Discussing Tarot with skeptics

djdaz

Hi all,

Since I have openly started reading tarot in my house, my friend has started to take an interest but is a severe skeptic. She thinks it is simply random cards and 2 readers looking at the same cards will give a completely different reading. I have tried answering her questions but she doesnt understand what im telling her! I think maybe im making it too complex? She asks things like "What is Tarot?" , "How does it work?" and "What happens when you look at the cards? Do you hear voices?"

Any suggestions on how I can answer these in a more basic way?!
 

Umbrae

Dunno if I'll be much help, but...

True story, this occured in Portland Oregon in June of 2003. I was at a Psychic Fair or whatever you wanna call it. Robin Ator (creator of the Ator and International Icon Tarots) came up with a friend of his that he’d not seen in years, and asked if I’d read for the friend. I said sure.

Robin was present during the reading, and had never seen me read. He sat passively and occasionally smirked.

After the reading, the friend admitted that Robin had read for him, just before they came up to our booth.

I asked him about how the reading was. He commented that it was strange since he was also a skeptic. It seems that Robin and I pulled very different cards. We said very different words. But we delivered the same message.
 

dandelion

I think the most basic way to describe tarot to anyone, is that it is a tool.

Tarot can be used to help divine (see) a better understanding of events, past, present, and future.

Tarot uses symbolism to connect with our own psyche, as through familiar archetypes. Obviously there is a whole rainbow of different tarot decks and symbolic languages - just like there are many different tools for divination.

"What happens when you look at the cards" is a little different for everyone... but I think in general, looking at the cards is a way of focusing thought - just like meditating with a candle - in order to gain clarity or understanding of a particular situation or question.

There's no whippety-pow-puff-of-smoke that makes the whole thing work. I think it's more about using tarot as a tool for connecting with knowledge, or at least pointing yourself in the right direction.

Not sure if that's any help, but good luck all the same!

~dande
 

Logiatrix

..........
 

djdaz

Thanks guys,

I like the idea of using the map analogy. It makes sense to me but whether it will work is another question!

dandelion said:
There's no whippety-pow-puff-of-smoke that makes the whole thing work.
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LOL Wouldnt it be cool if there was though! Although no doubt the government would suddenly pass a law that said tarot reading was a health and safety hazard and should only be attempted by formally qualified people!

Thanks for the ideas

Darren

P.S If anyone else comes up with any more... let me know! Is there anyone out there who's cards ACTUALLY talk to them? lol
 

jmd

There are different kinds of sceptics, and different kinds of conversations one may enter with them about tarot.

Personally, I will generally not waste my time, nor impose my views, on the sceptic that is un-interested.

Of those that are interested, it may be because they may know you in another context, and are genuinely curious about you as a person they may respect, and try to understand what you see in them, and how you consider the thing works.

Others are sceptics that would like to be convinced. Ie, they are not deeply sceptical, but rather do not want to appear foolish to others, and hence wear a sceptic's mask, hoping to meet someone to help them remove the mask they may prefer to (at least at times) not wear.

Then there are sceptics who engage to find a 'fault' in the conversation in order to use it to show how the stupid you really are - totally uninterested in really considering any elements that may in fact be quite 'rational' and reasonable.

Sceptics also come who may genuinely find either its psychological or sociological appeal intriguing, and wish to further understand elements of this, without in any manner taking the step that truly puts at risk or questions their own assumptions. These are often also seekers in their own manner, and have broadened the scope of tarot into psychology, creative solution or problem solving.

'Sceptics' many of us probably also are, in any case, in either limited context or a broader one. We may develop an interest in an aspect of its history, or its uses, or its art, without developing a concomitant interest in relation to a specific type of reading.

Then there are the 'artist' sceptics, who may care not for its reading value in the least, but will contribute their wonderful skills to the framework provided by tarot.

Engaging with sceptics, then, will very much in part depend on the type one encounters, and the context of the discussion.
 

Briar Rose

jmd said:
Personally, I will generally not waste my time, nor impose my views, on the sceptic that is un-interested.
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That's what I think.
 

franniee

you know my sister was a skeptic in the beginning but a skeptic with curiousity and I would read her and it would be dead on.....now she is so funny because she is definitely not quick with compliments - she is a double aquarious - I had no idea she was bragging to everyone about me! And she actually to my face recently, when I was trying to figure out what to charge and such, told me how good I am! HA!

But I don't bother any more trying to convert people - I just do my own thing and let them watch if they want to see but not if they are being rude and disrespectful.
 

Papageno

HeavensVault said:
jmd said:
Personally, I will generally not waste my time, nor impose my views, on the sceptic that is un-interested.

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That's what I think.
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I'm inclined to agree, however, there are times when shutting people off completely is also counter productive, particularly if their real motivation is not to challenge but pose a question as a veiled attempt to broaden their own knowledge. I think many people are simply too embarassed to admit an interest in tarot.

this is basically the approach I take when (rarely) discussing tarot with non-tarot - skeptic types.

"the rich (and well established) tarot tradition (going back several hundred years) is a wonderful vehicle for artistic expression drawing inspiration from a variety of literary, philosophical and historical sources and many of these are quite thought provoking in their own right.
the occult aspect is not the singular defining hallmark of tarot nor is it the premise by which any particular edition should be judged as valid or pertinent."

this is a response to an altogether different question posed on another thread, but I've found that adopting this strategy has been a positive way to diplomatically introduce people to a new perspective and understanding of tarot.

Usually a discussion about the artistic merits and the various sources of inspiration provide people with a point of reference they can relate to and are comfortable with.
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kisou

jmd said:
Then there are sceptics who engage to find a 'fault' in the conversation in order to use it to show how the stupid you really are - totally uninterested in really considering any elements that may in fact be quite 'rational' and reasonable.
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Ah, I had to deal with one of these skeptics a couple weeks ago. One of my friends mocked tarot as just making things up on the spot to fit the situation--- I think, because his girlfriend that does tarot does it... in a very... untraditional way ((??)) I won't go into the "right" and "wrong" way to do tarot, but after every card she draws, she pulls out her book because she doesn't explore the meanings of the card independently, or do any research outside of what's in the book. I wish I could be that lazy XD

Either way, he asked me to pull out a card, which I did, opened up the book and found the meaning, and asked me to tell him what the card meant. I promptly went into why card A meant XXX, YYYY, ZZZZZ--- at which he turned the argument completely around about how it's too general, "isn't specific" to the issue enough, and how in his opinion I could just easily mangle what the cards mean to suit my needs.

After a while I just chose to ignore him; skeptics are good sometimes because they make your practice better. But this was just counterproductive.
 
Deciding what's neighborly Do you read for teenagers?