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View Full Version : Seeking Clarification on Astrocartography:- Reading exchange


faery
13-08-2006, 05:52
I need some clarification regarding relocation, affirmation that what I am doing is on the right course.

I am seeking a reading exchange for one main area you might also need clarification on. In exchange I can offer a Hawaiian Oracle Reading.

Hope to hear from you soon.

Thanks, the clarification will ease my mind and heart....

I had an astrocartography chart done...but guess what? I don't understand it...

Minderwiz
14-08-2006, 07:32
AstroCartography involves taking your natal details in terms of date and time but altering the place. The effect is to change the house positions of the planets and also your Ascendant and Midheaven. The planets relative positions do not change, so any aspects in your natal chart will still be there in the relocated chart (chart for new place).

Why do this? Two main reasons, firstly you might be considering moving to a specific destination and want to have some idea of how the move will affect you Astrologically.

The second reason is that you might have some feature of your natal chart which you see as a problem and want to reduce the effect - or a feature that you see as too weak and want to strengthen it. I have Saturn in the twelfth, just short of the Ascendant and in Leo, it's detriment. Now there's nothing I can do about Saturn in Leo but by relocating I could come up with a chart which has Saturn less strongly placed. So I look for a location where the chart would give me Saturn in say, the third - I now might have problems with siblings, but as I've moved miles away from them that's not a worry.

I might want to be a successful writer - Mercury on the MC might help this, so I look around to find a place where Mercury would be on the MC at my date and time (allowing for time zone changes) of birth.

Now that would be a really awkward process, like trying to find the proverbial needle in a haystack. Luckily there is software that will do this for me by tracing the position of Mercury in relation to the world at this time. I can thus find where Mercury is at any location in the world at the time of my birth. There will be several that meet the criterion of Mercury on the MC.

I could look for places where Venus is on the cusp of the seventh or fifth (to improve my chances of love and romance) or if I fancy a highly competitive career, Mars on the MC.

There is a downside of this though. I might find the place where I will have a good chance of being a successful writer but if Mercury has bad aspects to other planets it might still not come to pass. Even if it does, I might have improved my chart in one direction but find it's worsened in another - moving Uranus into the Seventh and increasing my chances of a divorce - I spend so much time writing my wife leaves me.

It's virtually impossible to improve one thing in the chart without making something else worse. Some people may still go for this move and accept the cost.

If you've had a chart done, the chances are you've got a map of the world with some wavy lines on it and also some vertical lines for it. Each line represents a planet and it's position in the chart - Such as Mars on the Ascendant or Neptune on the MC. These give you the places where the desired characteristic occurs - you then choose which one you fancy. Some places may meet your desired planetary placement but be unsuitable - they lie in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, or in the Sahara Desert or in Iraq. So the choices will be reduced and indeed you might prefer to live where you are now than in the possible choices available to you. There are other reasons for choosing a place to live than Astrology. If I wanted Mercury on the MC, I have to move to Alaska - I think, I'd rather stay where I am! (Sorry to members in Alaska :) )

Of course this also depends on the theory that relocating will lead to some parts of your chart 'improving' and therefore affecting your life It's not a universally accepted view.

faery
14-08-2006, 08:35
Thankyou for the very interesting in depth reply. I have the chart, but I feel unable to interpret it. Right now, I am considering an interim move, from one part of England, to the other - and naturally feel slightly cautious as to the effects of such on my life. It would be preferable to know this in advance if possible.

I have lived in the same town all of my life, and feel I would receive different opportunities by relocation (in addition to the obvious interpretation of it being a different town with new opportunities).

I originally felt I was to move abroad, but that is quite difficault given that I have two teenage sons from a marriage that ended in divorce. I also have not felt a calling before trying to consciously persue the move now. If I am armed with some information astrologically, it may all help.

Thankyou

Faery

Minderwiz
14-08-2006, 20:36
If you are moving a short distance (and within England is a short distance in world terms), You will probably find that the difference to house positions produces no major significance.

If you want to pm your natal details and probable area of relocation I can give you a little feedback on possible effects.

leephd
14-08-2006, 22:42
If you are moving a short distance (and within England is a short distance in world terms), You will probably find that the difference to house positions produces no major significance.

Minderwiz is right. The distances represented withn England are not great enough to produce a sgnificant effect - especially as the major effect in ACG is when you shift longitude, not so much latitude.

A while back, I got interested in finding out just how great the effect of relocation actually is. My personal experience was that when you travel to visit a place, the effect can be quite dramatic, as when I visit London, where my Mars-Pluto conjuncton is nearly exact in ACG.

What I chose to do is look at US baseball players and their statistics, studying trades that involved moves that were shorter or longer in distance. In theory, because of the way ACG is calculated, the greater the distance moved, the greater the magnitude of the relocation effect. As I was looking for CHANGE in statistics, whether the move produced a positive or a negative effect didn't matter. The result: nothing. You can read the full study on my web site, if you're interested.

I think that this means that when we visit a place, we have all the impact of or ACG lines there come crashing down on our ears, so to speak. But if we relocate there, over time, the birth chart re-asserts itself. Ask yourself this question: how many astrologers drop the use of the natal chart in favor of the relocated chart? Not many, if any. That might give you a clue.

faery
14-08-2006, 22:57
Thankyou for your reply. That is strange that a visit to a place produces so many effects, but a relocation does not? Although I assume if I moved overseas that might change?

Faery

Minderwiz
15-08-2006, 00:59
Ask yourself this question: how many astrologers drop the use of the natal chart in favor of the relocated chart? Not many, if any. That might give you a clue.

I suspect that in Europe this is more likely to be the result of the small distances involved in relocation rather than a conscious appraisal of the evidence. In the US where mobility of a far greater distance is more common, things may well be as Lee suggests.

I've not read Lee's research (Sorry Lee, I'll have a look ASAP) but I rather suspect she is right. Change by it's very nature seems to have most of it's effects early on and then there is some gradual return to normality. This would make sense Astrologically as well as in other areas of life.

I have a friend, who used to live across the road from us. She relocated to Long Island, New York about six years ago. For the few charts that I have done for her since her move I have tried both a relocated chart and the natal chart and I've found that the relocated chart works better when considering transits and progressions.

This should not be taken as any evidence against Lee's hypothesis, it's more likely it supports the hypothesis of an impact early on in the relocation and statistically there are bound to be some people where the short term effect lasts longer than for others - the statistician in me is dying to look at Lee's evidence at this point*.

Before I go and look, just one further point in the move within England. I have the Moon 6 minutes from an exact conjunction with my Descendant. If I more some 360 miles South into Cornwall, this will bring the Moon into exact conjunction. 6 minutes of arc in 360 miles is an almost minimal effect.

* - I teach statistics to business studies students and remeber the surprise I felt when I read Lee's book on Essential Dignities. Here was someone who did not throw psychobabble at me but presented me with statistical analysis of Astrological issues - Great!!

faery
15-08-2006, 02:15
Thankyou so much. I had always suspected I might have to move further to create changes. When I travel, I tend to travel far, rather than short distances, to create greater new possibilities. I know, of course, many people who move within UK, and do find new opportunities, but from what you are saying astrologically, they would still be working through the same aspects of their birth chart?

faery
15-08-2006, 02:22
I cannot find the information Lee mentions on the site.

Another thought:- I am on the cusp re: my rising sign...does that mean it might make that bit of difference with a smaller move? When some people do my chart I am Cancer rising, and others I am Leo rising....

Thanks

Faery

Minderwiz
15-08-2006, 03:28
Faery,

I struggled to find it but here's the link

http://www.leelehman.com/Baseball_hp.html

If your Ascendant is in the first degree of Leo, then a move within the UK may well change your Ascendant. A move further afield increases the chances but don't forget that in it could also increase your degree of Leo, instead of shifting back into Cancer.

faery
15-08-2006, 03:50
Thankyou for that. I will take a look.

It would make alot of sense if that were the case. When I am around my home town where I was born (and still reside currently), I do tend to carry alot of Cancer sign traits, and when away, I tend to be more Leo like.....

I find when I am away, my resolve for action is strong, and when I return, it tends to dwindle in favour of Cancer type pursuits.

So if your rising sign is where you are headed, and where a great deal of learning is, it would make sense, if you are on the cusp, to relocate to a place that would shift that into full Leo mode (if that is what is desired)...?

Minderwiz
15-08-2006, 06:21
It's difficult to be precise without your natal details but please remember that what relocation giveth with one hand it taketh away with the other. It is not necessarily better to sacrifice Cancer for Leo (or vice versa). Moreover your Descendant would change in these circumstances and that might have an affect on your relationships and partnerships which you end up seeing as undesirable. You would have Aquarius on the Descendant and possibly (all other things being equal) a more detached attitude to relationships, which your partner(s) might not see as a particularly positive trait compared to the long term connection of a Capricorn. I'm not going to overplay that (I've a Leo Ascendant/Aquarius on the Descendant and I've been married for 30 years - and to a Cancer Ascendant Capricorn descendant woman).

However these are not the only changes that might occur, other cusps might change and so you might have an accumulation of small changes, which overall affect your behaviour. Within the UK I'd say these would be quite small but if you accept relocation as a theory these changes could have an effect that you don't want.

leephd
15-08-2006, 23:30
Thankyou for your reply. That is strange that a visit to a place produces so many effects, but a relocation does not? Although I assume if I moved overseas that might change?

Possibly. This relocation business is really a many-layered thing. There's the relocated chart, whch is doing your birth chart for the longitude and latitude of where you are. Then there's the Astrocartography. Then there's the Local Space, which is an entirely different charting system, based on projecting your birth planets into actual compass directons. Then there's Feng shui. Then there's everything else. Consider, for example, how one's experience of even a small town is affected by where in the town you might be: there's the house, the garden, the neighborhood, the terrain, the view, the prevailing wind, the exposure - all of these can have massive effects on your experience of the place, yet none of them can translate into astrological lines.

And yet, I will tell you that on some level, the lines work, even given my study. I have simply had too much feedback from people about this. The lines work. But maybe, they don't solve your problems. Maybe, you cannot run away from your birthchart. But maybe you can be distracted from it long enough to develop some new habits.

faery
15-08-2006, 23:52
Thankyou. That is very interesting. So the astrocartography map could also be projected onto just the UK to get some indepth advice? If this is possible, I would love to know where I could have this done. Eventually I hope to move abroad, but if I can improve my situation by a move within the UK, as an interim move, this would be so helpful to me.

On a personal level, there are too many memories for me. I have changed alot, but within a small town, people often see you as who you were growing up. On a practical level, it is a small market town, without a huge number of opportunities whatsoever.

Minderwiz
16-08-2006, 00:46
Thankyou. That is very interesting. So the astrocartography map could also be projected onto just the UK to get some indepth advice? If this is possible, I would love to know where I could have this done. .


Yes and No. The planetary paths can and are projected onto the map of the world by various pieces of software (I've got two programs that will do this and Lee probably has much more sophisticated software for this). It depends on what system of measurement you use for relocation issues and how sophisticated your software is, as to how many lines you might get in the UK.

So there is a possibility that you might find the UK a 'barren' area. However if you are really keen try to find an Astrologer who has the necessary software and knowledge rather than simply a website that will give you a relocation map for your natal details. There are so many issues that are connected to the move that software alone is not really much use. You need someone to discuss the detail with.

Edited to add: Accuracy of birth time is important here. An error of a 10 minutes or so can move a planetary line a fair distance. For example in my case shifting my birth time by around 13 minutes moves my Saturn Ascendant line from around an entry into the UK at Southampton to an entry around Looe in Cornwall and my Moon Descendant line from around Looe to being out in the Atlantic. So before you pay any money or make any decisions make sure you have an accurate time, otherwise it could be a waste of time and money.

There's more room for error on a worldwide basis but accuracy is always best.