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firecatpickles
31-12-2006, 05:36
I know there is some correlation between birth times and personality, but what about death times? Within the past week, James Brown, Gerald Ford, and Sadaam Hussein all snuffed it. What were their astrological similarities, if any, or what do the stars have to say about it?

dadsnook2000
03-01-2007, 02:37
I hate to see serious questions left unanswered. So, I'll address this very uncomfortable question.

First, just as birth is a unique event (and every birth chart different), so is death a unique event -- and every death chart will be different.

Second, there are some patterns that we find in the various charts of those who have died that are common to other deaths. That is not to say that they are that common or that, if found, they will mean that the chart-owner will die.

Third, the nature of the person's chart, the life that they lead, and current transits may in total suggest what aspect patterns are difficult ones for them. Since every symbol has many possible meanings, you can't just assign a "book" meaning to a pattern that says "death".

Fourth, I was asked once to advise a person as to whether they would die. It was for a very special person in the astrological world who did not trust any other astrologer with this significant question. In her case, I did offer the advice asked for. She had the perspective to deal with this situation (she was not sick as such, just advanced in her years) and had the time to prepare others around her for this event. The date/time given was several months ahead and she did pass on within a few minutes of the date/time given to her. I was privileged to be asked to finish up her case load for her. Other than that, I don't agree to do this kind of astrological work, directly or indirectly for clients. I don't do it for myself, nor do I worry about it. I live my life and don't follow charts other than to study some aspect of astrology that I'm working on.

I hope this helps. Dave

isthmus nekoi
03-01-2007, 09:12
Death is something of a taboo topic amongst modern Western astrologers, which is not surprizing as it is a taboo topic in modern Western society in general. The only astrologer I have seen analyze death charts is Nina Gryphon, which she does on her horary astro blog "Gryphon Astrology." Just google.

Voron
03-01-2007, 10:14
Whenever someone close to me dies, I can't help but cast a death chart. For pure curiosity's sake. I've never drawn any conclusions as such, but I would note aspects like a Neptune sextile Neptune aspect combined with a Pluto station trine a Sun-Saturn conjunction. I never draw much in the way of conclusions. Except, perhaps, some enlightenment as to the meaning that their death has for me, when I compare that transit to my chart or someone close to the deceased.

For example: Saturn in Leo in the 5th transitting opposite Moon in Aquarius in the 11th and square Venus in Scorpio, combined with a transitting Sun-Pluto conjunction squaring natal Pluto, and 4 planets in the 8th, among other factors, were among the influences in my fiancee's chart when her most beloved cat of 15 years died. The death chart could be argued to say as much or more to/about those who remain than who who have left htis plane.

leephd
03-01-2007, 22:14
Death is something of a taboo topic amongst modern Western astrologers, which is not surprizing as it is a taboo topic in modern Western society in general. The only astrologer I have seen analyze death charts is Nina Gryphon, which she does on her horary astro blog "Gryphon Astrology." Just google.

And following that line: you will find that many Vedic and classical astrologer deal with this issue. Astrological organizations such as ISAR have put the issue of the prediction of death into their codes of ethics, but the tradition is clear: until the 20th c., the prediction of death was common.

I addressed the prediction of death in my book, The Martial Art of Horary Astrology.

I would actually be surprised if most professional astrologers haven't been asked to do it. In the case of horary, it's most frequently asked about parents. It's also interesting - I get the question far more frequently from regular horary clients than people who haven't worked with me in the past. I'd say on average, I get the question once or twice a year. The last time I got it was last week, in the form of the question: "Will my mother die today?" While that question was a little extreme in its specificity, it is typical of a question by a relative, because it typically speaks to the issue: do I need to get there NOW? It's rarely asked when the person isn't already in a terminal state.

As for the prediction of death from the natal chart, the traditional Western methods all involve an orb, so to speak. Because classical astrology is not dependent on aspecting transits as modern Western is, the methods used, which include the prediction of the hyleg combined with primary directions - were never interpreted as being as exact in effect as our modern computer programs convey.

When it's near the time of death, I have also used diurnals successfully.

dandelion
04-01-2007, 23:10
This might sound a touch silly, but I just couldn’t resist sharing this thought since it jumped to mind to readily upon reading kilts_knave's questions. I’m sure this falls under the umbrella of superstitions or old wives’ tales, but anyways… my mother has always said that “Deaths always come in threes.” I’m sure she first said this to me years ago when a series of celebrity actors/actresses passed away.

It’s not really something I’ve ever put a huge amount of stock in, but because I always “look for the threes” in my life in other aspects (such as meeting three people of the same name within a certain time window, or hearing the same phrase three times in a day, etc.), I’ve found that births, deaths, and many other events from the sacred to the mundane do seem to like to travel in threes.

I know your original question was about the significance of death times and personality... in my experience, it’s less a matter of common personality, and more an intersection of unique personalities around a specific occurrence, theme, event, or process, etc.

Just my two cents. :)

dadsnook2000
05-01-2007, 01:36
dandelion, since we are off on a tangent here permit me to make an observation. Seeing something of a similar nature three times would constitute a "coincidence." As they say, "There are no coincidences." This could be seen as the Universe saying, "PAY ATTENTION."

I had a client once, actually a member of Spain's former royal family, who talked of a series of coincidences. I pointed out that these are often linked to conjunctions occurring in the astrology chart by transits to natal planets. In fact, it was common to see conjunctions linked to coincidences. He discounted this -- so I ran some charts and showed him the timing of conjunctions with the dates of these coincidences. Then, to rub it in, using the planetary pair meanings, I told him what had happened on those dates. I had a convert and a new client. Dave

YDM42
06-01-2007, 14:28
I don't know if this is relevant but on one of my chart it makes mention:
Traditional astrology indicates that near your middle age a crisis will rear its head in your life. If this period is successfully spanned you can expect a prolonged life with a gradual heightening vitality

I kind of thought it was a cleaver way of sneaking in something relevant to death time. When I first read it I tried to figure out what the astrologer would consider middle age..now I just let it go.
I also have raised the question concerning personality types and death and death occuring in threes- and again its something that ran out of steam in discussions, because people are dying everyday and it's easy to string threee together. I did note there was a pattern with three in those who had involvement in certain political movments of a time- meaning the deaths occured at specific ages- if the death was natural. This is just one of those things I will often wonder about- but not give a whole lot of thought to.

leephd
08-01-2007, 05:22
This is a completely bogus statement, if traditional astrology is taken to mean the typical reading from before 1900. Wishful thinking, but there is no known correlation between a mid-life crisis and "getting it right" and a long life span. I guess we all wish...

But it kind of reminds me of a quote from Babylon 5 on the topic, "Imagine if life really WERE fair!"

Voron
09-01-2007, 05:02
Certain transits are universal do to simple orbital mathematics.

For example, whether one consider Uranus to be traditional or not, one thing's for certain, the Uranus opposition at about age 42 is definitely a universal "mid-life crisis" aspect everyone has to deal with. It's about individuality and is characterized by impulsiveness. Quite different than the issues surrounding mortality at the second Saturn return at 58.

With regard to the idea of heightened vitality after a crisis, while most assuredly not traditional, it sounds like a reference to (or at least makes me think of) the waxing Pluto square, which happens at varying ages due to its eccentric orbit.

kerri28
11-02-2007, 23:40
Im just totally blown away by learning that there is such a thing as a Death Chart???!!!! Can you seriously pinpoint the date and time of your death?

dadsnook2000
12-02-2007, 01:33
In your phrase, ". . .the death chart" there is no THE. Astrology is the study of patterns and of cycles. I would offer these observations:

** Your natal chart has important links to cyclic phenomena that occurred before your birth and which will play a role in your life.

** Your natal chart is a static frozen picture of cycles-in-progress. As such it represents both a pattern that is important to you and linked to you -- as well as it implies movement within "time" to the seasoned astrologer.

** There are a multitude of methods that permit the astrologer to look forwards and backwards in time, all relative to your birthchart, which can illustrate growth, development, change, and events. Some are more specific and useful than others for certain tasks.

** There is no singular Death chart. There is no singular Death pattern or signature that always shows up in a chart for one's death. Perhaps this is because there is no singular form of preparing for, or experiencing, death.

In a forthcoming book I have examples of charts that portrayed the death of individuals. While there are several/many patterns that correlate with death, these same patterns can be found in a great many more non-death charts. The type of chart, the context of the person's environment, all seem to be involved. Like a lot of "astrology" it is often true that a collaboration of death indicators seem to come together. In almost all cases there seems to be no single precipitating element. Dave.

rainwolf
12-02-2007, 06:11
Have you heard that famous people die in three's? I heard that from my mom a long time ago. :|

mollymawk
12-02-2007, 06:38
No, I've just heard the 'bad things come in threes' version.

Dave is right--in Western astrology you're unlikely to find a single indicator of death--there are generally multiples, and in some cases it can be mitigated--like being far away from ground zero (wherever that happens to be on earth for you) at the time of certain transits.

Note: This will NOT make you immortal! But it might help you avoid some serious nasties.

Also, Charles EO Carter wrote that we're not going to suss all of it, and I agree with him, even if we've come some ways since then. Think of a plane crash that kills 400 people. It'd be daunting (and fruitless) I think, to try to find 'death aspects' in all those charts. Add in natural disasters, or things like Dresden or Nagasaki...well, you get the idea.