Classification of Tarot

tarotreader2007

I've found out through the years that there are Tarots and Oracles when it comes to cards for divining. However, I can't help but feel as if a good portion of so-called tarot cards are really just oracles. I, like many tarot lovers, often browse different sites for tarot decks, mainly the major publishers, AT's log, or tarotgarden. When browsing, I find that many decks (mostly ls decks) seem to just be 78 cool pictures that a company put names to for a deck. I think it's time to distinguish tarot.

Can we really call a deck of cards a tarot deck if it has 78 cards split into the major and minor arcana? (I'm excluding decks with just majors or minors from this). So, to get this straight, organizing the cards and the titles are all it takes to create a tarot deck????

This starts to get fuzzier due to the types of decks people like, but certain decks just don't really say the right thing on a card ("but what is the right thing?"). Well, I think since we give it the name "tarot", we should consider that the definitions the card portrays should have a definite influence as to what is on the card. For instance, seeing a bunch a people getting tossed on an old boat in the middle of the sea doesn't display the 7 of cups in tarot. ("some people might say so"). Aye.

Tarot should be not be called tarot simply because it has the 78 card requirement with similar titles. That's just part of the basics. Meanings are what the tarot is all about. If you have a deck that's 78 cards and few of the pictures actually show what the card is supposed to say, while the rest are just "ooh, isn't that a pretty picture" pictures, why call it a tarot deck. There are more defined parameters for this kind of a deck. Call the above deck an oracle. It's your own definitions and pictures but it doesn't reflect the deck.

IMO, it would be like someone taking a medium sized oracle and just calling it a Lenormand deck. What?? Why? Call it an oracle.

Does anybody know what I'm saying? This is, yes, out of frustration. Mostly because when I see pictures online that say all of this cool stuff and they show the accurate pictures, I buy it. Later finding out that this deck makes no sense.

I know I'm going to have people attacking me for saying some of this stuff, but I simply can't stand people loosely putting the word tarot on a deck of random pictures (cool as it may be) because I hold tarot high and I take it as an insult someone trying to skate these things by that "possess" the name tarot.

Thank you.

tarotreader2007

**PEACE**
 

elvenstar

Interesting question. I don't actually have strong feelings about this, at the moment I approach cards mostly as a user so I'm rather pragmatic. If I can read with it, I don't care if it's a tarot deck or an oracle deck, or a whatever deck. So I guess that's my personal answer. If seen from a student's or researcher's or collector's perspective I'm sure the answer's completely different.

I have another question based on what you said. Even if we say that it's a tarot deck if it follows a specific set of meanings, how about the different traditions? I haven't really studied this so may be wrong, but people talk about e.g. RWS and Marseilles and Thoth -like or -type decks and they all differ in how they approach certain cards. Right? When the Thoth came out and it was so different, was it a tarot? (I assume it was the first, correct me if I'm wrong). Or did it become a tarot when it became a 'tradition'? How about decks out there that don't fit in with anything else and deviate quite a lot but are deep and meaningful and have 78 cards with the usual tarot structure. How do you know what's a card 'supposed to say' as you put it?

I'm not for or against, but I do think you posed an interesting question. :)
 

AJ

This isn't an attack... :)
But to clarify for myself where you take your stand...

Even tho I don't own a TDM deck yet, I expect to one day.
By your general definition, TDM in all their ancient glory would NOT be tarot? Because they don't show a specific general image on most of the cards? Therefore could be said to stand for anything at all?

Or would anything prior to 1909 be the only legit Tarot cards?

I'll be back if I can think of how to phrase this worse ;) I think I over-imbibed on Pizza at lunch.
 

Papageno

tarotreader2007 said:
I know I'm going to have people attacking me for saying some of this stuff, but I simply can't stand people loosely putting the word tarot on a deck of random pictures (cool as it may be) because I hold tarot high and I take it as an insult someone trying to skate these things by that "possess" the name tarot.

Thank you.

tarotreader2007

**PEACE**

this isn't an attack, but perhaps you should define for us your own parameters of what constitutes a "legitimate" tarot design.
It's very difficult to address this issue without clarification.

that having been said, I suspect you're going to run into problems with your own guidleines because there are usually grey areas in any argument that sends the debate into a feedback loop.
 

SunChariot

Well I think a Tarot deck has to have 78 cards (at least some have an extra or two) and Majors and four suits. If a deck does not have that it is definitely not a Tarot to me. That being said, I also hold Tarot in very high regard. It is a deeply spiritual tool to me, a way to contact my higher powers and I have infinite respect for it.

But I don't feel the card meanings have to be standard, or that there is a right meaning for each card. I myself feel that the creator is free to express his vision by changing things where he sees fit. This may be because I don't read with set meanings anyway, as a mainly intutiive reader. I never see the same, or usually even similar meanings in a card. So to me personally, I prefer decks that are creative and not stick to a mold and that does not make them any less Tarot decks to me.

And I don't believe that a deck has to say the "right thing" personally or that there is a "right thing" for it to say. As long as it can impart wisdom to me that is all I demand of it.

After reading some of the answers here, it occurs to me that our feelings on this issue could be related to how we like to use the cards and our readings styles.

For myself, those are my feelings, and still I absolutely revere all my decks, most of which are quite original. I don't think it would be too strong a word to say that my decks are literally "sacred" to me. They are all tools to communicate with the Divine.

Bar
 

jmd

So in a nutshell, there are two related questions:

in the first place, does somebody creating a deck and calling it 'tarot' make it a tarot deck (or, to use an analogy, does someboby distilling plums and calling the drink 'water' make it water)?

in the second, what makes a deck specifically a tarot deck!?
 

Papageno

is the Rock n Roll deck a true tarot

Le Conchiglie Divinatorie by Osvaldo Menegazzi, is that a true tarot
or any of the other Menegazzi decks like the Fumatori

the Circus & Sideshow

the Lovecraft Tarots
 

Sulis

You seem to be assuming that there are set meanings for the cards in a tarot deck... Are you using the RWS system when you say this:
tarotreader2007 said:
For instance, seeing a bunch a people getting tossed on an old boat in the middle of the sea doesn't display the 7 of cups in tarot. ("some people might say so"). Aye.

The TdM doesn't show the same image as the Waite deck does and so the meaning is sometimes not the same as int he Waite deck, yet it is still obviously Tarot.

The meanings of the cards depend on the context of the question, they are fluid and change as language does.

I don't really understand what you're trying to say.
 

Kenny

I feel a tarot needs three things
1: 22 Major Cards
2: 40 Minor Cards
3: 16 Court Cards

As long as they are all based off the same idea, ie the seven of cups means many choices, then that also counts.
 

room

Kenny said:
As long as they are all based off the same idea, ie the seven of cups means many choices, then that also counts.

I'm the opposite, I like it when the 7 of Cups means something other than the canned meaning. Keeps the mind exploring possibilities and associations.

Definitions tend to constrain my mind so I prefer to let them go. I don't think it's an insult to call something tarot that's different, I think it's an example of the author's creativity. That makes it interesting for me.

For the same reason, I wouldn't attack you because you feel this way--that's you and the way you think. Kind of interesting to see how another person thinks.