When the images are different....

Two questions...

When the images are different from one deck to another - does that change the meanings as well? i.e. 9 of swords in the RWS clones show a woman sitting up in bed as if awoken from a nightmare or something very deep is troubling her. I have the Tarot of Durer and the 9 of Swords shows nothing even close to an image like that, but of a man sitting in a chair cleaning/polishing hsi swords.

Intuitively, I would assume the meaning changes? I absolutely love the artistry in this deck and feel this would be a great deck to do readings with. However, so many of the drawings resemble the RWS, but then there are some that are completely different. The LWB interpretations on some of the cards are very different from the "standard" as well.

Does that mean that everything I have learned about the 9 of Swords would not have any bearing if I were using this other deck for a reading because the image is so different?

And for those where the image is an RWS clone, but the interpretation in the LWB is different, which way does the meaning of the card go? (Am I right in assuming in this case that it becomes an intuition thing?)

LP~

This is where the LWB fails, I believe. Since each deck will always differ in style, the interpretation of the cards will be different, especially those decks that heavily rely on imagery to illustrate a particular divinatory meaning.

For example, I read that the Magician in the RWS means the channelling of creative energy and forces, taking charge and mastering of talents, while the Thoth deck reveals the Magician as the transcendence of an earthly manifestation of a certain talent into a deeper understanding of the self. The images are totally different, influenced by different things, and yet the only single retination made is their titles.

In these types of problems, the solution is to either stick to one deck, or use intuition, for each deck must be treated differently and accordingly. I would not try to apply the same meaning, for example, of cards between my Thoth and my RWS; both are entirely different and deservingly so to have same interpreted meanings.

God bless!
wheeloffortune

wheeloffortune said:

In these types of problems, the solution is to either stick to one deck, or use intuition, for each deck must be treated differently and accordingly. I would not try to apply the same meaning, for example, of cards between my Thoth and my RWS; both are entirely different and deservingly so to have same interpreted meanings.

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I completely understand why and agree with not comparing the meanings of a Thoth to an RWS style deck. Did I go and get myself involved with a Thoth-based deck and not know it?

LixiPixi said:

Two questions...

When the images are different from one deck to another - does that change the meanings as well?

And for those where the image is an RWS clone, but the interpretation in the LWB is different, which way does the meaning of the card go?

Click to expand...

The way I see it there is a spectrum of methods of reading tarot. At one end of the spectrum is intuition - receiving impressions from the images on the cards and at the other end is agreed meanings as outlined in books. Most folks will be somewhere in between the two ends of the spectrum, although there will also be those at either end.

So the answer to the first question is yes and no. Yes for those who read more intuitively and no for those who prefer to read by the book.

Similarly for the second question the answer will depend on where one's reading style is on the spectrum. The more intuitive reader will go with the image and the reader who prefers book meanings will go with the meaning in the LWB.

Which ever feels right to the individual is the right way to go.

As always, your mileage may vary.

I'm so glad you asked this question, LixiPixi, because I've been having trouble trying to put into words this very problem...

I've lately been using the Tarot of the White Cats, which is a RWS clone, and which I enjoy very much for its faithfulness (for the most part) to Smith's original images, as well as its charm. For the 2 of Wands, though, the artist has added a clouded sky, which at first I wasn't sure what to do with. I've come to think of it as perhaps signifying the unfinished projects aspect of the card (a meaning I believe I have an AT forum member to thank for, if I'm not mistaken )... indicating that things aren't "quite clear yet."

I've often been puzzled when comparing cards between decks, but i'm starting to lean toward a take-each-card-as-it-comes kind of approach...meaning I stay with a generalized meaning but expand it with whatever other imagery the artist offers. I hope I said that clearly...

LixiPixi said:

I completely understand why and agree with not comparing the meanings of a Thoth to an RWS style deck. Did I go and get myself involved with a Thoth-based deck and not know it?

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No, lol. I think your deck is pretty much a RWS clone. But as the many others have said, it is up to you whether you take the book meanings or intuitive meanings, or like some of us, use both and settle in compromise.

I mean, although a card may have the same meaning, different people will always have a different understanding of that meaning, and thus interpretations will always differ anyways.

Just plod along and if you wish, study in both senses and compare the meanings of the same cards to each other... I did that with my Thoth and Universal Waite, and I have a deeper understanding of what each card means in synthesis with each other. Not only do I have a basic understanding of what they mean by the book, I also now have the power of intuition to interpret them as well in relation to the other cards.

Hope that helps!

-wheeloffortune

Might I suggest also reading Mary Greers' 21 ways to read a tarot card? It will help you find your style and then you can apply that style to what ever deck you read with. I read with the International Icon Tarot right now (RWS clone), but I find more and more that I prefer to use number/suit/element to the minors than accepted meanings. I find that I often call up the accepted meanings, but don't like them. I find that my understanding of the number and element gives me more to work with. Hmmmmm....I might just be ready for decorated pips after christmas.

Jen

LixiPixi said:

Two questions...

When the images are different from one deck to another - does that change the meanings as well? LP~

Click to expand...

For me, it does. That's one reason I have more than one RWS based deck. However, you can read the card anyway you want--or anyway that fits the situation in the spread.

One thing you might want to know: there's a difference between RWS clones and RWS based decks. RWS clones are pretty much copies of the original RWS with changes maybe in coloring or in perspective or mood. Hanson Roberts, for example, is an RWS clone. RWS based decks follow the basic structure of RWS, but that's it. The individual cards, especially in the minors, may wander quite far from RWS. The Durer is an RWS based deck, not a clone. It follows some European traditional meanings for some of the cards.

LixiPixi said:

Does that mean that everything I have learned about the 9 of Swords would not have any bearing if I were using this other deck for a reading because the image is so different?
LP~

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In my opinion, that which you have already learned is a base upon which to build. For example, the images are very different in the two versions of the 9S, but they are both ways to deal with a horrific problem.

LixiPixi said:

And for those where the image is an RWS clone, but the interpretation in the LWB is different, which way does the meaning of the card go? (Am I right in assuming in this case that it becomes an intuition thing?)

LP~

Click to expand...

I expect most people use a combination of intuition, experience and preference.

Many people sometimes or always disregard ANY information that comes with the deck either because they disagree with the author or because they would rather interpret the deck using their intuition and experience.

Others will follow the book in whole or in part as a matter of principle or because they agree with the author.

Some, like me, are entertained by variations. I read meanings for fun. If they're useful, I'll probably remember them. If not, I probably won't.

Thank you all for your responses. You've eased a concern that's been on my mind quite a bit lately. I love Mary Greer's books, and the 21 Ways to Read Tarot has been on my mental list of books to get - I will definitely do so now.

At this point, I'm one of those that is a happy medium between intuition and the book. I tend to go with my first impression of a card the moment that I turn it over. I'm working diligently on not relying on the books/LWB interpretations now that I have a good idea of the "general" meanings for the cards. I'll only refer to the book if my mind draws a complete blank.

The explanation of differences between an RWS clone and an RWS based deck has been very helpful. I've officially learned something new with that one

Sascha - I'm glad my question was able to help you as well. I'm right there with you on the "take-each-card-as-it-comes" method. That's the one that seems to make most sense to me, that's why I felt the need to post my question. Now I can say I don't feel that I've been doing it the "wrong" way. It's nice to know there is a sort of flexibility to each deck.

Thank you all again for easing my concerns!

LP~

my view is strictly my own, but if the artist has said that s/he is basing the deck on Rider Waite, then I would treat nine swords as signifying anxiety in some sense and bring that perspective to the image of a guy polishing swords (which I have not seen yet) and consider how it might fit.

zb