View Full Version : What is stronger?

03-10-2006, 22:00
By your opinion,what is stronger position?Example-if we have Venus in Scorpio with minor aspects,or if we have Venus aspected by Pluto with major aspect.Which of those two will be stronger position?
We can apply this example to to anyone else.no mater which planet is in a question.

04-10-2006, 20:45
Planets strongly aspecting planets are stronger influences than a planet it a sign with minor minor aspects. I often use a value-scale of this nature, 1 to 10 with 20 being the strongest influence.

10: Personal planet in major aspect to a planet out to Saturn, both angular.
9: Personal planet in minor aspect to a planet out to Saturn, both angular.
8. Personal planet in major aspect to a planet out to Saturn, one angular.
7. Planet in minor aspect to a planet, one angular.
6. Planet in a major aspect to a planet.
5. Planet in a minor aspect to a planet.
4. Planet in a house.
3. House ruling planet angular
2. --
1. Sign influences.


05-10-2006, 01:38
What do you mean by "both angular" or "one angular", Dave?

For example, my Sun in Pisces 12 6' squares my Moon in Sagittarius 12 14'

Which one is angular, and why?

How does the angularity of an aspect make that aspect stronger?

05-10-2006, 04:55
The term "angularity" as I have used it, and which I think is relatively common usage, refers not to the aspect but to the location of a planet relative to the key angles of the chart -- ASC, MC, DSC, IC. The closer a planet is to these angles, the stronger that planet's influence tends to be. Should, for example, a chart have an MC of 5 Pisces and an ASC of 3 Cancer (close to a trine) one planet could be "angular" (such as Jupiter at 3 Pisces) while another planet at 6 Gemini would have a square aspect to Jupiter but would not be angular.

Not known by many early-studies students is that a "paran-square" is very strong even though it may not measurably be near a 90-dgree angle. Whenever two planets are near two adjancent angles, they may constitute a paran-square. For example, an MC of 5 Sag and an ASC of 15 Aquarius. With the Sun at 7 Sag and the Moon at 17 Aquarius (both bodies about 2 degrees past their nearby angle) they would be in a paran-square and express themselves very strongly -- even though many astrologers would say they are not in any conventional aspect relationship.

Dave (who always tends to answer with more than you needed to know).

05-10-2006, 20:26
Thanks, Dave - that makes sense, although I think I'll leave information about paran-squares at the back of my mind for now ;).

Just to make sure I've got it right then, in your opinion, two planets in aspect that also have angles form the strongest influence on a person's chart? Does it matter what sign those planets are in when in comes to understanding how the influence is expressed?

05-10-2006, 21:30
Helvetica, some planets express themselves clearly in some signs -- but that "expression" (like many things in an astrological chart) varies from individual to individual. You may have noted in the past that I have said that not everyone responds to every factor in their chart. I don't seem to relate to Pluto at all. Some people can't find clear connections to Mercury when it is close to the Sun. Some planets like Mars and Saturn are hard to ignore. It varies.

So, some planets, when near one of the four angles, and when also part of a strong aspect pattern, may or may not also express the sign they are in. I don't see a hard and fast rule except that it is an individual rule. This is what the astrologer has to discover when doing a chart, why it is important to have a dialog so that you can concentrate on what works. Dave

06-10-2006, 05:37
I want to add something to my question.To clarify things there.I mentioned-what is stronger.But,precisely I wanted to compare things.We know that there are three positions among astrological signs,that are strong and leading.Lets say that they are connected to signs Aries,Leo and Scorpio.Also to first,fifth and eight houses.Those are strong positions.
But I wanted to compare.What if we find any planet there,but not strongly aspected,or minorly aspected,or not aspected at all?And then to compare some other planet placed in any other sign or house(that are not among those three strong ones).What if we find some planet there(in those weaker positions),that is strongly aspected,specially strongly aspected by powerful planets,like Mars or Pluto or receives a life ray from Sun?Would that planet be stronger then any of those placed in strong positions,but minorly aspected?
I`m prepared to clarify my question more if needed.
Dave and Helvetica,I appreciate your thoughts.

06-10-2006, 07:21
It is my opinion that each of our individual birth charts are first and foremost defined by the time and location of birth -- in other words, the four angles and the house system forms the framework for our chart! If our moment of birth is very important to us, each of us, then the angles and the houses are highly important.

So, what about signs. No one sign, no three signs (such as Aries, Leo, Scorpio) are more important than any other. They are each a sequential and intragal part of the whole set of signs, a system of meaning that is bound up by the whole "statement" or description that they provide. Since the signs (for those who use the Tropical zodiac -- most of those on this list) are defined by the Earth-Sun plane and the Earth's axis-tilt relative to that plane, the signs are subservient to the season of the year we are born into as well as the time of the day that we are born.

Now, what about the planets. The planets are part of our solar system, they are physical bodies that exert various influences upon the Earth and upon us. This is different from the signs which are spatial constructs that are dependant upon the Earth's axis tilt and orbital relationship to the Sun -- this makes the seasonal ebb-and-flow a possible general influence, but not the signs themselves. The signs, then, can be said to be a derivative influence in this context. The planets have energies of expression, their presence and movement in our chart can be quite easily seen and felt. Dave