French and English interpretation of Swords

alexev

I will show an example about the great difference.

This meaning is taken from an old anonymous Marseilles Tarot french book I own.

Ten of Swords: beginning of the harmonie between the evolved matter and the mental one. agreement, balance, comprénsion
 

kwaw

alexev said:
I will show an example about the great difference.

This meaning is taken from an old anonymous Marseilles Tarot french book I own.

Ten of Swords: beginning of the harmonie between the evolved matter and the mental one. agreement, balance, comprénsion

How old, anonymous maybe, but who published it or printed it and when, what's the title? Ie, any reference at all? Is that an upright or reversed meaning or does it only give singular, either way up meanings? Is it illustrated with any particular version of the Marseille pattern?

Kwaw
 

alexev

printed by Grimaud. About the 1920.s but this kind of meaning is the same I am referring to as 'French' in other books as Marteau´s one.
 

kwaw

Abstract meaning: The beginning of harmony between evolved matter and the things of the mind.
Practical meaning: Agreement, Equilibrium, understanding.

From the LWB accompanying the AncienTarot de Marseille by B.P. Grimaud, with French and English titles copyright 1963. The LWB itself says on the back copyright JM Simon 1969. With a 'depot legal: 2156, 1er trim.' date of 1973.

Some information from the web re;decks issued/published by JM Simon:
quote

J. M. Simon, Paris, France also reissued 'The Grand Tarot Belline', published by the Grimaud Company in 1966. Mr. Simon holds the rights to this deck, although he is not the original artist nor designer. They were designed c. 1863 by 'Magus Edmond' (Edmond Billaudot , 1829-81) and were first published by Magus Belline. Edmond Billaudot (1829-81), who Mlle Le Normand declared in her autobiography as her successor, created his own hand-drawn deck in which he attempted to integrate the Etteilla I correspondences with the Tarot de Marseille and the descriptions and attributes given by Paul Christian in L'homme rouge des Tuileries (1863). These include the now “standard continental” correspondences to the Hebrew letters. The deck itself (c. 1865) was published in 1966 by Grimaud as the Grand Tarot Belline.

In 1969 the Grand Etteilla Egyptian Gypsies Tarot deck and booklet by B. P. Grimaud was published in English by France-Cartes/J.M. Simon (Paris)

In 1969 the Tarot of Marseilles deck and booklet by B. P. Grimaud was published in English by France-Cartes/J.M. Simon (Paris).

end quote

The booklet therefore probably presents those given in the LWB of B.P Grimaud, possibly a summation of those of Paul Marteau, owner of BP Grimaud, as given in his 1948 book Le Tarot de Marseille ? I don't know I haven't read it, just making a guess here. Rather than repeating the meanings of the occult French schools his book has been said to "revolutionizes the way that Tarot card interpretations are generated – through looking closely at the picture details of the cards."

Kwaw
 

alexev

kwaw: yours must be a reprint.

Mine is a little book dating from 1920.s to 1940 at maximum. But your text is the same.
 

kwaw

alexev said:
kwaw: yours must be a reprint.

Mine is a little book dating from 1920.s to 1940 at maximum. But your text is the same.

Well my guess was wrong and the meanings aren't taken from Paul Marteau's 1948 book Le Tarot de Marseille then. Oh.. you posted this before my edit, go back to my previous additions I made to post following a web search to see what I am on about. [Martaue/Grimaud first published their conver reproduction c. 1930?] Is this interpretation to be found in any text prior to the Grimaud LWB's c.1930?

["The beginning of harmony between evolved matter and the things of the mind" sort of reminds me of Henri Bergson's statement regarding Creative Evolution:

"On the other hand, we are able to explain how matter accentuates still more its materiality, when viewed by the mind. Matter, at first, aided mind to run down its own incline; it gave the impulsion. But, the impulsion once received, mind continues its course."


Henri Bergson was of course the brother of Moina Mathers, one of the leading light of the Golden Dawn.]

I still don't think it is a French-English distinction, as said before de Mellet records that swords represent sorrows and misfortune, Papus describes describes swords as respresenting misfortune and says of the 10 of swords that it represents the 'certain continuance of hatred', etc, etc. Both the major French and English occults schools attribute swords to air and 'mentality', there are differences between individual authors, among the French and among English.

Kwaw
 

alexev

Then, I keep wiithout understanding why these both so different meanings.