View Full Version : Elemental Spread
I was just looking at my Tarot Calendar and it occurred to me that it would be fun to share the monthly spread with you guys! So here goes:
THE ELEMENTAL SPREAD: 5 card reading (all quotes from the Llewellyn 2002 Tarot Calendar)
1(Fire) 2(Earth) 3(Air) 4(water)
5(spirit)
NOTE: cards 1-4 are in a line, card 5 goes between cards 2 & 3. I could not figure out how to make this post space properly.
1. "Fire indicates what business areas are likely to concern us. This position acan also depict psychic, romantic or creative endeavors."
2. "Earth indicates our financial or material situation. This position denotes values or self-esteem."
3. "Air indicates how we relate to partners, friends, and acquaintances. This position may depict what we can expect from correspondence or legal proceedings."
4. "Water indicates our emotional state of being and shows what may evoke and emotional response."
5. "Spirit represents issues that tend to be karmic in nature. It shows us the issues that help us progress along our spiritual path."
I have been getting this calendar for 3 years now, and I have kept old calendars for the collection of spreads and other info they contain. If you guys would like me to keep sharing a spread a month just let me know :)
Yes, please! Do share some more. :)
And thank you... :)
mooncat2
04-09-2002, 22:01
Yes, indeed - would definitely like that.
I love new spreads!
Thanks.
Love
Sullanciri2002
05-09-2002, 03:11
:confused:
if you get a swords-card in the earth position, or a cups-card in the air-position ?
I'm serious here - I could get into this sort of spread, but that possibility makes me wonder. Or should you just lay out the cards, and the first sword you draw goes onto the air-position, the first wands onto the fire position ... and the first major arcana onto the 5 ??
Wild idea, but I've heard worst. Besides, I've also like those major arcana spreads where the final card is the synthesis of the others' "numerical value".
Jenny-Li
05-09-2002, 16:27
Originally posted by Sullanciri2002
:confused:
if you get a swords-card in the earth position, or a cups-card in the air-position ?
I'm serious here - I could get into this sort of spread, but that possibility makes me wonder. Or should you just lay out the cards, and the first sword you draw goes onto the air-position, the first wands onto the fire position ... and the first major arcana onto the 5 ??
Wild idea, but I've heard worst. Besides, I've also like those major arcana spreads where the final card is the synthesis of the others' "numerical value".
First, ponder this: Pages are earth, Knights are Fire, Queens are Water and Kings are air* - you are already working with this paradox without even thinking about it! :) (* according to the 78 degrees of wisdom)
To me it is always the combinations that are interesting, not least the elemental combinations... What do you get when you combine fire and air, what's the result of water and earth put together? The elements all have their characteristics, put them together and woosshh!! you are off, off and away! on a journey with no limit. That is what makes the magic of the Tarot, and of the world, because the magic of the Tarot is really just that it reflects the world, just as it is...!
You can learn more about this way of relating the cards to each other from the 78 degrees of wisdom, and I am sure there are other books as well. Most information you will probably (as usual) get from yourself, by working with the cards. Give it time and effort and it will grow upon you!
Light and love,
Jenny *personally not there yet, but I really like the elements way of relating to the Tarot* :)
PS: Jewel - oh yes, please keep'em coming! ;) I'd love that! Thanks for sharing this one!
Sullanciri2002
06-09-2002, 03:18
about what I am aware of or not. As a Thoth-deck user, I am all too aware of the way court cards relate to the different elements - and I have read 78DW. Neither gives that clear an answer in regard to this type of spread, so I just hoped that someone who used a specific elements-spread had a more clear explanation ... than the "it's really all in your own way of working with the cards", which seems to be the standard reply to every question these days.
Rant over - it's not "aimed" at anyone in particular.
(One of those hormonal days probably - yes, we men have those too - and don't let anyone tell you different, unless it's an endocrynologist).
Jenny-Li
06-09-2002, 05:17
Originally posted by Sullanciri2002
about what I am aware of or not. As a Thoth-deck user, I am all too aware of the way court cards relate to the different elements - and I have read 78DW.
Well, to me it is virtually the same thing, if a Knight of Cups can be a "Fire of Water" then what is the problem with reading an air card in an earth position? I meant it as nothing but a parallell that has helped me understand not only the courts but a lot about the Tarot as a whole, not, absolutely not, as an assumption in any direction. I apologize if that is what it seemed like, it was absolutely not my intention.
Your post makes me wonder: How would the Tarot work if there were such a thing as clear answers...? To me it actually seems like a standardized answer is what you are asking for. In my world it doesn't work that way.
Perhaps it's me being immature (heck - I'm not even 30 ;)) but I think Tarot is the kind of thing that works the way you MAKE IT work. It's not about "pick up a deck and do what you feel", not the way I see it. It's about developing a relation with the cards that builds on what YOU believe in. And to me that's the charm of working with the Tarot. If there WAS a manual saying do-like-this I wouldn't be interested the way I am now...
I don't take your post personally (nor did I mean to "make assumptions" with mine), but no matter how I twist and turn what you say, I can see nothing wrong in a variety of decks, approaches and symbolism... I think that's part of what makes this an enrichening and enlightning experience.
I am sorry if you misunderstood my post, I had no intention to be patronizing or anything, I was simply drawing a parallell that I found interesting and valuable. If it isn't to you, then simply disregard it.
Jenny
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Originally posted by Jenny-Li
First, ponder this: Pages are earth, Knights are Fire, Queens are Water and Kings are air* - you are already working with this paradox without even thinking about it! :) (* according to the 78 degrees of wisdom)
Hmmm ... I have always related to kings as fire and knights as air ...
Sullanciri I think that is a very valid and interesting question that you brought up. I have not worked with an elemental spread (just posted the one my wall this month *LOL*). I also see a lot of validity in what Jenny-Li sees in how to work this sort of spread.
My thoughts on this is that in life we see the blending of the elements in everything. No emotion is purely "water" for example. So the way I would see getting another element within a particular elemental postition (i.e. fire in a water position), is that I am handling or dealing with an emotional issue in a fiery way (passion, creativity perhaps), or if I draw a sword maybe I am over analyzing a relationship.
The card drawn would represent my approach to a particular event that is rooted or defined by one element, but my approach, reactions, feelings and thoughts towards it are coming from the perspective of a different element. Does this make sense?
Jenny-Li
06-09-2002, 10:46
Originally posted by Jewel
Hmmm ... I have always related to kings as fire and knights as air ...
Hm... I could be wrong about what Rachel Pollack says, I realize that now, but that's how I see it... But you know what? You work with Thoth-inspired Cosmic Tribe, don't you? Isn't the king more of the active one in that "system"? Perhaps that's why it's more natural for you to see them that way? The Waite-kings are very Airy to me... :)
Originally posted by Jewel
My thoughts on this is that in life we see the blending of the elements in everything. No emotion is purely "water" for example. So the way I would see getting another element within a particular elemental postition (i.e. fire in a water posistion), is that I am handling or dealing with an emotional issue in a fiery way (passion, creativity perhaps), or if I draw a sword maybe I am over analyzing a relationship.
The card drawn would represent my approach to a particular event that is rooted or defined by one element, but my approach, reactions, feelings and thoughts are towards it are coming from the perspective of a different element. Does this make sense?
This is what I meant but I couldn't put it as nicely as you did - thanks Jewel!
Jenny :)
Originally posted by Jenny-Li
You work with Thoth-inspired Cosmic Tribe, don't you? Isn't the king more of the active one in that "system"? Perhaps that's why it's more natural for you to see them that way? The Waite-kings are very Airy to me... :)
This is what I meant but I couldn't put it as nicely as you did - thanks Jewel!
Hi Jenny-Li, glad I was able to help verbalize your thoughts. That is what I thought you meant and I agree with you completly.
The CT is definetly Thoth based, and to be honest every card in that deck is active *LOL*. In the CT we have Princes and Knights like in Thoth, no Kings. The order of the courts are Prince, Princess, Knight and Queen. But I maintain my elemental correspondences alike for all decks I use, RWS or Thoth based.
I believe I learned my association of Kings with Fire, Knights with Air from Tarot for Yourself by Mary Greer, and although I read 78 DW a while back I do not remember how she related them. This will be good topic to address in our 78 DW study group when we work with court cards :).
The important thing is that your system works well for you and makes sense to you as mine does to me. That could have to do with the elemental perspective by which we approach tarot ;)
Jenny-Li
06-09-2002, 14:32
Originally posted by Jewel
The CT is definetly Thoth based, and to be honest every card in that deck is active *LOL*.
*lol* :D OK, I should have known that about the CT cards (and Thoth too, I can imagine!), they do seem rather lively... That deck is VERY high on my present wish list, so in a not too distant future I plan to be making my own opinion about the CT!
I just did a reading with the Robin Wood, and got Knight of Wands as the first card, and smiled a bit when I started the reading by saying "OK, this card is fire of fire..." :D In the Robin Wood, there can hardly be any mistakes, the art is very obvious on that point! :D
But once again, I do believe it's perfectly possible to have completely different points of view, and still get the right results from the reading!
Light and love,
Jenny :)
Originally posted by Jenny-Li
I just did a reading with the Robin Wood, and got Knight of Wands as the first card, and smiled a bit when I started the reading by saying "OK, this card is fire of fire..." :D In the Robin Wood, there can hardly be any mistakes, the art is very obvious on that point! :D
~Giggles~ the Robin Wood was my primary deck for 7+ years (until the CT arrived) ... I just had to share that with you and give you a good chuckle since we see these as different.
I will PM you about the CT so we do not go off topic ...
Originally posted by Jewel
I was just looking at my Tarot Calendar and it occurred to me that it would be fun to share the monthly spread with you guys! So here goes:
(snip)
1. "Fire indicates what business areas are likely to concern us. This position acan also depict psychic, romantic or creative endeavors."
2. "Earth indicates our financial or material situation. This position denotes values or self-esteem."
(snip)
Jewel (and others);
First off, I love the look of this spread - I have the feeling it will be a very good one for me. However... I do have one question about the Fire and Earth positions. Fire is said to relate to things having to do with "business areas", then Earth "indicates our financial or material situation." This has come up in other things I've seen (such as information on the minor arcana). I'm not sure I understand how "business areas" and ones "financial situation" are really all that different - aren't they very closely related and similar in nature? If not, how do they differ?
Only slightly confused :confused:
Trogon
Lady Anna
07-09-2002, 08:22
I agree with Strega...Please! share some more.
And thank you...
Love,
Analisa
Jenny-Li
07-09-2002, 14:20
Well, I guess the real insight will have to come from Jewel, who shared the spread from the start... But in my view Fire is about driveforces and ambition, so in that respect, I'd rather say that Fire relates to what you want to achieve with your work, while Earth relates to the material values your achievements can bring you...
Does that make sense?
Light and love,
Jenny :)
Originally posted by Jenny-Li
Fire relates to what you want to achieve with your work, while Earth relates to the material values your achievements can bring you.
As I have never done this spread, just copied it, I am by no means an expert, but I totally agree with what Jenny-Li stated here. Great question by the way! The work/financial elemental correspondences are a bit confusing.
To add to what Jenny-Li stated, often times your emotions and your creativity (fire) are vested in your work, and they can help or hinder your progress. These can lead to promotions and recognitions which would definetly have an impact on your financial well being.
Your financial or material situation can be less dependent or even independent of your job (depending on what you do and how much material wealth you possess). It can be money you receive as gifts, inheritance, trust fund, winning the lottery, etc. Thus our financial and material situation can go beyond the money we make in our jobs and can also refer to other valuable assets we have.
Does this answer your question? If not please keep asking!
Originally posted by Jewel
Your financial or material situation can be less dependent or even independent of your job (depending on what you do and how much material wealth you possess). It can be money you receive as gifts, inheritance, trust fund, winning the lottery, etc. Thus our financial and material situation can go beyond the money we make in our jobs and can also refer to other valuable assets we have.
Does this answer your question? If not please keep asking!
Jewel;
Yesss... you did answer the question. So, the way I now understand it, the difference is that business/job related matters might be things like how well you do your job, what you might need to be successful in your business, what things might be affecting you in your job or business, etc. This would be separate from how your financial situation and windfalls, gifts, how you spend money, etc...
Does that sound like I've got a grasp on it now? ;)
Thank you for clearing this up for me.
Trogon
Trogon that is how I interpret it. Glad I could be of help to you.
VmprGokuboi69
26-09-2002, 00:15
Originally posted by Jenny-Li
First, ponder this: Pages are earth, Knights are Fire, Queens are Water and Kings are air* - you are already working with this paradox without even thinking about it! :)
In the faerie wicca deck, they actually have cards classified as, air of fire, and water of earth... etc.... its for those people like me, who's astrological sign is fire but I act like fire and water.... so therefore.... this gets confusing... im water of fire.... fire of water has different meanings, and i act more like a water sign than a fire sign
Originally posted by Jewel
My thoughts on this is that in life we see the blending of the elements in everything. No emotion is purely "water" for example. So the way I would see getting another element within a particular elemental postition (i.e. fire in a water position), is that I am handling or dealing with an emotional issue in a fiery way (passion, creativity perhaps), or if I draw a sword maybe I am over analyzing a relationship.
That makes sense to me, Jewel, and makes it sound like a useful quick spread. Going to try it right now! :) One of my decks, the Minchiate Etruria has a major arcana card for each of the elements. The meanings given in the LWB include an emotion for each element: nostalgia and fond memories for earth, lightheartedness and exultancy for air, coolness and calm for water, and passion and exuberance for fire. This got me thinking about how emotions=water is really an oversimplification.
Originally posted by Jewel
My thoughts on this is that in life we see the blending of the elements in everything. No emotion is purely "water" for example. So the way I would see getting another element within a particular elemental postition (i.e. fire in a water position), is that I am handling or dealing with an emotional issue in a fiery way (passion, creativity perhaps), or if I draw a sword maybe I am over analyzing a relationship.
That makes sense to me, Jewel, and makes it sound like a useful quick spread. Going to try it right now! :) One of my decks, the Minchiate Etruria has a major arcana card for each of the elements. The meanings given in the LWB include an emotion for each element: nostalgia and fond memories for earth, lightheartedness and exultancy for air, coolness and calm for water, and passion and exuberance for fire. This got me thinking about how emotions=water is really an oversimplification.
Originally posted by Myrrha
That makes sense to me, Jewel, and makes it sound like a useful quick spread. Going to try it right now! :) One of my decks, the Minchiate Etruria has a major arcana card for each of the elements. This got me thinking about how emotions=water is really an oversimplification.
Myrrha, I was wondering how your spread went? I still have not tried this one. I personally find it hard to separate all elemental influences into neat little piles (oversimplification as you stated). I do believe the essense of each element is present but that in real life we can and usually do have more than one element at work at a time.
Originally posted by Jewel
Myrrha, I was wondering how your spread went? I still have not tried this one. I personally find it hard to separate all elemental influences into neat little piles (oversimplification as you stated). I do believe the essense of each element is present but that in real life we can and usually do have more than one element at work at a time.
Yes, in real life the elements are mixed and mingled. Things have to do with more than one element, as the question about work being "fire" and financial security being "earth" showed. I did try this spread. It gave an overall snapshot view of what is going on right now in my life but did not offer much in the way of advice so it seemed kind of limited. On the other hand a couple of the cards seemed to validate things that I thought were going on, to have them show up in the spread was as if the cards were saying "yes, this is really happening, pay attention to it"
It did not seem confusing or constricting to have the elements be positions in the spread, I just thought of them as areas of life. For example I had the ace of cups in the position for the material aspect of my life, "earth", health, financial, job (this makes more sense for me than putting job in "fire") which could mean that my change of position (at work) will come through and it will be more emotionally satisfying, may even provide a new begining in my creative life. Strangely, the three areas in my life that are most mingled and interconnected right now all were given cup cards and the meanings seemed to relate to each other.
It might be interesting to use this spread in relation to a specific question. For example if it were used in a question about a new job the positions could be interpreted as different aspects of that specific situation. Or to use it as the first spread in a reading, to get that overview and then go to a more detailed spread about something specific.
Thanks again for posting these monthly spreads, it is great to try something new.
Myrrha
Originally posted by Myrrha
For example I had the ace of cups in the position for the material aspect of my life, "earth", health, financial, job (this makes more sense for me than putting job in "fire") which could mean that my change of position (at work) will come through and it will be more emotionally satisfying, may even provide a new begining in my creative life.
Myrrah I agree with your interpretation. I am wondering if this spread might not work best with no question .... sort of a general overview and then do a separate specific spread for additional info as you suggested.