PDA

View Full Version : Planet Series: Pluto . . . how do we express it in our charts.


dadsnook2000
23-02-2007, 07:44
Pluto -- so much has been heaped upon this planetoid, the next outpost past Neptune. Lets first look at some of the descriptive words that have been associated with Pluto:
-- Invisible force, "force majeure".
-- The will to exercise power, irresistible, control.
-- Ruthlessness, coercion, incitement of others to drastic action, agitation.
-- Regeneration, change that cannot be undone
-- Compulsion, obsession.

Pluto can express itself in so many ways that I hesitate to even list the basic ways it may act thru one's houses. But, I've never been shy, so lets consider these possibilities:
-- 1st House: One tends to be highly focused, to have a uneasy attraction about themselves, to have an air of intensity and insistance, the attempt to take control of whatever interests them.

-- 2nd House: Acquisitions, wanting a share of what others have, management of resources.

-- 3rd House: Deep thinking, influencing others by spoken or written words. Intensity in speaking and socializing.

--4th House: Solitary approaches, research, restructuring ones environment.

-- 5th House: Strong emotions, intense reactions, achieving unusual results thru creative or new fields of endeavor.

-- 6th House: Inquisitiveness, not being satisfied by small adjustments or steps in projects or work.

-- 7th House: Social assertiveness, focusing upon singular partners or issues in a relationship.

-- 8th House: Intrusion and management of other's resources or goals. Taking something that others overlooked.

--9th House: Unrealistic beliefs, goals or striving to learn more, do more in the mental spheres. Seeking to extend ones influence over others.

--10th House: Seeking recognition, power. Dictating how things are done. The liking of dangerous challenges.

--11th House: Plans and the desire to change society and associations, or their goals or means of achieving goals.

--12th House: Seclusion in terms of not being obvious, different from the fourth house placement in that Pluto here seeks to affect things without any basis of respect for other's views.

Now that some stakes have been driven into the ground, lets see who has what to share. Dave.

squeakmo9
23-02-2007, 09:38
-- Invisible force, "force majeure".
-- The will to exercise power, irresistible, control.
-- Ruthlessness, coercion, incitement of others to drastic action, agitation.
-- Regeneration, change that cannot be undone
-- Compulsion, obsession.

Pluto can express itself in so many ways that I hesitate to even list the basic ways it may act thru one's houses. But, I've never been shy, so lets consider these possibilities:
-- 1st House: One tends to be highly focused, to have a uneasy attraction about themselves, to have an air of intensity and insistance, the attempt to take control of whatever interests them.

-- 2nd House: Acquisitions, wanting a share of what others have, management of resources.



I have been told in astro reports that I have Pluto sitting in both the 1st and 2nd.
When I put my mind into things, I do it with my heart and soul. I noticed, especially when young, that I thrived on competition, never wanting to be perceived as a "loser". People have told me I have an intense gaze, which make them flinch at times so I try to be conscious of it. I try to blink more, lol. I do share what others have, I find I can also learn that way, have really good organization skills. Am given to rage...one minute placid, the next, like a volcano...I'm currently working on this. In my nature, I have also noted that I have a manipultive streak, although have been consciously aware of it for a couple of years, and do avoid this behavior. Oh, the "obsessive" thing...guilty as charged, and again, working on it.

Madwenaya
23-02-2007, 13:39
-- 8th House: Intrusion and management of other's resources or goals. Taking something that others overlooked.

I'm almost afraid to open my mouth...

I have spent a lot of time and effort trying to overcome this perception of me but my effort appears to work against the goal. I do not conciously do anything that remotely resembles using other people or their resources, but it is truly the one thing that people dislike most about me. I do seem to get the losing end of the stick when all is said and done. And that is the main reason I don't want anyone living with me or being too close to me. My child is ok (for now) because she has no resources. My house is mine - no exceptions and no excuses!

I have a tendency to think that Pluto is a bunch of smoke and mirrors. Things that may appear real are actually a reflection of something else. I don't actually think the real issue for me is 8th house concerns. The symptoms appear there but I am trying to get a better handle on my 2nd house stuff to try to resolve the problem.

dadsnook2000
23-02-2007, 14:13
The hidden side of Pluto -- it hides even from ourselves. Almost Neptunian in some ways. Secrets. Pluto can be fascinating to explore. For me, Pluto is almost a non-entity. But I've seen enough of Pluto in the chart's of others to know that this symbol can be highly disruptive in one's life. Thanks for sharing. Dave

MCsea
23-02-2007, 17:32
Can I ask a question about pluto square pluto aspects here or should I start a new thread?

MARINA

MCsea
23-02-2007, 19:42
I think I will ask here :)

Well I have just moved through my pluto square pluto - or have I...

I look on www.astro.com and it says it was finished in late November 2006 - but my life feels like it is still aspecting so I look at Solar fire and it says
Pluto - Orb 346' Separating Aspect is Square

I suppose what I am asking is the method of calculation different, and if you thought you had a Pluto Square Pluto where would you look (online free) to see when it will stop aspecting....
(of course that is if you feel this aspect is relevant)

I have a 4th house Pluto (Pluto is conj Sun conj S-Node AND square natal mars)

I see written here - 4th House: Solitary approaches, research, restructuring ones environment

Well I am a research scientist and the term restructuring ones environment is quite accurate - rehabilitate ones environment fits exactly ;)

My Pluto Sabian Symbol is a flag at half mast and my pluto square has seen the passing of my Uncle, a small child (like a son but not related) and my beloved Newfoundland dog, as well as other human to spirit transitions that lead me to many other funerals over the last 18 or so months.

I suppose the term -recycle- has dominated also...

Anyway..........

Thank You for reading and any suggestions on how to work out once and for all when I will complete this transit would be greatly appreciated.

MARINA

dadsnook2000
24-02-2007, 00:07
Your question shows the influence of "Natal-Chart-itis". The natal chart gives us a static view of the solar system relative to our location on Earth. We have to keep in mind that everything is comprised of constantly changing cycles.

Pluto/t may be square Pluto/n several times over the course of a couple of years but in terms of a cycle, we are looking at "phases" -- ebbing and flowing of influences which can also be marked by exact aspects but which persist for extended periods. Pluto was in late Virgo in the late 60's and early 70's. This phase of Pluto can be better understood by looking at the larger time frames.

Look at the house natal Pluto was in. Now, look at the house it presently is transiting. How do the natal meanings now get modified or influenced by the present chart position of Pluto? Which heavy planets was Pluto broadly aspecting then -- which now? How have these old and new companions affected the way in which Pluto can express itself?

Look at this, think about it, and then we can explore the specifics if you wish. Dave

huredriel
24-02-2007, 00:16
9th House: Unrealistic beliefs, goals or striving to learn more, do more in the mental spheres. Seeking to extend ones influence over others.

--11th House: Plans and the desire to change society and associations, or their goals or means of achieving goals.

Interesting, I have a natal 11th house Pluto, progressed into 9th, both in Virgo :)

I had a wish when younger that my circumstances were different but can't see how beyond that how this would apply. I am currently striving to learn more, especially within the mental/spiritual spheres but this is inward, definitely not to project out over others or influence :confused:

I think that for both, there is also a sextile to Neptune, so harmonious? Making both of them more *dreamy and living in a world of veiled perception?*

isthmus nekoi
24-02-2007, 05:19
Pluto in 8th. I started investing in my preteens; let smarter people manage my money lol! Also, I'm pursuing a career in the library/information field and work for a related nonprofit. Information is one of our most important shared resources. Issues of improving accessibility and "information literacy" (esp in developing nations) is something I am currently involved in.

MCsea
24-02-2007, 08:54
Pluto/t may be square Pluto/n several times over the course of a couple of years but in terms of a cycle, we are looking at "phases" -- ebbing and flowing of influences which can also be marked by exact aspects but which persist for extended periods. Pluto was in late Virgo in the late 60's and early 70's. This phase of Pluto can be better understood by looking at the larger time frames.

Look at the house natal Pluto was in. Now, look at the house it presently is transiting. How do the natal meanings now get modified or influenced by the present chart position of Pluto? Which heavy planets was Pluto broadly aspecting then -- which now? How have these old and new companions affected the way in which Pluto can express itself?


Ahh yes - thank you Dave, I think I had a panic last night, I do feel better about the whole situation, and have consulted some astrologers on this, and indeed it is a LONG TERM issue...

blessings

MARINA

rainwolf
24-02-2007, 09:42
5th House: Strong emotions, intense reactions, achieving unusual results thru creative or new fields of endeavor.

As usual, Dave describes our planets to a T. On a tangent about unusual results and creativity, I recently brought up the idea with a friend about post-graduate research. I said "maybe I should major in exercise biology, and do my dissertation in benefits of back flexibility, with emphasis on lack thereof but mainly contortion." I was being honest however.

mollymawk
24-02-2007, 12:45
-------------------------

Sophie
24-02-2007, 18:30
I have Pluto in the 5th House, and it opposes my conjunct Sun and Mercury in the 11th House, and also my Chiron in the 11th. It also squares my Moon in the 7th House, which conjuncts my Descendant. It is conjunct with Neptune - I think that's generational - and sextile Uranus in the 6th House. It's a pretty active Pluto, I have found with experience - both constructive and destructive at times. It lends intensity to my writing and relationships. In fact, with one exception (my university boyfriend), I never seem to have "normal" love relationships :(. I've also found that I find myself in intense situations - like wars - but can deal with them. Since I became socialised, I've also found that I have built circles of friends or colleagues that are strong and sometimes intense - and then break up or dissolve after a few years. It's happened quite often in the past 40 years. I keep some friends from each of those circles, but the groups don't remain - for all sorts of reasons.

I also want to be living someone else's chart for a while!

mollymawk
24-02-2007, 19:26
------------------------

dadsnook2000
24-02-2007, 22:54
As always, the sharing among us ATers is so open that each reply should have a reply. And from some of the numbers of posts I see besides our screen name and avatar, I think we do talk and share a lot.

FIRST: There is an interesting book, "The Astrology of Midlife and Aging" by Erin Sullivan, published by Jeremy P. Tarcher/Penguin Group (www.penguin.com). The author address all of the outer planet cycles and how they relate to the processes we encounter as we move thru life. She picks up the cycles earlier in our 30's as a way of providing context for our 40's thru 80's.

She notes Pluto's eccentric orbit and how that changes the succession of cycles we experience -- for me, the Pluto-square-Pluto phase came later in life, for some here it has come earlier in life and may have occured within a different sequence of cycles than what I experienced. This is probably why social behavior has change -- the newer generations are approaching aging differently because they experience their planetary cycles in a different sequence.

The author also notes the Cancer-Pluto's (1912-1937 gives the square cycle at ages 59-60), the Leo-Pluto's (1937-1956 gives the square cycle at ages 42-44), the Virgo-Pluto's (1956-1973 gives the square cycle at ages 39-40), the Libra-Pluto's (1971-1983 gives the square cycle at ages 40-41)etc.

When you read the book you can piece together from the tables the complex interaction of cycles and when they happen for you. We might want to consider a different PLANET SERIES ON AGING thread to explore this in the future. Does everyone realize that when we ever get done with the Planet Series threads that we will have, collectively, written a great astrology book?

SECOND: What we have to realize with the outer planet cycles is that what we experience is not strictly personal, it also include the experiences of others including the passing and arrival of family members and their children. I have a 94 year old mother-in-law who will probably be with us for another few years. I lost my dad when I was 18, and then others over the span of years between then and now. These losses and arrivals have a profound impact on us, especially when we become the oldest generation in our family circle. There are so many things that can complicate that experience. For us it was taking on the responsibility of raising three babies, grand-children, adopting them and experiencing a second family. Now a grand daughter will have a baby of her own in April. That's a shock. Blend this in with illness, retirement and new interests, changes in friendships (we can't do what our retired friends do as we have a young family), and its easy to see how complicated life can become. I think we need that Planets Series on Aging now that I think of it.

THIRD: Groups come into existence to feed a collective need. When I discovered Astrology in 1971 I was looking for others that I could share with and learn from. I had a local bookstore in Cambridge near Harvard U. that was helpful but that wasn't enough. Within months I discovered others, we formed a group of over 20, and we met weekly for seven years before we broke up. Did we ever learn astrology. We were big enough as a group to be able to invite well-known authors to meet and teach with us. It didn't take long to outgrow that. Several of us have gone on to do other things in astrology.

But, the point is that groups with shared interests develop to share growth, experiences and to help each other. Then they disband. And, yes, if we are lucky we can keep one or two friends from these experiences. But then it is time for each of us to continue our journey on our own paths.

The AT group is another example.

FOURTH: When we have complex charts in terms of aspects all over the place and multiple transits going on we need to start isolating certain patterns and just study them for a bit. Then we go on to another pattern. We also need to keep in mind that each pattern has a limited time span in terms of its orb of aspect -- but when seen as a phase, this phase pattern lingers until we find a way of acknowledging it and/or integrating it into our lives. So, Pluto square Pluto will go on long after the actual aspect separates by several degrees. This is why I suggested that HOUSE POSITIONS (then and now) should be looked at as this will tend to lead you into thinking more in the long term rather than focus on a couple of short weeks aspect-wise.

Dave

star-lover
25-02-2007, 07:38
pluto rules my life for good or for worse

its about a degree away from my ascendant

i feel its presence all the time, all the time

no escape

intensity is a good word

its at the last place of my twelth house
thats toture lool

makes you have to find out who your god is

i also have saturn in fifth so i am not a chill out person
lol
i always feel i have to be doing something for the world
even if i havent sorted my own life out yet lol

MCsea
25-02-2007, 19:04
FIRST: There is an interesting book, "The Astrology of Midlife and Aging" by Erin Sullivan, published by Jeremy P. Tarcher/Penguin Group (www.penguin.com).


Thank you - I think this is one more book I will purchase in my next outing, I have Hades moon by Judy Hall on the way, (I have a scorpio moon) and my mum said it will help understand pluto in my chart.


When you read the book you can piece together from the tables the complex interaction of cycles and when they happen for you. We might want to consider a different PLANET SERIES ON AGING thread to explore this in the future. Does everyone realize that when we ever get done with the Planet Series threads that we will have, collectively, written a great astrology book?


I have read all the Planet Series threads and I agree it is an amazing source if information and example - mainly due to the wonderful people here who share and your guidence Dave - thank you..


SECOND: What we have to realize with the outer planet cycles is that what we experience is not strictly personal......

THIRD: Groups come into existence to feed a collective need.......

But, the point is that groups with shared interests develop to share growth, experiences and to help each other.


Again I would like to thank everyone here - you have all HELPED me :)


FOURTH: When we have complex charts in terms of aspects all over the place and multiple transits going on we need to start isolating certain patterns and just study them for a bit. Then we go on to another pattern. We also need to keep in mind that each pattern has a limited time span in terms of its orb of aspect -- but when seen as a phase, this phase pattern lingers until we find a way of acknowledging it and/or integrating it into our lives.

absolutely.. that is why I started looking - looking - looking :)


So, Pluto square Pluto will go on long after the actual aspect separates by several degrees. This is why I suggested that HOUSE POSITIONS (then and now) should be looked at as this will tend to lead you into thinking more in the long term rather than focus on a couple of short weeks aspect-wise.



GOOD GRIEF!! It has gone on for soo long.. and I see alot of my friends in the same boat (similar ages and interests) with very similar life senarios being played out.... and yes I should be grateful I am aware of Astrology and of the patterns that play out, of course it helps to have this information at hand, unlike others who are just riding the wave...

I will have a re-think about the house positions and how best to make the most of it 'all'

thank you again

MARINA