Divination

Is Tarot reading truely divination? What are the limitations or the scope of what you are able to divine with the Tarot? Broad question, but it arises out of my previous question about spreads to ascertain a connection between two parties. What is the most "out there" "pushing the envelope" reading you've ever done? Is Tarot only good for "does he think I'm cute" type questions? what is the limit of its abilities ? How far into the past can you go--(excluding past lives) but actual historical past?

I wonder, is there a room full of geneologists somewhere laying out tarot cards at a family history center ? (hee hee, like to see that!) If they can delve into the past, can they be used to solve crime? Since the cards are heavily laden with people and characters, I can see that they are geared to relationships among people, but to what extent are they limited?

Do you have to wait for them to voluntarily reveal interesting tidbits or can you ask point-blank for the tidbits you wanna know? Hope I'm being clear. What are the limits and boundaries of tarot's usefulness?

heya asphodel

I believe the Tarot has a wide range of potential applications including some of those you have mentioned. Though it is often difficult in occult matters to say where one thing ends and another begins, I am not really sure I would call any of those things divination per se. To me divination isn't so much about getting a concrete answer as it is a way to clarify and understand your present circumstances so you can wisely determine what course of action to take.

I think if I hear "it's whatever you want it to be" one more time I'm gonna scream. If I have to hide the decks, there had better be a good reason. If they are in divination, then I see what the fuss is about. If they are NOT divination, they're over rated.

"Divination" means contact with the divine, you know this, yes?

Do you mean divination as in God (take that as a placeholder word for whatever you consider to be...) telling you what the murderer's address is? Not likely with a tarot pack, though stranger things have happened.

Do you mean divination in the sense of God (again, placeholder) showing you what humanity is capable of being in the best and worst? That's possible, but involves kabbalah.

The people who believe in archetypes have had good success with it in psychological counselling, but I don't believe in archetypes, so I can't vouch from personal experience there.

I bet the family tree thing would work, no matter how you looked at tarot, but given the nature of my own family, I've never been keen to try it.

Given the nature of divinity, it will always be a subjective answer. Unless you had thousands of taroists who were all using the same deck, with the same training over a period of a decade or more, and the same working knowledge of divinity, you're not going to get any statistical answers. And if it's in the realm of divination, statistical answers are pretty hard to come by anyway.

Please don't scream.

I've been struggling with an answer to this question. I do believe it is divination of sorts. It is a tool for me to better understand myself and the things happening in my life. It is more of a guide for me and that is how I use it when reading for others. I think it offers as much as you allow it to. I'm not one that believes in "God" per se but I do believe in a much larger force. I call it the universe. I do believe that something is using the cards to help me see things that I cannot see because I am human. I guess I see the cards as a type of medium that some thing or maybe my unconscious mind uses to communicate with me.

I don't ever hide my cards from anyone and I have no problem with people handling my cards as long as they ask first. But then I am like that in my everyday life too. I don't hide anything, except from myself, I think.

Hope that makes sense and helps you on your quest for an answer. I, however, do not consider tarot to be overrated.

DEFINITION of DIVINATION

Let's start on the same page. There should not be confusion about the term divination. It is not whatever you want it to be.... according to Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language the definition of the word "divination" is thus:

divination- 1. the practice of attempting to foretell future events or discover hidden knowledge by occult or supernatural means. 2. Augury, prophecy 3. perception by intuition: instinctive foresight.

Nothing about communicating with a higher power. That would be "prayer".

The question then, is tarot divination? are you ACTUALLY FORETELLING something, or is it more like psychology, where you look inward. Most especially if you are doing a reading for yourself. You see, this may be the source of some people's frustration with the results they're getting. Maybe they are not clear what it is they are actually attempting to achieve.

Now, in all honesty, I will tell you that I am firm in my beliefs and I do not feel that I have to be a salesman for my beliefs, neither am I a judge of your beliefs. That's not my job (thankfully) so please take my comments in the spirit of robust discussion and not in any way the least bit of hostility from me. I openly admire anyone who can vigorously debate a subject, there is much to be learned from discussion. But the "whatever you want" is invalid because then the meaning becomes simply worth "nothing"

asphodel said:

Nothing about communicating with a higher power. That would be "prayer"

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Hmmm, perhaps prayer is when you're asking this higher power for something to be done/happen in a certain way ' oh please god, don't let them be sick' whereas divination would be when you're seeking information? I suppose whether you think that the answers you get with tarot or other methods of divination come from a higher power or not is a different question.

Also, as with many words, the definition you quote is not the only one and others do mention the divine. Quick example - "divination." The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. Columbia University Press., 2003. Answers.com 22 Mar. 2007. http://www.answers.com/topic/divination

divination, practice of foreseeing future events or obtaining secret knowledge through communication with divine sources and through omens, oracles, signs, and portents. It is based on the belief in revelations offered to humans by the gods and in extrarational forms of knowledge; it attempts to make known those things that neither reason nor science can discover.[...]

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To answer your question, my personal opinion is tarot can be used both for divination, i.e. to know things you otherwise would not, and as a way to know yourself, that is in a more 'psychological' way. I think that is where the 'whatever you want' comes in, because you can do either or both.

Edited to add: As for what you can actually achieve with tarot, I think that has very much to do with your own skill/talent and very little with the tool itself.

@asphodel:

Considering that there's no official consensus on which spiritual mechanics govern the reality we're present in, there is no frame of reference to evaluate any statement against making any debate utterly pointless as it can produce no results.

But sharing experiences and personal views has been known to provide much inspiration and new ideas for a significant amount of people throughout the ages. I'm quite sure you'll find many here with experience in divination with the tarot they'll be happy to share.

I think tarot is what you make it.

Obviously, if you think that the things you read in the cards will come true, you sort of look for them. Whether they happen or not BECAUSE of the cards is different. I'm just saying you look for it more.

EX: You figure you'll find some special guy 'cause the tarot said something to that effect. So, you'll look for him. When you find him, you'll remember that the cards said something to that effect.

If you think it just is a tool to delve into the unconscious mind, then that's all it is to you.

asphodel said:

Is Tarot reading truely divination? What are the limitations or the scope of what you are able to divine with the Tarot? Broad question, but it arises out of my previous question about spreads to ascertain a connection between two parties. What is the most "out there" "pushing the envelope" reading you've ever done? Is Tarot only good for "does he think I'm cute" type questions? what is the limit of its abilities ? How far into the past can you go--(excluding past lives) but actual historical past?

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yes, i say tarot reading truely is divination. I have had some really great readings---seeing pregnancies for a friends daughter, when she did not even know she was pregnant, and swore up & down she was not pregnant. Not only did I see the pregnancy, I told the month she would deliver. That was cool. Another person I read for, I saw a divorce coming up for her & could see problems occurring over custody with two children. Well, she & her husband did just decide to seperate & divorce, though she had not told anyone yet--and neither one of them had yet moved out of their house. There was & still is a bitter custody battle and they have 2 children. I've done some very amazing readings with tarot, it amazes myself even!

I've also had some tarot readings that astound me to this day when I think of them! Really good ones. I've never tried to do any readings to determine my genealogy lines, but I have done readings for contacting deceased relatives and friends for myself and others with again--astounding results.

yes, tarot reading is definately a form of divination.

asphodel said:

I wonder, is there a room full of geneologists somewhere laying out tarot cards at a family history center ? (hee hee, like to see that!) If they can delve into the past, can they be used to solve crime? Since the cards are heavily laden with people and characters, I can see that they are geared to relationships among people, but to what extent are they limited?

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good question! hope someone can give an answer---I'd like to know this too.

asphodel said:

Do you have to wait for them to voluntarily reveal interesting tidbits or can you ask point-blank for the tidbits you wanna know? Hope I'm being clear. What are the limits and boundaries of tarot's usefulness?

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I'd like to know also what the limits & boundaries of tarot's usefulness is. I can say though, the tarot never ceases to amaze me!