Bye Bye Pluto?

Minderwiz

Astronomers are holding a conference today which may well result in a definition of what a planet is (they haven't got one at the moment).

The main reason for this is the recent discovery of 'Xena' or to give it it's current designation, 2003 UB313. This has been discussed here before:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=45569&highlight=Xena

As Xena is some 70 miles longer in diameter than Pluto, then if Pluto is a planet Xena should be one. However despite initial claims when it was discovered, Pluto is actually much smaller than the other planerts - indeed it is smaller than the Moon. Astronomers have shied away from downgrading it in the past but are now faced with the dilemma of classifying Xena. If Xena is not a planet then Pluto must be downgraded. There are also known to be a number of Kuyper belt objects that need a clear classification and as Pluto is really one of these bodies, this gives the opportunity to have a clear classification of bodies orbiting the Sun.

There is an interesting article at:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,,1844051,00.html

Two Interesting comments in the article are that Astrologers are likely to be most upset if Pluto loses its status as a planet. I would guess that actually most of the world's Astrologers don't use it and never used it - the minority of users being Western proponents of a 'psychological approach' to Astrology.

The second comment is that Astronomers are more likely to keep Pluto as a planet and declare Xena the 10th planet. So much for their much vaunted claim that Astronomy is based on hard science rather than the 'sentimental anthropomorphic views of Astrologers.'

Sky News reports that the Astronomer's conference may also deal with the issue of Ceres, which also has some support for some form of planetary status.

Will it affect Astrological practice - my view would be that it will not, Vedic and Traditional Astrologers will continue to ignore the outer planets (however defined) and Asteroids, Asteroid users will continue to use Ceres and feel that their approach now has scientific backing, and Psycholigcal Astrologers will feel that this whole issue is clearly a Plutonian moment, a destruction of current othrodoxies - proving plutos value as a planet.

I'd be inetersted in the views of other members
 

star-lover

this is not my view but jonathan cainers

quote

For some while a debate has been raging among scientists about the new discovery, Xena. Is it a planet? Is it an asteroid? Some people have been seriously suggesting it is not a planet - and neither is Pluto, even though it has been treated as such for over 75 years. Top astronomers are now meeting to decide this thorny question. It looks as if they are about to confirm that Pluto is a planet and that they will also confer full planetary status on Xena. Surprisingly they also look set to give planetary status to Ceres, the large body discovered in 1801, plus Charon, Pluto's "moon". This is amazing. It implies many things including an imminent breakthrough in the technology of nuclear fusion. I will explain more tomorrow.

unquote

personally I will still continue to use pluto in astrology
 

firecatpickles

I for one cannot wait to hear news, either way. It will be an excellent opportunity for us to study scientific method in my classroom! This is what it's all about: constantly weighing options and discussing/reviewing evidence.

Not a classroom topic, I was wondering if this would affect astrology and astrologists, but then I remembered that you guys have been watching Chiron --not a planet-- and other non-planetary bodies for years, such as the Moon, Sun and Nodes.

Someone please post here whn the news is out!

K:spade:K
 

HOLMES

wouldn't it be as easy as two options

1. call xena the famous planet x theory ..

2. or simply give all plutos meanings to xena.
i alwasy wonder how they know pluto exact size for it is so far away it must bigger then that to count for its presence..

or was all that magnetic pull given to pluto which lead to its discovery all xena..
 

firecatpickles

I think that the atronomers will use "staris decisii" (sp?) and use Pluto's qualities to define planetary objects. Pluto has an atmosphere and three moons. IMHO, if that's not a planet, then I don't know what is! But then again, I am not an astronomer (a.k.a. "space-body-namer").

KK
 

Minderwiz

Pluto to Pluton

The Guardain is now reporting that Pluto will still be called a planet, as the result of the Astronomer's Conference.

Pluto, it's companion Charon and Xena will be called 'planets' but of a special type called 'plutons' - more bodies may well be added to this category, including bodies such as Sedna, which have also featured in this forum.

The asteroid Ceres also looks likely to be given planetary status if these proposals go through.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,,1851323,00.html

Ceres and Pluto (including Charon) are well covered by ephemerides and computer software but watch for a rush of Xena ephemerides and Xena add-ons to computer programs.

Edited to add:

The BBC have a slightly fuller report at:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4795755.stm

It seems that candidate planets are now forming an orderly queue to achieve recognition. Asteroid watchers may well be interested that this queue features Vesta, Pallas and Hygiea,

There will soon be more planets than you can shake a telescope at. Luckily there will ba a main classification of 'classical planets' and I think I'll stick to these (even though they do include Uranus and Neptune) :)

Watch for the vote at next week's conference of the IAU when these proposals are presented.

Incidentally if Charon is to be a fully fledged planet - could we now identify Pluto/Charon with schizonphrenia? or Kuyper belt objects with multiple personalities? })
 

stardancer

Astronomical Definitions and 12 Planets?

THE MEANING OF PLANET: What is a planet? For years, astronomers have been debating that question, with the status of tiny Pluto hanging in the balance. Finally, an answer is in the offing. The International Astronomical Union's Planet Definition Committee has proposed a new, official definition:

"A planet is a celestial body that (a) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape, and (b) is in orbit around a star, and is neither a star nor a satellite of a planet." [full text]

In plain language, if it's round and it orbits the Sun, then it's a planet.

On August 24th, astronomers gathered at the IAU General Assembly in Prague will vote on the proposal, yea or nay. If it passes, the Solar System will have twelve planets: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Ceres, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and Charon (a double planet) and 2003 UB313.

More links and info here:
http://spaceweather.com/
 

stardancer

Hi. I didn't see this before I posted info in another thread.

I already use a few asteroids anyway (Ceres not among them) and don't use Chiron at all (not to be confused with Charon). I'd have to wait for further study. What I use now works quite well.
 

Nightbird

I'm not an astrologer, but I hope they don't demote Pluto. it's my favorite planet!