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Thirteen
19-04-2007, 11:23
Can anyone help me clear my head on the differences (if any) between this aspect in a Cancer as compared to a Virgo? This came about as I was contemplating the Hermit card....

Cancers are homebodies and I know enough Cancers (myself included) who have that introverted quality where being around too many people takes away energy rather than giving it to them. I know that while I don't mind a few invited guests for a few hours, I eventually want my home back. Cancers need their shell, their nest, their place to hide and feel safe.

Yet Virgos are likewise Hermits, hating it when anyone invades their space, let alone touches their things. I know many a Virgo who hates leaving home and, just like Cancer, feels that home is their private sanctuary.

Is there a difference in how these two deal with home and introversion?

dadsnook2000
19-04-2007, 12:30
Home and Introversion

HOME for a Cancer tends to be a nest, a place of comfort and retreat, a place where safety and familiar people/possessions abound.
HOME for a Virgo tends to a repository, a library, a workshop, a place where things are kept that are used.
Both tend to have "clutter" or lots of stuff, but Virgos like lots of little things where Cancers like soft things. Virgos may have a hundred pencils and pens at hand where Cancers have pictures and stuffed animals as examples of clutter.

Cancer people enjoy creature comforts such as comfortable furniture, food and warm clothes. Not to say they don't like gardens, flowers and natural places and environments, but the focus is more on what keeps them comfortable and secure. Protectiveness seems to be part of the typical makeup. One would expect "Colonial" style homes, rustic, lots of warm wood, braided rugs, country living themes, small paned windows, cabinets with glass to show of dishes and collectibles, etc.

Virgo people enjoy comfortable clothes, earth-related things (such as warm wood items like Cancers) but their homes are more of a "resource" area in terms of how they see it. Contrary to being "neat freaks" they can just as likely be clutter-collectors BUT the difference is they know just where things are among the clutter and resent it when other interfere with what is where. Virgos are also very sexual while Cancers see sexuality more as part of their comfort and support network.

Cancers can be moody whereas Virgo's are tempermental. Moody relates to feelings, temperment relates to attitude and expectations. So, I would see the difference being related to Cancer-feelings versus Virgo-preferences. Emotions versus logic.

Now, generalizations can only go so far as there are some 1800 basic factors other than sun-signs that can significantly interact in such a way as to out weigh sun signs. Sun in a sign, in terms of meanings, are based on seasonal and cultural developments passed through generations. Planet's in various patterns and aspects, along with the chart houses they are in, bring energy and dispositions to bear upon the Sun's meanings. So, you have to take Sun-sign astrology with several grains of salt. If you have any questions, do ask and I'll see what pops to mind. Dave

Thirteen
20-04-2007, 08:47
If you have any questions, do ask and I'll see what pops to mind. Dave
This is very helpful, Dave! Thank you for taking the time for such a detailed and thoughtful answer. One last question:

How do you view the difference (if any) in the tendency toward introversion between a Cancer/Virgo?

mystic mal
20-04-2007, 09:05
On a humorous note I am a Cancerian and my sister is a Virgo.My daughter says we are the slob and the snob. I love company to have lots of interesting discussions and laughs and lots of nibbles whilst my sister only has guests to show off her beautiful home with the best china and well bred people (With no problems) whilst I always land up with folk who are laden with em but always have a listening ear and a shoulder to cry on.

Thirteen
20-04-2007, 12:27
On a humorous note I am a Cancerian and my sister is a Virgo.My daughter says we are the slob and the snob. I love company to have lots of interesting discussions and laughs and lots of nibbles whilst my sister only has guests to show off her beautiful home with the best china and well bred people (With no problems) whilst I always land up with folk who are laden with em but always have a listening ear and a shoulder to cry on.
LOL! What a great comparison/contrast.

dadsnook2000
20-04-2007, 14:03
Again, we are talking Sun-sign astrology, a practice which is "iffy" at best. You should know that I am an astrologer who does not use signs in much of my practice. Signs are spatial constructions based on the seasons and the Sun's passage thru the seasons. On a scale of one-to-ten, I view "signs" as fractional at best. That said . . .

The Virgo-biased person operates on a physical and mental plane. Sort of a "hands-on mental-oriented" person. A mechanical engineer might be a typical stereotype of the Virgo mind and hands. Because of their thinking and nature of doing things by on their own, they often become quite knowledgeable about what ever interests them. This puts them on a level above others from their point of view. When others move into their areas of interest and show themselves to be lightweights, the Virgo-biased person tends to pull back. This is true in terms of a "carry-over" effect which often gets applied to many. So, introversion is just a form of mental privacy and avoidance of shallow people.

The Cancer-biased person is more influenced by mood swings, by sensitivity, by how events and issues affect their comfort, home-base, family. Yes, they are more inclusive than the Virgo type would tend to be. Protective is a good word that many like to associates with Cancer people. Are they introverted? Perhaps. Perhaps they tend to be a little shy outside of their inner circle and thereby pull back from heavy socialization with those they don't know.

In both cases, introversion may not always be a precise description of these basic types. Virgo types pull back as would eagles who have to associate with chickens. Its a class thing. Cancer types pull back as if they didn't have gloves to wear when scrubbing waste barrels. They only want to get close to those they know and trust.

Again, its hard to find pure Sun-sign types when you consider the whole chart and its many factors. Dave

miss_nikki
14-05-2007, 23:51
I know I am resurrecting an old thread, but I just had to...

Since I am a homebody Cancer married to a homebody Virgo!

We have gone out 3 times in almost 2 years....

That is, out on the town with a babysitter back at home :)

We only go shopping or leave the house like once a week!

For me, it's more that I love my baby and don't want to be parted, and home is so...comfy. Also, I just find it hard to have fun around people who aren't my dear close friends...unless I'm tipsy hehe.

For him, it's kind of that he jsut doesn't like socializing unless he's garuanteed a great time and since he never thinks he will have as much of a garauntee of fun out as he knows he will at home...here we are!

This was too funny.

Oh, and Dave - he is a mechanic who is also very interested in engineering...

ravenest
15-05-2007, 14:04
Cancers don't mind cleaning up the mess, after all, they made that little environment for the comfort of themselves and others to use.

Virgo's? Well, there aint gonna be any mess is there? Because no one is game enough to make one, and if they do the Virgo will get straight on to it ... and no one will be able to relax .... but the room will look good though ;)

miss_nikki
15-05-2007, 22:22
Cancers don't mind cleaning up the mess, after all, they made that little environment for the comfort of themselves and others to use.

Virgo's? Well, there aint gonna be any mess is there? Because no one is game enough to make one, and if they do the Virgo will get straight on to it ... and no one will be able to relax .... but the room will look good though ;)

Hehehe I am going to show this to my DH and tell him it's in the stars, he better start cleaning up after himself!

I have noticed that there's a tendency for him to want things either messy messy messy or clean clean clean and once he starts straightening something up, he'll be at it for hours until things are catalogued (no exaggeration).

I'll ask him to clean up the DVDs and it ends with him having a complete computer inventory of every DVD we own...but he forgets to put his glass in the sink.

Ah Virgos...gotta love em!

franniee
15-05-2007, 22:53
The Virgo-biased person operates on a physical and mental plane. Sort of a "hands-on mental-oriented" person. A mechanical engineer might be a typical stereotype of the Virgo mind and hands. Because of their thinking and nature of doing things by on their own, they often become quite knowledgeable about what ever interests them. This puts them on a level above others from their point of view. When others move into their areas of interest and show themselves to be lightweights, the Virgo-biased person tends to pull back. This is true in terms of a "carry-over" effect which often gets applied to many. So, introversion is just a form of mental privacy and avoidance of shallow people.

The Cancer-biased person is more influenced by mood swings, by sensitivity, by how events and issues affect their comfort, home-base, family. Yes, they are more inclusive than the Virgo type would tend to be. Protective is a good word that many like to associates with Cancer people. Are they introverted? Perhaps. Perhaps they tend to be a little shy outside of their inner circle and thereby pull back from heavy socialization with those they don't know.

In both cases, introversion may not always be a precise description of these basic types. Virgo types pull back as would eagles who have to associate with chickens. Its a class thing. Cancer types pull back as if they didn't have gloves to wear when scrubbing waste barrels. They only want to get close to those they know and trust.

Again, its hard to find pure Sun-sign types when you consider the whole chart and its many factors. Dave

Hi You guys!

Yes this is how I see it! I am a virgo with taurus rising and my midheaven and saturn and jupiter conjoining it in CAP (trine) - so very much an earth girl.

I would never consider myself a homebody - but my home has to be comfortable and my sanctuary my safe place - we moved a year and a half ago and I am still not comfortable....but I am trying desperately to get it there. And NO I don't like anyone touching my stuff! I try and let it go because I know this is irrational but it is a tough one for me. :)

Introversion to me is absolutely a form of mental privacy! I love interaction with people - I thrive on it. I have no use for shallow people or people who don't use their mind or play the victim when they can empower themselves - I am extremely sensitive - my feelings are always being stepped on and I will always befriend the stray cat - always have and always will - I help those that are unfortunate or unable but when you are able and choose to be the victim etc. - I have a very hard time reconciling it. I wouldn't have ever categorized myself as snobbish but I guess the way Dave is describing it sounds about right. When I need to figure something out it's all me - you can give me advice but it's still all me. I thrive on my mental privacy and when I need recharging it's in my head I go.

Cancers that I have known (and we don't know where their other planets are so this is really unfair as a comparison) have been extremely sensitive and I've known them to be shy more times than not.

But I think it is all about the fact that Virgo's manifest it the earth/mercury way and Cancer's the water/moon way. So while they are emotions and more feeling and intuition - the Virgo's exile is earth and mercury based - so the mind is racing and the body is doing.

dadsnook2000
16-05-2007, 01:43
There are several observations that can be made about astrological signs:
** They are mathematical constructs that are projected onto the stars, the celestial sphere that surrounds the earth. On this basis, they are nothing in themselves.
** They are used as a reference and measuring tool to aid us in locating stars and planets and other "bodies" and points which we both observe in the celestial sphere and place upon our two-dimensional charts.
** This reference circle is seen to start at the Aries Point which is where the Sun crosses into its northern portion of its annual cycle and synchronizes the seasons of earth. These seasons are goverened by the tilt of the Earth's axis relative to its orbital place about the Sun.

From these three statements we might choose to make this statement, "The Signs are seasonal-based relative to the Earth-Sun relationship. From this we can say that the seasons affect our culture, our life environment, our health. The seasonal Sun then become a powerful focus of culturally related meanings.

Since a cycle, which the Earth's path about the Sun and its axis tilt provides us with, is a continuous phenomena we have to reconcile how Signs and their distinct segmentation of meanings and be reconciled with the smooth flow of a cycle! What exactly is a Sign?

A SIGN IS: A broad set of statements and generally accepted meanings which are a cultural distillation of beliefs. Each Sign is a contiguous step in a whole cycle of meaning -- it derives much of its validity of meaningful statements from being part of a "wholeness" of thought.

When we write/read a sentence, a phrase, a page, or a chapter about a Sign (the more that is said the better we relate to it) we gather in an essence of that Sign's meaning. We don't use every word we read, we don't agree or disagree with every word or phrase, but we do relate to selected portions of it and by doing so we accept it. Collectively, we all broadly agree on much of the general meaning of a sign, so we therefore believe that Signs are "true".

Because of the broadness of meanings we can meld the segmented view of a sign with a continuous flow of a cycle -- if we are flexible mentally, or if we use a house system for a chart which places the house-cusps where we need them to be so as to affirm what we believe we see for meanings.

We have other questions to consider relative to Signs. Do they apply just to the Sun? The planets have no seasonal influence in the way the Sun does. So why should we apply Sun-Sign meanings to planets?

And there is another question to consider. Which zodiac is correct? With some 25 degrees of difference between the Tropical-Seasonal zodiac and the Sidereal zodiac which is right? If an astrologer from both systems can tell a client about their life and the situations they are facing, how can be both be right? Which is wrong? Remember, 25 degrees of the Signs that each are using are different from what the other is using. Only 5 degrees of each are in the same Sign-space.

I'd be interested to hear what anyone has to say relative to these questions. Note, I do not use signs as a general rule. I can obviously use them quite well and in a detailed fashion, but I choose not to use them. Yet, my astrology is very detailed, very confident, very accurate. So, given all of this, what are Signs, what are their value, which type of signs are right, why do they work or not work? As astrologers, we all have to be comfortable with these issues. Dave

franniee
16-05-2007, 02:09
I'd be interested to hear what anyone has to say relative to these questions. Note, I do not use signs as a general rule. I can obviously use them quite well and in a detailed fashion, but I choose not to use them. Yet, my astrology is very detailed, very confident, very accurate. So, given all of this, what are Signs, what are their value, which type of signs are right, why do they work or not work? As astrologers, we all have to be comfortable with these issues. Dave

Hi Dave,

Your points are well taken! No Doubt. However don't you have to start somewhere? Don't you have to have a beginning point or an anchor from which to begin?

How do you work your astrological readings without reference to the sun sign and other signs? (this is not a challenge - I truly believe your astrological readings are be dead on - I am just curious and want to learn)

thanks,
Fran

dadsnook2000
16-05-2007, 04:01
The zodiac signs and degrees are absolutely useful as a measuring or reference tool so that everyone can start with the right positions and relationships.

At birth, on has a specific and unique TIME of birth and LOCATION of birth. No body else has that, as a general rule, on that day and year. This gives one a unique set of chart angles, house positions, and planet placement relative to those angles and houses. One can start with that for chart delineation. In fact, that is just what I do.

** I focus first on planets at or near the angles.
** I focus on several pairs of planetary combinations and their phase relationship to each other: Sun and Moon, Saturn and Moon, Jupiter and Mercury, Mars and Venus, Saturn and Jupiter, Saturn and Uranus. These paint a broad picture of one's personality and character, family conditioning, ability to communicate socially, one's sense of poise and comfort in gender and gender relationships, ones sense of social opportunity and rules of conduct, and ones appreciation of social change and its personal impact.
** I focus on aspects, particularly Conjunctions, Oppositions, Squares and 45 and 235 degree aspects. These are action, percipitation, event oriented aspects. Answer this question, "Does ones character define how one will deal with life, -- or does the actions, decisions and happenings in life help to shape one's character?
** I focus on house positions as well as the cycles that the heavier planets are expressing thru those houses. For example, where did Saturn and Jupiter conjunct before you were born? The birth positions of Saturn and Jupiter relative to that starting cycle point will show how you can best operate within society.

I do use a lot of other stuff depending upon what I'm looking for or what the chart tells me. I use various cyclic charts such as Solar Returns, I use mid-point and equal arc theory -- many of these methods are beyond the interest level of many of those who follow this forum, so I don't cover them. Does this answer your question? Dave

franniee
16-05-2007, 08:08
OH then I misunderstood your initial post - i thought you said you didn't look at the signs of the houses and such. UGH - nevermind! I am sorry!

I also thought that maybe you were speaking of progressions and such. You were saying that you didn't put much stock in horoscope type readings. I get it!

So sorry!! :)

dadsnook2000
16-05-2007, 09:13
Sun signs appear to have a basis of validity. How much of a stretch is it to apply a solar declination cycle to a planet that has its own declination cycle? Only if we relate the planet to the Sun in an aspect interpretation might the Sun's declination (another way of seeing the seasonal effect) tinge the planet's meaning. At least that is a thought. Is it valid? Who knows.

All I'm saying, really, is that none of us like or will use all the methods that can be used as part of our astrological practice. What one can't use, another finds to be a perfect fit. The chart is just an imperfect model of us. How it works, why it works is a mystery. We each have to find our path and that takes time.

But, if you decide to adopt a particular practice, then you should really fully understand it and insist that it always work -- allowing for our own failings here and there. Dave.

FantasyWorld
16-05-2007, 09:37
Home and Introversion

HOME for a Cancer tends to be a nest, a place of comfort and retreat, a place where safety and familiar people/possessions abound.
HOME for a Virgo tends to a repository, a library, a workshop, a place where things are kept that are used.
Both tend to have "clutter" or lots of stuff, but Virgos like lots of little things where Cancers like soft things. Virgos may have a hundred pencils and pens at hand where Cancers have pictures and stuffed animals as examples of clutter.

Cancer people enjoy creature comforts such as comfortable furniture, food and warm clothes. Not to say they don't like gardens, flowers and natural places and environments, but the focus is more on what keeps them comfortable and secure. Protectiveness seems to be part of the typical makeup. One would expect "Colonial" style homes, rustic, lots of warm wood, braided rugs, country living themes, small paned windows, cabinets with glass to show of dishes and collectibles, etc.

Virgo people enjoy comfortable clothes, earth-related things (such as warm wood items like Cancers) but their homes are more of a "resource" area in terms of how they see it. Contrary to being "neat freaks" they can just as likely be clutter-collectors BUT the difference is they know just where things are among the clutter and resent it when other interfere with what is where. Virgos are also very sexual while Cancers see sexuality more as part of their comfort and support network.

Cancers can be moody whereas Virgo's are tempermental. Moody relates to feelings, temperment relates to attitude and expectations. So, I would see the difference being related to Cancer-feelings versus Virgo-preferences. Emotions versus logic.

Now, generalizations can only go so far as there are some 1800 basic factors other than sun-signs that can significantly interact in such a way as to out weigh sun signs. Sun in a sign, in terms of meanings, are based on seasonal and cultural developments passed through generations. Planet's in various patterns and aspects, along with the chart houses they are in, bring energy and dispositions to bear upon the Sun's meanings. So, you have to take Sun-sign astrology with several grains of salt. If you have any questions, do ask and I'll see what pops to mind. Dave



Wow! Great info....

Nail on the head.

DS #1 is Virgo Sun with Cancer Moon
DS #2 is Cancer Sun with Virgo Moon

EGAD! Polar opposites

franniee
16-05-2007, 09:44
absolutely! thank you!

I have a "moderate" knowledge of astrology. I know my chart and how each aspect interacts - houses, signs, rulers etc, but I get lost with the 3 dimensionality of the chart. :) Something I need to work on.

Fran