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paradoxx
30-06-2006, 15:14
July 4, 1776, the generally accepted day that the American Colonies of the Crown took up arms and declared independence from King George. The Result was the US Marine Corps and other Army regiments preparing for a long battle against the power of British Royalty of the late 18th Century. Paul Revere announces the Redcoats are coming across teh countryside. While a result of several economic and political issues across more than a decade (the Boston Tea Party, teh battles of lexington and concord, and other major battles available for review at wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolution#Crises.2C_1772.E2.80.931775) ). The use of july 4th, 1776 is in recognition at the general time that British loyalists lost control of political influence in the formation of poliitcal function in what is now the United States.
the Declaration of Indpendence was ratified.

July 4th, 2006, the United States declaration of Independance is 230 years old, increasing from 13 to 50 states (+5 territories and several insular areas around the world). The sun on the 4th of july is at 13 degrees, the mooon will be in Libra and move into Scorpio by midnight of the following day. Mercury will be stationary at 1 degree leo and ready to move into retrograde, venus will be at 13 gemini, expressing herself as teh morning star. Mars in 19 leo, pushing leadership in new ways, jupiter is stiaonary in jupiter ready to move direct, Uranus is in pisces retrograde at 14degrees, neptuen at 19 aquarius and pluto at 24 sagittarius.

Leo Mars is opposite to Aquarius neptune, leo energies will have to go with the Aquarius flow, it will beneift them well if they just accept that they don't have to be leader in this case. Group energies will be strong, but there is very much a desire to be seperate, esepcially among the younger people.

Chiron is at 8 Aquarius and oppose saturn (still) and is pushing for healing, saturn is pushing for structure and limitations, behave this holiday or things will not be very energetic.

on teh asteroid front:

America: 21 pisces
union: 12 sagittarius rx
washingtonia: 20 sagittarius rx
ute: 12 leo
navajo: 1 pisces rx
hopi: 5 libra

America will feel very spiritual during the fireworks display, pisces will make sure of it, views of firework reflection in a lake will be favored. union at 12 sagittarius wants philosphy of unison and structure to be recognized and respected, in retrograde this energy will come at 1/3 the impact, and then return pushing for a full realization of American revolutionary ideals. Washingtonia also in sagittarius indicates phiosophy in action, movement of new endevours, lifestyle issues are going to be presented widely, again only at 1/3 the full energy at hand, it could still be too much to handle for some people.

ute at 12 leo shows strong leadership in teh southwest, also problems of a cultural nature might crop up in certain places, navajo at 1 pisces retrograde higlights navajo spirituality, perhaps at odds with american spirituality, and hopi at 5 libra is requesting balance and structure for their lifestyle and choices, although they also need balance within as well.

Ameirca is square to washingtonia, union square to uranus, ute, juno, vesta, and mars in leo in general oppostion to neptune in aquarius, and union is opposite to venus. that least one is goint ot be the nature of the holiday, venus is about material and materisal use, union is about compromise and co-existence, in all forms, yet when these two oppose there is a sense of "Why am I being yelled at?" Even though we are in full awareness of what we did wrong we are fighting the truth that we need to fulfill our roles.

Whitestar
03-07-2006, 00:14
Thanks...interesting!!!

Elven
03-07-2006, 01:23
These are the coresponding Sabian Symbols for the asteroids that you put in paradoxx - from the Sabain Symbols Lynda Hill: www.sabiansymbols.com

America: 21 pisces

Sabian Symbol - Pisces 22:
A Prophet bringing Down the New Law from the Mountain

Keywords: revelations and channelling of new information. Truths being revealed. Thoughts ideas guidelines, The Ten Commandments. Laying down the Law. New Rosolutions. New Pathways of living. Social Justice. The Koran. The torah. The Bible. Finding Records. People of the Book. The Ark. Newly codified Laws. Amendments. The testaments.

Cautionary: being told what to do. Believing thatone had all the anwers or believing someone else has all the answers. Disregarding the moral code and religious ways of the past. Rules set in stone. The statement "This is whats going to happen".

union: 12 sagittarius rx

Sabian Symbol - Sagittarius 13
A Widows Past is Brought to Light.

Keywords:Unveiling and exposing or creating a new and vibrant beginning. geting rid of yesterdays darkness.Looking back to revision attitudes. Leaving one free for new opportunities. The 'scales' falling from ones eyes. Reasons as to why ones relationships have failed. Remembering. past life memories. Things being found or discovered.

Caution: Ols stories that should be forgotten. Dead-end feelings hanging around.Gossip and family secrets that hurt and otherwise cause harm. Feelings that are rehashed could be detrimental to stability. Someone being caught out.

washingtonia: 20 sagittarius rx

Sabian Symbol - Sagittarius 21
A Child and a Dog wearing Borrowed Eyeglasses.

Keywords: Emulation often leads one to actualization. the rewards inherant sometimes in make-believe. Dog obedience classes and training. Pantomines. Dealing with life through play or fantasy. Difficulty in really understanding each other. the perception each has of the other. Spontaneous are carefree creativity. Cartooning and clowning. Having the 'eyes' to see.

Caution: Deliberatley fooling others with false impression. Taking on masks to hide real intentions. The blind leading the blind. Pretending to be something that one isnt. Not seeing things for who or how they really are. Getting lost in abstractions and goofing around too much. Play acting to avoid the truth.

ute: 12 leo

Sabian Symbol - Leo 13
An Old Sea Captain Rocking on the Porch of his Cottage.

Keywords: Retreating into ones self and reflecting. Quiet confidence in knowing that one can conquer lifes storms and come out wiser. Observing Life from afar. Wanting to opt out. Retirement pensions, and pension plans, being let go from ones job. Redundancy. Writing down the story of ones life.

Caution: Ignoring what is happening now in favour of memories. Inability to get going. Disconnecting from current reality. Feeling lazy and unable to get going. The impression that the world owes you a living. Feeling jaded and worn out. Envying those with more energy that are 'out there' in the world. Wanting others to do the work or look after you. Complacency.

navajo: 1 pisces rx

Sabian Symbol - Pisces 2
A Squirrel Hiding from Hunters.

Keywords: Using tactics to ensure survival. Hiding ones self away. not being prepared to take a step out into the big wide world for fear of making the wrong one, Security systems. Caution and reserve. Using commonsense. Things or people that feel tiny, uncertain or insecure. Refuges and the need for them.

Caution: People picking on each other. Being bullied out of what you deserve. Giving those 'out here' more power than they warrant. not trusting in life. Paranoia. Running away from things. Not wanting to go out and socialize, go to work or school. Truancy. Not speaking up for fear of being shot down.

hopi: 5 libra

Sabian Symbol - Libra 6
A Man Watches His ideals taking concrete form Before His Inner Vision.

Keywords: A vivid confrontation wth ones objectives. Creative visualization. Imagining things. meditations and affirmations. Ideas being crystalized. Putting things out into the universe. Making things happen. Seeing things take shape and form. clairvoyance. Film Making. Writing and getting published. The Power of manifestation.

Caution: Being dissatisfied with the manifestaion of what was thought to be a true ideal. A feeling that things are 'written in stone' and cant be changed. Do be careful what you wish for.


Hope they're helpful :D

Blessings
Elven x

MCsea
03-07-2006, 13:19
Hi VERY INTERESTING THREAD
thank you for starting it

I got this on the 29th June from Lynda Hill it echos what is above...
I dont think it is specifically for July 4th - but still interesting


FROM - blog entry from http://sabiansymbols.typepad.com/


Where's the Much-Needed Furious Storm?

Well, the Saturn degree of GW Bush could hardly be more apt - Cancer 27: The Furious Storm in a Canyon Filled With Valuable Homes. Of course, all homes are 'valuable' to those who inhabit them and quite a few have been devastated or destroyed under his tenure.

I hope that in the not-too-distant future there will be a Furious Storm around GWB, and his actions, and those of his cronies, will be revealed. Perhaps the retrograde motion of Mercury back and forth over this degree will stir something up. As I write this, I see that hundreds of thousands of people have had to evacuate their homes on the east coast in order to escape the floods.

I do wonder where the Furious Storm of revolt is with what this administration has done and it's neglect of domestic issues and assault on people's rights. It does seem to me like they're 'putting something in the water' in the United States as so many people seem to be asleep. Thank God not everyone, of course, but far more than one would hope. It's extraordinary to me that he's managed to get through all that's happened since he was elected and not had to account for what his administration has done.

The Furious Storm degree is also the progressed North Node of the Independence July 4 1776 chart and, further, it was the IC (4th house cusp) in the GWB 2001 inauguration chart (set for Jan 20 2001 at 12.02pm). Hence, the Moon's nodes of the 4th July chart sit on the IC/MC of GWB's inauguration.

This 'Furious Storm' fits with the concept that GWB is a 'war president' - as he has said he wanted to be known as. As Ger pointed out in his comment on my last blog, Mercury over the next few weeks will be transiting back and forth over this degree in GWB's 12th house of hidden enemies.

One wonders what goes on in Bush's head (at least I know I do!). His Jupiter is on Libra 19: A Gang of Robbers in Hiding. The question strikes me: Who (or what) exactly is the Gang of Robbers? This administration certainly knows how to put the spin on anything to make it sound fearful. Our lives are full of fear - at least reflected in the media. Remember back some years and think about those times when the word 'terror' was hardly heard. Nowadays, every day, several times a day, we hear the word 'terror', 'terrorist', 'terrorism'. The word is implanted in our language and it depends on what side of the country, world or political spectrum just exactly who or what a 'terrorist' is.

The 4th July chart for the United States progressed Mars is also on the Gang of Robbers degree. With all this talk of continual threats, imminent nuclear disaster and terrorists, Mars here goes a long way to explain why GWB's words resonate so loudly with some and annoy the heck out of others. George Bush Snr also has this 'Robbers' degree in his chart; it's the degree just moments after his Moon at 17Libra56 (to be pedantic) that degree is Libra 18: Two Men Placed Under Arrest.

The karmic condition for George Jnr's Jupiter is also Libra 18: Two Men Placed Under Arrest. I have long said that I believe this administration will most likely one day have to face some kind of judgement for the things that have been done in their name.

George Jnr's Moon degree is Libra 17: A Retired Sea Captain and he's had more days off work since becoming President than any President in history. Indeed, one of Bush's ancestors was named John James Holliday, which I find rather amusing. George Snr.in his four years as President, took all or part of 543 vacation days at Camp David and in Kennebunkport.

Little wonder George Jnr takes so many vacation days; his progressed Mars is conjunct his Moon, hence, his progressed Mars is also on Libra 17: A Retired Sea Captain. Witness his 'magnificent' descent, declaring victory in the war, on the deck of the naval ship.

George Jnr's progressed Sun is presently at 11Virgo18 = Virgo 12: A Bride With Her Veil Snatched Away. Perhaps some truths will finally 'come to light'? Will he be able to continue to hide behind the 'veil'?


George Jnr's natal Mercury is at Leo 10: Early Morning Dew. Although, naturally, this can also be a wonderful degree, I see in his case a slow-wittedness, a bumbling mumbler, somewhat as if he's yet to awake from a long, deep sleep.

He does appear to have some measure of 'teflon' ongoing for him, though, and perhaps his progressed Mercury is one of his 'saving graces' as it's currently on 1Virgo28 = Virgo 2: A Large White Cross Dominates the Landscape. This, amongst other things, represents his continual references to doing God's work. God speaks to him. The support from the religious right and it's ramifications are shown here, but that could change. They may decide that he's not the 'annointed one' after all.

Interestingly, the progressed Sun of the July 4th chart of the U.S. is smack opposite this degree at Pisces 2: A Squirrel Hiding From Hunters. So many people in the U.S. are reporting being sick of living in fear. The fear to express their thoughts, whether in person, in emails, phone calls, blogs, etc. It's like big brother is watching - and they are.

In the coming years, that progressed Mercury of Bush's will leave the Large White Cross and go over Virgo 3: Two Guardian Angels Bringing Protection. George may finally change so many laws that he, and probably many others, may escape having to answer to their deeds.


There's much more to be said about all this... for one, notice that Bush Snr's progressed Sun is tracking with Bush Jnr's and GWB's progressed Sun is on his father's natal ascendant.

Back to Mercury moving over George Jnr's Saturn, when Mercury goes retrograde over that Furious Storm degree, on July 16, transiting Venus will be on Gemini 28: Society Granting Bankruptcy to Him a Man Leaves the Court With Mixed Feelings and Saturn will be on another Sea Captain degree: Leo 13: An Old Sea Captain Rocking on the Porch of His Cottage. This sounds like something is set to happen... although it could just be George taking more vacation days. The more things change the more they appear to stay the same.

The charts for George Bush Jnr and George Bush Snr, along with the USA Independence chart are up on my blog, if you want to check them out.

Greetings from DownUnder
Lynda Hill - www.sabiansymbols.com

Elven
03-07-2006, 13:49
Ah thankyou Mcsea! - was going to put it in the political forum its a great read! ties in really well with what paradoxx was saying too })

Thankyou paradoxx, MCsea & Lynda - great read!!

leephd
04-07-2006, 00:19
Before everybody gets too enthusiastic about this thread, let's not forget two things. First, when astrologers use a birth chart for the country, it needs a time attached: and there lies the rub. If there is one thing that everybody in the astrological community likes to argue over, it's the USA chart.

While July 4th is the day everyone celebrates (maybe - but isn't everybody celebrating today, the 3rd, as well?), that's now -- on July 4, 1776, hardly anybody outside the Continental Congress knew that anything had "happened." this is why some astrologers have even argued for different dates, like July 2nd, or even years later, when the Articles of Confederation were signed - or even the Constitution ratified.

Without a proper chart - and this includes time, and there, coming up with a time for the ratification or signing of the Declaration is not a straightforward process - annual predictions are difficult at best.

The second precaution is how to interpret the asteroids in a chart anyway. The examples in this thread (and elsewhere on this forum) are examples of what years ago I had dubbed "roidomancy." Here's the issue: it is not uncommon for 'roid enthusiasts to work with lists of 1,000 or even 10,000 asteroids. Think about it. With coverage like that, the issue is not whether you will have aspects, but how many and how close.

What all this boils down to is that this stuff can be incredibly fascinating, compelling and addictive: but probably not very predictive, because there's too much of a subjective element. This rather reminds me of the problem I have seen with predicting presidential elections. Since I started paying attention to this in 1980, I have noticed the strongest correlation in prediction being that between who is predicted as the winner, and who that astrologer intends to vote for. In other words, predictions are simply wishful thinking! Far too few astrologers are either able or willing to develop truly objective methods that they can use.

So yes: I can Bush-bash with the best of them, and I sincerely hope that he and his cronies get their come-uppance sooner, rather than later. I fervently hope that every day, more Americans realize what an embarrassment he is. But I am reluctant to "read the signs" that way, because I so want it to be true!

paradoxx
05-07-2006, 10:14
Actually I think that the 4th was decided by, shall we say, the powers that be becasue of the 13 degrees cancer. (A shirt I saw one day "Crabby by choice" and a sillohuete of a crab in the blue field.) The asteroids i chose were supposed to be "American" in some way. Anyway, I'm partial to the US Great Seal, June 20, 1782--since my birthday is June 20.

North Korea Launches missles:
Probably a reflection of Mars oppose Neptune, and trine to jupiter. A show of force, probably, and more so a warning, that would be the mars energies at hand. The moon is channeling through libra, a balance of energies and a lot of stuff taking off today, including the Discovery Space Shuttle.

Discovery:
Delayed twice (mercury retrograde shadow) and taking off smoothly, the return trip might be a problem, but a very thorough check of the shuttle before it returns will have to take place, or it could remain in orbit.

Tonights energy:
The moon will be inconjunct to its own north node, 30 libra inconjunct 29 pisces, our emotional states will be at odds with themselves, for many wendsday is the return to work, for some it is the beginning of the holiday weekend, this duality will become prominant throughout the week into next.

Stay focused and alert, important news comes in small packages.

Lynda
06-07-2006, 12:22
Leephd

Yes, there are several charts for the United States and it appears to me that they all work for a variety of reasons. One can argue different times during the day on 4th July or any other date as the United States was emerging as an identity.

The 4th July Independance chart speaks loudly to me about the issues of the U.S. as that date is firmly set in the collective consciousness.

My particular favourite is the Sibley chart, championed by Dane Rudhyar as it's an interesting barometer to watch the unfolding of the American psyche.

leephd
06-07-2006, 21:22
The Sibly Chart (Sag Rising) has probably become the new consensus chart over the Gemini Rising chart since Ronald Reagan's presidency. It's interesting. What Rudhyar doesn't tell anyone about the Sibly chart is what it actually is. If you actually go back to Sibly's work, he derived the date of July 4, 1776 by working with primary directions to get the "perfection" of the approaching Mars-Saturn opposition from the Aries Ingress of 1776. This rather extensive discussion was then illustrated with the woodcut that everybody now assumes was a timed chart.

As has already been noted in this forum, this idea presents difficulties. The July 4th date was not being bruted about the Colonies as a particularly significant date. The astrologers of the period (who most likely would have been working the dockyards doing "ships at sea" horaries and electing times for sea voyages) would most likely not have been rushing around trying to find a member of the Continental Congress to get a time!

Another factor which I have not seen discussed in print was that Sibly, like his earlier colleagues, was a notorious (by modern standards) rectifier. Lilly's natal section of Christian Astrology, like other typical works of the period, gives an extensive section on how to rectify a chart long before he discusses interpreting it. In his Nativities, Gadbury mentions having taken the time of a relative's birth with a pocket watch - as if this were a truly unusual occurrence, which of course it was!

All this is by way of saying that Sibly's discussion has all the earmarks of a post hoc derivation, mostly likely because he wanted to illustrate primaries in a mundane example, and his method "worked out" to July 4th. It is at least as likely that the given time was Sibly's "take" (i.e., rectification) as anything else - especially since the text makes no mention whatsoever of the chart, nor is the chart itself discussed.