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dadsnook2000
13-06-2006, 12:07
Up until this point we have been exploring some of the functionality of the inner planets or should I say the "visible" planets -- out to and including Saturn. We had found that the planets shaped our inclination to live, act and respond in certain ways and that we -- for some yet undetermined reason -- seemed to respond to those circles, cycles and seasons as the planets moved through our natal chart imprint and made new contacts with each other.

As we moved into considering Jupiter and Saturn we found that we described our inclinations to interact socially and within the constraints of various "outer" groups that our lives intersected with. With Jupiter and Saturn we noted a shift in how we interpreted these planets, placing more of an inclusionary feeling into our findings and assumptions. As we approach the point of considering Uranus, we first have to consider how Saturn and Uranus work together, or don't work together, as the case may be. We really can't fully appreciate Uranus, Neptune and Pluto until we feel comfortable about bridging into those rhealms from Saturn. In many ways, Saturn represents limits but Saturn is also the bridge to the outer or generational planets. So this thread may have to find its way and its pace as we move forward.

Welcome back after several weeks of resting.

Uranus was seen but not appreciated before its recorded discovery. That is the nature of surprises, they are under your eyes and you don't see them until that surprise moment. Uranus, upon discovery, seemed to correlate with big social changes, the popular revolutions in the US and in France, and the great Industrial Revolution. The world changed. Old orders and methods were disrupted. The world was "changed" in every sense of the word.

Change is seldom appreciated. In mythology, Uranus was a contrary ba*t*rd to say the least. Everyone finally conspired against him and talked Saturn, his child, to castrate him. Saturn met his responsibility and did so, all of this symbolizing Saturn's tendancy to limit the creative and changing nature of Uranus. That "limitation" and "duty" of Saturn versus the "change" and "surprises" of Uranus will form part of the basis of our exploration.

Another basis of exploration will be to deal with the shifting nature of going from "personal" to "interaction" to "sociaties trends on a generaltional level." This area of space leaves Saturn's orbit and travels out to a zone that is twice as far to reach Uranus' orbit. We also will have to stretch ourselves to see Uranus in its many forms and to be able to grasp its social impact, its intrusion into where our private lives meets society, and even (for some of us) where Uranus intrudes into our personal life and personality. Some of us may find that Uranus mostly works only on one level, others may find Uranus works on two/more levels or doesn't seem to work at all in their charts.

As a start lets just look at Uranus in terms of its cycle thru time within our charts. Having an 84 year cycle, we can immediately look at the half cycle and quarter cycle points in time and come to some immediate conclusions.
The quarter cycle coincides with age 21, the age where we assume a degree of maturity becomes evident. This is the time where we legally vote, drink, and graduate from school -- the point where we do what we want and find that we live with the consequences. The half-cycle occurs at/near ge 42, the age where we start to recognize our mortality. The children are approaching their age of maturity, we struggle with paying off monies associated with their schooling, our housing, our growing collection of property for play and pleasure. We are also at a point of having to position ourselves for advancement in our careers or, having spent to long in a career that is no longer relevant, changing careers and all of the uncertainties that this move implies.

The 3/4 cycle occurs at 63 or so, when our ability and suitability for past endeavors is questioned, where some are forced into retirement and then feel unneeded and unrelevant to the world around us. By the time the cycle ends at/around age 84 most of us, if still living, probably find that we have done all that we wanted to do. Yet, some go on and continue to shape the world around them in surprising ways.

Along with the cycle of time, through time, Uranus is moving thru our natal houses. House systems in our natal chart comprise a sequentail set of areas of experience -- areas that are longer and/or shorter as we progress thru the houses. Houses are highly individualistic and personal. Uranus will take varying amounts of time to move through our houses. Signs on the other hand are quite equal in length and Uranus generally moves through them on a somewhat regular basis -- slightly longer, slightly shorter but quite regular in motion. Signs are mundane, worldly, generational in some ways such as new trends.

So, we have our work cut out for us. We can look at the following in whatever order we please:
1) Saturn in relationship to Uranus: how we interface with societies pressures and changes.
2) Uranus thru the houses: We have the sequence of houses and we have the starting point orientation of the house Uranus is in at birth. It's one thing to have Uranus pass thru the seventh house of the chart versus the seventh house from where it was in the birth chart. So, we have to consider double meanings as we explore this.
3) Uranus thru the signs: The mundane events that swirl around our lives and indirectly impact them. This area is both dicey and interesting to explore.
4) Uranus in aspect within the natal chart: what does it all mean.
5) Uranus as it transits the natal chart: does it trigger the natal aspects, does it show an impact for all transits?

So, the above listing of explorations is what I'm proposing. As always, I make no claims of special knowledge or in being able to give deep insights. I just do what I always do -- layout the obvious, suggest some conclusions, ask for confirmation or disassociation from the list members, restate what we seem to have found, and then use all of that to move onto the next step.

In following posts within this thread I will start to review the symbolic meanings of Saturn and Uranus so that we can all get more comfortable with this deep and important area of our charts. Feel free to comment or make suggestions. Dave.

dadsnook2000
13-06-2006, 13:25
Saturn plays different roles in our lives at differing times. When younger, this old man of the solar system represents sternness, authority, rigidity of position, a sour disposition. As we grow, develop and move out into the world, Saturn retains its sense of limitation, outward authority imposed on us, delays. As we age Saturn starts to represent pains, stiffness, maturity, reasonableness (as we see it), patience. Inbetween all of this, Saturn sometimes shows up as back aches (in Leo), teeth problems, constipation, all of the bone and limitation stuff. We sometimes see Dad or the Boss as a Saturn figure. Later as we mature, Saturn becomes the "plan", the "method", the "process" that we follow to limit failure and assure success -- yes, "limit" and "assure" are Saturn words. We learn caution and care, to take our time. In time we project Saturn to become institutions and rules, legislation, legal requirements.

As we learned earlier, we use Saturn -- and feel used by Saturn -- in a number of ways, all of them associated with limitation, duty, caution.

Uranus is in many ways an "opposite" of Saturn. Where Saturn is slow, Uranus is "sudden and fast." Saturn follows the plan, Uranus tears up the plan and improvises. Uranus has no respect for anything that opposes it, Uranus acts as it sees a need to act. Uranus is often accused as being a destroyer -- yet that is Pluto's role. Uranus breaks down things, changes things, but doesn't really destroy in the way that Pluto does. Pluto is change that can't ever be unchanged or revoked. Uranus is change, maybe for the moment, maybe a transformational change that redirects but it doesn't very often destroy anything that can't be put right again. Yes, our pride and our reputation can be changed (or destroyed) but those portions of us can be re-built or re-established after we deal with the changes given to us. Saturn wants walls, Uranus wants holes in those walls. Saturn wants to preserve in the sense that it keeps something unchanged -- which is different from the preserving and protecting that Jupiter provides.

We will be dealing with subtle distinctions here and we may find ourselves going back over our words and correcting them. Such is the nature of things once the outer planets come into play.

So, we will all work from our own lists of meanings and will also be open to ammending them as long as we can stay on common ground. Dave

dadsnook2000
14-06-2006, 00:32
We have used phase relationships in several of previous Planet Series threads as a way of understanding how planets work together and also as a "short cut" way to quickly assess a chart. These previous "relationship" studies have included:
** Sun & Moon: our basic identity of conscious will and emotional response.
** Saturn & Moon: our early conditioning and struggle to define our maturity.
** Jupiter & Mercury: our manner of social interaction and assimilation.
** Mars & Venus: our sexual identity and poise in dealing with other people.
** Saturn & Jupiter: our intersection with the outer world and how we seek to manage challenges and opportunities.

And now, Uranus & Saturn: how we live with the greater world, how we deal with its intrusions and social trends, how we adapt to the world's impositions upon us.

With the Saturn & Jupiter pairing we faced both a personal, inner set of issues as well as how we interacted within our daily circles of contact with others. With Uranus and Saturn we face this pair on a personal level, on a social or close circle level (friends, family, work, social groups, community), and on a world-generation level where everything seems far beyond our reach and impossible to control in any way. So, Uranus is introducing an "expansion" that is much larger and much different from what Jupiter's "expansion" force is. This is why I mentioned earlier that our keywords have to have a more subtle and different set of meanings as we move outward thru the soalr system.

URANUS - SATURN: PERFORMER PHASE, Saturn is 0 to 45 degrees ahead of Uranus.
Here, Saturn seems forced to define your sense of individuality, your ability to be a leader -- either being decisive for yourself or being a leader for others in that you just take charge on the basis that you know best. We are talking here of mostly personal interactions and daily life. While acting in this manner, Saturn seems to know that this is "temporary" and that it merely playing the role of a target -- already sensing that everything changes quite rapidly according to natural cycles. So, we can say that this phase represents "leadership for the moment" and an identity that serves your purposes for the moment.
** Personal level: Being who you must be for the situation you are in.
** Social level: Taking on a responsibility as if it was a short term contract.
** World level: Fitting in and taking opportunities to fashion circumstances to suit your present needs.

URANUS-SATURN: WORKER PHASE, Saturn is 45 to 90 degrees ahead of Uranus.
In prior phase studies we saw that this position correlated with making some sort of break from the past. Here, Saturn is thrown into situations where the past is challenged severely, a series of personal level events and interactions brings you to sharply question where you have come from. You often look for a "dutch uncle", someone who can help you make sense of what this "change" is all about, what you should try to do about your situation, where you can find answers.
** Personal level: Coping with surprises and upsets. Health can be affected as well as your sense of composure.
** Social level: Friends come and go, the value of friendships and long-standing relationships is questioned, work and society seems to need changing and it all makes you feel uncomfortable.
** World level: You seek instances where the world doesn't run right, where injustices occur, where the balance of actions and consequences seems out of whack. Contracts may be broken, old traditions fade or are corrupted or seem much less appreciated.

URANUS - SATURN: ACTIVIST PHASE, Saturn is 90 to 135 degrees ahead of Uranus.
Here there is turmoil, reconstruction of all sorts, groups and organizations are in disarray organizationally and functionally. Neighborhoods are in flux, the family structure and relations are changing as new marriage and divorces impact holiday get-togethers. You yourself tend to be caught up in seeing the need to make changes and actually get involved as result of all that is happening around you. You may actually get swept up in the flow of doing things that you might not want to do. Of course, all of this is YOUR PERSONAL VIEW OF THINGS -- everyone else may be quite content with how life is moving along, but for you there is a dis-quieting turmoil all around you.
** Personal level: You clean house, get a new house or life style, throw out clothes, seek new jobs, identify with new fads.
** Social level: You realign with other factions in the family, find new sets of friends or change within a group of friends pursuing similar interests and change in their lives (religious, diet and health, work and career, life-style).
** World level: Your skills, your situation, your goals, your values seem all out of whack relative to the world you live in. For you everything seems like it is wrong for what is needed. You are involved, thru participating, in taking things apart -- a sort of wrecking-ball adventure that you might not be very comfortable with.

URANUS - SATURN: ANALYST PHASE, Saturn is 135 to 180 degrees ahead of Uranus.
Like other planet combinations in this phase, this is where you cope with what you have -- except that Uranus doesn't fit with "cope and work with it" approaches. Here, you "cope" by jumping fully into a course of action, some form of committed process. It's like walking on coals, if you have faith and do it right then it works. If it is all wrong then you had better jumpt of the hot coals quickly, heal your feet and try something else. This phase is sudden experiments, short-term fix and check it situations, keeping a few things and adding a few things -- sort of like an experimental cake mix where you hope for adequate results.
** Personal level: You have to be involved or be willing to be blind-sided by upcomming events. Do something, be innovative, go with impulses.
** Social level: Take what is offered or look for alternatives, just do something, anything. Be willing to work with others for the moment and don't expect anything except what you get. Work with plan A, have plan B ready.
** World level: Watch for trends, watch for what younger people or trendy people are doing. Be willing to make snap judgements that seem to have the best chance for survival.

This is the first half of the Uranus-Saturn phase relationships. I have been just been writing based on experience here -- everything written needs to be tested and discussed. I'm sure it will be generally appropriate but we can all learn and refine these statements by sharing. So start responding with your personal views.

In my next post I'll continue with the last four phase relationships. When we are done we will something with which to base our next set of explorations on as we look at Uranus moving through its houses and our houses to see how it works in our charts. Dave

dadsnook2000
14-06-2006, 11:26
URANUS - SATURN; SEEKER PHASE, where Saturn is 180 to 225 degrees ahead of Uranus.
In this phase we are very much aware of who we are, the roles we play in the outer world versus our inner self. Dual or multiple entities can cause problems, especially where these two planets are involved. Uranus is both spontaneous in the actions that are prompted and the responses evoked by others. Saturn wants to keep to a script, within bounds and not let any of its role-identities get away from the core self. Social stress results. How well do you handle the roles taken on? What demands are made of you?
** Personal level: Inconsistency seems to invade your actions and statements. You grow uncertain as to how far you can let yourself be yourself.
** Social level: Intriguing to others, uncertain within. Others like you but may not feel that you are always there for/with them. There may be an air of mystery surrounding you in the eyes of others.
** World level: What level of commitment is required to meet the world's many challenges? Does the world stage ask to much? Personal burnout can occur if you don't have a core plan to fall back upon. Sure, surprises abound and the plan has to be modified, but keeping a sane area of your life apart from the world around you should be a driving force.

URANUS - SATURN; BELIEVER PHASE, Saturn is 225 to 270 degrees ahead of Uranus.
In this phase Saturn almost get away with everything in terms of bringing a sense of control to one's life. Brilliant idea, sudden concepts all emerge and are hammered into a viable life style and social/work plan. All you have to worry about is those last minute changes that Uranus slips into your life. Here Saturn seems to work best but that is only because Saturn has been caught up in Uranus' sudden success and sudden change madness. Saturn can be shattered if he is forced off balance.
** Personal level: Calm and rationality is sought after, surprises are ignored for as long as possible. You have a method for dealing with almost anything.
** Social level: You tend to project an eveness in crises, taking charge and delegating tasks. Delegating disruption to others only works sometimes.
** World level: You put on a brave face, you plow ahead, you rationalize the upsets in your life. Are you religous? Do you drink?

URANUS - SATURN; THE CHANGER PHASE, where Saturn is 270 to 315 degrees ahead of Uranus.
At this point, you feel you are in on the cosmic joke. You realize that progress is built upon change and surprise. At least that is your experience in how you see and deal with the world. The aplomb that you now display in this phase is a refinement of when you struggled (in the prior phase) to keep a calm surface on the turmoil underneath. You now just ride with it, like with a bull riding session at a rodeo -- you hang back, you lean forward, you try to go with the flow.
** Personal level; You see the flighty and inconsistent side of things and try to manage it as best you can. Stiff upper lip and all of that British stuff.
** Social level; You expect less from others than you do yourself. You try to steer them and have developed methods to do so, but you know that it is not always possible to control events or people.
** World level: Perhaps it is easier to explain, report, analyze, and show how wild things are -- leaving the consequences and solutions for someone else to find and apply. You know eveything is going downhill fast -- the only problem is where do you get off before hitting bottom.

URANUS - SATURN; PROPHET PHASE -- where Saturn is 315 to 359 degrees ahead of Uranus.
In other phase relationship studies we found that it was hard but necessary to give up what had been achieved and to prepare for the future. With these two planets it seems that we are eager to move onward and outward to the "sane" asylum ourselves or are involved in helping others to find calmer waters. This phase is truly representative of the "light at the end of the tunnel." Rejoice.
** Personal level: Hope springs eternal. Sowing seeds for the future is truly a Saturn thing, although the harvest may not be seen. Still its better to hope and work for something that is increasingly becoming clearer than deal with the chaos behind you.
** Social level; you can be of great help to others by both your example and your growing faith in a brave new world.
** World level; remember the words of a World War II US Navy Admiral, " When disaster befalls the world, we are saved by regular men who step up to do great deeds." -- or something like that. The world always needs someone during great changes to do great deeds, to follow basic ethics and beliefs and apply them to great tasks.

So, now we have covered the Uranus -- Saturn phase relationships, and we have seen that personal, social and world levels of impact and reaction can apply. When you respond, consider relating your thoughts to these three levels of influence. I'll wait for the replies. Dave

dadsnook2000
14-06-2006, 23:55
With Uranus around 8 Taurus and Saturn at 18 Aries, I have the CHANGER Phase in my chart. I have always been challenging the status-quo during my life in terms of work, friends, hobbies. I have worked in a number of career fields and have had a lot of fun doing so -- in all of them I lacked formal training but always succeeded by effort and building upon what I observed and picked up from previous experiences. Part of this success was due to my always jumping on the "next great thing" as this allowed me to enter into a new environment before there were any formal guidelines to follow. I could always innovate.

I always felt, from about age 42 onward, that I was in on the "cosmic joke", that things were going to change anyways so why not imbrace change if you could not instigate change. While others like things to stay the same and be comfortable, I was always looking for a new competitive edge. So, I guess that I fit this phase description fairly well.

On a PERSONAL level, I always seem to be calm, yet my mind is working furiously to consider whats new, what can be changed based on what I just have learned.

On a SOCIAL level I have observed that people like the comfortable path of life, so I sometimes get enjoyment by introducing surprising twists into my conversations or activities just to see the effect upon others.

On a WORLD level I have been less successful in changing things -- you haven't seen me on TV yet, have you? I was a business systems analyst and used the power of the pen to influence large corporations in the software world. I was involved in business computer systems development and did initiate and helped create a "then-new" type of manufacturing planning and control software system that proved very successful and was copied by many others -- a small success. But other than that, I just made my small contributions to the world.

Dave

** World level: Perhaps it is easier to explain, report, analyze, and show how wild things are -- leaving the consequences and solutions for someone else to find and apply. You know eveything is going downhill fast -- the only problem is where do you get off before hitting bottom.

squeakmo9
19-06-2006, 08:02
removed

squeakmo9
19-06-2006, 08:33
removed

rainwolf
08-09-2006, 07:38
Well with uranus at 22 sag and saturn at 12, Saturn would be way ahead of uranus and be in the prophet stage.
** Personal level: Hope springs eternal. Sowing seeds for the future is truly a Saturn thing, although the harvest may not be seen. Still its better to hope and work for something that is increasingly becoming clearer than deal with the chaos behind you.

Funny thats the interpretation of that because I always focus on hope for the future when chaos is around or going behind me.

** Social level; you can be of great help to others by both your example and your growing faith in a brave new world.
** World level; remember the words of a World War II US Navy Admiral, " When disaster befalls the world, we are saved by regular men who step up to do great deeds." -- or something like that. The world always needs someone during great changes to do great deeds, to follow basic ethics and beliefs and apply them to great tasks.
I'm not sure how I relate to this, maybe I have to be older to see how it has affected me over time, but that'll be something to keep in mind.

star-lover
08-09-2006, 07:59
sorry, some help here, i can't remember the thread where it shows how to work out the phase

i have uranus 24 leo and saturn 12 capricorn
this is 138 degrees between them but is it the right way around?- is this the analyst phase? or prophet phase

dadsnook2000
08-09-2006, 08:13
The slowest moving planet/body of a pair is considered the anchor point. The faster moving planet/body is measured counter-clockwise or in zodiac sequence forward from the anchor point. Using 24 Leo as the anchor point, 12 Capricorn would indeed be 138 degrees ahead -- the Analyst Phase.

To quote my earlier post in part, "this is where you cope with what you have -- except that Uranus doesn't fit with "cope and work with it" approaches. Here, you "cope" by jumping fully into a course of action, some form of committed process. It's like walking on coals, if you have faith and do it right then it works. If it is all wrong then you had better jump off the hot coals quickly, heal your feet and try something else. This phase is sudden experiments, short-term fix and check it situations, keeping a few things and adding a few things -- sort of like an experimental cake mix where you hope for adequate results.
** Personal level: Do something, be innovative, go with impulses.
** Social level: Work with plan A, have plan B ready.

This pair of planets doesn't always fit with the generic term "Analyst" because it sometimes seems there isn't time to analyize anything. Even if you plan ahead, something cause the game to be changed and your plans are for nought. Thank heavens this phase doesn't seem to be in the forefront of our lives on a minute by minute basis. Dave

star-lover
14-09-2006, 03:59
URANUS - SATURN: ANALYST PHASE, Saturn is 135 to 180 degrees ahead of Uranus.
Like other planet combinations in this phase, this is where you cope with what you have -- except that Uranus doesn't fit with "cope and work with it" approaches.


i've never been great with coping and working with it - i would rather change it or rebel at *coping* - if something is not *right* I will challenge it - sometimes to my detriment - I will say, well this is what I think, why does this not fit into my way of thinking? I've done everything right, I've done my homework, I got everything under control and I got a big mess now - the world is giving me a slap in the face with something - this doesn't fit, that doesn't fit - its not right/its injust, wth is going on? why should I *cope* like it's my problem rather than the people responsible be accountable! - you have to adapt or do something about it - accept or rebel and walk away and do your own thing


. Here, you "cope" by jumping fully into a course of action, some form of committed process. It's like walking on coals, if you have faith and do it right then it works. If it is all wrong then you had better jumpt of the hot coals quickly, heal your feet and try something else. This phase is sudden experiments, short-term fix and check it situations, keeping a few things and adding a few things -- sort of like an experimental cake mix where you hope for adequate results.



story of my life - living on edge (not on the edge) - never feeling truly at peace for long - the quick fix and check it is so right here - its like *making it up as you go along* - you tried the tested and tried true methods and they didnt always work, so no wonder you go it alone



** Personal level: You have to be involved or be willing to be blind-sided by upcomming events. Do something, be innovative, go with impulses.


its only at times when I've gone with impulses that things have moved on (even if in the wrong direction - but *at least* they moved)
most other times, things have stagnated and gone downhill


** Social level: Take what is offered or look for alternatives, just do something, anything. Be willing to work with others for the moment and don't expect anything except what you get.

this struck the biggest chord with me - just do something without needing to be sure, know in advance of the outcome, - just letting go and finding out - sometimes it feels like you are crippled on mental/emotional levels - you get the smallest nudge, hint to do something, anything but at those times (depressed times) those nudges and hints get melted into the depression - you don't do anything for so long and you lose out on the moving forward of uranus/the freedom

this is an interesting pair of planets in this series
to me they speak of move on or stagnate - and they also speak of *change its in your best interests* - take the best of the past, discard the rest and move on to where you are supposed to get to