I have felt more like wanting to live in Performer phase, or having done so and then being punished for it, so to speak. I feel at times that I’m on “lockdown”, imprisoned. Wrong to say but this is how I have felt. I suppose this does not lead one to think that my Mars and Venus are mature at all but feel as if both are being forced to attend reformatory school.


Maturity Levels….If I’m still on track…My progressed Moon is in Libra 23 degrees and about 195 degrees ahead of my Saturn…
SEEKER PHASE
The Moon in this phase is 180 to 225 degrees ahead of Saturn. Here, the Moon finds that it can't escape Saturn's strings. Saturn can't be thrown away! But one can learn from the school of hard knocks and can, indeed, remake oneself as long as you can accept the tensions of the past always needing to be dealt with.

So, the Moon finds itself reflecting Saturn's influences and is still dependent upon dealing with an old image. Moon can, however, change with some agility and Saturn perhaps only catches up with the Moon on occassion. So, does the Moon achieve its new identity or does it have to accept an acting role that still has to honor it past teacher?

I get the idea that my Mars/Venus needs to learn some serious lessons, new lessons. The old ways don’t seem to be working out anymore and my life has a way of QUICKLY letting me know when I have drawn outside of the lines. So I do feel that I walk a very narrow path but keep reminding myself it’s for a definite purpose. I think I need to forego immediate satisfaction for long-term betterment of some sort.

dadsnook2000
01-04-2006, 08:34
squeakmo9, its OK and probably the best thing to do in that the long-term needs to be honored. The problem is that life is short, so don't make too many long-term plans and slow-advancement. Try to break up your "goals for self improvement" into little packages that can be achieved sooner, some later, and see if life can be fun as well as serious. Mars and Venus have a short cycle, why not make plans to follow and experience a whole cycle? Keep a journal or diary, log your experiences relative to the transiting phases of this pair, as well as the progressed and natal phases for this pair. Dave

squeakmo9
01-04-2006, 09:00
squeakmo9, its OK and probably the best thing to do in that the long-term needs to be honored. The problem is that life is short, so don't make too many long-term plans and slow-advancement. Try to break up your "goals for self improvement" into little packages that can be achieved sooner, some later, and see if life can be fun as well as serious. Mars and Venus have a short cycle, why not make plans to follow and experience a whole cycle? Keep a journal or diary, log your experiences relative to the transiting phases of this pair, as well as the progressed and natal phases for this pair. Dave

Thank you Dave for making me see the big picture...funny I have a tarot journal, a dream journal, but never thought of the transits...excellent idea...much appreciated-
Squeakmo9

stardancer
02-04-2006, 07:02
SEEKER PHASE:
Venus has reached/passed the 180 degrees mark ahead of Mars, and is somewhere between 180 and 225 degrees ahead. Whatever difficulties there are between Mars and Venus, they are out in the open here. Conflicts between the manner and the means exist. Experiences are more of the "crises" type. Mars and Venus are as distant from each other as they might ever be. Each is seeking recognition, seeking to not give anything to the other. There is an attraction here, no doubt about it. But whose party will the other favor? "Love to fight, fight to love."




That's me. Mars and Venus in opposition, Venus passed Mars. Fruit and bubbles vs. fire and swords. Anything for love. Well... not any thing, but there must be passion with the affection. Sometimes the lower form takes over and it's fight and make up. Sometimes it's devine and the challenge is a shared passion for something or other. Like getting excited over a good movie and sharing the emotions.

dadsnook2000
02-04-2006, 08:09
That's the Mars-Venus opposition and Seeker phase -- an ebb and flow, both the "partnering" and the "enemies" meanings of this opposition-based pattern. It just goes to show that symbols seek to express themselves in many, many ways. This is perhaps what makes it difficult for early-studies students, which expression or few expressions to focus on.

And that, in turn, is where astrology goes from a formula-calculation-database approach (like a cook book or report writer) to an artform or higher-skill-and- experience level such as the way an astrologer does it.

I like the ways you describe your experiences of this pattern. Thanks. Dave

Crystelle
02-04-2006, 08:35
I believe that my venus is about 124.18 degress ahead of my mars. That would put me in the

ACTIVIST PHASE:
Venus is 90 to 135 degrees ahead of Mars. Mad Magazine's Alfred E. Neuman always used to say, "What, me worry?!" This phase is something like that for Mars-Venus, "Do now, worry later." Venus is really way ahead of Mars in this phase, and loves to play the role of Flirt and Temptress. Do you smell the roses at the Florist Shop or do you just take them all? I have always felt that there was a sort of "overkill" at work in this phase, sort of like a bull in a china shop, or rough and ready way of living life.

Hmmm... well temptress is very accurate. I think also that there is a fair amount of interplay with my sun-moon relationship. When I am out, I am very flirtatious. I love to play it up and I wind up most nights center-stage (nothing less for a moon in Leo). However, in most of my love relationships I must admit that I am impulsive and flightly, I am hard to tie down for those that want to, and then when I want to settle down, I find that I try to do it in all the wrong ways. I am somewhat "known" in my particular circle of friends as someone that shares her affections too readily. I enjoy sex, I think that it can be very fun and I have shrugged off that double standard that says boys can and girls can't -- my answer? "SAYS WHO?!" I do want a meaningful relationship, I just am realistic, not everyone you fall in the hay with is going to want to get married!

Of course that's just me -- you be you, and I'll be me, hurt no one and it's no one's business. My credo. ;)

stardancer
02-04-2006, 09:03
That's the Mars-Venus opposition and Seeker phase -- an ebb and flow, both the "partnering" and the "enemies" meanings of this opposition-based pattern.

LOL. It feels a little skewed when things are peaceful for too long. Never let it be said a partner shouldn't also be a bit of an enemy. It's said that unless you have evil, you would never know what good is. It's the same concept in love. You never appreciate one side unless you have the other to compare it to. Personally, I think it's a Myer's-Briggs test thing; way too much sensation seeking.

You're welcome.

prudence
03-04-2006, 12:48
For Astrid O
"You mentioned that Venus has experiences that Mars hasn't yet, in my case, with venus so far ahead, how does that play out?"

Well, thats simple. Just look at Venus all by itself without Mars, and look also at any aspects Venus might make and what house it is in. That tells you what Venus is doing that Mars doesn't play a strong role in.

"In a case with someone whose Venus and Mars are very close, I wonder how this plays out as well."

Just as simple, but different. You have to look at Mars and Venus as if they were conjunct, then look at the house they are in. This tells you what the pair of them are up to. Astrology is simple, there doesn't need to be great complexity about it. The people who initially engage in studying the stars as they relate to human experience had no guidelines. They kept things conceptually simple. It was only thousands of years later that people added complexity to better match their increasingly complex lives.


Dave

Thanks Dave. This is a help. So, perhaps my Venus being in 12th house, led to my explorations, which were very 12th house-ish, but without the "protection" of my mars I was left feeling more scared than elated?

My Venus (at 7 deg. Pis. 12th house) seems to be fairly busy with aspects; trines my Jupiter (at 5 deg. scorp, 8th house), sextile with my saturn (at 4 deg. Tau, 2nd House), and it's conj my Sun (at 00 deg. Pis. 12th house). There are a couple of other ones that don't seem notable. (unless a square to Neptune is important? Nep is at 0 deg. Sag, 9th house)

dadsnook2000
03-04-2006, 13:06
That 12th house is really quite strange -- for the individual its a "secret" place in many cases, yet because its above the horizon its often in full view of the rest of the world. Its like living in a glass house, the privacy is illusionary.

While the secrets themselves can't be seen, the results of them can be. Its like looking through a glass but only seeing the shadow of whats inside.

Yes, your Venus is the "complex" agent here. With those aspects there are a lot of ways for the symbols to be expressed -- Jupiter doesn't always work well with Venus, Venus is personal and Jupiter is social and sometimes social benefits are at odds with personal benefits. Venus is a bit ahead of the Sun and may try to experience too much too soon. Now, Venus and Neptune can work together but may not always work for you. If we take all of the keywords -- Sun/Will, Venus/Wants, Jupiter/Gets, Neptune/Tricks -- we can get some surprising combinations, can't we? Of course we can use other words also -- Sun/Focus, Venus/Balancing, Jupiter/Helps, Neptune/Inspires -- and end up with something totally different. Its almost like a dice game. Play several rounds and everything may come up. Is there a story here? Dave

PS -- You'll note I haven't shared my story.

isthmus nekoi
04-04-2006, 04:33
For isthmus nekoi
[snip]
Same with Venus -- it know what it likes, and in this case, what it didn't like. This observation of yours adds a nice understanding for this phase where one "lets go of what isn't needed."


Yes and I think it matches the sun-moon phase relationship very well!

stardancer
05-04-2006, 16:28
PS -- You'll note I haven't shared my story.

:D ...and your story is?

dadsnook2000
05-04-2006, 22:06
When I wrote the following phase relationship definition, it was not with my own personal experience that formed the words but it was a culmulative experience as it could be recalled during my typing. In reviewing all of the responses, I often am surprised at how well the appropriate phases fit my own situation as well. I repeat here the Worker Phase definition which applies to my Mars/Venus relationship: Mars at 22 Leo, 3rd house , Venus at 12 Libra, 5th house.

Mars at 22 Leo, 3rd house has several basic meanings: An active, creative communicator and student of the environment, a writing/talking individual who feels he/she is often in a leadership position.

Venus at 12 Libra, 5th house has several basic meanings: One who seeks balance and understanding thru creative outlets, sometimes involved with children or teaching, and has a sense of empathy with others.

Both of these planets are influenced by several factors: Sun and Moon in Virgo (detail, alignment of will/ego and feelings/habits), Cancer ASC., Venus conjunct Mercury (considering all sides of every question, and all that that implies), the yod of Saturn with Mars/Venus, etc.

I repeat here the "WORKER PHASE:"
Venus is 45 to 90 degrees ahead of Mars. With some distance from Mars, Venus has a creative push, a need to just "feel" and be imersed in a fully sensual/sensate mood. Where past conventions contradict these feelings, then those past conventions and rules are dropped or rejected. This is the phase where Mars and Venus are like partners in crime, they don't know each other well, but they are both going places together.

The first sentance describes me quite well in personal terms. The second sentance is appropriate -- those who follow my postings realize that I do not follow established rules in astrology, a mind-set that applies to just about everything else in my life. Its not that I'm a rebel (that doesn't fit with Venus) but I do follow my own paths and seek a creative environment in all that I do. The third/last sentance also fits quite well. In marriage, my wife and I do share similar goals but neither of us feels they know the other very well as our natures are so dis-similar -- a hot/cold situation, an angery alliance might symbolize Mars and Venus as a pair.

With the wife having her Saturn almost exactly opposite my Venus, there is a very real and constant sense of "restriction" there. For someone who is very creative this is a real drag on my life. Add the fact of her Moon being right on my ASC degree, and you have a situation where she expects me to act on her feelings -- given the Venus opp. Saturn pattern and Mars-Venus phase, this is just not going to happen.

Now I won't go into all of life's expressions and events that could be fueled by these factors, but it does illustrate some things about the Mars/Venus Worker Phase. This pair can work together but they have very different ways of operating and very different feelings about their partnership in the chart. Venus is seperating, degree-wise, from Mars and that is symbolically important -- there is no impulse to compatibility just cooperation (a fine difference of meaning, I think). So, these are just some comments I have. And, stardancer, I don't think I'll go into any of other stories that could be taken from this overall pattern. Sorry, Dave

stardancer
06-04-2006, 05:22
Venus and Mars are looked at as the lovers of the zodiac, but in essence, they are antipathic.

Love, affection, oneness: war, competition, freedom.

Even though I have an opposition of Venus and Mars (a 'bad' thing), I don't necessrily think a Venus Mars conjunction,trine, sextile, etc., makes things positive. I just think it gives relationships an extra (sur)real push. Relationships are a given in any life, but there is more of an intensity about any relationship when Venus and Mars are in aspect. I always look at aspects as part attitude.

For example: the precious trine, imo, just lends itself to easy relationships that could lead to a player attitude.

dadsnook2000
06-04-2006, 06:37
The phrase "for better or worse" has to be a Mars-Venus thing. I think that the confirmations given to my set of phase relationships and comments do indeed show that Mars and Venus have a some what "less than fatal" attraction for each other. As I noted, they can be partners in crime (Venus wants, Mars takes ((for Venus)) and the crime is done). Trines, I have observed, often imitate "habitual" patterns, their mode of expression is one that one can fall into automatically and easily.

As our (individual) overall level of consciousness grows, some of us use these patterns as a basis for growth and development. Most planetary pairs do have an emotional component to them, or we attach one to them, and this feeling energy can be enjoyed, experienced, and used to drive us emotionally toward a use (or several uses) of that energy.

When we get to Jupiter, perhaps we can get a sidetrack discussion on Jupiter and Venus -- another pair that is commonly thought of as "good" but which has more "cold and prickelys" than "warm and fuzzys". Dave