What are 'rays' and how do different zodiac systems work?

I'm using solar fire and they use 'rays' but I cant find out their purpose.

And also, what are the interpretational differences between the different zodiac methods, such as sideral and tropical? I know Dave was one of a few that used sideral but I wanted to know how different the interpretations were.

Solar Fire

rainwolf said:

I'm using solar fire and they use 'rays' but I cant find out their purpose.

Click to expand...

Esoteric Technologies, the company that created Solar Fire, is owned by two individuals who have training in esoteric astrology. One branch of esoteric astrology follows the work of Alice Bailey, a metaphysician untrained in astrology, but who nevertheless developed a system of astrology based on what were called the Seven Rays. At the moment, the foremost practitioner of that lineage is Alan Oken. Other schools of astrology don't use them.

rainwolf said:

And also, what are the interpretational differences between the different zodiac methods, such as sideral and tropical? I know Dave was one of a few that used sideral but I wanted to know how different the interpretations were.

Click to expand...

If you take into account that probably better than 99% of Siderealists are of the Vedic persuasion, the differences between Vedic and modern Western tropical is huge. The divide is not so large between Vedic and Hellenistic. In other words, the zodiac is merely one facet of a larger set of parameters which go into defining the major schools of astrology.

I think these 'rays' may be the ones described in the Ernest Wood book of 1925 'The Seven Rays'. He expands on the seven-ness of nature to provide a spectrum of human types, correlated with the seven colors and the variety of ways in which human beings seek enlightenment. Fascinating, fascinating reading. Here's a URL: http://www.theosophical.ca/SevenRays.htm#11

Tropical versus western Sidereal

I would like to answer this portion of the question.

While these astrological approaches use a zodiac whose measuring point or starting point is different, almost a whole sign of difference these days, I would suggest that the primary difference for the Fagan-Bradely school of Siderealists is in their practice of astrology rather than the fact that they use two different zodiacs. The Siderealists that I come into contact with use several different forms of charts and interpretive techniques. I'll list these with the understanding that I may or may not be speaking accurately for those in this diverse "school" of practice.

** Ingress charts. Siderealists often cite the Capsolar Ingress, where a chart is cast for the moment and place where Sun enters Sidereal Capricorn. I've used similar charts when doing Tropical Weather Charts such as those used in the system taught by the Church of Light. Siderealists cast these ingress charts for 0 Aries, 0 Cancer and 0 Libra as well, predicting national events and mundane happenings.

** Solar Return charts. I use these and the derivitive progressed daily angle charts almost exclusively. The Sun, at it's point of return, can be charted with specific angles in the chart. These angles progress at a regular rate between one solar return and the next, moving close to 1.25 degrees per day. Following where these angles are and the movement of the planets (transiting, natal and solar) with these angles gives an amazingly accurate picture of ones life. All of my predictive work is done with this method.

** Lunar Return charts. At one time I used to love these charts. Others still do. They show quite nicely the moods and responses to life that one will experience. I don't use these much now, having focused on the solar cycles.

** Fagan explored a number of techniques but I feel that thats just what they were --explorations. I've tried and dropped them.

Having pointed these few differences out, I think it only fair to state that I use a number of methods and have little use for other methods used by many astrologers. Its all part of my "if it doesn't work 100%, throw it out" theory.

For natal charts I use planets, aspects, house -- seldom use signs or even rulers, although I do use them sometimes. I use secondary progressions, solar arc progressions and mid-points. I love Marc Robertson's phase relationships and have used part of his work in my planet-series threads, although I have also done some different work with the inner planets and their different phases. Even in Sidereal practice, I seldom use houses, just angles and aspects and the planets in those angles. I have developed an interpretive scheme for solar return progressed angles that I don't think anyone is aware of -- its been quite helpful to me.

All that being said, I do understand and have used almost every astrological practice except Vedic, have studied with some of the best, and have had fun with astrology for some 35 years. Dave

How did you find books to learn all these schools of thought? Whenever I go to B&N I only see very basic books, mostly 'flashy' feel good books that dont really tell you anything.

Sources of good books

There are some specialty stores around, not as many as there used to be since the big book stores have driven many of them out of business.

I have two sources to find good, interesting books:
1) I subscribe to a couple of astrological magazines. Books are refered to and are advertised or announced there.
2) I go to Barnes and Noble or Amazon and type in an authors name. The search engine pulls up all of their book titles. Some are available. Those that are not are often available thru affiliated used-book sellers. I just picked up Mary Greer's Tarot Mirrors thru a used book seller -- the only place to find this 1980's published book. The week before I picked up one of Marc Robertson's books on phase relationships between planets.

Dave

Hitting the nail on the head

rainwolf said:

How did you find books to learn all these schools of thought? Whenever I go to B&N I only see very basic books, mostly 'flashy' feel good books that dont really tell you anything.

Click to expand...

Welcome to the world of modern publishing! What you are observing is the radical changes that have occurred in small press publishing over the last twenty years. Twenty years ago, a publishing company like Weiser was family-owned (Donald Weiser, the son of Samuel Weiser), and it hired employees actively interested in the subject matter being published. A few years back, Donald and his then wife Betty Lundsted sold Weiser to Redwheel. Is Redhweel an esoteric firm? No. Redwheel is essentially a collector of small presses, and that's the main point. My own publisher started out as Para, which was an esoteric specialty press. They sold out to Whitford, which is a division of Schiffer. Peter Schiffer is a delightful man, but one with no real interest in astrology.

How did these sales happen? The changes associated with Amazon and Walmart have fundamentally changed small publishing. A company like Redwheel or Schiffer benefits (one could almost say survives) through the economy of scale of publishing many books. But part of this economy includes close cost control related to each book. Years ago, Donald Weiser could decide to publish a book because he liked it, because he felt the information was important or unique, or because the author was the best in the field. But that was when they had reps who understood their product line, and could talk to the many bookstores specializing in esoteric materials.

Nowadays, small presses don't seem to have much in the way of reps, and sadly many independent bookstores have disappeared. In inventory by Walmart, everything is about number of sales. Work it out. An introductory book sells way better than an intermediate book, which, in turn, sells better than an advanced one. So what is going to get published?

We won't even include the European story about astrological and other presses getting bought be conservative interests and then "going under."

In the current climate of Reaganomics, how *can* you expect to get detailed information?

There are one or two book sellers who use the internet to obtain more sales and who do cater for the 'specialised' Astrology (or other esoteric) reader.

I use 'The Wessex Astrologer' http://www.wessexastrologer.com/

John Hayes Book Store http://www.johnhayes.biz/store/index.php

Midheaven Book Shop http://www.midheavenbooks.com/

These are UK based but do ship internationally.

http://www.bacchus1.demon.co.uk/Astrobks_links.html gives a list of internet book sources for Astrology (though I doubt this is anywhere near comprehensive).

Whether these enterprises will still survive in 5 - 10 years though, is debatable. So come on and use them before we lose all sources of real information.