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dadsnook2000
19-04-2006, 07:21
The very next Planet Series will be another of the key relationship studies between these two significant planets. Using Saturn as the anchor point, Jupiter's position relative to Saturn suggests a theme of how we manage our lives, our social station in life, how we strategize and conduct the business of living productively with society.

There are two things to cover before we start this thread.

First, I'm leaving for a short vacation so I'll not be doing much before the start of next week.

Second, this is a great opportunity for each of you to learn how to do phase relationships from scratch. Yup, you can each do your own without that much guidance from me. To do this you first need to figure out how far, in zodiac sequence, Jupiter is ahead of Saturn in your chart. Which of the eight 45 degree phases is that in?

Next, consider what the core meanings are for Saturn and for Jupiter. Mix those up with the the core meanings of the phase relationships. I'll review those here:
PERFORMER PHASE: Combines the two planet's core meanings in the most positive and basic way so as to best express them.
WORKER PHASE: Looks at each planet's energies in terms of changing the past, what was taught and learned earlier in life, try's to reshape the meanings of those planets in your personal life.
ACTIVIST PHASE: Often clashes one planet's meanings with the other planet's meanings by trying to hard, to often, the hard and shortest way possible.
ANALYST PHASE: Learning that the hard way is not the right way, this phase seeks to make adjustments and to refine the way the planet's core energies might be applied.
SEEKER PHASE: A struggle to balance the extremes between the two planets and find some middle ground. Often a crises in yourself or in others is the basis for better understanding and working with the two planets involved.
BELIEVER PHASE: Makes a "best effort" to express these planets productively so as to gain something of value and to lead to an understanding of what is best about these two planets.
CHANGER PHASE: Takes action to bring these planetary energies to the best use, to impact and affect others, to be a leader in some way so as to improve life around you.
PROPHET PHASE: Having succeeded in demonstrating how to work with the two planets, you are preparing for the next cycle. Giving things up, preparing to make changes and accept new conditions in your life. Seeking a vision of what is to come.

So that is the challenge as we continue our planetary explorations. Take Saturn and Jupiter in your chart and determine the life's theme that should be expressing based on the phase relationship. As an added fun-thing to do, look at where progressed or transiting Jupiter is at relative to your natal Saturn position and see if this represents an "overlay" or "sub-theme" for you. You can also look at the house positions of Saturn and Jupiter and consider what areas of your life should be involved in the expression of these planets.

See you all in six days. Dave

huredriel
19-04-2006, 07:25
Aaarrgghh talk about throwing us in the deep end!!!! Have a wonderful holiday :)

x Huredriel

dadsnook2000
19-04-2006, 10:10
huredriel, you have been doing quite well with your astrology, I'm sure this little challenge won't be so bad. We've all had so much practice and interaction before this -- I just thought this would be a good time for some of us to test ourselves. It was also a way to explain why I would be so quiet for so long. But by next Monday I'll be posting again. Leaving in the morning. Will visit Mickey for a couple of days with the kids. Or, perhaps I'm in my second childhood already. See you all. Dave

isthmus nekoi
20-04-2006, 06:49
You can think about Jupiter and Saturn in terms of their oppositional meanings. For example, Jupiter is all about expansion and warmth whereas Saturn is related to constriction and conservatism. If you're not familiar with the planets here are some links you may find helpful:

Jupiter things you may apply to this interpretation: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/jupiter_att.html
Saturn things: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/saturn_att.html

+ + +

My Jupiter is ahead by Saturn by less than a degree in Libra/8th. However, we might say the Saturn principle is stronger b/c it is exalt in Libra, and ruler of my chart. Still, this is the first phase, so the cycle is fresh and looks forward, sort of like a new moon.

Jupiter bestows a sense of abundance and luck while Saturn applies pragmatism, long term goals and structure to the situation so that Jupiter's gifts are not simply frittered away. For an 8th house example, even though I was raised in relative affluence (Jupiter), I have always been reponsible and conservative (Saturn) in terms of finance. I think I've mentioned this before, but when I was young, when I received a great deal of money (Jupiter, $$ from other sources), I would invest it instead of spending it (restricted use! Saturn, $$ into others' resources). As you can see, the Saturn principle dominates in the end but it is experienced as a positive thing.

I've often read that the conjunction b/w Saturn and Jupiter denotes a sort of start-stop relationship where Jupiter steps on the gas, Saturn on the brakes... at the same time! I can't relate to this interpretation, and don't find it applies well to other Saturn/Jupiter conj charts I've read. I think the relationship is more complicated than that.

paradoxx
20-04-2006, 09:15
perhaps its more like a manual transmission vehicle, where jupiter is the gas, and saturn is the clutch. I share a Libran conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn like Isthmus and I also have a difficult time seeing Saturn as "the brakes."

With thsi conjunction i can say that with the limited money i have, i am very careful with how i spend it, quality comes before quantity, and karma takes precidence (no relying on the all might Wal-Mart and their low prices) so that I won't be paying for all of it in spades.

In the end though, i would rather have restricted expansion than expansive restrictions, and as long as it isn't too expensive it shoudl be acceptable for the mid-term goals at least.

Paradoxx

huredriel
20-04-2006, 23:32
OK, am going to have to go through this slowly .......

Natally, taking Saturn as the anchor, I have Saturn at Aries 25-25 in House 6 (retrograde) whilst Jupiter is in Virgo at 11-57, House 10 ..... so I worked that out to be Jupiter ahead by 107 degrees, thereby (after looking at previous threads with phases) making it the ACTIVIST PHASE.

Please bear with me cos I'm not sure of the *general* meaning of an activist phase, just from what I can see with the previous threads. (Am taking it that in an activist phase, the ahead planet will basically be going off doing its own thing and expecting the anchor to eventually follow suit and play catch-up.)

So both male energies, hard, yang. Saturn gives the anchor, the daily life ..... the lessons which will play out over a long period ... Jupiter ahead brings in the general development overall ...... possibly bringing in *big* lessons or experiences, that Saturn will have to interpret, learn from and then embrace in order to grow as a result?

Progressed chart wise however ........ Saturn is at 23-33 (retrograde) Aries, but House 5 and Jupiter is at 20-04 Virgo House 9 ..... which I find interesting because of the closeness in the degrees to the natal planets but also the fact that they are both in the houses behind the natal ones!!! Anyways, this would be Jupiter ahead by 117 degrees, still in ACTIVIST PHASE. Apart from the houses, only a difference of 10 degrees from the day I was born. I'm wondering if there is any relevance to that?

Looking at the progressed chart, means that the emphasis of Jupiter has moved away from the general development of personality (?) and more into the spiritual calling and views on the world as opposed to local area whilst the anchor has shifted from daily life to more creative expression etc..... operating from a basis/viewpoint of what now brings enjoyment into one's life?

Also would say that the earth of Jupiter, especially with Saturn being retrograde ... would mean that energy to push forward would not be as hard hitting if it were direct? The earth would dampen the fire?

Having just cast a quick look at the sites that Isthmus linked in (thanks :)) ......it says that Jupiter is in detriment to Virgo (not a good thing I take it) and Saturn is in fall with Aries (not sure whether good or bad) .... so would this mean that Saturn would have a stronger effect than would normally be the case in this position? Hmmm Jupiter as expansion and warmth, but very muted (not too much fun then in 5th house) ...... Saturn moulding the experiences into the structure ..... my mind feels to be going in circles at all this!

OK think that's my contribution for this post!

squeakmo9
24-04-2006, 02:18
ACTIVIST PHASE: Often clashes one planet's meanings with the other planet's meanings by trying to hard, to often, the hard and shortest way possible.


This would be true natally and progressively speaking.
I can only interpret as needing/wanting immediate results to a variety of things. Moving too fast, spending too much and then finding myself in a deep hole. My Saturn seems to have endless patience at the predicaments I have created. Those opportunities given by my Jupiter taken to extreme. I was given an inch and took a yard...Over time I seemed to have gotten more in touch with what I really need, stripping away to the bare essentials. Moderate approaches have been late in coming but finding value in it.

huredriel
24-04-2006, 03:26
ACTIVIST PHASE: Often clashes one planet's meanings with the other planet's meanings by trying to hard, to often, the hard and shortest way possible.
AArrrgghhhhh I forgot about this bit ........ and automatically assumed we were to work it out ourselves, hence my messy post below!!!!!

dadsnook2000
28-04-2006, 06:32
Hello All, vacation is over and I'm back to a busy schedule. This week my robotics class started its next session, the Chess club starts tomorrow, I've been doing some Sidereal predictive work on another astrology site, my combined tarot-and-astrology site that I co-moderate is busy, and I've started laying 40 tons of cobble stone and wall blocks for a new parking areas and garden walls. I guess spring is here.

Now, lets look at Jupiter in phase relationship to Saturn.

JUPITER ahead of SATURN; 0 to 45 degrees. In this PERFORMER phase, you would likely demonstrate an instinct for practicality. Saturn's strong sense of duty, responsibility and caution really limits Jupiter's more excessive habit of greedy-grabbing and big-picture-ideas. This isn't so much a stop-go thing like Saturn and Mars, its more of an accomodation by both planets.

JUPITER ahead of SATURN; 45 to 90 degrees. In this WORKER phase there is a intent to reshape ones past ways and methods, to rework them into a more effective set of tools. Part of this is revisiting the "basics" of yester-year and learning the basics of today so as to make some progress in your life.

JUPITER ahead of SATURN; 90 to 135 degrees. This ACTIVIST phase is often marked by over commitment, being in a rush such that you ignore commonsense approachs to issues. Here, you tend to grab onto promises of better things, better practices, forgetting the Worker Phase tasks of taking the time to re-learn what you need to face the world. This is an impatient phase. Rushing does cause problems.

JUPTIER ahead of SATURN; 135 to 180 degrees. In the ANALYST phase one seems to slow down, to draw away from impatience, and go back to learning and modifying the tools of life. This is more of a refinement phase then the Worker phase. Here you have some knowledge and some skills, you are just putting them to practical use, attempting to be successful in work, in social exchanges.

Up to now, these four cycles have led us into experiences where we, as full individuals, have worked on all those things that allow us to be more effective in the commerce of life. This may be "business", but it can also be working effectively in group activities. It does mean that we have been maturing and improving our internal tools and physical skills so that we can better survive in the world arena -- no matter how large or small that world may be.

JUPITER ahead of SATURN; 180 to 225 degrees. The SEEKER phase brings us nose-to-nose, up-close-and-personal with life -- life at home, life at work, life in our friendships, life in shopping and recreation, life in financial terms. We take on key roles in group or larger-circle activities, attempting to make our views and voice heard, trying to get a handle on life's steering wheel. In this phase its all about succeeding at a level, one level, subsequent levels. There can be an internal report card that seems to drive us forward toward some form of achievement and recognition from others.

JUPITER ahead of SATURN; 225 to 270 degrees. As a BELIEVER, we use this phase to demonstrate we are practical, that we can sell our ideas and point to the means of achieving a goal. Enthusiasm, pleasure in doing and showing, we tend to carry others along with us.

JUPITER ahead of SATURN; 270 to 315 degrees. The CHANGER phase permits us to become more outwardly Jupiter-like while remaining inwardly Saturn-like in how we manage the world around us. Here, we initiate, we complete, we sweep away what is obsolete. We become the person-in-charge or, to be more precise, the person-in-changing-mode.

JUPITER ahead of SATURN; 315 to 360/0 degrees. The PROPHET phase may express itself a little differently with these two planets than with the other pairs we have studied. Here we experience "fail, fail, gain, originate" types of events and developments. Its like what we did and achieved unravels and comes apart, doesn't last as long or work as well. We try, we do, we prove we did it, we find that it doesn't matter too much to anyone else. Perhaps we find that we can better support someone else, that we can't any longer be the front man. This is the phase where the former executive becomes a consultant, a behind the scenes person.

I'll review the posting several of you have made while I was absent, and I'll respond to questions and personal expressions like always. Its good to be back and involved. Thanks for waiting. Dave

star-lover
28-04-2006, 20:31
got confused about how to calculate *ahead of*

my jupiter is 26 sagitarius and saturn 12 capricorn - so it seems saturn is ahead of jupiter but i may have got it the wrong way round
i dont know if this is the performer or prophet phase
the prophet phase sounds so much more like my life - so i think its that one

dadsnook2000
28-04-2006, 23:39
Your Jupiter is in the Prophet phase as it is way, way ahead of Saturn, almost having caught up with Saturn. Dave

huredriel
29-04-2006, 00:08
JUPITER ahead of SATURN; 90 to 135 degrees. This ACTIVIST phase is often marked by over commitment, being in a rush such that you ignore commonsense approachs to issues. Here, you tend to grab onto promises of better things, better practices, forgetting the Worker Phase tasks of taking the time to re-learn what you need to face the world. This is an impatient phase. Rushing does cause problems.
Well re-reading this and then what I've put earlier, I don't think I quite *got* it ..... btw, always been impatient and rushed everything Dave :D

star-lover
29-04-2006, 02:16
JUPITER ahead of SATURN; 315 to 360/0 degrees. The PROPHET phase may express itself a little differently with these two planets than with the other pairs we have studied. Here we experience "fail, fail, gain, originate" types of events and developments. Its like what we did and achieved unravels and comes apart, doesn't last as long or work as well. We try, we do, we prove we did it, we find that it doesn't matter too much to anyone else. Perhaps we find that we can better support someone else, that we can't any longer be the front man. This is the phase where the former executive becomes a consultant, a behind the scenes person.
-------------------------

my life has been cycles of success, beating the odds, winning, happiness and then right round to depression, rock bottom, giving up, my friends and family saying what the hell has happened to you???? - then couple years later all turns round again
i guess this is true for a lot of people but i feel i have succeeded in something then it all goes to pot and i never follow through and continue with it - case in point - i put myself through the open university whilest holding down a full time stressful job - i passed with flying colours and learnt alot - however i never did anything with it in the real world apart from just share what i had learnt where i could - i never made a proper career for myself in the real world - however my fears have been proved wrong because i have always been too ambitious for the best and worried/got myself down that i didnt *quite make it* whereas in fact i have put to use whatever i learnt in many different ways - so having a *career* and making lots of *money* has not happened but im hoping its happened in other less tangible ways - always never knew if i was a success or failure in life - its always a battle between the 2 - guess its also accentuated cos both planets are in their element jup in sag and sat in cap

got 2 failed crap marriages to boot

my personal self tells me i havent done too bad in my life cos ive always been a trier but in societys/families eyes sometimes i always feel kind of inferior if that makes sense
so now i dont care any more lol - just please myself but watch it case i overstep the mark

ramble over

x:)

dadsnook2000
30-04-2006, 00:09
It seems that you epitomize some of the phase relationships perfectly. How does it feel to be a living textbook? Oh, my, I know it isn't funny sometimes as we all have those segments of our lives where we have to struggle and often don't win our share of battles.

But it is amazing that we can tell so much about ourselves, astrologically, when no actual aspect is involved. This why so much of my astrological practice is built upon the use of cycles rather than static chart patterns. We are all creatures involved in the process of "becoming" and of "developing" and of "growing" and "changing." These are words asociated with cycles. Aspects, in my mind, are associated with words like "this means" and "you are" and "you will" types of expressions. Thinking in those terms changes the way we think about and use astrology. Dave

star-lover
30-04-2006, 01:29
lol thanks dave
i dont mind being an open textbook
i think your series has shown that the cycle interpretations go much much deeper and are more widly encompassing of life path/experience/lessons to be learnt than the cookbook reading aspects - which though i still find relevant and interesting but are kind of dislocated way of seeing a bigger pattern - the aspects are true on their own but can never be taken at face value cos they are all knitted together in many ways and mutated- like a yellow brick road loli guess the natal aspects are really just aspects of our core personalities which never change - but transits and cycles show bigger life patterns and experiences

M-Press
30-04-2006, 23:28
Hi there!

I sit here and read through these great threads (Thank you Dadsnook and all of you for making this happen!!!) and feel so sorry I could not be a part of it at all in the last few months... ! It was either being super busy with my book, and then my wedding! (We got married 3 weeks ago--after I finally came to my Jupiter return at 35!)

I would love to participate, although the recents changes in my life (husband+new apartment+new job) still have not reached any kind of a routine... and I'm still struggling with time and what I can fit in a day!

Nevertheless, I'd love to be around..:-)

Now, from what I see here, I think I'm in the Seeker's phase?
My Jupiter and Sarurn and conjunct, Saturn sitting on my ASC, 18 Taurus, and Jupiter sitting on my Sun, 19 Scorpio. So since Jupiter is ahead, I guess they are apart a bit over 180?

Now, I'm not 100% sure what to add to the interpretation... I liked the descritption on up-close-and -personal with life, I'm just not sure how to interpret this yet, or maybe I'm just out of practice???????
oh, how I have missed the stars..;-)

ps: will try to add my star info at the right place...

dadsnook2000
01-05-2006, 12:45
Good to hear from you again. I think you are living your Saturn opposite Jupiter phase quite well, taking on both responsibilities and exapanding life experiences all together. As for me, I'm still looking for that clock with 28 hours on it -- I just feel that having that extra four hours a day would be a big help.

I'll be visiting Italy this summer -- Naples, Rome, Venice, Sicily, Pompeii, Florence, Pisa -- a sort of whirlwind tour. We are looking forward to it. As you can see, we of the astrological persuasian have been quite busy here. Join us when and as you can. And, congratulations. Dave

dadsnook2000
04-05-2006, 04:14
Relative to your IM asking for some feedback on your post . . .

You are indeed in the ACTIVIST Phase in both your natal and progressed chart.

H: Saturn gives the anchor, the daily life ..... the lessons which will play out over a long period ... Jupiter ahead brings in the general development overall ...... possibly bringing in *big* lessons or experiences, that Saturn will have to interpret, learn from and then embrace in order to grow as a result?

Comment: This is generally true. However I have found in the Saturn-Jupiter phase relationships that the rules tend to shift slightly from the meanings of the inner planet phase relationships. Jupiter commits itself, willy-nilly, to the actions it initiates, the causes it supports, the things it seeks. After all, the big guy is exhuberant, isn't he? Will Saturn willingly follow along those sorts of paths. I suspect Saturn will try to gain tit-for-tat at best, or really delay support at worst. Jupiter may end up "running in place" and not making too much headway or actually providing support for what it promised. This will be a true "square" struggle to find compromise -- not balance -- but just a way to make things work.

H: Progressed chart wise however ........ Saturn is at 23-33 (retrograde) Aries, but House 5 and Jupiter is at 20-04 Virgo House 9 ..... which I find interesting because of the closeness in the degrees to the natal planets but also the fact that they are both in the houses behind the natal ones!!! Anyways, this would be Jupiter ahead by 117 degrees, still in ACTIVIST PHASE. Apart from the houses, only a difference of 10 degrees from the day I was born. I'm wondering if there is any relevance to that?

REPLY: Isn't this interesting. The regression of house positions is due to the MC progressing ahead at a rate that is faster than the motions of Saturn and Jupiter in the weeks following your birth. Interpretively, this would suggest that both planets can learn from their past -- giving Saturn, perhaps, the larger influence over its partner, Jupiter. Saturn might have to consider applying lessons from the creative processes (have a plan but recognize that flexiblity and diversion to new paths may inspire improvements in the original plan) while Jupiter has to be a bit more philosophical about what it seeks and can do (its not just all about "me."). NOTE: I have just launched a new thread in the Planet Series about Jupiter in the Houses.

All in all, I would say that you have grasped the essential meaning of these two heavy weights and how they might work for you. Now, can you directly relate what we have both said, or what you said, to your life's experiences to date? Understanding this works best when we can personally relate it to ourselves or those we know. Dave

huredriel
04-05-2006, 06:03
Thanks so much for looking at this Dave, really appreciate it. Will be back after I've let your comments sink in :)

x Huredriel