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finn
24-09-2002, 01:00
I just purchased one of these a few days ago. Does anyone have one of these? Do share your experiences with me, since I still haven't learnt to grasp the fortune-teling too well, especially when the "judgements" are one-worded and therefore too vague. :)

SherryZoned
24-09-2002, 01:04
I dont have them...Could you post a link so I can see them please?

finn
24-09-2002, 01:07
http://www.mystery-games.com/siborcar.html

SherryZoned
24-09-2002, 01:29
Not a bad price...Looks interesting..

Pollux
24-09-2002, 05:03
Hey, I am sorrounded by Sibilla Oracles.
There is not just one, you know, here I have seen at least 6 different ones. Also, they are often used on the telly by would-be psychics and cartomants. Some decks are really cute, while others look so bad... :P

They are generally 40 or 52 cards based decks, they lack Majors, and often are question-focused (for example there is a Love-aimed Sibilla Oracle, I have seen it, I swear! *LOL*).

Redwood, you know, the 40-card ones are associated with Neapolitan Playing Cards. Most of them are structured with a big picture for the meaning, and a small tiny picture of the corresponding Neapolitan ¨playing Card.

You can see many of the Oracles on Alida. And of course I am sure you will find most of them somewhere else too.

I think that, since I cannot get by decks BUT Sibilla Oracles, I should become a sort of Sibilla-Oracle Official Dealer on here. It might be useful for trades... })
(I am serious, let me know guys and gals)

felicityk
15-07-2003, 06:48
I am resurrecting this thread since I have recently become interested in collecting oracle decks other than Tarot, and I would like to learn more about the sibyl/sibilla decks.

Do all sibilla decks follow the same pattern, or is each one different? Or are there a few historical patterns that these decks fall under? For example, I have seen a lot of Italian decks; do they follow a different tradition than French decks?

Felicity

Rusty Neon
15-07-2003, 12:52
The Sibilla Oracle deck published by Lo Scarabeo
http://www.learntarot.com/sidesc.htm
has the same images and the same or substantially the same keywords as the 19th century French cartomancy deck _La Sibylle des Salons_ (photoreproduction deck available from Grimaud publishers).

The LS deck differs from the Grimaud in that the LS's cards are smaller and the French keywords have been replaced by the less authentic quadrilingual LS keywords.

felicityk
16-07-2003, 03:11
In my search I have found many 52-card Sibilla decks and thought I'd list them here in case anyone else is interested.

Sibilla Indovina - Lo Scarabeo
http://www.trigono.com/tarots/TDI037-la-sibilla-indovina.htm

Sibilla della Zingara - Lo Scarabeo
http://www.trigono.com/tarots/TDI035-la-sibilla-della-zingara.htm

Sibilla delle Fortuna - Lo Scarabeo
http://www.trigono.com/tarots/TDI036-la-sibilla-della-fortuna.htm

Sibilla Originale 1890 - Il Meneghello
http://www.trigono.com/tarots/sibilla-originale-1890.htm

Mysteri della Sibilla - Dal Negro
http://www.trigono.com/tarots/TA02TMDS.htm

Oracolo della Sibilla - Dal Negro
http://www.trigono.com/tarots/TA02TAOS.htm

Il Vostro Destino - Masenghini
http://www.trigono.com/tarots/TA04VDMA.htm

La Vera Sibilla - Masenghini
http://www.trigono.com/tarots/TA04VSMA.htm

Sybille des Salons - Grimaud
http://www.trigono.com/tarots/TA03TASS.htm

If anyone has any of these, I'd be interested in knowing how they compare, i.e. if the meanings are the same across the board. RustyNeon has already pointed out the correspondence between the Sybille des Salons and the Lo Scarabeo Sibilla Indovina. The decks that appeal to me most artistically are the two Dal Negro decks and the Masenghini Il Vostro Destino (which I'm not entirely certain is a sibilla deck).

Felicity

Edited to add: Here are a few more that aren't at Trigono. Alida doesn't allow direct links; start from http://www.alidastore.com/indexen.html.

La Magica Sibilla - Dal Negro
Sibilla '800 - Dal Negro
(on page "Tarocchi e Cartomanzie 1")

BoomVoom
17-07-2003, 23:47
hi!
i've been trying to finde out more about the sibyl for some time but nobody ever replyes to my thread.

i have:
la magica sibilla (dal negro)
l'oracolo della sibilla (us games)
sibylle des salons (grimaud)

i have found both from my decks and what i finde on the internet that the italian sibyls have diferent designations of the cards to the french sibyls.

EG: in the sibylle des salons amour is the 6 of hearts.
in the italian decks (la magica sibilla) it is the 4 of hearts.

the sibylle des salons designate the 3 of hearts and dimonds as the male and female consultant. in the italian sibilla, they have added 2 extra cards for a male or female consultant which are seperate from the 52 cards assoceated with the original playing cards.

why this is, i do not know. but i'll tell you one thing, it drives me nuts!

i'm beguinning to realise that the sibyls are not suposed to be too dificult to read. i think you're suposed to read them much like a lenormand deck...

dus any body want to make a study group for the sibyl? i would definitly be interested in finding out what other people know and perhaps looking into posible interpretations of cards, maby even from both french and italian decks.

another thing that is realy strainge and i fogot to mention is, the "oralolo della sibilla" seams to have mixed the designations of the cards of the french and italian sibyls! that drives me even mor nuts! ;)

i'll be watching this thread. and i hope to finde out the opinions and vews of you guys. especialy Pollux who apears to have alot of experience with these decks. :D

BoomVoom

Myrrha
20-07-2003, 10:16
Oh, these are intriguing. Here is one more that I don't think was mentioned yet:
http://www.mondoalternativo.com/cgi-bin/frontcart/frontcart.pl?fc_language=mondoa&command=details&itemcode=TALD
it is called "Le Livre de Destin" published by Grimaud. I like the one card shown but would love to see more pictures!

Myrrha

BoomVoom
21-07-2003, 00:46
Myrrha>
that's a very similar deck. you finde the same cards as on the sibyl but there are only 32 cards.

Myrrha
21-07-2003, 01:42
Originally posted by BoomVoom
Myrrha>
that's a very similar deck. you finde the same cards as on the sibyl but there are only 32 cards.

Oh, I see. Well, I am curious about these decks and the Lenormand decks.... Do they actually work well for readings?

Myrrha

BoomVoom
21-07-2003, 11:57
from what i've seen, the lenormand decks give very clear fortunes. a good fortune teller can give very prescice information about the future.
i believe that the sibyl must be just as good...
just have to finde a book about it!
my main problem is that i can't finde any english or french information on the italian style sibyls which are the ones i want to use.
i'll just keep banging at it till it gives i guess.
either that or els i'll just have to learn italian!:D

BoomVoom
21-07-2003, 12:14
Myrrha>
the lenormands work based in a normal deck of cards but only the 6-K and the aces. so there are only 32 cards. all the cards have a main image on them of an ancor or a dog or a horseman etc.
all the images have asosiations. sometimes their meanings chainge acording to the distance from the signifyer (ace of spades or of hearts).
meanings also chainge acording to what other cards are around.(much like tarot.)
the reading tends to come out more fortune like, kinde of like the kinde of reading you'd expect from a fair.

eg:
"a woman with 2 sons is looking at you with hatred."
or
"you are going to run into a young man at work who could become of great importance."
or
"no madam, i'm sorry i don't see you going into hospital. on the other hand i see your husband going in and staying for some time."

and on and on and on...

Myrrha
22-07-2003, 00:31
Originally posted by BoomVoom

all the images have asosiations. sometimes their meanings chainge acording to the distance from the signifyer (ace of spades or of hearts).
meanings also chainge acording to what other cards are around.(much like tarot.)
the reading tends to come out more fortune like, kinde of like the kinde of reading you'd expect from a fair.


It sounds like it does not have the spiritual depth of tarot but the system sounds very interesting and complex. If you bought a book on the sybilla decks in italian you could type a few pages at a time into the computer and set up a quickie web page, then aim the google translator at it and copy and save the translated page to your computer. Then you should take the web page down for copyright reasons. It does sound tedious but still one way to get a translation.

Myrrha

felicityk
23-11-2003, 14:11
I recently obtained two 52-card Italian decks that I mentioned in my earlier post: Il Vostro Destino and L'Oracolo Della Sibilla. Both are based on the traditional playing card deck with French suits. However, I found that the meanings assigned to the cards are not the same across both sets. Is there a standard set of meanings for Sibilla-type decks, and if so is there somewhere I might find it online?

For the record, Il Vostro Destino appeals to me more. The other deck is illustrated by Tavaglione, and while I find his decks symbolically rich, his artwork generally leaves me cold.

Felicity

felicityk
09-12-2003, 17:46
Since no one has been able to point me toward a standard set of meanings for Sibyl decks, I thought I would post some of the meanings from Il Vostro Destino so that others might compare them to decks they own. I have another Sibyl deck (Misteri della Sibilla) on the way to me and I will be interested to see how those meanings correspond to these.

I'll just do hearts for now, as it involves translating from the Italian (courtesy of Google) and is thus a bit tedious. If there is interest I will do the other suits later.

HEARTS

A: Triumph
2: Engagement
3: Succeeding (Success?)
4: Message
5: Home
6: Love
7: STARE ALL'ERTA*
8: Gift
9: Relief
10: Wedding
J: Male lover
Q: Female lover
K: Husband

* Google translated this as "to be to the erta" and wouldn't go any further. Maybe someone who speaks Italian can help? The illustration is that of someone listening at a door, but I have found the other illustrations are not necessary literal.

Felicity

felicityk
03-01-2004, 03:18
If there is interest I will do the other suits later.

Well, I guess there was no interest!

For what it's worth, I did receive the Misteri della Sibilla deck, and as I feared the meanings are different. I was hoping to find a "definitive" 52-card oracle deck to add to my collection, but it appears that no such thing exists.

Felicity

northsea
18-08-2004, 15:01
felicityk,

Good luck with finding the standard meanings. I just looked at some sibyl decks on the Lo Scarabeo website today.

darwinia
18-08-2004, 21:48
Mysteri della Sibilla - Dal Negro
http://www.trigono.com/tarots/TA02TMDS.htm

This was my favourite. I don't care for the decks that superimposed a miniature rendition of the pips over the artwork. I also liked the watercolour effect here and the way the people are drawn.

It doesn't seem likely that I could find this in Canada but it's very pretty, I would buy it if I could.

It is curious that the meanings change from deck to deck, which makes it rather fun to make up your own story. <g>

WolfyJames
20-08-2004, 07:39
I've been looking for a long time for the Il Vostro Destino by Masenghini on eBay without much success. I don't have a credit card, so I can't buy the deck on Trigono website. Is it as pretty as it appears to be on their website?

felicityk
20-08-2004, 12:23
Originally posted by WolfyJames
I've been looking for a long time for the Il Vostro Destino by Masenghini on eBay without much success. I don't have a credit card, so I can't buy the deck on Trigono website. Is it as pretty as it appears to be on their website?
I like it, but it is not quite as pretty as I thought it would be.

Felicity

BoomVoom
04-09-2004, 05:24
* Google translated this as "to be to the erta" and wouldn't go any further. Maybe someone who speaks Italian can help? The illustration is that of someone listening at a door, but I have found the other illustrations are not necessary literal.





i don't realy speek italian but i know that "stare allerta" means to be allert.

BoomVoom
04-09-2004, 05:41
sorry i havn't been here for so long...
i got tired of waiting... ;)
any way

i've dunn some studying in comparing my diferent sibilla cards, and i came to the comclusion that there are 3 different tydes:

the french sibille
the italien sibille
and a cross between the 2

the "I Misteri della Sibilla" falls into the italian category, like "la magica sibilla" which i have.
no not just because they're in italien! ;P
but the disposition of the meanings is comun to moste of the italen sibilles.
the italien sibille usualy has 2 extra cards to signify the person who's fortune is being told.

the french dus this with with 2 cards from the deck.
the 2 of hearts and the 2 of spades.

darwinia
04-09-2004, 08:08
Originally posted by BoomVoom
the "I Misteri della Sibilla" falls into the italian category, like "la magica sibilla" which i have.
no not just because they're in italien! ;P
but the disposition of the meanings is comun to moste of the italen sibilles.
the italien sibille usualy has 2 extra cards to signify the person who's fortune is being told.

the french dus this with with 2 cards from the deck.
the 2 of hearts and the 2 of spades. [/B]

That's interesting to know. I just got the i Misteri della Sibilla from Felicity this week, and I think it's gorgeous. I have been translating the terms on the card but my dictionaries and online translators got stumped by a few. Some are obviously different modifications of the same verb, but others seem odd.

Here's one I found puzzling: The 9 of Spades says PRIGIONE (jail or prison) then PERDITA DI AMICI (loss of friendship) and finally GRAVIDANZA (which Babble Fish translated as pregnancy???) But I think it really means "grave" as in a grave situation as our English word for grave does come from the Italian.

It's the suffixes on the verbs I'm having problems with. Also I notice that depending on the figure depicted, the word has the masculine or feminine ending like....nemico for a male enemy and nemica for a female on the Queen and Jack of spades.

What do the numbers mean on the cards Boom Voom (I can't read the booklet yet)? There are two numbers on each card above the titling, I'm not sure if they're astrological or something.

BoomVoom
05-09-2004, 23:58
hahaha!
;)

i'm sorry but i think it's something much more simpl than that.
my sibilla dus not have thos numbers but i know what they are. i don't know weather the numbers were found by some isoteric mothod, by chance or just by the artists fancie.
the numbers are for guidence in choosing lotery numbers.
so some one who wants to play the lotery, can go to you and ask:
"what will the winning numbers be?"
you pull 1 or 2 cards and you can give them an answer...

the numbers give a very frivolis image of the sibilla, but i know that the numbers were added after sibilla decks already existed.

if you think of it this way it's easy to understand why this was dun.
the sibilla cards began to become very popular at the turn of the last century.
this means that there were a great number of average simple minded people who were also interested in seeing "the future". but for simple people, what is it that they want?
even me reading the tarot i've had people ask "so can you tell me how to win the lotery?"
of cours you cant finde the winning numbers with a pack of cards, if you do it's usualy up to chance.
but the card publishers of the time werent interested in weather it was true or not, all they realized was that there was a demand for cards which could tell people what lotery numbers to choos.
so they began to put extra numbers on the cards to help choos such numbers.

minde you even today, especialy in latin countries, all the psychic networks or astrology programs, card reading programs, or phone lines still give their clients their lucky numbers.

so there's a long winded answer for a symple question. i hope it wasn't too boring or disapointing.
;)


by the way:
PRIGIONE dus mean jail or prison
PERDITA DI AMICI is usualy a repercution of that. the card can mean the 2 things.

gravidanza means, as you say, a grave situation or a worsening situation

the 2 cards other cards depict a male nemicis and a female nemicis. but that realy depends on your intuition and interpretation sometimes the queen and JACK of spades can just be people or can demonstrate how one card is acting on another card, dipending on what the images are.
in my deck the woman on the queen of spades is discretely pointing a dagar.
if we were to have "baldoria" "nemica" "sponsali", as my nemica pionts to the right one could say that apersons recless and unserious behaiour is affecting theyr relationship.
but if we have forinstance
"nemica" "lei" and then over the head of "lei" we have "legereza"
we could say that a woman is being stabed in the back and she dusn't seem to realize it.

i'de realy like to have a study group on these cards and see othere people's interpretations...

darwinia
06-09-2004, 01:02
Originally posted by BoomVoom
there was a demand for cards which could tell people what lotery numbers to choos.
so they began to put extra numbers on the cards to help choos such numbers.

Really? So it's just a lucky number? Wow.

so there's a long winded answer for a symple question. i hope it wasn't too boring or disapointing.

Well, I am not interested in astrology or numerology so it was fine with me and I always love history. I see by what you are also saying about the masculine and feminine, that it is like court cards in tarot, not necessarily gender specific.

in my deck the woman on the queen of spades is discretely pointing a dagar.

As she should be if she is the Queen of Swords!!

i'de realy like to have a study group on these cards and see othere people's interpretations...

That sounds interesting. I can't seem to find definitions for some of the Italian keywords. For instance, you have used "sponsali" in your reply to me, and it's on the Ace of Clubs in the Misteri della Sibilla deck, but I can't find the definition for that word.

Hilde started doing weekly draws/study for the Petit Jeu Lenormand deck:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30648

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30740

I don't have this deck but I like different systems, if it hadn't been for Felicity I would never have had a clue that these things existed.

Thanks for the information Boom Voom and I peeked at your web site--enjoyed your Poser pictures. I have Poser 3 but never seem to be able to use it much, I have trouble with the lighting. I've done a couple of good ones but I find the program frustrating. Your stuff was great, glad to see someone using the program well.

BoomVoom
06-09-2004, 11:22
omygosh!!!
theat thing is still up?!?!?!?!
*blush*

any way sponsali means the husband and wife.
the card usualy denotes aliences, coupling, mergers. and yes it is the ace of clubs.

darwinia
06-09-2004, 11:58
Originally posted by BoomVoom
[B]omygosh!!!
theat thing is still up?!?!?!?!
*blush*

I bet you get a lot of dates from visitors to your web site. <g>

Thanks for the translation. I am finding these decks fascinating and might have to get another one for comparison purposes. I think I like the Italian ones better than the French.

I'll have to sort through the thread again and go look at some. I'm not really fond of the older illustrations depticted on some of them--something about the colouring is unattractive, but I'll have another look at the various ones.

annik
03-10-2004, 01:46
I started to collect them. The one I like the most (because of the drawing) is La Magica Sibilla.

I must admit I haven't tried them.

I wonder if that kind of card is around since a while?

BoomVoom
04-10-2004, 23:46
that's my favorit to!

it's very turn of the century, delicate drawings, black and brown.

because most of the images are floting in the middle of the card without a backgroung i find it helps to interpret. the cards seam to interact more.

i'm glad sombody els here has it aswell as me.

:)

MatPoint
13-10-2004, 00:44
Hi,

I'm new in this BB, I got here when I was looking for websites and BB about Lenormand Cards.

I'm gathering some information about the greatest french ocultists of the 18th and 19th centuries such as Aleister Crowley, Eliphas LÚvi, Mdlle. Lenormand, the Magician Edmond, the Magician Belline, etc...

I've seen that you are discussing about the italian and french decks.

The original Sybila is the french one, it was created and used by Mlle Lenormand. She has been very popular in France not only because she created the first oracle card in the history but also she predicted many things to Josephine (Napoleon Bonaparte's wife), she even predicted with extraordinary accuracy that Napoleon Bonaparte would become Emperor and many other things.

It is a pitty that most information available on the net is in French and German.

Mlle. Lenormand oracle cards initially were 52 cards but then she used only 36 cards.

The most used deck is the 36 cards one. It is incredible how well this cards work. They are very accurate.

You can find the meanings of the cards and a few spreads on the next website. (It is very basic information about it, but it is a good point to start with). This is in English. http://www.serenapowers.com/lenormand.html

In this website you can find books about how to read Lenormand cards in English, French, German, Italian and Spanish. http://www.brika-verlag.de/

This one have information on how to read lenormand cards and a bulletin board about meanings, combinations, spreads, etc... But this one is in German. http://www.lilith-kartenlegen.de/

I hope this will be helpful.

MatPoint.

WolfyJames
20-11-2004, 08:52
I finally got the Il Vostro Destino sibilla I wanted. I also got the I Misteri della Sibilla and I'm awaiting La Magica Sibilla. Tarot Garden recently got sibillas in stock and I jumped on them while they were there. Thankfully Tarot Garden accepts other ways of payment besides credit cards. :) Il Vostro Destino is as beautiful as I thought it would be and the I Misteri della Sibilla grows on me everyday. I'm still waiting eagerly for La Magica Sibilla to get here but the scans are so beautiful, I don't think I will be disapointed. I'm another board, [link removed by moderator], where oracles in particular are studied (Petit and Grand Jeu LeNormand, cartomancy, Gypsy Witch, Zigeuner Wahrsagekarten), and we decided recently to add sibillas to our studies. We're really excited to study our freshly bought sibillas and to make readings with them. :)

annik
21-11-2004, 01:14
It is the first time I heard about the Il Vostro Destino. I think I will have a little search for picture...

WolfyJames
21-11-2004, 01:56
Il Vostro Destino is not a regular sibilla. Here are links to images:

http://www.trigono.com/tarots/TA04VDMA.htm

http://www.tarotgarden.com/boutique/onlinecatalog.php?view_title=il+Vostro+Destino&pageenter=0

annik
21-11-2004, 09:47
Thank you WofieJames! Nice little cards. Seems familiar, in a way but nice.

sognodinverno
13-12-2004, 23:41
Hi,
can I help you to translate some italian sibilla cards?

I like this decks, they speaks so much!!!!

Post here your request and when I can I answer.

Sognodinverno

felicityk
14-12-2004, 11:59
Il Vostro Destino is not a regular sibilla.
I am curious, what makes it different from a regular sibilla? It is the only 52-card oracle deck I have at present. Is there a "definitive" sibilla deck out there?

Felicity

stella01904
14-12-2004, 12:50
Hi,
can I help you to translate some italian sibilla cards?

I like this decks, they speaks so much!!!!

Sognodinverno
MM ~ Yes! If you're still around, I'll be back with my list very soon. BTW, if anyone is having trouble translating Italian Sibillas, I've found that some of the words (Imeneo, for one) are Sicilian, not standard Italian. BB, Stella

tatsi
14-12-2004, 18:35
Thanks to everyone who provided links regarding Sibilla type decks. I have seen a few of these before, but there are several I haven't and would never have been aware of without the links you provided on this thread.

tatsi

sognodinverno
14-12-2004, 19:59
I am still aroud Stella!!!!

At this time I dont' have so much time to explain you the meaning of the card, I think that you now it. "Imeneo" is arcaic, the word stay for "wedding".

If you need the meaning I must ask you to wait the next week when I have more time.

Bye

Sognodinverno

stella01904
15-12-2004, 03:55
MM ~ Yes, I know that one! I've got a Sibilla Della Zingara and a La Vera Sibilla. I've got all the titles done. The La Vera has little extra keywords on it to give a hint what the cards might mean when reversed or not so well-aspected. I've translated most of those, too, but there are a few I can't get. They are: Volubilita (the "a" has a little accent mark over it), Untuoso, Sventatezza, and Inimita (also with a little mark over the "a"). I also need to verify that Messaggierio is the messenger, and not the message itself ~ though it could be! (Very curious...) Whenever you get time. Thanks! BB, Stella

stella01904
15-12-2004, 03:59
[QUOTE=tatsi]Thanks to everyone who provided links regarding Sibilla type decks. MM ~ If you'd like to see the La Vera in its entirety, some of the Sibilla Della Zingara, and a funny reworked Biedermeier deck with added cards, go to www.itarocchidigabriella.it and click on "menu", then "sibilles". You can view them card by card. BB, Stella

sognodinverno
15-12-2004, 17:49
I tarocchi di Gabriella it's a very fine website, you can found also my beloved " Corti d'amore".

I go out for a few days, when I came back I translate. can you wait for?

Sognodinverno

sognodinverno
15-12-2004, 17:53
Another website is www.lestelledigloria.com here you can find "Sibille Lenormand"

Sognodinverno

stella01904
16-12-2004, 05:53
I go out for a few days, when I came back I translate. can you wait for?
MM ~ Of course! Take your time. And thanks for the link - that's the prettiest Petit Jeu I've ever seen! I'd love to have that one. Do you know if it's currently being published by anyone? Or is this some lucky person's antique deck? BB, Stella

tatsi
16-12-2004, 08:36
In this website you can find books about how to read Lenormand cards in English, French, German, Italian and Spanish. http://www.brika-verlag.de/


Lenomand books in English are nearly impossible to find. I have Titania's Fortune Cards. Britta's compact course book in English interested me. It was the first of three books Britta wrote and it's the most popular.

Does anyone have this book? If so, what do you think of it? Is it worth getting?

MatPoint, I also PM'd you about this :)

tatsi

stella01904
19-12-2004, 01:34
...and Britta's compact course book in English interested me. It was the first of three books Britta wrote and it's the most popular.

Does anyone have this book? If so, what do you think of it? Is it worth getting?

MM ~ I don't have it. The subject came up awhile back at Oraclegrove and the general consensus was that it was too expensive. (About $90.00 US, if I remember correctly) I'm not sure what they mean by "course", the site doesn't say how much access you get to this lady. You might just be getting a book, worth maybe ten or fifteen bucks. You should contact them and look into it further, if you're interested. BB, Stella

Ivy
19-12-2004, 02:18
Hello Everyone,
I'm new to reading playing cards, and extremely new to Sibilla oracle cards, but after seeing the Il Vostro Destino deck, I've got to have it. :-)
Thanks for all the information and the links. :-) So many beautiful decks...ahhh I'm not sure if I'll be content with just one. :-)
BB,
Ivy
Patiently waiting for Tarot Garden to get more in stock. :-)

sognodinverno
21-12-2004, 23:55
Hi Stella,

about the cards you asked:

Messaggero: is the man that bring a message but you can mean also the message, if you look at the cards around you can undestand.

VolubilitÓ: is a situation when a person change his mood, his ideas, his opinion whitout a reason.

IntimitÓ: is a private life between two persons, wife and husband, boy and girl, between two friends.

I don't undestand "untuoso" and "sventatezza", can you write again them? Can you describe the pictures?
If you write well, but I am not sure of this, they mean:

Untuoso: is a grased thing
Sventatezza: is for a flung and hasty person

By by Sognodinverno

stella01904
22-12-2004, 12:55
MM ~ Thank you! Everything seems to fit perfectly. The La Vera Sibilla has the main card titles on the bottom of the card, then keywords in smaller print for when the cards are reversed, or otherwise badly aspected. "Untuoso" is one of these smaller-printed words, on the Domestico card. The other small keywords are "Nemico Bruno". Normally the card is harnmless, the guy is just working for you somehow. But in the bad aspect, he becomes an enemy, and "a greased thing" seems to fit, because he would be "slick" or "oily" about it. He is not like a person in a powerful position who would be more up-front and "in-your-face". "Sventatezza" is on the Leggerezza card. The picture shows a butterfly. In a positive sense it is a card of lightness and beauty, in a more negative grouping it could easily be a "flung and hasty person"! Flightly, flaky...Thank you again, so much, this helps a lot! Hope to return the favor sometime, somehow! BB, Stella

sognodinverno
22-12-2004, 18:04
Ok Stella,

"Domestico" is for a servant so can means a person that work for you, do someting for you, that bring someting to you, or, if reversed or near a bad cards, a dirty thing, no clear transaction, an uneasiness, a little problem.
"Nemico bruno" is for an enemy, maybe whit brown or dark hair.
"Leggerezza" is a light thing, as the butterflay, something that sometime you can't take. I belive that we undestand the same things. ;-))

When you need help..... ask for it.

Sognodinverno

stella01904
23-12-2004, 03:41
I belive that we undestand the same things. ;-))

MM ~ Good! Glad to be on track. And thanks for your generous offer, I will definitely be asking you some questions if I decide to translate the instruction book! But for now I am happy. And much enjoying the deck! BB, Stella

felicityk
27-12-2004, 09:37
Il Vostro Destino is not a regular sibilla.
I asked about this a few pages back, but no one answered. What makes Il Vostro Destino different from a "regular" sibilla, and what is a good example of a "regular" sibilla? Please help me understand!

Felicity

WolfyJames
27-12-2004, 10:47
I asked about this a few pages back, but no one answered. What makes Il Vostro Destino different from a "regular" sibilla, and what is a good example of a "regular" sibilla? Please help me understand!

I'm so sorry about forgetting you. :(

Sibilla Della Zingara is a very old sibilla, more than a century old, probably one of the oldest, along with Sibilla Originale, establishing italian sibillas. Most sibillas have the same cards at the same places as the Sibilla Della Zingara and Sibilla Originale. Both Magica Sibilla and I Misteri della Sibilla do follow this tradition (except for two switched cards for these two decks). Many other sibillas do so as well, like La Vera Sibilla and Sibilla 800. Sibillas have also two extra cards as the male and female querents. All the cards are the same except that the art is different from a deck to another. It's just like tarot, once you know the basic, you can use any deck (or almost). You can see all the cards of the Sibilla Della Zingara HERE (http://www.gambler.ru/sukhty/decks05/d02404/d02404.htm) and see by yourself. There is even an italian website HERE (http://www.itarocchidigabriella.it/sibille.htm) explaining the sibillas, in the Sibilla Della Zingara's and Sibilla Originale's order. Il Vostro Destino is not a regular sibilla. There is no extra cards, plus the cards don't follow Sibilla Della Zingara's and Sibilla Originale's order. While some cards share some similarities, some cards are not in the regular sibillas.

We've started a study group on sibillas on [link removed by moderator] and we compared our decks and all. It's not because Il Vostro Destino is not a regular sibilla, it means people shouldn't use it, not at all. It's just that when we study our cards and share our knowledge, the Il Vostro Destino can't really be studied regularly like my other decks, so that requires from me more work to understand it.

felicityk
29-12-2004, 04:14
Sibilla Della Zingara is a very old sibilla, more than a century old, probably one of the oldest, along with Sibilla Originale, establishing italian sibillas. Most sibillas have the same cards at the same places as the Sibilla Della Zingara and Sibilla Originale. Both Magica Sibilla and I Misteri della Sibilla do follow this tradition (except for two switched cards for these two decks). Many other sibillas do so as well, like La Vera Sibilla and Sibilla 800. Sibillas have also two extra cards as the male and female querents. All the cards are the same except that the art is different from a deck to another. It's just like tarot, once you know the basic, you can use any deck (or almost). You can see all the cards of the Sibilla Della Zingara HERE (http://www.gambler.ru/sukhty/decks05/d02404/d02404.htm) and see by yourself. There is even an italian website HERE (http://www.itarocchidigabriella.it/sibille.htm) explaining the sibillas, in the Sibilla Della Zingara's and Sibilla Originale's order. Il Vostro Destino is not a regular sibilla. There is no extra cards, plus the cards don't follow Sibilla Della Zingara's and Sibilla Originale's order. While some cards share some similarities, some cards are not in the regular sibillas.
Thank you, WolfyJames, that is very helpful information. :)

Felicity

sarah1
06-01-2005, 00:58
Hi,
this is my first post.
Who is interested in La Vera Sibilla? I love those cards and I'm Italian, so I can help you with the translation of meanings.

stella01904
06-01-2005, 03:24
MM ~ The La Vera Sibilla and the Sibilla Della Zingara are my two favorite decks, bar none! I've managed to translate the keywords on the cards (in some cases badly, I'm afraid - I used a computer translating program!) and another member here, Sognodinverno, has helped me with other keywords here in this same thread. (Thanks again!) I have been using the Sibilla Della Zingara for about a year now and only got the La Vera a month or so back. Any and all tidbits of information would be helpful, since I haven't even begun to try to translate the Little White Book. I have been teaching myself and letting the cards speak on their own. And they DO speak, always, that's why I love these decks so much. I've never once sat there and drawn a blank. I don't want to just be self-styled in my methods, though, I'd like to know more traditional methods. And history, if you know any of that! I noticed there are books about La Vera in Italian, I think one of them is by a Madam Sheyla, do you have that? Well, now I've gone and talked for too long - hoping to hear form you soon! Benedizione, Stella

sarah1
07-01-2005, 06:27
Stella, I wouldn't suggest you to translate the little white book. I don't like it.
I've other sources of information.
I'll try to translate and post the meanings of every single card.
But I need time to do it.
Maybe I'll begin tomorrow.

stella01904
07-01-2005, 12:53
MM ~ I'm no big fan of LWB's, either! Any good information is ALWAYS appreciated - especially with this deck! There's nothing in english, but the Italian Sibilla decks have become favorites with the few people I know who have gotten them. It's just a wonderful system. There's no rush, take your time. And thanks! BB, Stella

Stregaverde
18-02-2005, 22:09
Not much to add here, but at least in modern Italian, GRAVIDANZA does indeed mean pregnancy.

Interesting thread. Viva Italia! :D

stella01904
19-02-2005, 01:43
MM ~ I remember you! You told me about the penitents. Do you have a Sibilla? BB, Stella

Stregaverde
19-02-2005, 05:11
No, not yet, but they are all over the place here. I was totally unfamiliar with them until I dug up this thread. They sound pretty interesting, though! I'll probably get one (or two) decks later in the year, but I have a couple of oracle decks coming (my first) and between that and the Tarot, I'm full up for card studying. I'm very interested to hear others' opinions, though! :)

stella01904
19-02-2005, 08:22
MM ~ Yes, I hear they have them in the supermarkets over there! Lucky, lucky, lucky...! BB, Stella PS Let us know when you get them! To know them is to love them - they are very precise and plain-spoken!

Cerulean
14-08-2005, 12:13
Some gypsy or Lenormand cards seem to be similar.

English fortune-telling cards, some have the clouds (passing misfortune, cloudyness) or dog (fidelity) from the sibilla and lenormand cards:

http://www.wopc.co.uk/tarot/divination.html

Giordani Berti classifies the Sibilla and Lenormand together:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.giordanoberti.it/html/articoli_lenormand.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsibilla%2Bcards%2Blenormand%2Bberti%2 6hl%3Den%26hs%3DM75%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official_s%26sa%3DG

If you see the two online lenormand links below, I notice a house and some similar images...in my Italian sibilla cards, I seemed to recognize the 'casa' or 'house', dog for fideility and clouds images...I noticed my Dreams cards from Lo Scarabeo, my Lenormand cards from Lo Scarabeo and Antica Sibilla from Lo Scarabeo had similar meanings for the house, clouds and dog images...(I posted a thread on similar meanings here).

http://www.libralion.com/lenormand.htm

http://www.thechanceryhouse.com/ml2/allcards.php

I may be wrong and mixing things up...I remember seeing Jeu de Destiny cards as well, but they might not be the same...

stella01904
16-08-2005, 02:03
Some gypsy or Lenormand cards seem to be similar.

English fortune-telling cards, some have the clouds (passing misfortune, cloudyness) or dog (fidelity) from the sibilla and lenormand cards:

http://www.wopc.co.uk/tarot/divination.html
MM ~ I couldn't get this link to work, but you are correct, the Dog, House, and others tend to be common to a good many decks.
Giordani Berti classifies the Sibilla and Lenormand together:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.giordanoberti.it/html/articoli_lenormand.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsibilla%2Bcards%2Blenormand%2Bberti%2 6hl%3Den%26hs%3DM75%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official_s%26sa%3DGYes, they are related. Though I don't think anyone has found the "Ur" or "proto" deck. Here is a site where you can compare oracle decks: http://www.intuitive-soul.com/gallery
If you see the two online lenormand links below, I notice a house and some similar images...in my Italian sibilla cards, I seemed to recognize the 'casa' or 'house', dog for fideility and clouds images...I noticed my Dreams cards from Lo Scarabeo, my Lenormand cards from Lo Scarabeo and Antica Sibilla from Lo Scarabeo had similar meanings for the house, clouds and dog images...(I posted a thread on similar meanings here). A dog is a dog is a dog! The variations come from the individual cartomancer. I would tend to interpret the Sibilla Della Zingara dog slightly differently since it is a St. Bernard, a search and rescue dog, rather than the dog outside someones home that is usually pictured. But there is no set rule. There are hardly any books on the subject and none at all in English, but in my correspondence with people in European countries who have taken courses, etc., it all comes down to: free associate! Look at the card and several meanings will come to mind. Then look at the neighboring cards. That should give you a clue which meaning to go with.
http://www.thechanceryhouse.com/ml2/allcards.php Those are head inset Lenormand Petit Jeu! Instead of playing card images they are all people cards. I got a deck on ebay (They're old cigarette cards put out by Carreras) but I haven't worked with them much. They are quite small and beautiful. though.
I may be wrong and mixing things up...I remember seeing Jeu de Destiny cards as well, but they might not be the same...
Jeu Du Destin Antique is on the site I linked you to. It's very different from Lenormand or Sibilla. Some of it is from mythology, like Grand Jeu. Jeu Du Destin is under "Personal Favorite Decks" Click on the deck, then click on the individual cards for a closer look. BB, Stella

MatPoint
09-02-2007, 02:04
Oh, I see. Well, I am curious about these decks and the Lenormand decks.... Do they actually work well for readings?

Myrrha

Yes, they work very well. They are usually extremely accurate.

Aerin
03-04-2008, 00:00
Resurrected to say

Got the Il Meneghello deck today and it is really, really, really beautiful.

(Makes up for the Playing Card Oracles disappointment no end :D)

The booklet IS in Italian, but I can probably cope. I think. The pictures are fairly obvious when you have sen other playing card base decks.

Aerin

Kenrick
05-10-2012, 04:13
It looks like it has been a LONG time since there were posts here, but hopefully someone is still interested in these cards.

I've just picked up both a Sibilla deck and a few Lenormand decks. At least with the Lenormand decks there are a few resources in English to help learn them. Haven't found anything for Sibilla. Anyone know of any?

Also, for those far more experienced with these decks than I... what is the difference in readings with them? Just curious how and why you might like Sibilla over the Lenormand or vice versa.

Kenrick
05-10-2012, 04:15
Meant to also ask if the Sibilla cards are read in pairs like the Lenormand or if they are less sensitive to pairing?

I've read Tarot for years, so this is a bit of a different approach, but one that looks really interesting and practical.