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Milfoil
04-11-2006, 03:44
Personally, I doubt anyone who has researched such things ever has considered it such since the traditional and accepted image of a phalic symbol on a warrior would be shown in an erect position to indicate fertility and vigour. This is neither which is why it is generally accepted to be a sword.

Rosanne
04-11-2006, 07:11
So thats what the dog is about to seize! No wonder the Syrians called Orion Al Jabbar -The Giant. Could be why Artemis fell in love with him mind you. It makes sense when one thinks of Osiris and the search for his bits that Seth cut up. Would have been easy to find. Thanks for the ....um well heads up does not seem right?...um ..information :D ~Rosanne

Fulgour
04-11-2006, 10:37
NOTE: This Post Began the Thread
The recent glitch scrambled things a bit.

*

To actually see what I mean here you really need to go out
and get a good look at Orion and then you'll see...his penis.

I do not know if it is the cold and clear autumn mornings,
or if my starry eyes have developed a wicked imagination,
but the other morn I was stopped in my tracks in wonder.

The attachment below will help you locate the precise area,
usually known as the Orion Nebula, or Sword of Orion. >:eek:<

Has anyone ever tried to imagine someone wearing a sword
in such a manner... and don't just look at the attachement,
because to see it in the sky all by itself it's as clear as day.

Gayla
04-11-2006, 11:01
Fulgour...:) How erotic is that....you are making me blush.

Rainbow Aurora
04-11-2006, 13:23
To actually see what I mean here you really need to go out
and get a good look at Orion and then you'll see...
Rainbow busies herself on the web discovering
where to look and what time she should set the alarm
clock for tomorrow morning for the best view!

Fulgour... words fail me!! :bugeyed:

Rainbow

Rosanne
04-11-2006, 20:47
Well I have just come inside from watching Orion's Sign with a telescope. Well as I am in the country away from City lights- I really did not need the telescope to see the nebula M42- but it was amazing.
Now Fulgour you know I have always thought of Orion as the Fool- you have just confirmed it for me. This what my star map book says of this...
[i] THE GREAT NEBULA M42 : This star nursery (get the pun?), one of the marvels of the night sky, is also known as the *Orion Nebula*. Plainly visible to the naked eye under a dark sky, it can be clearly seen with binoculars in the City. The swirls of Nebulosity spread out from it core of four stars called the *Trapezium*, which power the nebula.
I have attached photo of said nebula. It is as if taken from Orions head looking down. ~Rosanne

kwaw
04-11-2006, 20:55
Now Fulgour you know I have always thought of Orion as the Fool- you have just confirmed it for me. ~Rosanne

I agree, fits in with Orion as Fool perfectly:) Orion's penis has been commented upon before, for instance see Orion's Penis by Rehman Rashid [2001) here:

http://www.magickriver.net/op.htm

Kwaw

cheekyminx
04-11-2006, 21:11
Did someone say penis? ;)

Oh my, definitely a phallic symbol lol

kwaw
04-11-2006, 21:15
An excerpt from Written in the Stars:


"Orion!" Several voices responded.
"That's right. Orion, the hunter. These four stars make up his body." Charles reluctantly relinquished his grasp on Aurora and pointed to the stars. Her softly mewed protest went straight to his groin. "This bright star located at his knee is Rigel. It's the seventh brightest star in our nighttime sky. Below, the Orion Nebula is part of his belt and sword. It's...
"Is it true that it wasn't his sword at first? But his penis?"
"Hazel! How could you?" Mabel complained.
"I'm so embarrassed!" wailed Harriet.
"Grow up, girls. Penis, vagina, breasts, buttocks ... everybody here knows who's got what and where it goes."
"Oh, Lordy..."
"Professor Charles? His sword?" Hazel asked again.
Charles felt Aurora's hands leave the side of his hips, and under the cover of his suit jacket, she slipped her fingers into the edge of his front pockets. Sweat beaded his upper lip. He wanted to remove his jacket but didn't dare. Dark or not, the bulge in his pants was sure to draw attention, and all this talk of penises certainly wasn't helping. "Well, ah, yes. When the constellations were first identified, it was before man had fashioned steel swords. I have heard that Orion's sword was originally considered..." His heavy, throbbing dick. "...his, uh, phallus. Moving on..."

excerpt from Written in the stars:
http://www.larissalyons.com/written.htm


Beth Hagens in 'Timber of the Sphere' also refers to it as his sword or penis:
http://www.oicm.umontreal.ca/cim05/cim05_articles/HAGENS_B_CIM05.pdf

The sword as penis can also be found in the vedas and in japanese mythology.

Kwaw

gregory
05-11-2006, 00:34
The swirls of Nebulosity spread out from it core of four stars called the *Trapezium*, which power the nebula.

And the swirls of nebulosity would be... :?: :eek:

Fulgour
05-11-2006, 00:53
And the swirls of nebulosity would be... :?: :eek:It's nothing pornographic when you see the little stars,
but here's a fantastic telescope shot of the "Nebula..."

http://vis.sdsc.edu/research/images/orion/stereo/pocket2_1.jpg

Barbaras Ahajusts
05-11-2006, 01:44
My grandson's name is Orion. His Uncle got to name him. He wanted to give him a strong name, Orion Anthony.

I normally have to have some fun with other peoples, "nebula/sword" but because of the name, Orion, I have to set this one out.

But boy howdy is Orion going to get a huge a*s kick out of this one! :laugh:

Granny Barb ;)

Tristram Shandy
05-11-2006, 06:03
Personally, I doubt anyone who has researched such things ever has considered it such since the traditional and accepted image of a phalic symbol on a warrior would be shown in an erect position to indicate fertility and vigour. This is neither which is why it is generally accepted to be a sword.
I thought it was generally accepted as a belt. The Book of Job calls the stars as the cords of Orion, which is something belt-like, too. The stars don't look like a sword at all, they could be a knife at most.

Rosanne
05-11-2006, 06:53
I thought it was generally accepted as a belt. The Book of Job calls the stars as the cords of Orion, which is something belt-like, too. The stars don't look like a sword at all, they could be a knife at most.
Hi Tristram, it is not the belt we are talking about. The three stars that make up the belt (and are reflected in alignment of Pyramids) are above the the Nebula M42. If you look at a map of Orion the belt is where Orion's waist is- go down to where you think his groin is and there is his Penis and the Nebula. Art depictions have a sword sitting there hanging across his groin -sort of. ~Rosanne

kwaw
05-11-2006, 09:12
I thought it was generally accepted as a belt. The Book of Job calls the stars as the cords of Orion, which is something belt-like, too. The stars don't look like a sword at all, they could be a knife at most.

It is the sword, not the belt; however the belt too has been thought of as a penis too, for example the erect penis of the Egyptian god Min, also associated with Orion. The association of the 'sword' as penis is ancient - it can be found in japanese myth for example, and in the vedas the god of heaven [Dyaut Pitai - Deus Pater - Jupiter] takes the form of the the gazelle [an image of Orion in the vedas] to rape his daughter, and she chews on his 'sword' and she vomits up worlds/creatures [or something like that, I am paraphrasing from memory].

Kwaw

Rainbow Aurora
06-11-2006, 02:18
So, this happy, cheerful and interesting thread
is reduced to soft smut reading material and just
throw in some incest, rape and oral sex for good
measure.

Thank you Kwaw

Barbaras Ahajusts
06-11-2006, 02:30
So, this happy, cheerful and interesting thread
is reduced to soft smut reading material and just throw in some incest, rape and oral sex for good measure. Thank you Kwaw

Ahhh for pete's sake. I guess adults sharing knowledge gleamed from litature is not acceptable?
Sharing is learning.
The story was gross, but it still stands, as it is, as information on a learning forum.

Barbara

sweet_intuition
06-11-2006, 02:36
Penis Schmenis! ... :P

Rainbow Aurora
06-11-2006, 02:42
I guess adults sharing knowledge gleamed from litature is not acceptable?kwaw wrote: "[or something like that, I am paraphrasing from memory]."
I've no such memories, so perhaps he will refresh his here for us today?

Barbaras Ahajusts
06-11-2006, 02:44
Ahhh!
Mother always said to beware the sword or was it th penis? I can't remember, I'm to old. ;)

Now that Nebula shot was truly beautiful! I am guessing the colors of that one planet in the Sword/Penis is the gasses from the Nebula? I am going to brighten that pic and use it as a background pic for my pc!

Beware! :laugh:

Barb

prudence
06-11-2006, 03:01
So, this happy, cheerful and interesting thread
is reduced to soft smut reading material and just
throw in some incest, rape and oral sex for good
measure.

Thank you Kwaw
I know!!!

It's like we can't even look at a thread about Penis Nebulas without being bombarded by dicks and oral copulation. :D


Thanks kwaw. :D

kwaw
06-11-2006, 03:08
So, this happy, cheerful and interesting thread
is reduced to soft smut reading material and just
throw in some incest, rape and oral sex for good
measure.

Thank you Kwaw

The subject is Orion's sword / penis - the myths associated with it are frequently violent and pornographic, inclusive of incest, rape, mutilation as with many myths and legends. Sorry if myths and legends offend you, I will however continue to post such as may be pertinent to any subject at hand, so I suggest you ignore my posts.

Kwaw

sweet_intuition
06-11-2006, 03:13
I wonder if any of Orion's "conquests" suffered from severe cases of gag-reflex

Barbaras Ahajusts
06-11-2006, 03:22
I wonder if any of Orion's "conquests" suffered from severe cases of gag-reflex

ROTFLOL...omg!
Apparently so from what Kwaw shared! She [The daughter] did have a SEVERE CASE of gag-reflex! ...she vomits up worlds/creatures [or something like that, I am paraphrasing from memory].

You're killing me here, SI!!! LOL.

Kwaw, not only am I constantly learning things on the AT, I am kept highly entertained. To me, thats a wonderful way to learn! Thank you for sharing!

Barb

Fulgour
06-11-2006, 03:34
Now that Nebula shot was truly beautiful!There are many beautiful images: click on (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=Orion+Nebula&btnG=Search+Images). Enjoy!

Fulgour
06-11-2006, 03:37
The subject is Orion's sword / penis - the myths associated with it are frequently violent and pornographic, inclusive of incest, rape, mutilation as with many myths and legends. Sorry if myths and legends offend you, I will however continue to post such as may be pertinent to any subject at hand, so I suggest you ignore my posts.
Your expertise is always welcome. :) Can we see something tangible?
Maybe you've written a book, and would like to share. Any pictures?

Moonbow
06-11-2006, 03:53
Yeah, words fail me too Rainbow Aurora! :)

A little myth background is very interesting... and btw I think the thread was destined to turn to soft smut by it's topic....but who's counting? :D

sweet_intuition
06-11-2006, 03:56
...and btw I think the thread was destined to turn to soft smut by it's topic....but who's counting? :D

Is it just me, or is everybody thinking about "swallow"

gregory
06-11-2006, 04:06
So, this happy, cheerful and interesting thread
is reduced to soft smut reading material and just
throw in some incest, rape and oral sex for good
measure.

Thank you Kwaw
Myths are full of all that. And if you think those things are upsetting, try - Leda and the Swan, for instance..... :eek:

Yes, this thread started out as a bit of fun - but Kwaw is taking it seriously, and more power to him. His scholarship is beyond reproach. He is always well worth listening to.

Barbaras Ahajusts
06-11-2006, 04:15
There are many beautiful images: click on (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=Orion+Nebula&btnG=Search+Images). Enjoy!

Arrgh!
There's so many to chose from! How can I just chose one?
Simply beautiful, is our world/worlds!

Thank you Fulgour!

:heart:Barb

prudence
06-11-2006, 04:15
Myths are full of all that. And if you think those things are upsetting, try - Leda and the Swan, for instance..... :eek:


yeah, and isn't the bible pretty well sprinkled with this type of behavior? :confused:
I think this is a very interesting topic and I am grateful for all of the valuable information shared by those posting in it.....

and yes, I do believe swallow may be on quite a few minds at this point, sweet_intuition. :D

Fulgour
06-11-2006, 04:27
Yes, this thread started out as a bit of fun - but Kwaw is taking it seriously, and more power to him. His scholarship is beyond reproach. He is always well worth listening to.Sunshine & Lollipops! That's what I love! :heart:

sweet_intuition
06-11-2006, 04:29
yeah, and isn't the bible pretty well sprinkled with this type of behavior? :confused: ............
and yes, I do believe swallow may be on quite a few minds at this point, sweet_intuition. :D

Speaking of the bible... you know, there's a gay love story in it?

Samuel 18:3-4 (TNIV):

"And Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. Jonathan took off the robe he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his tunic, and even his sword, his bow and his belt."


And 2 Samuel 1:26 (TNIV):

"I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother;
you were very dear to me.
Your love for me was wonderful,
more wonderful than that of women.

Milfoil
06-11-2006, 04:34
Myths are full of all that. And if you think those things are upsetting, try - Leda and the Swan, for instance..... :eek:

Yes, this thread started out as a bit of fun - but Kwaw is taking it seriously, and more power to him. His scholarship is beyond reproach. He is always well worth listening to.

Yes, I also found Kwaw's information to be very interesting. Reminded me of the Egyptian creation myth.

gregory
06-11-2006, 04:41
Sunshine & Lollipops! That's what I love! :heart:
Hello, my little gobstopper..... ;)

I do think there has been a little overreaction, is all. What is it with this forum and sex ? :(

sweet_intuition
06-11-2006, 04:48
no-one seems comfortable discussing anything to do with it without getting their knickers in a twist. People who get upset don't have to read threads that upset them..... :(


Well said :)

Barbaras Ahajusts
06-11-2006, 04:52
ORION, ORION, with your Nebula so fair,
You bring us to our knees with words of dare!

You show proudly your gifts so fair and fine,
With all this sunshine, lollipops & gobstoppers,
I wish you were all mine!!

Hey, its a sweet tooth poem!

;)Barb

prudence
06-11-2006, 05:48
....the last ten or so posts have been utterly and desolately penisless



or is it penis-free?
edit~ meaning no one has said "penis" in like the last 10 posts! Not meaning that the members who have posted in the last 10 posts have no members. ;)

Barbara, that poem is lovely. :love: Took my breath away.

Sophie
06-11-2006, 06:22
I think poor Orion needs a break - killed by Artemis, who loved him, and apparently accused in the Vedas (rightly or wrongly) of raping his daughter, who vomited the world. Well, all I can say is - no wonder the world's in such a state, having started as incestuous vomit. Or should that be semen? :eek: (Eat your heart out Tarantino, you're never going to top the Vedas!)

Did anyone say Lot?


pssst! Prudence! Penis!

And yes, I do think it's one. A sword in that place? Wouldn't that condemn Orion strictly to the high notes? ;)

gregory
06-11-2006, 06:22
Not meaning that the members who have posted in the last 10 posts have no members. ;)

Well, I don't. But I think Fulgour does. })

kwaw
06-11-2006, 06:51
http://highway55.library.yale.edu/PATREQIMG/size4/D0407/1012110.jpg

Barbaras Ahajusts
06-11-2006, 07:35
Uhm, That Fool forgot to pull up his britches before those wild females caught him! :eek:
Uhm, unless he is doubled blessed, may I ask what that one on the floor has a mouthfull of? Don't answer that...:laugh:

I really like how that card is perserved. There is glass over Orion/The Fool isn't there?

Also, does circumsisions cross anyone's mind as you stare through a magnifying glass to view that fools penis?
(Or am I the only one with a magnafying glass staring at a penis & wondering why Lady Harris put the snake so close to the Devil/Goats thieghs to make me believe he was a double-donged goat? All this thinking about penis placement has given me heartburn. I may puke up a world or two before this thread is over!) :laugh:

:heart:Barb

Fulgour
06-11-2006, 07:47
Penis! And yes, I do think it's one. A sword in that place?
Wouldn't that condemn Orion strictly to the high notes? The Pen is mightier than the Sword!

kwaw
06-11-2006, 09:18
[Oops - meant to do a reply post and hit edit instead]:

Uhm, That Fool forgot to pull up his britches before those wild females caught him!

Perhaps they [of whichever gender they be] have pulled them down?

Also, does circumsisions cross anyone's mind as you stare through a magnifying glass to view that fools penis?

Definitely, as with the Noblet fool [no magnifying glass required]:

http://tarot-history.com/Jean-Noblet/pages/le-fov.html

And certainly such wasn't the practice among European Christians [at least orthodox ones], so there appears to be a reference to Jewish or Muslim practice.

Thereagain why is such mutilation so common in America? When and where did the practice of circumcision become common practice in America? Is it a recent phenomena connected perhaps to some early 20th century pseudo-scientific theory of hygiene? Or does it go back to an earlier period of migrants in search of religious freedom? [Counter-reformation polemics was always infering that the new christian sects had been Judaisised and were full of marranos / conversos]. Or am I just mistaken about how common circumcision is practiced in America?

When and where did the practice of circumcision become common practice in America? Is it a recent phenomena connected perhaps to some early 20th century pseudo-scientific theory of hygiene? Or does it go back to an earlier period of migrants in search of religious freedom? Or am I just mistaken about how common circumcision is practiced in America?.

Apparently it is a 20th century phenomena:

http://www.boystoo.com/history/statistics.htm

Kwaw

Rosanne
06-11-2006, 09:53
Circumcision here in New Zealand, came from Hygiene considerations after the World Wars. Then it seemed to follow the thought- to be the same as your Father. It did not follow the Jewish custom of it happening on the 8th day after birth either. ~Rosanne

kwaw
06-11-2006, 10:13
Circumcision here in New Zealand, came from Hygiene considerations after the World Wars. ~Rosanne

Yes, appears to be a 20th century phenomena in America too. Would you agree that the Noblet fool appears to be circumcised, and at the place and period of this image this would identify him as Jewish [or possibly Muslim]?

Kwaw

firemaiden
06-11-2006, 10:43
Whoah... whoah whoah whoah whoah folks. Whoah.

NEVER YOU FEAR, ASTROLOGY TROLL IS HERE!!!!

Okay, seriously, it doesn't take a lot of imagination to see a penis in three points of light arranged in a line. But why stop there?

When I was in first grade they taught me how to take a ruler, line it up between two points and draw a line. New math.... two points make a line.

If two points make a line, what do three points make?

HAHA gotcha there!

The human brain is organised to connect the dots. Hence an abstract splatter painting by Miro organised itself in my brain into portraits of George and Martha Washington, Pavarotti, five Geisha Girls, an angel, a dragon, and a whole lot of other things.

Our intrepid ancestors did the same with the heavenly bodies and invented constellations. Connect the dots.

What I don't get is how they organised a person named Orion in the points of light surrounding that penis. Yeah, yeah, I see that oblongular contraption....

Did I ever tell you my theory about how the entire field of astrology is organised by (fill in unpopular political party name here) to impound otherwise productive minds and keep them out of circulation, thereby preventing the sensitive creative types from being too subversive a force in society?

I hereby submit that those three dots are not a penis. They are the begining of a flower blooming. They are three pearls of wisdom dripping from the prophet's mouth. They are the droplets of water spinging from the winged horse's step, the first fountain... they are a virgin's sacrificial Bluttropfchen hitting the snow. They are a dipstick in a can of paint, controls to a vast spaceship, the beginning of a string of beads, a very large telephone, warthog's tail, sucking wand to the cosmic vaccuum cleaner...

I don't see why it couldn't also be the sawed-off leg of a pirate's chair, a rifle, or one projecting stem of a terrorist wysteria, which by morning will have shot clear across the garden-sky...

Why isn't it three juggled magician's balls? a particularly bulbous nose, a carrot, a banana, or a loaf of Semifreddi's Seeded Sourdough baguette, fresh one hour ago from the baker. (Warning... seeds = semen = cloud nebula = life = ocean = creation = milk = improperly farmed un-organic dairy product.)

Penis... my foot.

firemaiden goes away muttering... three crumpets on a plate, a chocolate eclair, a package of Maria biscuits, steam duct on a choochoo train...

Rosanne
06-11-2006, 10:51
Yes Kwaw- He appears to be circumcised and I would say he is the Arabic Al Jabbar and those three admiring lads are the stars Rigel, Saiph and Alnitak.~Rosanne

kwaw
06-11-2006, 11:11
Yes Kwaw- He appears to be circumcised and I would say he is the Arabic Al Jabbar and those three admiring lads are the stars Rigel, Saiph and Alnitak.~Rosanne

And the fourth lad in the 'Charles VI'?

Kwaw

For image see here, about a third way down the page: http://association.tarotstudies.org/newsletters/news38.html

Rosanne
06-11-2006, 11:43
Thanks for that link Kwaw- As the string of Pearls denote the belt- that strikes off Alnitak- so maybe they are further down Stars-
Aldebaran was the Watcher of the East,
Antares was the Watcher of the West,
Fomalhaut was the Watcher of the South and,
" Regulus was one of the four stars of the Persian monarchy when, as Watcher of the North, it marked the Summer Solstice." [Farrel, 2002].
But I think the one in blue bending down is Rigel and the one clasping the knee is Saiph- The one with the apron of stones - stars of Lepus?? The one toward the back - Just don't know- so I retreat to the Watchers as the most likely lol- I must look up their Arabic names. ~Rosanne

Grigori
06-11-2006, 11:52
Hi everyone,

This is developing into a very interesting discussion about an image found in the stars. As it progresses please keep the Aeclectic Tarot Forum Rules (http://www.tarotforum.net/faq.php?faq=ourrules_faq_item) in mind, so everyone can learn and have a fun time. In particular:

No flaming, baiting, insults, or harassment of other members on the forum or via private message. Lack of respect for other members will result in post removal and/or temporary or permanent suspension of all member privileges....

Avoid meta-discussion. Instead of talking about the thread or post itself while you're posting in it, stick to talking about the original topic. Any concerns about our policies, rules or guidelines should be sent privately to a moderator or to administration for handling.

Thanks all :)

Rosanne
06-11-2006, 17:55
Kwaw I have looked very carefully at the card you linked here-
http://association.tarotstudies.org...ers/news38.html
Orion seems to have four likely lads in four positions around and below him.
I think they are the stars on the ecliptic in the four directions around and below Orion. The are the 'Watchers' and are very good aid memoir depicted as watching his creative force in the yearly Calendar. So who do I think they are?
Between his legs I think is Aldebaran the eye of Taurus, the lad hold the Birds nest that is Pleiades that would be considered in front of Alderbaran.His Arabic name is Ad Dabaran which means Follower of Pleiades. He would be the Watcher of the East. Behind Orion's right leg is The Watcher of the West, Antares which is in Scorpius. It is a red Supergiant star, so the lad is dressed suitably in Dark red. I think his Arabic name is Al Jabhah which means something like 'big red forehead.'
I think the lad with the blue top in front of right leg is Regulus in Leo. It fluctuates in brightness, sometimes looking dark/ sometimes bright.I cannot find his Arabic name. He is bending over like the sickle part of Leo. That leaves the Lad on the right- so if he is Fomalhaut the mouth star of the Southern Fish Pisces Austrinus I can only think he is clasping the left leg of Orion to indicate he is around in front of Ras al Jathi a very red star whose name means the 'Kneeling one' in the Hercules group which is called a keystone of four stars in the Summer. Then again I might be completly wrong.... but that is a small might be as I have been astral travelling all afternoon. :D ~Rosanne

kwaw
06-11-2006, 18:45
Kwaw I have looked very carefully at the card you linked here-
http://association.tarotstudies.org...ers/news38.html
Orion seems to have four likely lads in four positions around and below him.
I think they are the stars on the ecliptic in the four directions around and below Orion. The are the 'Watchers' and are very good aid memoir depicted as watching his creative force in the yearly Calendar. So who do I think they are?
Between his legs I think is Aldebaran the eye of Taurus, the lad hold the Birds nest that is Pleiades that would be considered in front of Alderbaran.His Arabic name is Ad Dabaran which means Follower of Pleiades. He would be the Watcher of the East. Behind Orion's right leg is The Watcher of the West, Antares which is in Scorpius. It is a red Supergiant star, so the lad is dressed suitably in Dark red. I think his Arabic name is Al Jabhah which means something like 'big red forehead.'
I think the lad with the blue top in front of right leg is Regulus in Leo. It fluctuates in brightness, sometimes looking dark/ sometimes bright.I cannot find his Arabic name. He is bending over like the sickle part of Leo. That leaves the Lad on the right- so if he is Fomalhaut the mouth star of the Southern Fish Pisces Austrinus I can only think he is clasping the left leg of Orion to indicate he is around in front of Ras al Jathi a very red star whose name means the 'Kneeling one' in the Hercules group which is called a keystone of four stars in the Summer. Then again I might be completly wrong.... but that is a small might be as I have been astral travelling all afternoon. :D ~Rosanne

The birth of Abraham:

The fool may be considered the one seventh of the three and one sevenths required to complete the circle, for the serpent to grasp/swallow its tail, it is not a complete 'bit' but an intercalary part required to complete a cycle or synchronise two cycles. In another thread I have mentioned how we may possibly relate the Fool to the concept of the intercalary days / months required to maintain the year with the circle, or of one cycle [eg the lunar] with another [eg the seasons, solar cycle]. And how we may relate this to the 'H' inserted in the names of Abraham and Sarah following Abraham's covenant with G-d [synchronising or uniting the lesser with the greater, lower with upper, of which circumcision is the symbol or sign]. The four corner stars, it is said, were swallowed by a great star at the birth of Abraham:

ABRAHAM - THE STAR IN THE EAST
"Terah had been a high official at the court of Nimrod, and he was held in great consideration by the king and his suite. A son was born unto him whom he called Abram, because the king had raised him to an exalted place. In the night of Abraham's birth, the astrologers and the wise men of Nimrod came to the house of Terah, and ate and drank, and rejoiced with him that night. When they left the house, they lifted up their eyes toward heaven to look at the stars, and they saw, and, behold, one great star came from the east and ran athwart the heavens and swallowed up the four stars at the four corners. They all were astonished at the sight, but they understood this matter, and knew its import. They said to one another: "This only betokens that the child that hath been born unto Terah this night will grow up and be fruitful, and he will multiply and possess all the earth, he and his children forever, and he and his seed will slay great kings and inherit their lands."

From Ginsburg's The Legends of the Jews Volume I, Chap. 5.

Kwaw

Rosanne
06-11-2006, 20:15
That is quite fascinating- Abraham's Star is Fomalhaut. I know it portends rain, and drinks from Aquarius. Drinks like a fish? The time of Barley beer? I wonder how it ate the four corners of Hercules? The sky would have been a lot clearer then, and maybe the carousers could see the red dust around it. At any rate all I found out about Tarot just opens up another door. Thanks Kwaw.~Rosanne

kwaw
06-11-2006, 20:45
As I read the image, the giant Orion in Jewish/Christian legend is identified with Nimrod, at whose court Terah, Abrahams father, was a court astrologer. At Abraham's birth a great star in east was seen that swallowed the four stars at the corners of heaven [that is to say, it encompassed the whole of heaven].

Abraham too, like his Father, worshipped the stars, but had an epiphany in which he realized that it was not the stars that were the true gods, but the one that made them, and who was beyond and encompassed [swallowed] them all. He made a covenant with the one god, and the sign of that covenant was circumcision. The word for sign is ATh [aleph tau], the tau is a mark like an 'X' and we may see the Fool and four corner stars as forming a quincunx Tau, Orion itself is attributed to Aleph, so we have encapsulated in the image the word Ath, sign. The true centre or focus of the image is not the Fool, but his genitals, where the sign of the covenant, circumcision, is made [an association thus between Orion's penis and Orions sword, as blade, that makes the cut, the mark 'X'].

Kwaw

kwaw
06-11-2006, 21:20
The word for sign is ATh [aleph tau], the tau is a mark like an 'X' and we may see the Fool and four corner stars as forming a quincunx Tau, Orion itself is attributed to Aleph, so we have encapsulated in the image the word Ath, sign.

Kwaw

Or, another way, take a look at the Hebrew letter aleph, it is made of one long stroke of a vau, with two small jots or yuds, that is, a penis and two testes.

The central point of the 'X' is the genitals of the fool, that is Aleph; lines in four directions [to the four corner stars] forming tau 'X', aleph and tau, the first and the last, ATh, a sign; the sign of the covenant, symbol of Abrahams epiphany, of the one god that encompasses [swallows] the stars.

Kwaw

kwaw
07-11-2006, 07:02
That is quite fascinating- Abraham's Star is Fomalhaut. I know it portends rain, and drinks from Aquarius. Drinks like a fish?

Isn't there a fish in the star card of one deck [can't recall it at the moment].

Kwaw

kwaw
07-11-2006, 07:27
Whoah... whoah whoah whoah whoah folks. Whoah.

NEVER YOU FEAR, ASTROLOGY TROLL IS HERE!!!!

Okay, seriously, it doesn't take a lot of imagination to see a penis in three points of light arranged in a line. But why stop there?

I hereby submit that those three dots are not a penis. They are the begining of a flower blooming. They are three pearls of wisdom dripping from the prophet's mouth. They are the droplets of water spinging from the winged horse's step, the first fountain... they are a virgin's sacrificial Bluttropfchen hitting the snow. They are a dipstick in a can of paint, controls to a vast spaceship, the beginning of a string of beads, a very large telephone, warthog's tail, sucking wand to the cosmic vaccuum cleaner...

[/i]

They are all those things and more, to any of us as individuals, they are dots we may picture anyway we wish. But they were pictured in certain ways by ancient cultures, as a way perhaps to teach and to remember, for very practical purposes, as locational markers, of seasons or positon, calendrical or navigational, of time and space, useful in that respect in much as they achieved status of a cultural convention, but such would all be lost with nothing to go by but our individual dipsticks:) Sailing on the sea there is no point saying sail with can of paint and very large telephone, the warthogs tail or vacuum cleaner on your left, if you are the only one that knows what the **** you mean :) Individuality is fine, until it gets your family lost at sea and drowned. Convention, however boring, has certain advantages over eccentricity in particular situations.

Kwaw

firemaiden
07-11-2006, 07:33
Okay, that's beautifully said, Kwaw. I never thought of it that way. Cool!